I feel it’s time to see if this change to squadplay was the right choice or that other people agree with me that this change should be undone.
Squadplay is officialy dead. Leauges is for the select few that dont get bored easy by long waiting times, absurd times, beacon rushers, repetitive game mods.
You took away the most important part of this game just because some people were whining about so called ‘kill squads’?
Havent seen those (squads) in a year, never bothered me, made me want to squad up to beat them.
The n o o b s get destroyed by 2 man squads and single players now in T2. Fixed nothing, created a problem…
So now I want to know, am I the only one thinking this?
It’s not just abstract whining, it was a real problem.
Also, there are other complications such a problem with a queue and waiting time.
But I admit that leagues require some tweaks.
Back then we had the problems with squads, yet we have an complete unbalanced game. Letting 2 guys with only full leveled secret project ships fighting 2 guys with ships that needs to be lvld and with equipment that still needs to upgraded, is not balanced.
I think the devs made a hasty decision for squadplay. To compare this to a disease: the devs found a medicine instead of a cure. It helps alleviate some of the symptoms associated with this disease, but not all of them. And the medicine also comes with side effects of its own. All this, instead of going to the root of the disease and finding a cure.
I cannot stress this enough, you CANNOT remove casual squadplay from a team-based game. Doing so undoes the very fabric that tjhis game is made of. I will concede that the 4-man “kill squads” were an issue, but did you ever think to look at why, or look at what caused them to exist in the first place? A number of things could be blamed. The biggest ones to me were the following:
-No incentive to play high-tier pvp. The only high-tier incentives were sector conquest, which was at very specific times, but didn’t spark any interest in playing high-tier pvp outside of that.
-Squadplay was extremely hard to do. It was next to impossible to squad up outside of T3 for the longest time for the simple reason that no one did it. This problem was fixed (bugs with the test aside) when +1/-1 squadding was fully implemented for testing on the client (2-man squads didn’t need a squad on the other team to get a game). When this was tested over the summer, there were more squads in pvp than I had ever seen before. Why this was never reimplemented after it was taken down to fix the bugs, I don’t know, but it really did fix most, if not all the issues with squadding. It gave vets a reason to play T5: they could get games as a squad. It made it harder for newb squads to face kill squads (more squads in queue=more chance that a kill squad will face another kill squad). This also greatly reduced queue times, as there would always be squads in the queue, so you wouldn’t have to wait long.
Leagues only do so much to give people a place to enjoy organized teamwork. 4v4 CTB at very few times of the day isn’t the greatest way of going about replacing squadding. If the intention was indeed to replace squadding, Leagues should be offered 24/7. Sure you will have lulls where very few are playing, but at least there would always be some place for people to enjoy this.
The kill squads were so popular in T3 because that is were squads actually happened. But if you make squadding easier in higher tiers and give more incentive to play high tiers, you will see less kill squads in T2/3.
I understand what the problem is and i also can understand it somewhere why you guys or doing this. but i think this is the wrong way to do it. if you wanne split up the new commers from the advanced players then indd make the league battles. but please pritty please and i’v never begged but damn please. open the league battles 24 - 7 on 7. its a greate idea !! very nice concept. but i have a real life 2 and i cant dedicate me to fixed times. now iv accepted it on dread’s because my personal opinion is it whas a failed project… they shud be flyable… but hey im not starting that conversation again. personaly i agrea you shud devide the new commers from the “Vets” theres no fun for them in getting your a*s** Kickt every time , and you dont learn anything of it. but please find a more suitable way to do this…
I even wanne orginize a meeting on the official SC Teamspeak 3 server. with the Stargem team.and members of the regular public… and lets all speak about this and come up together with a massive plan.
Truely again this is a amazing lovable game. I truly mean this. but if we keep on going into this direction then im leaving the game aswell. i didnt max out 2 corporations.
For only beeing capable to squad up with 1 guy. and then we come to this point aswell. when ever we invite newcommers to the corp. we cant teach them anything anymore because squading up is imposible atm . when ever i enter Q with a low ranked guy. we always end up in unfair matches like im in T2 together with the dude and end up ATM VS “Formar T4”. this is no fun.
So there for i think the meeting is needed with everyone who’s intrested from the public aswell as StarGem. Some of you guys shud be there 2. One guy shud recorde the whole conversation to come back to missed ideas. and the other StarGem member shud be there to speak to us in if its posible with what where comming up or not… !! Poste a +1 or a -1 if you think this is needed…
I understand that these changes regarding pvp-squadplay restrictions as well as the implementation of the new ranking system serve a certain “purpose” or rather, is an attempt to fix some problems this game have suffered for some time now. But still, I think the current system or mechanics is not ideal. But that is my opinion, I can do nothing more than voice it. I know the forum has been very negative lately, but no, it is not a simple “trend”; people are upset for a reason but then again, it’s not our game, we can only speak our minds and hope for change in the desired direction, for the power is not really in our hands. I don’t want to spew poison or hatred, still I wish things were better than it is right now, for I know after playing a very long time, and daily too - that this game has been better. But then again, Better for me - maybe worse for new players I dont know, all I know is, that I have been playing T3, T4, T5 every day since January and that this game has had it’s ups and downs, but I truly enjoyed this summer’s experiment - when Devs eased up the restrictions for squadplay and I remember as Dirk says, I was astonished by the amount of different squads we battled, not like now when you pretty much face the same people again and again, but it was more of a flow, fast queue, good games, wins and losses both of course but it was much more dynamic too. I miss that. Maybe more people squadded up - since it was easy to get a game thanks to less restriciton, maybe there were more people playing, anyway, it was a great fun.
