Removing minefields from frigates except for long range was a horrible decision.
Minefields were not the reason why frigate balls happened, and the removal of them from Engineer frigates has made them increasingly difficult to defend.
Frigate balls happen because they counter interceptor packs and are strong ships for holding ground. Since many game modes revolve around holding specific areas of space, frigates are more likely to be used.
The hand-holding that goes on with pilots in lower tiers against underpowered frigates creates players with poor flying skills. There is no reason to continue allowing that behavior in higher tiers. If they cannot learn to fly a few hundred further back, that is their problem and they deserve to lose their ships. If they can’t work together or use ships of different types together, then they deserve to lose their ships.
The Engineer should not be punished for it. There is very little that one can do to defend themselves now. I just do not see the logic behind creating wonderful classes of ships and then breaking them because a majority of players are refusing to learn how to fly.
Buff drones so they are there and won’t die on the first rocket blast or bring back minefields. That’s where we are at now for balance, but one of those two decisions need to be made otherwise anything done to compensate for it will break the game further.
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I absolutely did not understand nor agree with the reason to remove minefields from Engineers. If anything that should be the class to have them.
Wholeheartedly agree they need them back.
If anything, taking the mines away from the Engineers has led to further frig balls. It’s the one way we know of protecting ourselves :smoke:
I think that they gave them only to LR thinking it would buff them, but I don’t think that will help them in any way, they are still easy kills for almost any ship, and now Engis can barely defend themselves, at least Empire engis can do something but Fed engis are way too weak in terms of surviability, their extra speed don’t help them vs a cov ops with arch or a ecm shutting you down
minefields actually were part of the reason frig balls happend. They made it possible to have an OP area-of-denial. Every beacon with 5 minesfields on them and all…It was impossible to fight frigates that way since you couldn’t come close with inties or anything.
The current balance is fine without minefields.
A lot of factors play into the perception that frigate balls are invincible. Yes, the margin of error with them is smaller than it is with other team comps because all that health and survivability gives people time to make adjustments, counter-attack, etc. However, the fact that they had minefields was not what made them powerful nor was it the reason they happened.
In order to crack a frigball, no ship needs to get so close as to be within a minefield’s radius. All guns, including the “melee” ones, have more than enough range to allow pilots to stay well out mined areas. The one exception to this is Covert Ops if they want to use their plasma arc, but even then there are ways to get around minefields. For example, minefields can de-spawn (i.e. they don’t last forever) and they don’t move. Shoot a frigate with your guns, scare them away from their minefield, go in close for the kill.
Regarding the camping of beacons with minefields, I want to reiterate that you can kill frigates without ever triggering a single mine. Once the frigball is gone, take a Command ship or something else that has a lot of health and/or resists and clear the beacon. One pass-through with a Command using its diffusion shield effectively nullifies the minefield problem at beacons.
I agree that minefields should be available to frigates, especially Engineers.
minefields actually were part of the reason frig balls happend. They made it possible to have an OP area-of-denial. Every beacon with 5 minesfields on them and all…It was impossible to fight frigates that way since you couldn’t come close with inties or anything.
The current balance is fine without minefields.
If you are a bad enough pilot to continually fly through them, which you are, by the way, then you deserve to die to them, Funky.
Side note: Intresting btw, I got rejected from joining NASA for not being “adaptive” enough to the game, yet you seem to be unable to fly without minefields? adapt yourself!
I seem to lose more respect for some NASA members by the day…
And ZEIK nice missing half the point there…
mines despawn? really? what is that for xxxx statement, they don’t despawn until the moment where you could have done anything to break the frigball has passed 30 seconds ago. Not to mention you have to wait a full minute before you can get close to the beacon to capture it IF you can break the frigball.
Frigballs will 99% of the time not break with PUGS. And not even to other squads often enough.
Also really? People leave their minefields in a frig ball? I have NEVER seen anyone do that in a frig ball, because that would make em vulnerable, and they will never do that.
And yes, minefields was part of the reason frig balls were so effective.
The changes are good, frig balls have passed, don’t bring them back.
You guys really want your frigball-i-win buttons back don’t you?
Side note: Intresting btw, I got rejected from joining NASA for not being “adaptive” enough to the game, yet you seem to be unable to fly without minefields? adapt yourself!
I seem to lose more respect for some NASA members by the day…
That’s not why you didn’t get in NASA. Please stop spreading lies.
Frigballs have inherent weaknesses. I crack them, not play them.
Returning to the topic,
And ZEIK nice missing half the point there…
mines despawn? really? what is that for xxxx statement, they don’t despawn until the moment where you could have done anything to break the frigball has passed 30 seconds ago. Not to mention you have to wait a full minute before you can get close to the beacon to capture it IF you can break the frigball.
