i aint even gonna bother reading all this krapp… ! ships are fine. people ARENT!
i aint even gonna bother reading all this krapp… ! ships are fine. people ARENT!
People do what the game mechanics makes the most efficient. People don’t bother with complicated solutions if the easy ones do the job fine. Want them to change, change the rules.
People do what the game mechanics makes the most efficient. People don’t bother with complicated solutions if the easy ones do the job fine. Want them to change, change the rules.
LRF efficient? NOPE
EASY ONE DO THE JOB FINE? NOPE
sniping w/ 0 aim skillzz isn’t efficient and doesn’t do the job fine! :012j:
LRF efficient? NOPE
EASY ONE DO THE JOB FINE? NOPE
sniping w/ 0 aim skillzz isn’t efficient and doesn’t do the job fine! :012j:
Exactly.
The LRF has amazing potential, but requires a lot of skill to unlock that potential. Sitting in spawn trying to hit things from 10k+ away (with no aiming skillz) is horribly inefficient, and only gets one job done; pissing off your team for being useless.
The suggestions I posted would give the less-skilled players a way to use LRF in a manner that would benefit the team more, as well as a way to discourage sitting in spawn.
How about just making it so that there is a longer cool-down of the module at the start of the match, say something like 60-120 seconds until LRF modules could be used at all? This way the people playing the ship will either need to sit there like idiots for that time doing literally nothing while waiting to start doing technically nothing, or they could start playing the game to get in and start doing something (like taking a better position outside of spawn).
You can’t fix bad players. Some will STILL remain at spawn and just die after doing nothing the entire match. You can help them a little by adding an in-game tutorial similar to the one we have already for gunships, but maybe with an LRF that gives directions on how to play the class. That along with the first suggestion would probably help inform people that they need to start MOVING when they start a game, not simply sitting there in sniper view.
I don’t think LRFs are that hard to kill, but neither are they supposed to be a laughing matter. My Tormentor is currently putting-out enough DPS with rapid-fire purple coils to make inties think twice before flying to me for an easy kill, and it can certainly out-DPS larger prey such as gunships and Engies, which makes it a pretty even match to tougher ships that typically survive longer but do less damage. So no, I really don’t see a major issue with LRF survivability due to how useful they are with those extra 2 cannons they all get. Add some passive resistance modules and the Shield/Hull repair modules, and the thing is quite tough for how big of a punch it packs.
Another suggestion would be to maybe increase the range of the primary weapon by giving all LRFs a passive bonus of +10-20% and or a nerf to their class skills… well, if anything, longer cool-down and larger alpha damage was a MUCH better alternative to the rapid Pew Pew the game ended-up going with. Snipers in every game typically require precise shots that do critical damage with each hit, not a bunch of fast shots that chip away at the target… they need to bring that back. 1-shot kills should be possible, it should require a bit more effort to do that, while there also needs to be an encouragement to using the main guns for those that can’t pull-off those insanely precise shots, nor should it be possible to play the class all game JUST by killing people with those shots. For that to work right, the game would need to add a LONG cool-down on the module ONLY, and then when the player enters sniper mode, they should be able to fire instantly, followed by another LONG cool-down which will allow players to spend more time outside of sniper mode and moving around than currently.
long cooldown on sniper mode is bad… coz good position for snipin is too far for main weapon and sniping from 2nd line isnt efficient
LRF efficient? NOPE
EASY ONE DO THE JOB FINE? NOPE
sniping w/ 0 aim skillzz isn’t efficient and doesn’t do the job fine! :012j:
I haven’t met that many “useless” LRF, most i see do rather well at killing things. The problem is they (many, not all) farm kills and don’t care about the objectives of the match. I’ve lost plenty of matches to those awsome snipers that just don’t care enough to win.
When i play my LRFs, i tend to spend most of my time gunning stuff down rather than sniping; i only snipe what i can’t reach otherwise.
Another suggestion would be to maybe increase the range of the primary weapon by giving all LRFs a passive bonus of +10-20% and or a nerf to their class skills… well, if anything, longer cool-down and larger alpha damage was a MUCH better alternative to the rapid Pew Pew the game ended-up going with. Snipers in every game typically require precise shots that do critical damage with each hit, not a bunch of fast shots that chip away at the target… they need to bring that back. 1-shot kills should be possible, it should require a bit more effort to do that, while there also needs to be an encouragement to using the main guns for those that can’t pull-off those insanely precise shots, nor should it be possible to play the class all game JUST by killing people with those shots. For that to work right, the game would need to add a LONG cool-down on the module ONLY, and then when the player enters sniper mode, they should be able to fire instantly, followed by another LONG cool-down which will allow players to spend more time outside of sniper mode and moving around than currently.
