IMO the squad missions play a big part in the “broken PvP”.
Because randoms squad with randoms.
And good players squad with good players.
That reminds me the PvP I did the other day.
It was me + Endeav + randoms vs
Milfeulle + Eugen + Adam + Deleted + Shotan + Shapeshifter
I think big and slow destroyer ship masses need not to be easily killed and blown up in space battles (1v1 principle).
In PvP it would suffice to have them disabled - completely or partly - making them not capable of beacon denial .
Instead of death and respawn, destroyers would fly or drift disabled through space gaining little to their team.
Flying destroyers that are more survivable into open space missions (thats what many players used them for because of the alien menace) would be more reasonable: one could safely fly through one of the warp gates to flee from final destruction from alien em-‘green balls’ canonfire, 5 hops from base!
Destroyers as they are now are fine; they are essentially a variant of the Long Range Frigate. They are still very good at their “Suppression” role, being able to lay down large amounts of long range fire and pin targets, but suppression =/= “kicking down the door and skull-xxxx everyone on the other side”. Destroyers are now dead in the water if they get into a close-range brawl, which is perfectly fine. They aren’t the team tank, nor are they the DPS provider; they’re the support. They’re battlefield control units, supporting from the mid or rear line. Complaining that Destroyers can’t handle close range fights anymore is like complaining Recons can’t snipe.
18 minutes ago, JasanQuinn said:
Destroyers as they are now are fine; they are essentially a variant of the Long Range Frigate. They are still very good at their “Suppression” role, being able to lay down large amounts of long range fire and pin targets, but suppression =/= “kicking down the door and skull-xxxx everyone on the other side”. Destroyers are now dead in the water if they get into a close-range brawl, which is perfectly fine. They aren’t the team tank, nor are they the DPS provider; they’re the support. They’re battlefield control units, supporting from the mid or rear line. Complaining that Destroyers can’t handle close range fights anymore is like complaining Recons can’t snipe.
Yeah I’m perfectly fine with this.
But there’s a limit to it. A convert ops with camo can just get to your back, and one shot you. Even an LRF is harder to kill that way and have some escape.
Correct, and destroyers can’t hide themselfs like LRFs.
The last patch was a problem for destroyers in other game modes too.
IDK why but the death star comes to mind with the latest updates lol
And destroyers are such big targest even a blind grandma would shoot and kill them with a Tharga. Why do this super big and slow ships need to have inherent near-field damage penalty? The answer is obvious…
Destroyers as a class are pretty useless right now, especially with all the negatives added through the year (crowd control vulnerability, long as5 re-spawns)
Destroyers in general are pretty terrible at suppression
The only active module that is more or less suppression is a Photon torpedo, which ain’t going to hit anything from 3+ ranges if its not a brick type of target. All other modules are either direct engagement types that shine at 1-2 km ranges, or area denial like a Black hole or Pyro that mostly work on a beacon only
Outside of Sirius with kinetic bonus+ Coils+some mobility for proper suppression angles and Vigilant with his laser+dmg, none other of the destroyers good with any gun at mid-long range damage delivery, all guns are designed to shine at 2-3 k ranges, go further and you are next to useless
the only exception is Mesons with 2-3 eGuidances, that can work at 4k.
Destroyers do not have means to suppress at mid longer ranges, the single command with a Phaser does better job at “suppressing” at 4k distances, gunships with 4k gauss has better suppression at 3.5-4k ranges, tacklers with slow-beams at 4k+ have better “suppression” than destroyers.
So for destroyers to be effective they do have to come to 3k ranges from a battle, and yet that is 2-3 seconds away from being torn apart from within 750 range. Destroyers (Again not Sirius with coils and Vigilant with lasers) sitting at 4k + ranges can be easily ignored by enemy team as a useless dead weight.
You forgot guard. Guard is great for keeping inties away. The slowing mod makes it dam near impossible to get in and out fast enough to be effective. and then pulsar and missile thingy ma-whatever…
If you was right, Kosty, why did they nerf the destroyers in speed and buffed their vulnerability to incoming damage, then? What is your opinion?
Because speed mode on a router did give unjustified amount of speed, especially since it is %% based, scaling out of proportion in some cases (aka Feds with 400+ speed)
Close range vulnerability is nice, it is just to big of a range and to much of a multiplier that multiplicatively scale on top of existing multipliers.
