The unbreakable Tharga, broken down.

[4874076]

A response to the multiple nerf discussions that have arisen regarding the alien ship.

As short as can be made a run down of all the ways an R15 tharga is better than every other ship in the tree. Free promotion!

*Deep breath* here we go 

Passive modules

Engine

‘Alien’ cruise engine, vernier, strafe, teleport and a ‘passive’ engine improvement.

Every module on the list has better stats than its regular ship counterpart. No engine cooler however the ship upgrade wheel has two options for weapon cooling without the trouble of sacrificing an engine slot. Also it can teleport.

 

Capacitor

Mini pulsar and additional 9k zero resistance emergency barrier shield.

 

Shield

Combat/static shield regenerator

Engineer level healing for usually around half your shield volume, more depending on the situation. Keeps working the more/less you are in the fight.

 

Hull

Adaptive membrane

Same as adaptive shield only works for the hull. Those who say the tharga is not tanky are probably not factoring this module into their observations. Think galvanised without the rotation malus.

Matter absorber

Heals when diving at and killing enemy ships

 

CPU

Matter transformer

Kills gives a damage boost.

Predator instinct

Moving gives a damage boost.

 

Active Modules

Alien Intuition

60-75% extra damage briefly. Not much need to lock a destroyer, frigate or static ship with that added. Target scrambling is not really a debuff.

Inhibitor swarm

Sick of ships doing all that pesky manoeuvring? Point lazily and fire. Does EM damage too.

Missile reload

Add this with crew implant, pylons and/or reload upgrade on the wheel, select doomsdays or firestorm. Missile fighter!

Crystal drone

16 seconds of independent autofire with more power and range than the tackler drone.

Special modules

Gunship special with healing, different types of extra damage with different healing mechanics.

 

Better, just better in every way.

For the real horror, one must look at the ‘wheel’

 

Many players have commented on the larger amount of passives module slots available.

This is a red herring. Lots of passives do not mean all powerful in fact if anything it shows an inefficient build. The 3rd passive slot in each instance costs the most ‘points’ to add (110).

Given that the maximum is 1300 points then trying to make a 33333 tharga is not really efficient considering that the potential is so much greater.

Certain nodes stand out

Many are better than the ships which have that as a bonus, do not count toward one of the traditional 4/5 ship bonuses and in some cases not available on any other gunship.

Additionally things like this.

Frees up the use of a passive slot or two for use/abuse or to ignore completely (more points available for bonuses)

So the previously unthinkable can happen, things like this are really easy to throw together.

All on one fitting.

So damage, a certain carelessness with energy absorption/management and speed!

This is one example, there are dozens of things like this when combining crew settings, nodes and passives that just would not work on any other ship. Also not apparent to the outside observer as it relies on the use of regular ship components and crew settings, no fancy beams, auras or health bars to point at as the problem.

Wait a second… needs more damage.

Regular manufacturing style ship bonuses can be chosen too, one for offence and one defence, many of which have better numbers than any other manufactured ship bonuses.

That about covers it, lots of ways to make the ship the apex of what its being built for or a jack of all trades.

 

Players really want to discuss nerfing this abomination, taking it one module, weapon and node at a time?

 

We’d be here all year trying to find a middle ground on this ship alone. Not going to happen to anyones satisfaction fast enough if ever and some more green excrement to come.

When looking at what is presented here not one single discussion of nerfing has made any sense. The discussion should have began by understanding wtf we dealing with. Module x and weapon y are not the issue, its the whole thing. Soon as the squeeze gets put on one area then another will be the new boil needing lanced.

Evolution apparently.

 

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Weapon type bonuses are also better. Normally it increases projectile speed and reduces spread by 33%, tharga does that by 50% and 40% respectively. Why?

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They should completely halt their intended production of Ellydium ships and their mechanics, take a deep breath and really think why is there so much negativity. It’s justified!

Ellydium ships, 10 of them, 9 regular classes and 1 destroyer will present a challenge to the balance. That’s for sure. Major tweaks will be needed and are needed right now!

 

They can either make the old ships better, which I am against it.

or:

They can significantly lower the costs and benefits for Ellydium nodes, making them easier to acquire and more balanced, reducing their potential to acceptable levels.

[8842968]

Thanks very much. See this is my problem, now that so much content is hidden behind a paywall, I can’t access this information and have no idea how to counter it. All I can say is what I feel fighting against these monstrosities, and I can tell you they are broken, but I also can’t suggest any changes because I have no idea how they work. I wish the devs would just play their own game sometimes and see the matches where 50% of each team are in guards/thar’gas/previously destroyers. It’s not healthy to have so much hype around OP new content like this.

[18111780]

One of the issues I often see when talking about the Thar’ga is that it has to be “more powerful yes, but not OP compared to standard ships”.

Why exactly does it have to be better then regular ships? Can’t the alien modules it unlocks be the big reward? Does it HAVE to be better then everything else that flies?

 

[3229917]

Milf stopped playing a week ago, some serious Thar’ga re-balance need to be done by devs. 

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1 hour ago, Knight_ldr said:

One of the issues I often see when talking about the Thar’ga is that it has to be “more powerful yes, but not OP compared to standard ships”.

