Change the direction of your monetisation policy

Suggestions Levelling and Economy
#1

I’m currently uploading a video on this very subject, but I thought for clarity it would be best to post my grievances here as well.

 

Star Conflict is officially a Pay to Win game now, because for all intents and purposes the ordinary player cannot obtain Destroyers or the new Premiums. Hell, even Secret Project ships may be beyond their reach! Given that these ships possess abilities above and beyond what other free ships possess, this is clearly P2W design being employed.

 

The scope of how anti-consumer this game has become is not clear until you actually look at the new Premiums and discover the new bundle packs. Yes, there are bundles that give you tokens toward building the ship. Yes, in case you haven’t already guessed, it costs more to build the ship with bundles than if you just flat out buy it. Significantly more.

 

Here are the steps I feel that are the absolute bare minimum required to remove the game’s Pay to Win aspects and make it a fair game once more. After that, I will offer suggestions on how to give a fair and reasonable sense of progression to players.

 

ESSENTIAL CHANGES:

Ship tokens for the new Premiums must be GUARANTEED REWARDS for victory in the required ships.

 

Neodium / Beryllium must be GUARANTEED REWARDS for victory in the required ships.

 

Monocrystal acquisition rate must be increased to match.

 

 

Why is this required? Because without these changes the new “free premiums” and “free destroyers” are not free at all - they require thousands of games played to obtain them. It is beyond unreasonable to expect ordinary players to do this when they can hit Rank 15 in a few hundred matches. We are talking years, potentially decades of play time to acquire these ships, and given the average retention rate of players this is basically saying “you can never have these ships”.

 

Free to play acquisition should take an ordinary player months, not years.

 

RECOMMENDED CHANGES:

Monetisation of the ship components should revolve around 100% certainty purchases. Players should know at all times EXACTLY how much they need to spend to get what they want.

 

For the new Premiums, players should be able to purchase bundles of ship parts. These should be sold at 270GS for 10, thus giving a slight discount to people who simply buy the ships outright, but otherwise giving an option to achieve greater savings in exchange for flight time.

 

Similar monetisation strategies should be employed for Destroyers - the total cost of Neodium / Berylliuum and Monocrystals required to build a Destroyer should not exceed more than approximately £40 of Gold Standards. Ideally, it should be closer to £10-20 worth of GS.

 

Unlocking mandatory components (Premium Blueprints and Destroyer ores) should be possible by ALL ships in the tier. Ideally, there should be no synergy requirements either.

#2

yup. Nobody likes random. Random will kill the game. I have three maxed R13’s and I still haven’t found a single Brokk piece. That paired with the awful containers that may or may not give you loot is insane.

#3

 

Why is this required? Because without these changes the new “free premiums” and “free destroyers” are not free at all - they require thousands of games played to obtain them. 

 If this is on what your suggestion is based on, then I can tell that it’s completely incorrect. I don’t know how you made those counts, but pretty sure, that it’s not the right way.

#4

 If this is on what your suggestion is based on, then I can tell that it’s completely incorrect. I don’t know how you made those counts, but pretty sure, that it’s not the right way.

Basic mathematics.

 

number of games (n) = total drops required (t) / odds of winning (w)  / odds of loot drop giving a ship component ©.

 

So if we give some overly generous variables… say, 100% win rate, 100% chance of a single drop, then n = 200 / 1 / 1 = 200 games.

 

But realistically, your win rate is going to be closer to 50% in the long run. So n = 400 games. Based on some estimates by other players it seems 25% is a generous estimate of the real drop odds, so that’s 1,600 games.

 

You won’t tell me how many games the average person plays, so I’m going to assume they just get their 2x win bonuses and leave. 2 victories per day = 800 days = 2.19 years.

 

Care to correct my maths anywhere?

edit: you insist “average players” can get a Brokk in 2-3 months. So if the above is correct that would be… 50 wins per day for 96 days. Assuming 100% drop rate (which it isn’t) that’s still 12.5 wins per day for 96 days straight. I somehow doubt that’s what the average player does.

#5

Tbh I’m lucky if I get 5-6 PvP wins/day bc I’m always queued up against someone like ninja or NASA and my team is literally 90% scrubs.

Regardless, PvE is the way to go for parts. Almost guaranteed wins, and if you take a squad of friends you can grind them relatively quickly.

But I do agree that the part costs are insane relative to the drop rate.

#6

Ship tokens for the new Premiums must be GUARANTEED REWARDS for victory in the required ships.

 

Why? For example, ship costs 1000 parts, you gain 1 part for 10 wins in PvP. Is it better?

 

Star Conflict is officially a Pay to Win game now

 

We’ve heard this since the release. 

 

We: hey guys, now you can get premium ships for free! 

You: it’s P2W now!

Ok

#7

As always, you’re bending the truth to your liking and you refuse to see real issues behind your changes.