I rather not have one-shot kills, there are already plenty of weapons that can 2-3 shot us in a matter of seconds depending on fits; frustrating enough as it is.
long cooldown on sniper mode is bad… coz good position for snipin is too far for main weapon and sniping from 2nd line isnt efficient
That’s why I suggested adding range to the main weapons to balance that out. :3
If it’s a “long range” anything, it should be longer-range than everything else… of course up to a point… and I think your idea of a “good position” is different from mine. I meant an area near cover and out of the way of typical ship flight paths, NOT 11Km above or below the center of the map out in the open where nobody can even see your spec of a ship. Closer to the combat so that the main guns could be used, not so that you could sit in T2 and snipe the entire game… that’s the whole thing I’m trying to prevent with my suggestions.
Let’s not forget that the LRF also has the unique feature of having 2 more guns, so the F module should not be the only thing that makes the LRF so special… or at least it doesn’t really now, since it functions like many other weapons in the game, just fires slower and has longer range… why not make it more special by emphasizing it’s special property: the ability to reach-out and really touch somebody? Doing it a little less often but with more affect may improve the game mechanics imho… and would probably make people whine even more about how OP the thing is… until they try playing it themselves and can’t hit anything. lol
I haven’t met that many “useless” LRF, most i see do rather well at killing things. The problem is they (many, not all) farm kills and don’t care about the objectives of the match. I’ve lost plenty of matches to those awsome snipers that just don’t care enough to win.
When i play my LRFs, i tend to spend most of my time gunning stuff down rather than sniping; i only snipe what i can’t reach otherwise.
You probably just don’t pay enough attention to the bottom of the list of players at the end of a match.
LRFs are typically either at the top or the very bottom, it kind of depends on the player piloting the thing.
Obviously they may do rather well in a Team Battle as opposed to anything to do with beacons.
When I was grinding my Tormentor, I would actually go after beacons with everybody else, but that’s an exception to the rule, especially in a 3vs3 T4 match.
I rather not have one-shot kills, there are already plenty of weapons that can 2-3 shot us in a matter of seconds depending on fits; frustrating enough as it is.
Then that’s a problem, isn’t it? For one, you are telling me that certain main weapons already do the job just fine, and the second is that you rather keep things the same than risk changing something. Sure the thing would hurt in the hands of a skilled player, but then again it would be an actual “sniper” weapon, as opposed to the semi-rapid-firing deal it is now, right? Obviously I’m not suggesting it should be able to 1-shot a T3-T5 Guard Frigate, but it should definitely be able to take out a large chunk of their shields and or hull IF the gun has a longer cooldown (like before, but balanced for even more alpha damage and lower DPS over-all). Fighters and inties should pop instantly in most cases, especially if the weapon fires as slowly as I am suggesting.
My suggestion is to force “sniper” LRF players to move around more by effectively removing their sniper module for the majority of the game. After that, the sniper module should actually be effective enough when it does work (with skill) to be worth activating. As-is, it’s just another “main weapon” in the game that encourages players to sit back at spawn.
My suggestion is to force “sniper” LRF players to move around more by effectively removing their sniper module for the majority of the game. After that, the sniper module should actually be effective enough when it does work (with skill) to be worth activating. As-is, it’s just another “main weapon” in the game that encourages players to sit back at spawn.
I think it would be much better if the long range module applied to the main/secondary weapon rather than be a weapon by itself. Having an artificial delay to it’s activation don’t seem like a good feature to me, would be an extra layer of complexity to deal with for the new players.
Edit: Better idea. Why not make the LRF weapons use cassettes like missiles? Get a few shots off and you need to wait for the reload (a minute or so); that should be enough to make them move around (or end up waiting doing nothing). That solution would make more sense in my opinion.
I think it would be much better if the long range module applied to the main/secondary weapon rather than be a weapon by itself. Having an artificial delay to it’s activation don’t seem like a good feature to me, would be an extra layer of complexity to deal with for the new players.
Edit: Better idea. Why not make the LRF weapons use cassettes like missiles? Get a few shots off and you need to wait for the reload (a minute or so); that should be enough to make them move around (or end up waiting doing nothing). That solution would make more sense in my opinion.