Why exactly does it have to be better then regular ships? Can’t the alien modules it unlocks be the big reward? Does it HAVE to be better then everything else that flies?

 

Yes. It does.

 

Why does mk4 items are better then mk1 (and by A LOT) ? Because you grinded for them.

Standard ships are mk1.

Special ships are mk2, they are slightly better then standard ships but requires some crafting.

Ellydiums ships are mk3. They requires even more crafting, and are better then special ships.

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56 minutes ago, Swifter43021 said:

Yes. It does.

 

Why does mk4 items are better then mk1 (and by A LOT) ? Because you grinded for them.

Standard ships are mk1.

Special ships are mk2, they are slightly better then standard ships but requires some crafting.

Ellydiums ships are mk3. They requires even more crafting, and are better then special ships.

… God I hope that’s not the “logic” (for lack of a better word) here, because that would be very, very stupid of the devs.

 

“We have 4 factions in this game, except one of them will always be superior to the other 3, by design”

 

You can’t have a multi faction game and have one faction superior in every possible way to the others right? How do you balance such a nightmare?

 

Oh wait, War Thunder where everything Russian is OP…

 

I get it! Ellydium is space Russia!

 

 

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1 hour ago, Swifter43021 said:

Yes. It does.

 

Why does mk4 items are better then mk1 (and by A LOT) ? Because you grinded for them.

Standard ships are mk1.

Special ships are mk2, they are slightly better then standard ships but requires some crafting.

Ellydiums ships are mk3. They requires even more crafting, and are better then special ships.

This isn’t grind though. This is wallet-warrioring.

Balance is essential, even if you need to grind for it. By your logic, I should be able to play against rank 1 ships with my rank 15 ships, just because I grinded for them…

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IDK how to respond on all these Tharga topics, the thing is the ellydium faction is a mixture of all factions afaik so therefore it has everything others have at some extent. The monetization can be done better i agree but we have what we have atm and it’s largely affected on the playerbases behavior in terms of buying stuff sooo “we” kinda brought it on ourselves and good luck trying to convince all those big spenders to not spend their money on something. 

I see it like this, I have to wait for a while until all the ships/factions features are cut down just right so it’s not a game breaker in the hands of “pro” players, since in anyone else’s it’s just a ship and barely a threat. So far i’d like to think they did a semi-good job balancing the features so they are usable by the less skilled people just enough to spark interest in a content they are providing and not a break-balance thing in the hands of highly skilled players.

It still has a long way to go, i expect it to last just like the destroyer event last year and all the balancing, nearly a year later and all is “FINE” now lol. (the “fine” part is highly debatable lol)

[3354571]

I f*cking hate that shi(t)p

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57 minutes ago, millanbel said:

This isn’t grind though. This is wallet-warrioring.

Balance is essential, even if you need to grind for it. By your logic, I should be able to play against rank 1 ships with my rank 15 ships, just because I grinded for them…

I’m not saying you should be able to stomp on anything with ellydium ships.

Thar ga is clearly too powerful.

 

What I’m saying is that ellydiums needs to be slightly more powerful then special ships. Exactly like special ships are slightly more powerful then standard.

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49 minutes ago, Swifter43021 said:

I’m not saying you should be able to stomp on anything with ellydium ships.

Thar ga is clearly too powerful.

 

What I’m saying is that ellydiums needs to be slightly more powerful then special ships. Exactly like special ships are slightly more powerful then standard.

Why though? They are already gunships with so many different functionalities. They should have to sacrifice damage/tank in order to get all these special modules. Instead they get all the special modules AND damage AND tank. It’s basically destroyers all over again.

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1 hour ago, QACinnamonTroll said:

I f*cking hate that shi(t)p

That just about sums it up ”)

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27 minutes ago, millanbel said:

Why though? They are already gunships with so many different functionalities. They should have to sacrifice damage/tank in order to get all these special modules. Instead they get all the special modules AND damage AND tank. It’s basically destroyers all over again.

I’d prefer the standard Overdrive over Thar ga’s crystal hunger.

Beside the OP Combat reconstructor (heal by 75 % of the damages received, how stupid is that ?) which will obviously get reworked, Thar ga’s special are quite “Meh”.

 

 

The problem is that,  Thar ga have maluses > Self damage, and reduced heal.

So it needs  to have strong points to compensate these.

 

Fact is that right now we have 3 OP stuff :

• Thar Kth > One shot everything

• Combat reconstructor > The hell is that instant full heal ?

• Combat shield > up to 1k shield regen per second on a ship that have 6k shield really ?

 

Once these 3 are nerfed, thar ga will be pretty average (The heal malus + self damage is a bit harsh).

[3487991]

You also get heals when a teammate dies within the radius, as far as i saw. Pretty ridonculous.

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8 minutes ago, Oregyen said:

You also get heals when a teammate dies within the radius, as far as i saw. Pretty ridonculous.

Yeah matter absorber is a “If a ship die” instead of “If an enemy die”.

 

BTW they could have nerfed it by forcing assist/kills on matter absorber to proc the heal instead of heavily reducing the range.