My point is that Destroyers as a class were never great at mid-long range “suppression” in game realities
Why is close range vulnerability to damage nice? To whom would it benefit? What does it do to game/battle situation?
22 minutes ago, xKostyan said:
My point is that Destroyers as a class were never great at mid-long range “suppression” in game realities
I suggested that destroyers should be long range suppressors for destroyers only!
Mid-range suppressors for frigates, mainly.
And short range supressors … well makes no sense…tbh save in combination with speed, which I do agree should stay nerfed.
I argue that destroyer weapons and modules are effective for mif-range suppression, hence beacon denial and look at micro black-holes…
Destroyer long range sniper builds should not be able to hunt down small ships !
I argue that destroyer weapons are not great for close range defence and the big the destroyers are a target it needs no damage vulnerability to close range incoming fire! As I said, a monkey in a chair could do it…
23 hours ago, Scarecrow_1 said:
- Destroyers to have their normal huge hull/shield pools respective to their factions, their speed modules to be limited to propel them up to 250m/s as a non-warp limit, and 500m/s when warping. Their mobility or agility LIMITED to 40 degrees per second.
28 minutes ago, xKostyan said:
Because speed mode on a router did give unjustified amount of speed, especially since it is %% based, scaling out of proportion in some cases (aka Feds with 400+ speed)
Close range vulnerability is nice, it is just to big of a range and to much of a multiplier that multiplicatively scale on top of existing multipliers.
My point is that Destroyers as a class were never great at mid-long range “suppression” in game realities
I literally already gave fair fixes to all these problems… fixes, not special treat to a certain class, but giving both parts a good medium.
Yeah, destroyers need a lot more projectile speed, accuracy, and effective range (not necessarily any more maximum range) to be actually functional. They could have a minimum effective range on their weapons as a vulnerability, rather than this silly multiplier for all taken damage within 750 meters.
I have no idea why the devs put this modifier there rather than just reduced their hull and shield volume overall. Also, maybe finally make destroyers unable to shoot through their own Static Barriers? Those should be there only to block Disintegrator fire, and to turn 1v2+ situations into 1v1.
6 minutes ago, Vohvelielain said:
Also, maybe finally make destroyers unable to shoot through their own Static Barriers? Those should be there only to block Disintegrator fire, and to turn 1v2+ situations into 1v1.
I rarely even use my destroyer anymore and especially since the latest patch but if they did this ^^ then I will never use it again and that includes spec ops. It then would be worthless. Using the healing drones on vigilant at least for my build is useless. My build relies on the barriers since its built to be anti-laser-vigilant build. I use halo and block lasers. Which I can normally take on several destroyers at a time. In some case I get flanked and cant guard 2 sides at the same time.
Destroyers to have their normal huge hull/shield pools respective to their factions, their speed modules to be limited to propel them up to 250m/s as a non-warp limit, and 500m/s when warping. Their mobility or agility (pitch & roll) LIMITED to 40 degrees per second.
Destroyers to have the following when it comes to “kill the destroyer”: Destroyers will deal 50% less main weapon dmg to any ship that gets close to 2000m , because their role is not meant to be CQC (and they already have an issue attacking ships up close: not all guns can shoot the target, so it will make it MORE difficult to counter interceptors or other ships up close, leaving the responsibility to their teammates, like if should be)
Add another module to the destroyer: Destroyer Bridge (control room). When destroyed, radar systems will be offline ('white noise effect). 80 seconds to repair. *Destroyers would now have: Engines, Capacitor, Bridge; 4 turret modules*
Destruction of destroyer modules will result in a % of hull damage instead of hull points:
1. For Federation and Jericho destroyers:
Engine: 10%
Capacitor: 15%
Bridge: 10%
Module 1: 10%
Module 2: 10%
Module 3: 10%
Module 4: 10%
75% hull value in total
2. For Empire destroyers:
Engine: 5%
Capacitor: 15%
Bridge: 10%
Module 1: 5%
Module 2: 5%
Module 3: 5%
Module 4: 5%
50% hull value in total (since they have lame shields, it compensates)
- Destroyers will not be punished by the x2 explosive damage. Instead, if the destroyer loses its shield, the destroyer will suffer a x3 damage TO THE MODULES from all ships around 2000m for 10 seconds. (Think of it being a system overload for the shields being gone).