No, I’m saying the F module is already being used like a main weapon. It has nothing to do with “application,” I’m literally saying that the F module is used more than the main weapon by some LRF players, and that’s why they are sitting back at spawn… this thread is about preventing that.
I’m saying nerf the reload of the module, but buff the damage, while making sure to actually lower the DPS. This would make this a good alpha-strike weapon that could be used strategically to take-out targets that normally regen quickly or instantly in the case of smaller/faster ships (if you can hit). What’s “artificial” about it? They changed the reload and damage properties of the module before… is it more “natural” now that the LRF now fires the “F” module faster than before? I don’t get your point.
So, you would rather have a CASETTE to hit somebody multiple times really fast, instead of just the one shot? How is that any different than what I suggested, other than giving low-skill players an ability to plant at least 1 of X rounds as opposed to none at all? I was also thinking of a cooldown in the 1.5-2 minute range per ship-shredding shot. Something that would be saved for the right moment and carefully aimed, possibly at closer range (hence why I don’t think it needs to have an additional cooldown once you are in sniper mode… you should be able to fire right away, at least in the case of ELRFs, since the JLRF already does this).
We also already have cassette-based weapons, they are called missiles/torpedoes/etc. Changing the LRF module to that could work, although my main point was to make sure there is a long cooldown at the start of a match so that LRFs would have to move or look stupid just sitting there with no ability to fire, but then again it would not be that special of a module at that point as other things do the same thing already. I was also trying to suggest turning this thing into a real “sniper”-type class like in other games… powerful, but hard to master… yes, especially for new players who should probably be playing other ships to get the feel for the game, not just sitting in one spot on a map the entire match.
To be fair, maybe the cassette thing could work, I just think you are missing the main point of the long cooldown on the module that I am suggesting… and then re-balancing the weapon to that higher cooldown. The devs seem to have gone the exact opposite way with this, which has made the problem worse after that specific update.
No, I’m saying the F module is already being used like a main weapon. It has nothing to do with “application,” I’m literally saying that the F module is used more than the main weapon by some LRF players, and that’s why they are sitting back at spawn… this thread is about preventing that.
I’m saying nerf the reload of the module, but buff the damage, while making sure to actually lower the DPS. This would make this a good alpha-strike weapon that could be used strategically to take-out targets that normally regen quickly or instantly in the case of smaller/faster ships (if you can hit). What’s “artificial” about it? They changed the reload and damage properties of the module before… is it more “natural” now that the LRF now fires the “F” module faster than before? I don’t get your point.
Using the F module already gives you inferior DPS than using your main weapon, someone using his LRF as a gunship will do way more damage (but be at a lot more risk). I don’t like having to be wary of someone out of sight who can one hit me if i’m careless for a few seconds. I think the F module, at least for the empire does plenty of damage, and the Jerico one used (i’m told) to rule the skies before their damage got nerfed. We should not return to before their nerf.
So, you would rather have a CASETTE to hit somebody multiple times really fast, instead of just the one shot? How is that any different than what I suggested, other than giving low-skill players an ability to plant at least 1 of X rounds as opposed to none at all? I was also thinking of a cooldown in the 1.5-2 minute range per ship-shredding shot. Something that would be saved for the right moment and carefully aimed, possibly at closer range (hence why I don’t think it needs to have an additional cooldown once you are in sniper mode… you should be able to fire right away, at least in the case of ELRFs, since the JLRF already does this).
Having to mind how many shots you’ve got before a reload would force players to be more mindful of when they use their F module; right now they can just spam it for how long they want. Good LRF player would stay closer to the fight then if after a few long range shots they would need to close the range to keep hurting stuff.
We also already have cassette-based weapons, they are called missiles/torpedoes/etc. Changing the LRF module to that could work, although my main point was to make sure there is a long cooldown at the start of a match so that LRFs would have to move or look stupid just sitting there with no ability to fire, but then again it would not be that special of a module at that point as other things do the same thing already. I was also trying to suggest turning this thing into a real “sniper”-type class like in other games… powerful, but hard to master… yes, especially for new players who should probably be playing other ships to get the feel for the game, not just sitting in one spot on a map the entire match.
That’s exactly why i want them to be cassetes like weapons; we already know what effect they will have on gameplay. Having a long “charge up” time at the start of the match would seem artificial, everything else comes loaded at spawn. As for having one-hit wonder LRF weapons, the game used to have those according to some older players, they nerfed it because some players were just too good at blowing up less experienced players before they could do anything about it.
