Useless LRFs

Ships
#1

Before I start, LRF is a great role, when used in the right hands. I am not saying the role itself is useless, I’m saying that many pilots who fly LRF become useless in the games they play in.

 

This is a problem I have been noticing for a while, but only in the past few weeks to month has it really become an issue. Too many players are using LRFs in a single match. I know the idea was suggested to limit the number of LRFs per game, but that is unfair, as it would prevent players from using a role they enjoy. I do wish, however, that players would learn to use the role in a lower tier (t1 or t2) before using it in an upper tier (t3+). Far too many players take an LRF into a game and sit in spawn, trying to hit people. This is a huge mis-use of the LRF. The LRF has great potential, both as a sniper and as a heavy gunship. My problem with the LRF is when 2-5 people take LRF in a game, but they have no clue how to use the ship, so they sit in spawn trying to shoot people with the sniper/torps (and most of the time failing). This essentially reduces their team’s total player count, as there are that many fewer players actually helping the team do objectives.

 

Some players are truly excellent with LRFs (Tillo and Aspari to name a couple).

 

My suggestions are that something be done to either force newbies to use LRF is a better way (a way that benefits the team more) or to encourage players to actually learn the role, instead of sit in the back missing every shot.

 

1.) Reduce resistances (by maybe 40-50 points) while the LRF is within a certain distance of spawn (maybe within 4k of spawn). This would encourage the LRF pilots to move away from spawn, and take up more tactical positions where they are actually useful.

 

2.) Change the special module to make it better the closer you get (to an extent). Making it do far more damage at close-range (4k-6k away) than it would do at long-range (9k-12k). This would encourage LRF pilots to be closer to the action, without being in the middle of it. This way, LRF pilots would be forced to use their primary weapons if enemies attack, instead of never having to worry about players killing them, since they are sitting in spawn.

 

3.) Give LRFs a bonus when they are within a certain proximity to teammates. (For example, a 5-10% damage increase when 2k away from at least 3 teammates). This would encourage the use of the heavy gunship mechanic of LRF, and encourage players to stick with their team and provide fire support.

 

I’m sure these options present certain balance issues or possible problems, but they are just a baseline to get started with. They could easily be modified to work.

 

Leave comments on other suggestions you may have.

#2

Option 4 - Remove their special and replace it with something that doesn’t encourage people to sit in spawn all match.

#3

Option 1 - Nope, they’re already so squishy, no need to make them weaker. And make them stay away even more.

Option 2 - Not a bad idea, just add comic sans.

Option 3 - It will just be used to peoples advantage, like people will start make groups of LRF to get the damage bonus.

Option 5 - Add comic sans to the game, remove ECM’s, problem solved.

#4

Yeah, most of these solutions don’t seem to have been thought through. They either encourage staying in spawn to avoid direct combat, or staying in spawn as an lrf ball to maximise damage, thereby making the problem worse.

#5

They are so easy to kill and their projectile are also easy to avoid if you keep your ship moving, they melt to my gauss cannon as well as my rails on either my command or my gunship. Were you killed by one of them and got your feeling hurt in the process ? :004j:

#6

They are so easy to kill and their projectile are also easy to avoid if you keep your ship moving, they melt to my gauss cannon as well as my rails on either my command or my gunship. Were you killed by one of them and got your feeling hurt in the process ? :004j:

Typical monostyle ignorance. Dodging in a Guard or Empire Engi is like tanking in an Eagle B.

And for the record, I rarely die to lrf. When I do it’s usually because I was stupid and strayed into mine range, or they snipe me when their allies have weakened me. So my issue with the lrf isn’t from dying to them; it’s the fact that most lrf may as well have disconnected for all the good they do on my team. I suspect the OP is in the same boat.

#7

Typical monostyle ignorance. Dodging in a Guard or Empire Engi is like tanking in an Eagle B.

And for the record, I rarely die to lrf. When I do it’s usually because I was stupid and strayed into mine range, or they snipe me when their allies have weakened me. So my issue with the lrf isn’t from dying to them; it’s the fact that most lrf may as well have disconnected for all the good they do on my team. I suspect the OP is in the same boat.

 

Monostyle ignorance ? I just said command and gunship, how is this monostyle ? They both play very diffrently. Beside, if your dying to LRF in an engi or a Guard, you should consider rethinking your positioning. I dont want to fight with you over something you should already know, I wont reply to further comment from you. Also, I didnt quote you so my comment was directed at OP and not you.

