@ NASA - if the issue is that frigates are consistently losing their 1 vs 1 and lack an acceptable level of self defense I say we find another way to fix that. Minefield is a partial fix at the cost of bringing back other negatives.
Kine’s suggestion: Create a new missile type for Engineers
A particle purge cartridge that is loaded into the frigate’s missile slot
Mechanics is identical to Gunship’s Shield Purge
Except the Engineer does not lose it’s shield upon activation, just the ammo count.
This will provide an Engineer with close proximity defense option without having the ability to place them physically on the map.
It will however tempt people into balling up again so actual working numbers are important, specifically the cooldown.
Personally I’d opt for Ion effect over damage because non damage based deterrents are fairer in a 1 v 1 context (skill and decision making being more important blabla)
But I foresee mass QQ’ing if Engineers are given a stun ability lol
It can comeback with a tweak: Only 1 charge, the reloading pack cd would be its cd. This should prevent constant spamming which has been annoyance in certain game modes.
I’ve always wanted to see Engineers capable of deploying/constructing turrets, personally - rather than minefields.
This is slightly more balanced as turrets can be fired upon and destroyed more easily than mines can. In addition, Engineers should passively repair said turrets when nearby - making them stronger when the Engineer is physically there and reducing their survivability when the Engineer is not.
As well as a ‘point-defense’ weapon (think goalkeeper) on Guards instead of the silly pulsar.
But that doesn’t remove my agreement with the original point made in this topic - Engineers need something back that helps them defend their position or deter potential interceptor swarms.
What are you guys even talking about, Engineers already have the strongest self-defense of all frigates by far (guards have more HP but are so slow they’re easily outmaneuvered, and LRFs just die). Stronger combat drones would be nice so they don’t blow up on the first missile hit, but they really don’t need more utility. And yes, I do fly engineers myself.
Before 0.9 mines were good against bad players, who fly into you without thinking of consequences. The problem now is that even a terrible player(easiest for fighters) can kill engie if caught in bad position. As far as I can see the thing you have to be aware the most is your positioning in map, because there is not much you can do in a dogfight anymore.
I pretty much don’t play Engy anymore. Don’t like to feel underpowered. Also new weapons are not that good.
I’m enjoying flying Engineer again, having lost all desire to do so sometime around 0.8.3.
Minefields were cheap. Their skill in to power out ratio was way out of whack. The number of times I scored 2-3 kills / assists just from flying past a beacon and dropping a minefield were ridiculous. They don’t advocate skill; they encourage a lack of skill. “Sit here and watch ships explode” is not skillful, nor is it particularly engaging for anyone involved.
Moreover, they were yet another element in the Frigateball problem - the issue that defense trumped attack. 0.9.0 seems to be trying hard to swing this back in favour of the attacker, with healing being so weak and ordnance being plentiful. Aggression is always a valid option when there is little in the way of prepared defenses available.
1 v 1 Engineer vs Most weapons = Engineers lose 75% of the time (or more, in testing it came out close to 100% success rate against engies)
There are a couple of weapons that CANNOT kill an Engineer but most others, they do the job either too easily or better than acceptable.
Ofcourse positioning and awareness plays a big role in determining who comes out on top in regular games but for sake of mechanical balance, Engineer 1on1 survivability is close to nil.
I lay the blame on nerfed Engineer drones but *ahem* that was needed. Improving Engineer odds at surviving an encounter wouldn’t be asking too much but bringing minefields back is not the only option nor the best. A specific self-defense module would work out better imho.
When you need to be within 750m to capture it, or 300ish to plant a bomb, it was very easy to flood minefields and totally deny the objective. Do you really think it should have been possible for 2-3 ships to just drop fields 300m away from a beacon and then fly away, safe in the knowledge that nobody could touch it?
@ NASA - if the issue is that frigates are consistently losing their 1 vs 1 and lack an acceptable level of self defense I say we find another way to fix that. Minefield is a partial fix at the cost of bringing back other negatives.
We’ve been able to compensate for the lack of minefields by playing in tighter formations. When I play Recon, I essentially become my frigate’s minefield; when a swarm of enemy ships go after my Engineer, I get a call to warp in and chase the aggressors off with proximity mines and general fire.
This thread was started in response to the explanation for why minefields were removed from frigates (LRF being the exception).
I mentioned some time ago that in order to justify the power of certain modules, particularly the plasma arc, there must be an available counter. Minefields were that counter. They also encouraged smarter play as you could not just rush headlong into either an enemy frigate or a beacon.
I believe the minefields should also be extended back to Guards… I have found, personally that I love to use my coil mortar, but that weapon’s vast ineffectiveness in close combat has left me with only a pulsar for close defense. Even with the other three weapons, (The lasers being the only frigate weapon effective at close combat), I still lack largely in close combat. Any interceptor who can survive my pulsar, or simply stay away until it has run out can hit me easy… My guard is essentially useless on its own. It no longer works well going point, or solo guarding a beacon. I have to stick close to allies, especially engineers, to have a chance to survive, which simply reinforces frig balls.
I have yet to see any frig ball on a beacon, I whole heartedly think that bringing back minefield spam will make frig balls as in the past and that is a bad thing.
I have yet to see any frig ball on a beacon, I whole heartedly think that bringing back minefield spam will make frig balls as in the past and that is a bad thing.
You didn’t see them last night, there were far too many of them And it doesn’t help when you get lumped in with a tier above either!
And it doesn’t help when you get lumped in with a tier above either!