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29 minutes ago, Swifter43021 said:

Yeah matter absorber is a “If a ship die” instead of “If an enemy die”.

 

BTW they could have nerfed it by forcing assist/kills on matter absorber to proc the heal instead of heavily reducing the range.

Current matter absorber is in terrible iteration, it will be re-adjusted further soon

[35982003]

Thar’ga… thar’ga… thar’ga !!!.. it’s just like the “R9” armor in the game “perfect world”… pay a lot (maybe 1200 euros) or grind/farm 1 year and you will be a monster (and lot of fun !!!)… massive kills AOE, unkillable in the goods hands etc… and i can say you, there are lot of R9 players in this game. The problem now is : PVP are just between R9 players… sad. Sc just seems to follow the same “schema” : pay and you will have “lot of fun”… why nerf the ship which brings money ? Balance ?? lol ! With thar’ga you just play another game : invaders ! That’s all ^^… just kidding ”)

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17 hours ago, millanbel said:

This isn’t grind though. This is wallet-warrioring.

Singling out wallet warriors is silly atm, have to pick on the sir grind-a-lots as well.

A massive wall of grind yes, gargantuan even. But I would expect nothing else from such a large addition to content. Especially since many players have ‘everything’. Given how powerful they are the game would be entirely more tharga run if they all had instant access to that.

 

17 hours ago, ORCA1911 said:

It still has a long way to go, i expect it to last just like the destroyer event last year and all the balancing, nearly a year later and all is “FINE” now lol. (the “fine” part is highly debatable lol)

I memba destroyers too, when the only counter was another destroyer, thargas counter other thargas. Or focus and… teamwork   . This is much the same, small token nerfs here and there which don’t address any real issue.

 

15 hours ago, Swifter43021 said:

So it needs  to have strong points to compensate these.

Fact is that right now we have 3 OP stuff :

• Thar Kth > One shot everything

• Combat reconstructor > The hell is that instant full heal ?

• Combat shield > up to 1k shield regen per second on a ship that have 6k shield really ?

Once these 3 are nerfed, thar ga will be pretty average (The heal malus + self damage is a bit harsh).

Tharkth - Its the thargas innate strengths which make it so brutally effective(damage boosts, speed), try a piranha b2 and 1-2 shot an engy with it, you’ll struggle as though the weapon is a t’lith beam… Ok maybe an exaggeration but not by much. No trouble? Terrible frig.

Combat reconstructor - Came a long way with recent nerfs. It might not seem it but activation kills your hull and there is a small delay from damage to healing. Also most use requires reboot activation, which can make you really vulernable. Its really the most effective by how many nabs you have shooting/autofiring at you as the average player know by now to 1-2 power shot the green orb tharga or stop firing at it. It is fairly common for some players to get in their own/teams way, this to me is just a new way of them doing that.

Combat shield - 1k a second!? No, you are exaggerating now, maybe with 3 mk4. But 3 shield slots with no resistance is a very weak tharga build, other areas of it will suffer greatly. Never seen one, probably cause it sploded.

Nerfing these does not make it average, not even a little. This is just what you are having an issue with. Which is different from actually balancing it.

I agree that it does need strong points to counteract reduced healing and self damage, but things like reconstructor will quickly become useless if its reduced too much. Which is fine to simply say ‘GOOD’. But ill bet the QQ would turn to lesser used special modules soon after.

 

2 hours ago, wolfkyler said:

Thar’ga… thar’ga… thar’ga !!!.. it’s just like the “R9” armor in the game “perfect world”… pay a lot (maybe 1200 euros) or grind/farm 1 year and you will be a monster (and lot of fun !!!)… massive kills AOE, unkillable in the goods hands etc… and i can say you, there are lot of R9 players in this game. The problem now is : PVP are just between R9 players… sad. Sc just seems to follow the same “schema” : pay and you will have “lot of fun”… why nerf the ship which brings money ? Balance ?? lol ! With thar’ga you just play another game : invaders ! That’s all ^^… just kidding ”)

I’m not against this ship being in r9 tbh, kinda like the old days in game where players could get better there or they would fail constantly to kill squads and never grace the higher tiers with their terrible play. They are not half the monster they are in R15. Lots of options to deal with them and they do not have access to a lot of crazy fitting/implant combos.

I don’t think this ship will ever be brought close to in line with the others without 1st a upgrade wide reassessment of every node on the wheel and the points system in general

 

9 hours ago, MightyHoot said:

tbh I love to play beacon games in T5. Some dessie throws blackhole at b@con > all guards are clustered in blackhole > both team tharga swarms come > lot’s of beautiful explosions happen > thargas with EB survive > go to next b@con > repeat

Its bad I know but I actually like what this ship has done to pvp, but probably only as I have one. Games have been pulled out of the static trance things have been in for a year when destroyers were the concern.

Maybe its not so bad, its a gunship after all. It should be strong. I’m certain that when some ppls favourite class comes along (Lrf tillo? ) that they are hoarding for they will be oddly silent when it comes to a nerf discussion. Only issue for me is the actual balance, as why pick any other faction right now other than elly. Green stuffs all the way.