The emphasis in the latter half of my previous post is that frigate balls can be dealt with while ignoring any minefield. To dislodge a frigball, you will need a variety of ships from interceptors to fighters to your own frigates. In the event that your team is able to eliminate the opposition holding a beacon, there will be ships around that can soak the damage of a minefield, or even many minefields, to little ill effect on themselves. It is then that interceptors and other less tough ships can come in and capture the beacon.
The purpose of a minefield is to ward off swarms of interceptors and provide a last line of defence for frigates. Minefields never stopped a team with good coordination from punching straight through enemy lines.
minefields actually were part of the reason frig balls happend. They made it possible to have an OP area-of-denial. Every beacon with 5 minesfields on them and all…It was impossible to fight frigates that way since you couldn’t come close with inties or anything.
The current balance is fine without minefields.
And now we have blue balls that destroy these frigate balls from outside those minefields. You don’t have to go anywhere near a minefield in any ship to shoot at a frigate.
And now we have blue balls that destroy these frigate balls from outside those minefields. You don’t have to go anywhere near a minefield in any ship to shoot at a frigate.
yet the mine fields would still exist, and they are not needed on guards/engineers.
Give it a a 10 or 15 second lifetime. They should not be able to hold a beacon after the squad has left! Also, make sure the radius is small enough that careful interceptors can still safely capture an abandoned beacon.
There have yet to be any kind of rebuttals as to why it is imbalanced to give engineers minefields back other than those due to PILOT ERROR of the attacker, not BALANCE.
It is about balancing the mobility of fighters and interceptors against the inability of frigates to defend close in. Those ships have plenty of offensive and defensive abilities beyond their speed and maneuverability to close distance already, and now they have removed the last line of defense a frigate has.
So I’m waiting for real reasons to surface, as I have thought it over and can’t really find any to justify it beyond bad assumptions due to inexperience, and that isn’t a good way to balance a game that is to be skill based.
90 seconds may be too long, I can see your point there. 45 Seconds would be a fair change to that. If it were lowered to 15-20 seconds, there would have to be a need to increase capacity carried. An interceptor can carefully capture a beacon already if there is a minefield there, as the maximum range of capture is 750 m and minefields have a maximum range of 520m, so there is always a part of the beacon that is open to capture.
yet the mine fields would still exist, and they are not needed on guards/engineers.
Well, fighters have engines, they are not needed. Also, interceptors shouldn’t have hull, that’s totally not needed either.
There would frequently be multiple minefields. Many individual pilots would avoid the mines and go to the next beacon rather than hope a guard and engineer would fly in and absorb the damage. Your “protection detail” helps you to not see the other side. You know your squadmates will help keep you safe even if your shields are gone. Most players would only hope. Even if it’s Empire, shields down hints a weakened target. Considering the new weapons deal so much damage, I doubt minefields would really be enough for general defense. I will say the LRF won’t use them properly. I don’t feel they should be eliminated, but they needed a change.
Some of it is just the battle type. In beacon hunt, it’s OP. In combat recon, whatever.
I want the mines back on my engineers too 
There would frequently be multiple minefields. Many individual pilots would avoid the mines and go to the next beacon rather than hope a guard and engineer would fly in and absorb the damage. Your “protection detail” helps you to not see the other side. You know your squadmates will help keep you safe even if your shields are gone. Most players would only hope. Even if it’s Empire, shields down hints a weakened target. Considering the new weapons deal so much damage, I doubt minefields would really be enough for general defense. I will say the LRF won’t use them properly. I don’t feel they should be eliminated, but they needed a change.
Some of it is just the battle type. In beacon hunt, it’s OP. In combat recon, whatever.
It is only an effective psychological deterrent because pilots choose to let them be. It is still pilot choice. Just like you choose not to play the engineer, or you choose not to play the guard, the command ship, the recon etc, when maybe that one choice would have completely changed the outcome of the battle. You choose to let others have to do it for you, how can you be surprised when they make the same choice as you and how is any of that a balance problem?
If you believe minefields are not useful due to new weapon damage, why would you care if they are changed at all?
I just love the hate you guys have for me for no reason whatsoever.
Anyway, minefields have no purpose on guards and engineers. Don’t want to get killed by them? Get some friends around you that will protect you from them when they attack you.
Or stop trying to solo a complete match.
While I think Engineers are underpowered in the current meta I’m very unconvinced that giving them minefields is the way to fix it. I’m not at all sorry to see minefield spam go away and definitely don’t want it back.
Tbqh I’ve been flying my Cerberus 2 (sorry, Styx) in T3 again and frankly no one seems to bother to shoot me any more because I’m no longer the battlefield changing engine of imbalance that I used to be.