in the end, the point of all this is to have an active discussion about the game and its direction.
Whatever your views, state them as you wish. I’ve taken the liberty of inviting almost everyone on the forums, eng and russian, with most of the english forums having a pm invite for what my inbox could handle including any devs and mods accounts that I could find.
18 hours ago, xKostyan said:
B) There was next to endless farm of resources of loot in locked rooms by trading wins and fixing matches
to be honest, that was a lazy fix for a predictible problem
also there were rooms at least in high times
but in general i do agree, that a game that focuses on “progression” (for your sense of pride and accomplishments i guess) will not work with private lobbies that have no rewards.
and the GUI / ranked MM doesnt help there either.
but cmon these arguments should be clear to you already that they are nonsense:
3 hours ago, xKostyan said:
Name a few MMO PvP games that have game progression handled via public rooms, not just character xp level and vanity items, the actual complex equipment and game progression.
this is not an mmo, even with a general lobby. massive means, massive. if this is an mmo, any game with a global matchmaker is an mmo. picking up items and having a general chat does not make it an mmo. just because the devs write mmo on the webpage, does not make it an mmo. not to mention, that i find star conflict does have numerous and complicated items, but its far from complex. but thats nitpicking.
okay okay this whole post is kinda nitpicking, but it would be even more nitty picky
2 hours ago, xKostyan said:
That is not how online PvP games work
erm, games without matchmakers actually do work like this, and even games with matchmakers have great amounts of private lobbies or matchmakers that can fill up custom lobbies (battlefield, counter strike, mechwarrior, starcraft arcade, to name a few, that do exactly this, some more, some less successful) - it is really just a question of game design, goals, reward and fun.
that be said, i think we are far from this suggestion however. i do believe it could be done, but it would need a ground up shift in world view. i do not think it is easily possible, and i think, we do agree that wolfkhan sees this in a slightly too, erm, “idealistic” perspective.
also i see no point, if you wanna play MM, you hit play. if you want customs, you go custom.
finally, you get the audience you design for, no need to blame the players
17 minutes ago, g4borg said:
erm, games without matchmakers actually do work like this, and even games with matchmakers have great amounts of private lobbies or matchmakers that can fill up custom lobbies (battlefield, counter strike, mechwarrior, starcraft arcade, to name a few, that do exactly this, some more, some less successful) - it is really just a question of game design, goals, reward and fun.
1
I know how public rooms work ”) I said that in regards to human interactions, most of the time public room interactions are the opposite of what wolf portrays them to be.
On top of that “room” gameplay lead to way more Join/Disconnected than it needs to be.
I realize the possibility of toxicity rearing its ugly head, but I have faith in humanity that the better parts of our playerbase will give a good example to follow for the majority of players.
As for the join/disconnect, so long as the people who are joining in a room are decent enough to realize what they’re getting into they won’t dc until the end of the game or in the event of an emergency like it is now.
inactives can be kicked.
There will always be that one person who’s a toxic **-wipe with or without a custom battle system.
the people who yell at others for not doing well to go back to tier 1 are a prime example of current toxicity and those types appear in 'most any shooter game.
cant vote.
i neither want a mere reintroduction of lobby rewards without some additional footwork (like clear invested time payoffs, and fixing exploiting the system)
nor do i know, whether i would still not just hit play
that being said, i enjoy custom servers in many games more, than matchmaking, as sometimes custom rules can actually fix issues, or change the feel of gameplay. e.g. i like to play on hardcore battlefield servers, or similar.
but i cannot imagine mixing a matchmaker that brings me in a custom server like that. even if in starcraft, the “put me in a random game” mechanic in arcade does work, but then again, thats a certain kind of “exploration”.
i do think the game itself however should be balanced and designed, that theoretically, with a large population, such things should be possible
14 minutes ago, xKostyan said:
most of the time public room interactions are the opposite
okay, but on the other hand, the few times we organized some privates with nasa or wpk back in the days when MM was really dead were hours of fun gameplay.
except if kurdi made the teams.
additionally, i do know from the 2 years star battle on Sc2 arcade was a thing, hundreds of people actually met in teamspeaks, organized inhouses; similar to early day dota or aos players. of course none of the games i know where private lobbies are great, had item drops and progression - and it feels a bit like masochism to not have rewards in a game focusing so much on it.
so i do not even think its that much the “internet youth” of today, where every non-programmer or casual wannabe already knows how to dial in and play a game online. hehehe. or as i often say, look this is what we got, for making it “accessible”.
5 minutes ago, g4borg said:
okay, but on the other hand, the few times we organized some privates with nasa or wpk back in the days when MM was really dead were hours of fun gameplay.
except if kurdi made the teams.
The things that make custom games fun have nothing to do with rewards, it was just about the people you were playing with.
I don’t think it’s necessary to waste a patch on reworking the game economy to include custom games, it’s fine as it is now.
1 hour ago, DrDeath_ScD said:
The same few naysayers as always. There is no saving this game when these people are what dictate all the nerfs and anything else.
1 hour ago, Papitas said:
…l there are plenty of complications…
Yes, exactly!
51 minutes ago, g4borg said:
…and i think, we do agree that wolfkhan sees this in a slightly too, erm, “idealistic” perspective…
Yes, he might got it a bit all too idealistic. But in the end you could see a bit of his point, that it could, should, would be fun…somehow…
1 hour ago, Cr0 said:
The things that make custom games fun have nothing to do with rewards, it was just about the people you were playing with.
whats your point?
the games were fun, regardless that there were no rewards
they were fun, when we organized it together, they were fun, when people joined randomly, or the few times we - or even i myself alone - joined random organizers through global
point is, they were fun because players were there solely for the game
but unlike in games, where this can be the core of the dedicated playerbase, it did not work well, because everybody in the group felt that somehow there is still something left out.
meaning the lack of rewards was still an issue that kept such activities from being repeated.
competitive games, which have no ingame mechanic rewards do not have this issue, and i tried to bring examples from my own experiences.
as i do have a history with quite a few hardcore games across genres, some of them also competitive, and i am not that young.
the fact, that there are games which have reward systems, that work no matter what kind of games you play, be it custom lobby or matchmaking, is all a question of how to use the carrots correctly. and there are quite a few examples of games, which do solve that issue quite well.
you can use carrots to reward people, but lack of rewards will always feel like a punishment.
it’s kinda like the story of why blizzard switched from decreasing xp gain to “xp boost for offline time” in wow.