#8

They are so easy to kill and their projectile are also easy to avoid if you keep your ship moving, they melt to my gauss cannon as well as my rails on either my command or my gunship. Were you killed by one of them and got your feeling hurt in the process ? :004j:

 

 If you notice he doesnt cry about power of lrf , he’s talking  about uselessness  ofc it is easy the kill  siting lrf when they are in your gun range what ever type your ship is.

 

so

1-) This the best idea for spawncamp lrf’s , so no.

 

2-) they have a great instrument for optimal distances : GUNS , they do more damage  than special modules. better one on short range : mines!!

 

3-)  you sure this will change spawn siting? while you  die on front line alone , each respawn you will give damage bonus to spawn sitters so this may encourage them to sit there more maybe?

 

4-) like what? the ship description is long range you cant switch with short range module.

 

5-) (new)  we know problem  is player based, there is nothing wrong with game mechanics.  Instead of changing mechanics best way to fix is educating players … what am i saying lol it is impossible!! :stuck_out_tongue: so return to game mechanics ; 

__how about we add gravity to pvp maps?__

lets say all ships pull to center per 10 speed , you base speed is 240  , if you are going to center your speed is 250 , if you fall back to spawn your speed 230.  If you siting with lrf ok than 2 mn later you will be on the front line ,

#9

I say we turn mains in to FaF missile with massive damage for Jerry and a hip-fire disint for Empire. Just keep everything else the same.

#10

option 6 - LRF within 2km of spawn after 1min become targetable and killable by its teammates… too cruel?

option 7 - LRF within 2km of spawn after 1min will be swarmed by bios

#11

option 6 - LRF within 2km of spawn after 1min become targetable and killable by its teammates… too cruel?

option 7 - LRF within 2km of spawn after 1min will be swarmed by bios

i think option 7 would be a fantastic battlefield sight.

 

Both sides stop fighting, look over at the spawn and watch the LRF ball be melted by bios before they go back to their home

#12

New Mechanic for a combi u-gotta-move-son module.

 

Supercharges primary Long Range Module if above 50% max speed or dealing damage. The module has a chargeup, which means, it gets only ready once you have either flown a while or dealt some damage with your primary weapons to any enemy, and with some, i mean quite a bit, so you really have to use the ship.

 

Supercharged shot deals more damage, and is ready as soon as the module is activated; the next shot allows a quickscope snipe (less warmup time for 8 seconds / faster missile speed), but doubles the next sniper cooldown period.

 

Supercharge expires if not activated for 45 seconds. You have to either move or hit enemies again to recharge it.

#13

There are so many bloody threads about this its making me mad. What we need is to rename the class, not change the game mechanics. Long Range implies sniper. The only thing capable of sniping are the Special Modules, therefore people simply use the module to snipe, thinking it is its role. It is not! I already explained this in another thread.

 

[http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/25502-lrf-un-nerfs-needed/page-2](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/25502-lrf-un-nerfs-needed/page-2)

 

No doubt i am not credible, but i started playing LRF as a sniper, simply because i read the description and the class name. Do any of you realise that there is no class name that has its role name connected to its Special Module? ( There is no class in the game other than LRF which has its role name defined by its Special Module)

 

When you read the name “Long Range”, the only reason it has this silly name is simply because of the special modules they have. This makes players think you need the Special modules to be effective which is completely not the case. I started playing LRF as a useless sniper. It was only when i decided to play it like an engy frig then i realised the potential it has. Ever since then, i have not gone back to my old style of play.

 

All special modules in the game are designed to supplement the ships role. This includes the LRF special modules. The current name of Long Range as a ship role class is stupid silly and misleading. What we need is something like Heavy Weapons Platform or Heavy Gunship. Any name that does not make the players think this ship is a sniper is perfectly fine. The last thing i want to see from this game is to see the Long Range Frigate class taken away and bear in mind they are NOT useless.

 

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#14

(There is no class in the game other than LRF which has its role name defined by its Special Module)

Try Gunship Overdrive.

 

but if I’m gonna be really picky, disintergrator sounds like an expolsive and guided torpedo sounds like the space tomahawk missile, neither being some kind of long range weapon until you read into it.

 

I don’t think the ships are defined by special module, special module is probably defined by ship class and what it’s designed to be used for. Overdrive, Cloaker, Diffusion Shield for Gun, Tackler and Command etc, they’re all relevant modules. It’s not like someone put a microwarp engine on an Inquisitor. (Which i’d love to see).

 

Renaming the class won’t work, people will just see an LRF under a different name and still sit at spawn and snipe with it. I’m going for the biomorph approach as mentioned above. Would be a suitable deterrent.

