Changes to Empire Fighters

Suggestions Balance
1

So, this seems to be a general-consensus thing, but I searched and didn’t find a post on it. I apologize if I’m restating a topic that’s been started already, but:

 

Empire Fighters need to be brought in line with their weight class.

 

As was pointed out on the Federation Frigate thread, a T2 Empire Fighter (the Phobos Aura, for example) has more base HP and better resists than a Federation Alligator Mk. II, a Frigate-class ship. Both of these ships unlock at Reputation rank 5, and the Phobos Aura is also faster, more agile, and harder to hit. But this problem was compounded for me when I was told that a Phobos Aura using its Overdrive special can actually out-damage a same-class Frigate as well. The Empire Fighters at the T2 level (I don’t typically fight at other tiers, so I don’t know if the problem is as severe there) can and do face-tank Frigates.

 

I’m not familiar enough with the game yet to actually suggest a numeric change, but it seems that decreasing the Fighter’s shield capacity and resistance would be in line with Empire’s armor-tanking philosophy, I regularly fly a Frigate, and it’s gotten to where these ships are unkillable; I come from behind, bring all guns to bear, firing EM damage, and the target stops, turns around, pops an Overdrive, melts my shield and hull, and flies away with 50% shield remaining.

 

I’m willing to start flying Empire ships, but I really like my Federation and I’d be a lot happier if everyone in the game didn’t eventually fly the Deimos 2 (the best logical choice for its reward bonus).

2

The Deimos 2 is better… or worse, depending on whether or not you are piloting it, or being filled with holes by it. 

 

Both it and the Phobos also receive command bonuses I believe - one gets +30% to command modules, the other range… maybe. There’s been grumblings about them on this and the failheap forums.

 

As to nerfing them - I would rather see the other fighters receive buffs to bring them into line. 

3

…bring them in line? Wat.

 

You might as well just get rid of the frigate weight class entirely if you want to buff ALL the fighters that much.

4

And the frigates. Invite everyone to the buff party!

5

while in overdrive the ship gets extremly hard to handle…and the large amount of base hp is related to the philosophy of the empire: ultra durable, slow ships

 

the fed and jericho ships could use a LITTLE bit more hull and their specials should be reworked

 

http://forum.gaijinent.com/index.php?/topic/17514-special-abilities/

6

Incendiary, being difficult to fly the ship is moot when you can just sit there unmoving, not even making an attempt to dodge, while 3-4 enemy ships primary you, and get a kill while acting like a turret and STILL make an escape around an asteroid to survive.

 

It’s not just “Oh the Deimos is really difficult to kill” It’s literally “Oh, hold on, let me push my I WIN button here”. In any 1vs1 situation, there is not a single other ship in T2 that can beat a Deimos 2, except another Deimos 2. Overdrive turns it into a fighter that out-tanks and out-damages frigates.

 

Even doing something like stunlocking the thing is ineffective because of the sheer amount of damage you need to do to kill it. That’s a lot of time spent not doing the objective or not killing someone else.

 

I have had to memorize the names of players on the enemy team flying the Deimos 2 before the game begins so that I can focus fire on other enemy targets, because I know any individual effort towards killing a Deimos 2 is wasted. You do literally need multiple people to kill one effectively.

7

I as well can upvote that deimos is somewhat ridiculously durable. I can shoot it with intterceptor for who knows how long. That ship literally dont care even if i hit every one of my hits. My weapons just gona overheat, cool down, overheat again and so on, but that ship just dont die. And in most cases empire ships will most likely to put hull kinetic resistance module.

8

The only moment my deimos outperforms my fox-m or machete-ae is every 60 seconds

 

My fox-m with cloak and bonus to offence can assasinate every other fighter easily and dispatch almost any target, i bring my beloved shotgun with it

 

My Machete just grins about any try to be shot, flick on shield booster when someone starts shooting and just calmly hammer them down, long range railguns on it

 

My deimos is a command ship, 3 command modules and just enough reserves to have them active, if someone finds me or doesnt get killed by the group im sticking to i switch on the “LETS DANCE” button and outmaneuver everything with my t2-2 fed implant that lets me fly it like a good old descent pyro

 

The only thing truly bothering me is that my jericho ship is NOT a t2-3 ship, and therefore not getting the bonus to weapons or having the shields and hull other have at this level

 

This is the same problem i see with every fighter on t3, all except the wolf end at t3-2

9

Empire fighters are really good when in overdrive. You just have to hit them when they are not. But a skilled empire fighter pilot will not let you !

On both side, teamplay is mandatory. The Deimos without overdrive has no speed and low resist. He needs teammates. The Deimos in overdrive is a war machine, that can attack and defeat any other fighter face to face. Against two it’s still feasible. Against more it’s more difficult.

So I say this ship renders teamplay mandatory. You need to keep it like that.