New Store system is even worse now! Give us guaranteed drops, not possible random drops.

 

Everything in the update 1.3.3 was still relatively good and stable and F2P. 1.3.4 broke it and now 1.3.5 made it worse. It’s the worst now actually!

Congratulations on achieving that! Numbers are dropping, people are leaving…

And it’s not only about those Premium ships that you can get for free, it’s the amount of grind or parts that you need to get, before you can assemble one. It’s 3-4 times cheaper to just buy the ship right away, because buying ship parts is a rip-off, if you compare how much GS you spent. Amount of grind is ridiculous, even if it’s free. Such ships, each one of them should be obtainable in 3 months top!

Now you need like almost 200 days or so, for one!

So, you’re admitting one thing with your random lottery looting system.

I may gain 1 premium ship part with rank 13s’ every 10 matches on average. I need 600 such parts. How long will I have to grind?  6000 matches to get 1 rank 13 Brokk.

If you would fix those issues with economy, the game would be fine. But since you won’t, there is nothing else I can do to help you. Good day!

#8

If my figures are wrong, feel free to provide accurate ones.

#9

Why? For example, ship costs 1000 parts, you gain 1 part for 10 wins in PvP. Is it better?

 

We’ve heard this since the release. 

 

We: hey guys, now you can get premium ships for free! 

You: it’s P2W now!

Ok

They say its P2W most probably due to the fact that they are able to be bought to skip the horrendous grind,i dont really like to waste synergy on maxed ships since i wont convert it any time sooner,i can live without extra visual effects and slightly broken modules,and 1 part for 10 wins?!WTF?!I dont even play as many PvP games daily due to the fact im not patient enough,T4 waiting time is killing my mood to play the game so im left to either play PvE that can work out or AIs that are annoying with their frickin cruise missiles!!,Im just going to keep waiting for the R14 destroyers and the OS update,if not even those will be enough,then i might just consider quitting the game,FOREVER,yeah,lets just hope for the best…

#10

 Numbers are dropping

 

not truth

 

Now you need like almost 200 days or so, for one!

 

 far from truth

 

 

there is nothing else I can do to help you

 

at least stop spreading false information, i’ve warned you many times about this

#11

Okay, let’s clear one thing up right here and now. The “truth” of either party’s numbers is invalid because of how much the player base varies. Some people get to play only a few hours a day and may or may not spend it in this game. Some players may only be able to play for a bit on certain days. Some players get to spend all of their time playing this game. The “truth” is so wrong that it is invalidated by the numbers. The only “truth” of the situation is that you developers are turning the game in to one that is nearly impossible to have fun playing unless you pay. Sit down, shut up, and fix it. The community has been telling you these things since day one yet you refuse to listen. This is not our problem, it is yours. Because the worse that this problem gets, the less players you will find are staying.

And technically you CAN get everything in the game for free…

…if you spend 24 hours per day and 7 days per week grinding for about 5 years.

I’ve tried my best to remain as nice as possible when it comes to y’all but you’re making it really hard.

#12

http://steamcharts.com/app/212070

#13

Lol look at that bump at the beginning. Like. Whaaaaaaa.

#14

As always, you’re bending the truth to your liking and you refuse to see real issues behind your changes.

New Store system is even worse now! Give us guaranteed drops, not possible random drops.

Everything in the update 1.3.3 was still relatively good and stable and F2P. 1.3.4 broke it and now 1.3.5 made it worse. It’s the worst now actually!

Congratulations on achieving that! Numbers are dropping, people are leaving…

And it’s not only about those Premium ships that you can get for free, it’s the amount of grind or parts that you need to get, before you can assemble one. It’s 3-4 times cheaper to just buy the ship right away, because buying ship parts is a rip-off, if you compare how much GS you spent. Amount of grind is ridiculous, even if it’s free. Such ships, each one of them should be obtainable in 3 months top!

Now you need like almost 200 days or so, for one!

So, you’re admitting one thing with your random lottery looting system.

I may gain 1 premium ship part with rank 13s’ every 10 matches on average. I need 600 such parts. How long will I have to grind? 6000 matches to get 1 rank 13 Brokk.

If you would fix those issues with economy, the game would be fine. But since you won’t, there is nothing else I can do to help you. Good day!

Can you explain what you mean with ‘New Store system is even worse now! Give us guaranteed drops, not possible random drops.’? I think you refer to the bundles bought with GS.

For me the only meh part is ‘up to x items’. But the rest is okay - you see what you get and the quantity of it. The only hidden part is the distribution of the shown items.

ONE BIG NOTICE: P2W is meant as an ADVANTAGE ONLY GAINED THROUGH PAYING. Not what you miss-define with advancing FASTER. Big difference!

Out of that issue: While P2A is not bad at all, but at a certain threshold it get annoying as your progress is slowed down or in extreme cases non-existent as so many ‘walls’ are in your way that you need to overcome to ‘progress’ further. Don’t forget this part about P2A as well!