#15

All special modules in the game are designed to supplement the ships role. This includes the LRF special modules. The current name of Long Range as a ship role class is stupid silly and misleading. What we need is something like Heavy Weapons Platform or Heavy Gunship. Any name that does not make the players think this ship is a sniper is perfectly fine. The last thing i want to see from this game is to see the Long Range Frigate class taken away and bear in mind they are NOT useless.

Another thing, LRF’s are snipers. That is their role. Snipers or long-range splash damage dealers. You can’t make a LRF into a gunship because, let’s face it, they can’t really take much of a beating, especially not jericho lrf’s. That’s why the reverse thruster was implemented. If you do change the class, you have to tweak the ships which means people then no longer have a long range frigate, which is extremely useful in some circumstances, taking out turrets without drawing fire etc. They’ll just have a big lump of metal that they have no clue how to use because it’s all changed.

#16

Just change the name… Not the mechanics.

#17

Just change the name… Not the mechanics.

changing the name doesn’t do much though because they’ll still be long range, it’s like getting a corvette c1 and calling it a pagani, it doesn’t work because it’s clearly still a c1 corvette

#18

Another thing, LRF’s are snipers. That is their role. Snipers or long-range splash damage dealers. You can’t make a LRF into a gunship because, let’s face it, they can’t really take much of a beating, especially not jericho lrf’s. That’s why the reverse thruster was implemented. If you do change the class, you have to tweak the ships which means people then no longer have a long range frigate, which is extremely useful in some circumstances, taking out turrets without drawing fire etc. They’ll just have a big lump of metal that they have no clue how to use because it’s all changed.

Earlier versions of the LRF made them very good gunships indeed.

 

The problem boils down entirely to the F-module. The reason the LRF was nerfed to paper-thin armour status is because they were sniping and using RT + EM + Mines to make themselves invisible and invincible. ELRF in particular could, when built right, outtank Guards.

 

Yet even with the nerf, the core problem remains; the F-module. People still sit back and snipe, achieving nothing of value, when we really need them up front and doing something.

 

That doesn’t mean there isn’t a time and place for sniping. During detonation missions I’m currently trying out a new tactic of swapping to LRF and camping on our last beacon, using mines to deter planters and the disintegrator to lend long-range support. And that’s useful. When a mission requires you to defend a position, defend it. But no mission requires you to defend the spawn point. No mission requires you to snipe asteroids. Yet this is still the most common past-time for LRF pilots. THAT is what we want to change, but it will NEVER change as long as the class is fundamentally broken, with a fundamentally broken F-module.

#19

Earlier versions of the LRF made them very good gunships indeed.

 

The problem boils down entirely to the F-module. The reason the LRF was nerfed to paper-thin armour status is because they were sniping and using RT + EM + Mines to make themselves invisible and invincible. ELRF in particular could, when built right, outtank Guards.

 

Yet even with the nerf, the core problem remains; the F-module. People still sit back and snipe, achieving nothing of value, when we really need them up front and doing something.

 

That doesn’t mean there isn’t a time and place for sniping. During detonation missions I’m currently trying out a new tactic of swapping to LRF and camping on our last beacon, using mines to deter planters and the disintegrator to lend long-range support. And that’s useful. When a mission requires you to defend a position, defend it. But no mission requires you to defend the spawn point. No mission requires you to snipe asteroids. Yet this is still the most common past-time for LRF pilots. THAT is what we want to change, but it will NEVER change as long as the class is fundamentally broken, with a fundamentally broken F-module.

the problem then comes in how to make the LRF not useful for those that sit there and shoot asteroids but remain servicable for those who use it correctly. I’ve seen how good they can be in detonation guarding beacons, nothing can get near because of the long range weapons so 1.) the armor never gets much of a hit and 2.) they do perform as gunships, but it still stands that they could be sneezed on and they would do the explodey business

 

If you’re gonna change the core module, what about tier? i’m sure changing it on tier could be done, to discourage spawn camping early on then unlock the full potential of the disintergrator/torpedo later

 

or perhaps a more direct approach - a radius around spawn that (sorry if already mentioned) after a set amount of time stops your disintergrators or torpedoes firing, better still, the anomaly generator effect comes up and you’re killed

 

I think the RT module got given a decent nerf, i think it used to be instant, but now with the -50pts on everything and the 2 second charge up - it’s become a liability to use it under heavy fire where you need the extra resistance

 

EDIT: Lrf mines have recently become a huge problem to me due to the nerf on curved reflectors, expecially with my inties, i’m having to switch over to plasma and loose DPS, but it does now have the advantage that I deal plasma, thermal and kinetic all at once.

#20

there has to be some way to nerf the cannon or torpedo without affecting the people who use it properly