1 hour ago, g4borg said:
whats your point?
the games were fun, regardless that there were no rewards
they were fun, when we organized it together, they were fun, when people joined randomly, or the few times we - or even i myself alone - joined random organizers through global
point is, they were fun because players were there solely for the game
but unlike in games, where this can be the core of the dedicated playerbase, it did not work well, because everybody in the group felt that somehow there is still something left out.
meaning the lack of rewards was still an issue that kept such activities from being repeated.
competitive games, which have no ingame mechanic rewards do not have this issue, and i tried to bring examples from my own experiences.
as i do have a history with quite a few hardcore games across genres, some of them also competitive, and i am not that young.
the fact, that there are games which have reward systems, that work no matter what kind of games you play, be it custom lobby or matchmaking, is all a question of how to use the carrots correctly. and there are quite a few examples of games, which do solve that issue quite well.
you can use carrots to reward people, but lack of rewards will always feel like a punishment.
it’s kinda like the story of why blizzard switched from decreasing xp gain to “xp boost for offline time” in wow.
I agree with 'the games were fun, regardless that there were no rewards’
I don’t agree with ‘because everybody in the group felt that somehow there is still something left out. meaning the lack of rewards was still an issue that kept such activities from being repeated’
I never felt like I missed out on rewards for these games, and at the moment I don’t play the game for rewards, so I think this topic is a bit of a waste of time.
18 minutes ago, Cr0 said:
I agree with 'the games were fun, regardless that there were no rewards’
I don’t agree with ‘because everybody in the group felt that somehow there is still something left out. meaning the lack of rewards was still an issue that kept such activities from being repeated’
I never felt like I missed out on rewards for these games, and at the moment I don’t play the game for rewards, so I think this topic is a bit of a waste of time.
in my experience, the ones who want rewards think of it as a waste of time to join in rewardless custom battles because of the sole reason that they want rewards, and the ones that do find the time to join in on rewardless custom battles leave soon after because they want to continue grinding rewards for the day regardless of how much enjoyment they’re having. many of the people I have talked to wouldn’t join into a custom room for the sole reason that they wouldn’t be getting the chance to continue this grindy game while they did it.
48 minutes ago, Cr0 said:
I don’t agree with ‘because everybody in the group felt that somehow there is still something left out. meaning the lack of rewards was still an issue that kept such activities from being repeated’
everybody is of course not everybody, not everybody feels it the same way, thats just my hyperbole
anyway this was not a question of my personal opinion
if you base your game mechanics on rewards, and add a mode which has no rewards, subconsciously it will feel like a punishment
maybe not to everybody, but to many. and many might not even realize it.
59 minutes ago, Cr0 said:
I never felt like I missed out on rewards for these games, and at the moment I don’t play the game for rewards, so I think this topic is a bit of a waste of time.
i hardly ever played the game for rewards. i am not talking about my personal feelings here.
i never needed rewards to keep playing, i kept playing the same ships over and over for fun and had to actually force myself to progress further. i can set my own goals.
but that does not mean, i am not aware, why people felt less satisfied, and why such “events” usually were ended with “lets do this again!” without it happening.
and of course most of the time as social creatures, biggest motivation is others.
but to be honest, reflecting and reading up on such matters of games is personally interesting to me, since i try to create them.
if it’s a waste of time for you, why bother
I think The better solution would be to be able to choose which map type(s) I want to queue for and exclude the ones I don’t like, I am mostly a support/tank player with Engineer/Guard/Destroyer and I really hate beacon hunts …
The thing to do would probably be creating a pvp equivalent to the pve “choose mission”. It would still be queue based but allows you to choose your favourite game mode.
how about… Custom Battles being a player-vote-based PvP?
We get to choose what PvE mission we want, so, there could be a chance:
Select Map
MM Q’s you in with pilots that want same map.
Game Mode Voting: vote for 1 of 3 Game Modes
Auto Balancing (Like MM)
Play, Win, Reward
After battle is over, Map voting appears, 3 options: last map, and 2 other maps.
Game Mode voting appears: last game mode, and 2 other game modes
Basically implementing the opportunity to CHOOSE, without exploiting rewards.
There are enough games that had this and it was proven to be faster than current Q system.
Game uninstalled due to Moderators sharing my new name to others making it hard to get away from the Hate crew.
49 minutes ago, DrDeath_ScD said:
Game uninstalled due to Moderators sharing my new name to others making it hard to get away from the Hate crew.
Dude, your account ID never changes, it does not matter if you change your name. Meaning
If you are on friends list, or on Black List - that will be updated and to those with the list they will see your new name
There are public tracking tools, like this one http://ts2.scorpclub.ru/api/v1/userinfo.php?uid=255246
and they go by “ID” not your name, so it will show all of your name changes. This is PUBLIC INFORMATION, i can go around telling your new name to anybody, nothing you can do about it and it has nothing to do with Moderators.
On 17.12.2017 at 5:54 AM, WolfKhanGeneral said:
Useless text
1 hour ago, Tillowaty said:
that’s so adorable 
3 hours ago, Tillowaty said:
is this a doki doki meme?