It’s funny because being one of these “older players” myself, I was in a T5 PvP match yesterday where my entire team (including me) were in LRF’s… my excuse was that I was trying to help my wife grind her Dragon.
I had the most kills in our little 4vs4 simply due to the fact that I was using my purple coils and sneaking around the map, while the rest of the team was practically useless trying to constantly spam their F module. I tried some long-range sniping and actually managed to finish-off an Engineer that was already low on shields and hull even though I missed him something like 6 times while he was zigging and zagging to try to get behind a rock… and then he popped, because I was just sitting there and rapid-firing on him with the Disintegrator. I also noticed that I was hitting for around 1.5 - 3K on most of the enemy team (obviously Guards taking the least amount of damage and fighters taking the most, if I could hit… I know I did not actually hit any inties, I’m just not that good), but my Disintegrator was only hitting for about 3-6K… obviously still enough to be dangerous, but also enough to keep me spamming the F key to finish-off that engi that did not know he had to hide. The rest of my team? Sitting at spawn on the other side of a fking flying mountain in space, trying to use the F key as their main weapon on ships with-in 5K range that would just pop-out, kill somebody, and then hide again before my team LRFs could actually finish them off.
End result? We tied because I had 7 kills, while the next one on my team had about 3 with less than half the effectiveness, the other 2, and the last with a whopping 0… and then we ran out of time because the enemy team was hiding most of the time, while ours was sitting near spawn instead of flying to them/getting into better position.
Case-in-point. Too much “sniper” mode is a bad thing for PvP… it’s not an issue in PvE either way, since most targets they are used against are typically stationary.
… and yes, I played the game when it was the other way around with greater damage and higher cool-down. It worked. The DPS was actually LOWER on the damn F key. They upped the DPS after the change, which only helped aces stay in Sniper mode that much longer, and why we are having this discussion now. My suggestion involves going the exact opposite direction and adding a cooldown at the start of the match, which would produce a single shot more powerful than even before (maybe doing up to 18K damage in T5, and scaled down for lower Tiers, similar to a Torpedo), but with significantly increased cooldown/decreased DPS so that people are flying their ships and not just sitting the entire match.
Basically, every other ship in the game revolves on supporting the ship as it flies around and does things: Guards need to fly with-in range of fire to take advantage of their shield ability, Tacklers need to be with-in range of a target to deploy their drones efficiently, all while the LRF seems to be the only case that encourages bad gameplay with the way the module functions (to sit and wait for somebody to come into your range).
My suggestion would:
1.) Greatly “encourage” players to move to a.) beacons, b.) better positions for sniping, c.) after the team to provide support fire instead of doing nothing for the first few minutes of a match.
2.) Still won’t force truly bad players from changing their play style… meaning that it’s still optional to play bad and options are “good,” right? >_>
3.) Would require players to ‘master’ the class to be good at it (a.k.a. get some “aiming skillz”… something I could use more of).
4.) Provide the LRF with a more discernible role, compared to other frigates, especially if implementing the primary weapon range buff I am suggesting… it would actually turn it into a true “long range” support platform not just the current “inadequate spawn point turret.”
I’m just saying that people play a game based on the mechanics. If a mechanic is encouraging bad gameplay, then change it, and change it again if the change makes it worse than before.
Slightly off-topic, but I think one of the reasons I am suggesting this is because I like big powerful guns in games. For example, in WoT I have all of the T10 Tank Destroyers, and my favorites are easily the ones that hit for upwards of 1-2K HP (which is a lot in that game where most tanks have 1.5-2.8K HP at that tier). I liked playing that style of ‘high risk/high reward’ by taking my big and slow Tank Destroyer to the optimal location and then 1-2 shotting the enemy before I could even be seen, and if spotted, I liked making the enemy nervous just by having my 152-183mm pointed in their direction. :006j: Obviously this also meant that if I missed and then had to wait for a minute or more for it to reload then I would be screwed as the other tanks would be firing on my position with less chance of my target getting destroyed in time to save my own hide, but hey it was different from every other tank play style in the game … I think we can have at least ONE class of ship in this game that can do that. I have no idea why they needed to make it rapid-fire just like everything else.
DON’T MAKE ME PLAY THE WAY YOU WANT!!!