10

Requiring multiple ships to kill a frigate is fine for teamplay, in my opinion, they’re tough ships. But the Deimos is ridiculously small for having the amount of health it has, and it reaches speeds that comparably-armored ships can’t match. In terms of technological superiority, the Deimos wins every time. It’s a miniature frigate, and it needs to act more like a fighter.

11

I repeat : you are describing overdrived Deimos 2. 16 seconds every minute. You have 44 seconds every minute to kill it.

12

I’m comparing the Alligator-M to the Deimos-2 in tank stats alone. Resistance are in Kinetic/EM/Thermal:

 

Deimos 2 (fighter):

7130 hull @ -5/55/25 resist

4030 shield @ 40/-20/10 resist

Speed: 160 m/s, 280 m/s w/ Afterburner.

Roll/Yaw/Pitch: 66/72/72 deg/sec

 

Alligator-M (frigate):

6945 hull @ -15/45/15 resist

7480 shield @ 30/-30/0 resist

Speed: 139.2 m/s, 243.6 m/s w/ Afterburner

Roll/Yaw/Pitch: 36/30/30 deg/sec

 

As you can see from the stats, the frigate does indeed have higher HP in shields but also starts with resists that are 10 points lower across the board. And, as a result of the much-discussed Legion Overdrive, the fighter’s hull resistances can jump to 45/105/75 before any implants or modules. Add the tier 1 Jericho implant for +30 hull resist and you get 75/135/105. Add a hull mod, perhaps Composite Armor, you get 87/147/117. Add reinforced hull, Mk 1 let’s say, and you get 122/147/117 and still have a passive slot and all three active slots free. Overdrive isn’t designed to make the ship invulnerable for 17 seconds, if it was it’d be more like Tachyon Cocoon and also prevent it from firing.

 

 

Even without Overdrive, this ship is capable of using just one of its passive slots and its hull mod slot to increase its hull resist to 72/97/67, so even putting aside the special and assuming it’s balanced, those are still some insanely high resistances without really giving up anything in terms of damage.

 

Also, does anyone know why a ship that’s apparently designed with an armor tank in mind has shield resists 10 points higher than a frigate?

 

–edit–

 

After looking further, it looks like all fighters get the +10 bonus to all resists, and while that seems a little odd, it’s not a feature unique to the Deimos.

13

If he no kill you in 16 sec

14

I fly both Alligator-M and Deimos 2.

Any frigate with engine suppressor, pulsar, mines and a weapon that is not a slow barrel one can hold a Deimos 2 with no problem.

Easily.

15

During Legion overdrive (which lasts over double as long as a pulsar) the Deimos’s thermal resist is (at lowest) 117, and that’s if the pilot isn’t tanking against thermal, the most common damage type in the game. I have a hard time believing that a ship with an armor thermal resist of 117 could die to any thermal weapon, including a pulsar. I think you might be talking about the Propulsion Inhibitor, as the Engine Suppressor is a fighter-class module. They don’t STOP overdrive, and that’s the problem. I can stop you dead and you can still tank every bit of my damage, cruise out of range at sub-burn, turn around, and happily melt my face with minimal damage.

16

The debuffing abilities of a interceptor can easily take the thing out. I liked using legion fighters myself but, I can be stopped pretty easily, not destroyed at times, but stopped.

17

The debuffing abilities of a interceptor can easily take the thing out. I liked using legion fighters myself but, I can be stopped pretty easily, not destroyed at times, but stopped.

Quoted for truth! frikking flies! :smiley:

18

I fly both Alligator-M and Deimos 2.

Any frigate with engine suppressor, pulsar, mines and a weapon that is not a slow barrel one can hold a Deimos 2 with no problem.

Easily.

I stick to that statement. We can test when you want.

19

another way to prevent a instant death by a imperial overdrive is the most basic, most effective method: movement…

 

i fought various ships (even some deimos 2 with and without overdrive) in my phobos aura (overdrive and not overdrive)

 

one tactic is to circle around the enemy ship and try to evade the enemy fire…

 

i must admit: the deimos 2 is a serious killer…even without overdrive it outperforms many other ships in hp and firepower…

but this ship is slow and stubborn when not in overdrive…so you can outrun it and do some good old hit’n’run

 

everything depends on how good you can handle your ship, how you attack and how your opponent moves…

20

another way to prevent a instant death by a imperial overdrive is the most basic, most effective method: movement…

 I must point out that as a frigate pilot, movement is not one of my strong suits. It is usually something I try, though, and it vastly increases survivability. I’m not trying to say that they’re unbeatable ships, I’m saying that unlike on other races’ fighters, the Legion Overdrive special basically makes the ship invincible for 17 seconds, during which it can still fire. No other special comes close to that kind of firepower; The Federation cloak makes the ship hard to hit but breaks upon offensive action, the Jericho fighter can raise its shield resist, but Legion overdrive raises both resistance to damage AND damage output. Most other specials make a pilot choose offense or defense (or speed, in the case of microwarp) but Legion Overdrive gives boosts to all three.