Destroyers that have their shields popped to 0 on their first time (with 120 second intervals), their shield explodes with a EMP that affects the destroyer itself and any other ships in 500m radius, for 1 second, and deals 1000 EM damage to anything on that radius, including the destroyer itself. Additionally, the destroyer will suffer a 10 second shield reboot: the destroyer will not be able to recharge shields IN ANY WAY for 10 seconds.
Destroyers will be able to ram ships, dealing quite a damage proportional to the ship size and the impact velocity (small ships get hit hard, eyes on that)
Destroyer that gets destroyed, is no longer available to the player. In short: destroyers will NOT respawn on PvP.
- A destroyer that gets rammed by a ship flying at +2000 m/s will be destroyed.
- Slotting destroyers only will NOT be allowed. The player will be prompted to slot a regular ship to one of the 3 or 4 slots available.
21 hours ago, Scarecrow_1 said:
Plus, I am nerfing them in my post (same on comments), if you read tho, you will notice, I’m not nerfing their hitpoints, but their functionality as they take damage.
20 hours ago, Scarecrow_1 said:
A good warning with a critical state alarm on dessies would make it a blast dying too lol
“Ship has gone critical! Everyone to the escape pods! Ship is- *static*” … a 5 second death animation where you see your ship blowing up slowly, and suddenly boom.
Oh and lets not forget cosmetic stuff too… like ya know, artwork to make it cooler (and less saltier… probably more chaotic when killed)
Ah now that’s a nice idea… The explosion radius to be increased and dish out more damage so that people will think twice about attacking a destroyer up close or use a bit more skill and planning in the process. Covops using plasma arc and taking your hull down to 1/3 from full shields and hull is bs.
11 minutes ago, Scarecrow_1 said:
Destroyers to have their normal huge hull/shield pools respective to their factions, their speed modules to be limited to propel them up to 250m/s as a non-warp limit, and 500m/s when warping. Their mobility or agility (pitch & roll) LIMITED to 40 degrees per second.
Destroyers to have the following when it comes to “kill the destroyer”: Destroyers will deal 50% less main weapon dmg to any ship that gets close to 2000m , because their role is not meant to be CQC (and they already have an issue attacking ships up close: not all guns can shoot the target, so it will make it MORE difficult to counter interceptors or other ships up close, leaving the responsibility to their teammates, like if should be)
Add another module to the destroyer: Destroyer Bridge (control room). When destroyed, radar systems will be offline ('white noise effect). 80 seconds to repair. *Destroyers would now have: Engines, Capacitor, Bridge; 4 turret modules*
Destruction of destroyer modules will result in a % of hull damage instead of hull points:
1. For Federation and Jericho destroyers:
Engine: 10%
Capacitor: 15%
Bridge: 10%
Module 1: 10%
Module 2: 10%
Module 3: 10%
Module 4: 10%
75% hull value in total
2. For Empire destroyers:
Engine: 5%
Capacitor: 15%
Bridge: 10%
Module 1: 5%
Module 2: 5%
Module 3: 5%
Module 4: 5%
50% hull value in total (since they have lame shields, it compensates)
- Destroyers will not be punished by the x2 explosive damage. Instead, if the destroyer loses its shield, the destroyer will suffer a x3 damage TO THE MODULES from all ships around 2000m for 10 seconds. (Think of it being a system overload for the shields being gone).
Destroyers that have their shields popped to 0 on their first time (with 120 second intervals), their shield explodes with a EMP that affects the destroyer itself and any other ships in 500m radius, for 1 second, and deals 1000 EM damage to anything on that radius, including the destroyer itself. Additionally, the destroyer will suffer a 10 second shield reboot: the destroyer will not be able to recharge shields IN ANY WAY for 10 seconds.
Destroyers will be able to ram ships, dealing quite a damage proportional to the ship size and the impact velocity (small ships get hit hard, eyes on that)
Destroyer that gets destroyed, is no longer available to the player. In short: destroyers will NOT respawn on PvP.
- A destroyer that gets rammed by a ship flying at +2000 m/s will be destroyed.
- Slotting destroyers only will NOT be allowed. The player will be prompted to slot a regular ship to one of the 3 or 4 slots available.
to complex and unnecessary effort, some of it make no sense,
so no