LRFs ARE FINE AS THEY ARE AFTER NERFS(THOSE AFTER RELEASE)
*yes F module dmg were nerfed alot >> got little recharge time but still less dps*
Slightly off-topic, but I think one of the reasons I am suggesting this is because I like big powerful guns in games. For example, in WoT I have all of the T10 Tank Destroyers, and my favorites are easily the ones that hit for upwards of 1-2K HP (which is a lot in that game where most tanks have 1.5-2.8K HP at that tier). I liked playing that style of ‘high risk/high reward’ by taking my big and slow Tank Destroyer to the optimal location and then 1-2 shotting the enemy before I could even be seen, and if spotted, I liked making the enemy nervous just by having my 152-183mm pointed in their direction. :006j: Obviously this also meant that if I missed and then had to wait for a minute or more for it to reload then I would be screwed as the other tanks would be firing on my position with less chance of my target getting destroyed in time to save my own hide, but hey it was different from every other tank play style in the game … I think we can have at least ONE class of ship in this game that can do that. I have no idea why they needed to make it rapid-fire just like everything else.
You know how much players complain about TDs and Artillery in WOT; no one likes being one-shotted, especially by enemies they can’t do anything about (too far, too tough or out of sight). Big guns are always fun for the one using them, no so much about the ones on the receiving end. What is fun in this game is fast paced action, not cowering behind cover to avoid being blown up.
You know how much players complain about TDs and Artillery in WOT; no one likes being one-shotted, especially by enemies they can’t do anything about (too far, too tough or out of sight). Big guns are always fun for the one using them, no so much about the ones on the receiving end. What is fun in this game is fast paced action, not cowering behind cover to avoid being blown up.
Pretty much this.
Being on the receiving end of a 1-shot kill from full health is no fun at all, whereas being sniped and then being forced to keep your head down/ in cover for fear of the second shot can be fun. (Tillo has given me a lot of practise at this recently!)
Not being able to one shot things also means there is some thought needed as to who you target, rather than just popping everything that comes in sight.
If used well, LRFs in their current form can be devastating, and I really don’t agree with any calls to reverse the change towards the lower damage/shot with increased RoF
c’mon pilze… I didn’t even try
you’re complicating too much… just make it that all who stay withing 1000m of spawn for X amount of second to blow up… or when team members respawn they spawn in their butts and blow them up… send bio killsquad to take the spawn guard out… or put sudden gravity on it, let them faaaaaaaaaaalll 
So far i dont think the LFRs are useless.
The ship itself is fine, Empire and Jericho.
Its the player who uses it wrong…
Just because it has a sniper mode, doesnt mean that you need to use it all the time.
Sure, there are some maps where that works, stealth and snipe…but thats not everywhere.
In PVP, i have seen many players who dont want to use the primary weapon (atleast in T3 there were them, havnt seen them in T4 and T5 anymore)
LFR has 50% more guns than all the other Frigs, the RoF / DPS can be insane on them, atleast my Mauler (currently working on upgrading them to blue) has a RoF with the Mortar that looks like the Fighter Railguns…with more boomstuff…
LFR in close combat with a Guard is…well…dead. But thats why its called LFR. They have a very long range, so using that is a huge advantage.
My F Module is mostly used for hidden strikes, damaging a fighter who wants to capture a beacon, so that my team can finish them.
Finishing a highly damaged Inti when they want to escape
Or against Guards who use Kinetic as polarity, so that i can atleast damage him a bit before i die.
My common playstyle is based on mode and map.
Against the commander, i try to get in position to nuke him
In deathmatch i try to hide and support my team with damage or finishers
Beacon capture its either placing Minefields or floating in range of a beacon to rain fire on it as soon as someone wants to capture it.
But just floating in space or hiding behind a rock to steal some kills with a disintegrator or missile…that wouldnt work so well.
BUT: i actually like option 2 of that poll.
For Jericho, it might reward a direct hit with the missile more, if the damage would be increased in the “core” of the explosion (direct impact).
Currently my missiles deal around 7.5k everywhere, doesnt matter how far away the target is from the explosion, and 7.5k is not that much at T5…i can get that with 2-3 Mortar hits, so using that missile in a direct fight would be a dps decrease, not increase.
For Empire, it might also be rewarding. As far as i have seen they deal a lot more damage over a longer range (think 13k both), but hitting is a bit harder with them.
The damage is pretty nice here, also the range, sadly players use it just for that then. Why risking a potential death when they can shoot from far outside the battlefield?
They allready get the reward of easier hits the closer they are, so adding a damage boost there would be dangerous, it might end as a quickscope sniper then…
Why go to 2nd line of fight with LRF if enemy will come to you anyway with tacklers, CovOps or recon and try to kill you… even if 3 of your teammates are around