#15

he meant that previously you needed 3 ore items to craft one beryllium. Now you need 10 of them, and rewards in single containers didn’t change. So i.e if before you needed 3 containers per 1 berry, now you need 10 (that’s an example). 

#16

The problem started with 1.3.4 . The increase in ore requirement for the Destroyers materials was a very bad move. I understand that you don’t want to give these end game ships like candies, but you also have to understand that the amount of grind for these ship right now is just too much.

 

Some simple math:
 

For 1 r11 Destroyer internal structure you need 10 Neodium Plates and 16 Beryllium Rods if I’m not wrong.

 

You need 2 of them for a r11 destroyer

 

With a 100% win rate in PvE (which isn’t that impossible) and 100% drop rate you need 100 r7-9 wins and 320 r10-12 wins. In total, we have 420 wins. That’s 42 days of constant grind with 10 wins/day. It doesn’t sound that bad, but trust me, after farming for my 27 stingray pieces I went through Fire Support so many times that now the orange color makes me feel bad… And I’m not even 1/10 of the way to the stingray. But I already said in other posts that the new premium ship grind is ok to me. 

 

The problem is with destroyers: these ships are insanely powerful, and in PvP not having them puts you in a disadvantage position.

 

Trust me, people won’t pay to make the grind less painful. 

#17

Okay, let’s clear one thing up right here and now. The “truth” of either party’s numbers is invalid because of how much the player base varies. Some people get to play only a few hours a day and may or may not spend it in this game. Some players may only be able to play for a bit on certain days. Some players get to spend all of their time playing this game. The “truth” is so wrong that it is invalidated by the numbers. The only “truth” of the situation is that you developers are turning the game in to one that is nearly impossible to have fun playing unless you pay. Sit down, shut up, and fix it. The community has been telling you these things since day one yet you refuse to listen. This is not our problem, it is yours. Because the worse that this problem gets, the less players you will find are staying.

And technically you CAN get everything in the game for free…

…if you spend 24 hours per day and 7 days per week grinding for about 5 years.

I’ve tried my best to remain as nice as possible when it comes to y’all but you’re making it really hard.

^^^^^^^^

really. I feel exactly the same way. Just excuses and no action. I should almost share my pms so that ppl can see the other excuses that have been made. Everything said here is completely reasonable. I find it just hilarious that every one of these legit stats and facts are constantly being given excuses for and being called incorrect information. Srsly. Lol.

It also quite frankly pisses me off that you banned kormorac or whatever his name is. Yur like freakin Joseph Stalin of game devs. You just gonna ban everyone that doesn’t like how you make the game?

Same with the chat bans. I’ve had to stop using global chat in game because of mod corruption. I was literally getting banned everyday, even if I said like one or two things in chat.

*sigh*. Again, you’re making excuses for some VERY VALID arguments, and your makin yourself look bad. Real bad. It’s like you don’t even read half the posts. I’m just being real here.

Anyways I’ve given up any hope of ever seeing this corrected, and so is most of the playerbase. Again, yur not the first company to make decisions like this. And I don’t think I’ve ever seen a company make decisions like this and live to tell the story. Just saying.

#18

It also quite frankly pisses me off that you banned kormorac or whatever his name is. Yur like freakin Joseph Stalin of game devs. You just gonna ban everyone that doesn’t like how you make the game?

 

False information about the game. Forum rules are pretty clear about it https://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/18970-forum-rules/

 

 

 and so is most of the playerbase. 

You’re speaking for yourself in a first place here. And we respect that. Most of the player base are just playing the game.

#19

False information about the game. Forum rules are pretty clear about it https://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/18970-forum-rules/

 

 

You’re speaking for yourself in a first place here. And we respect that. Most of the player base are just playing the game.

He really isn’t. The idea that the Dev team doesn’t listen, or care, has been around longer than you have. I can remember a time when the team simply didn’t bother to give us patch notes!

The number of players confirming loot patterns pretty much makes it pretty clear to us that you aren’t telling us something. Now, you can continue to deny it and perpetuate the bad PR; you can admit it and then we can all have an informed discussion about how people feel about the mechanic; or you can make a note that players are getting a totally different experience to the one described in your design docs, and assign someone to go do some bug fixing.

Most people here would be happy with two of those. As it stands, I’m not opposed to the idea of a faster drop rate for the first x wins. I think it’s a good way to compromise between the people who only play a few matches a day (if that) and the people who will no-life the game and play dozens of matches a day. But we can’t give proper feedback on something if you and the players disagree on how the sodding game mechanics work!

#20

There is a logical differene in a limit and drop off, so as much as you wanna look cool Jasan, Fake is correct - there is no limit.

Data from statues thread confirm that there is no limit at 7 or w/e arbitrarily number you wanna use.