Whilst I understand wanting to do something about the occasional highly organised squad easily beating teams of randoms in PVP, the new changes go too far the other way to fix a niche problem. The new system actually discourages playing with friends. League matches, whilst an excellent idea as they reinstate classic sector conquest type matches, aren’t a real alternative due to the time/ship rank restrictions. And as DarthDirk mentioned, you can no longer have a casual PVP match with a group of friends, as the league matches very hardcore and often far from relaxing in the challenge they pose.
Having recently introduced a friend to the game, we found on several occasions it was impossible to get a PVP match at rank 1-3 as a 2 man squad, forcing us to queue separately and ending with the matchmaker putting us on opposite teams three times on the trot. Needless, to say this did not create a good first impression of the game (this is whilst also ignoring the bizzare design decisions that the devs have put against new players, such has not having access to crew implants until rank 4 for example).
Bring back the old matchmaker system or make it take into account how many wins a squad has had (or how much a squad has won its previous match by) and THEN start restricting who that squad is matched against if necessary.
It’s not just abstract whining, it was a real problem.
Also, there are other complications such a problem with a queue and waiting time.
But I admit that leagues require some tweaks.
I want to believe it was an actual problem, certainly for the new players but this is overkill. Also following your reasoning squadplay should still be possible in T4 and T5, seeing you declared T1-T3 the n o o b tiers and T4-T5 for the more experienced pilots. Leauges in my opinion is not ready to just ‘take’ the place of one of the most important aspect of this game. It is what this game made fun, and no it isnt pve and also not open space. Only a certain type of pilot can find joy in those but even those people will get bored doing the same thing over and over again.
In my opinon you should have introduced leauges without removing squads. You could have phased out squads when leauges was a big succes or when all vets and kill squads were just doing leauges instead of trolling T2. Flying with only 2 people is not interesting. Leauges is at unconvenient times and is getting abused by Recon squads with Doomsday missiles.
The queue and waiting times is population and MM related; as already said, advertise, inovate, make squadplay possible again,… and more people will show up. Also already mentioned; make squading against +1/-1 player groups possible again and queue times will again decrease. You ll have the strong squads again, but 1 off your player tips is still showing; “a squad is an almost unstoppable force”. But i think their are ways to counter this, other things that can be done to balance this out.
I want to believe it was an actual problem, certainly for the new players but this is overkill. Also following your reasoning squadplay should still be possible in T4 and T5, seeing you declared T1-T3 the n o o b tiers and T4-T5 for the more experienced pilots. Leauges in my opinion is not ready to just ‘take’ the place of one of the most important aspect of this game. It is what this game made fun, and no it isnt pve and also not open space. Only a certain type of pilot can find joy in those but even those people will get bored doing the same thing over and over again.
In my opinon you should have introduced leauges without removing squads. You could have phased out squads when leauges was a big succes or when all vets and kill squads were just doing leauges instead of trolling T2. Flying with only 2 people is not interesting. Leauges is at unconvenient times and is getting abused by Recon squads with Doomsday missiles.
The queue and waiting times is population and MM related; as already said, advertise, inovate, make squadplay possible again,… and more people will show up. Also already mentioned; make squading against +1/-1 player groups possible again and queue times will again decrease. You ll have the strong squads again, but 1 off your player tips is still showing; “a squad is an almost unstoppable force”. But i think their are ways to counter this, other things that can be done to balance this out.
Well stated.
You know the devs though, always following the mantra “nothing in moderation until it is no longer an issue”.
They always go from one extreme to the other, never settling on a viable solution until everyone has either stopped caring or forgotten about the issue. It happens with balance, it happens with mechanic changes, really with everything.
Plus, one would think that facing squads or being squashed by a killsquad in PVP would motivate you to gather a squad yourself to hunt them down.
But if no0bs got stomped by killersquads, that should imply that MM is broken since a squad of no0bs shouldnt be paired against a killsquad, no? So the only reason why these face eachother in the first place must be:
1)MM is broken, 2)Playerbase is low - since otherwise chance is big you would face other squads in your own caliber.
I’m slowly losing interest with the game atm, having to play solo with pugs that have no idea with what they are doing (T4 and T5!!!) gets boring fast.
4v4 Leagues is something but, atm it’s boring, plus being only able to play at certain times doesn’t always suit when i’m on.
If you’re protecting the newbies from kill squads then at least you should protect the seasoned players from the clueless tier rushers.
I only enjoy this game when I’m playing with friends. I can’t do that with squads at the moment, but at least I can hang out on teamspeak and in the LAIR afterparty. The former gives me a social component even if they aren’t in my game or on my team. The latter ensures we get good ping, which leads to far more enjoyable games.
That’s not the case for the other 99% of the population. Right now, they’re screwed.
I thank the devs who have pushed for increased transparency as of recently. The trend is improving somewhat and many of us who would otherwise have left are sticking around as a result. Keep that up.
I hope the solutions come soon and that you bring them up with us ahead of time so we can give you effective feedback. We’re here because we love the game and want to play it, enjoy it, and see it do well. Let us work with you.
(I admit that not everything the playerbase asks for or talks about is good, but for the most part there’s a consensus.)
There’s plenty more I’d like to say, but this isn’t really the time or the place. All said, I do feel optimistic about the future.
