The class, the subclasses, their purposes...

Ships
#1

The classes, the subclasses, their roles… and some things to improve :3

A thread half a tutorial for newbies and half a request for changes.

 

HELLO WORLD! I SEND RAINBOWS TO EVERYONE!

 

So, after reflexions about the tackler and its purpose, i though about making a general post about each class purpose…and what they cannot do…that they should be able to…or what they can do…that they shouldnt do…

 

Edit: This post is a little analysis about how the diferrent ships have to be played and why they cant fulfill their task or why they do “too much”.

ECMs do too much, Tacklers do too much, Commands maybe need a little revision with the buffs not stacking. And by “too much” i mean that they do things that are too much, not necessarily “OP” but not in the game spirit. And something other i would like is said in bold in the part 3.

 

 

PART 1: The classes, the subclasses, their roles and wich faction is better for your playstyle.

 

I warn you that this part could have been  in “guides” as well as it is in “balance” if my theory is right.

 

If i do a list of traits from each classes and subclasses, I obtain that:

 

{

assassin = Win 1 v 1 thanks to higher damages

support   = Help the team mates or yourself with utilitary

Cap         = Focus the enemy priority target

escape    = Escape

Affiliation = Main role of the subclass

}

 

Interceptors: squishy targets / fast / constant damages

ECM: Tank~support special module / support modules                                       Affiliation : Defender       Also saw in soloQ as: Support

Recon: Cap.~escape special module / self-protection, support modules               Affiliation : Support         Also saw in soloQ as: ----------

C-Ops: Assassin special module / assassin~support~escape modules                  Affiliation : Carry             Also saw in soloQ as: ----------

 

Fighters: medium ships / relatively fast (fast with cruise engine) / average damages

Command: Tank Special module / support modules                                           Affiliation : Defender       Also saw in soloQ as: Carry (self-buff build)

Tackler: Assassin~escape~Cap special module / support modules                       Affiliation : Support         Also saw in soloQ as: Carry (build assassin)

Gunship: Assassin~escape special module / assassin modules                            Affiliation : Carry            Also saw in soloQ as: ----------

 

Frigates: Huge ships / slow / low damages

Long Range: Assassin~Cap special module / self-protection~escape modules      Affiliation : Carry             Also saw in soloQ as: ----------

Guard: Tank special module / support modules                                                 Affiliation : Defender       Also saw in soloQ as: Support (area-deny build)

Engineers: Support special module / support modules                                        Affiliation : Support         Also saw in soloQ as: Defender (barrier + buff build)

 

Specialists:

JERICHO is a specialist in ships that will tank the damages and protect their mates.

FEDERATION is a specialist in ships that are fast.

EMPIRE is specialist in ships that will take kills easier.

 

 

There is a lot to say about this list…

 

First things first: what have all those classes in common?

I first though that it was like in pokemon (lel) : Interceptors beats frigates / Frigates beats Fighters / Fighters beats interceptors

 

But its seems more like what i said above: the bigger the ship is, the slower it will be and the more Survavibility it will have.

It is right but a problem happens: the interceptors cant be touched and are broken as xxxx with this logic.

 

So I ask my question again better:

What does every subclass from a same class have in common with the others and is balanced?

Q: Does each class posses three same subclasses?  A: No. Counter-exemple: LRF (snipers) are only in frigates (okay maybe the gauss can be considered like a “sniper” but won’t do the same amount of damages and is not a subclass by itself).

Q: Does each class posses three same roles?            A: Maybe! 1 ~carry / 1 support / 1 defender (~tank or team protector)

This theory is verified by the “Help” section in the game. There you can see explanations and also the icons for each subclass…and strangely you will see some similarities between them… :wink:

 

Edit: By the way, i know that each ship have its OWN ROLE and Carries, Supports, Defenders are only a general name that i give them because doing their role means doing those as well ^^

 

Edit: I will explain how to play a ship here now that I had all my answers in that thread :slight_smile:

 

Alright! You should have see in the list that each subclass have a “main role” or “affiliation”.

You can build your ship like you want, it will be your choice to fly a tackler as a support or an assassin. The only thing to remember is that the main role is the original one designed by the devs.

 

 

If you are a newbie only looking for the tutorial part, then you should now continue your reading in this topic: HERE

 

 

Now I will talk about the unbalanced strange (Edit: wtf did I wrote here?) subclasses.

 

PART 2: The littles “fails” and how a new player can have a wrong reaction.

 

ECM:

SERIOUSLY. WTF IS AN ECM? What can stops an ECM?? UNKILLABLE OR GAIN TOO MUCH TIME FOR HIS TEAM!

It can wipe the whole enemy team if well used (special module). Compared to the other defenders, it is a little broken…

 

Conclusion: Broken :slight_smile: <= fake smile

Edit: I had my answer, read the following comments for more informations. And remember to adapt your build.

 

COMMAND (+ engineers buffs):

Cool! This ship is great! …In team :confused: It cannot take any 1v1 like the other defenders T_T

Edit: Okay, it is a point i have to work on and not rush into the enemy like a tard but this is really annoying when there is multiple commands in the same team because of the buff not stacking and so there is a ship almost useless in this case :confused:  I had to precise it because the joke on the 1 v 1 didnt past…

 

Conclusion: …waaaaaahahhaha…snif snif T.T I cannot play commands in SoloQ wooohaahaahaa T.T Buff arent cumultatives and it is not worth having two of them in the same team x( Maybe i can suggest something better, like a degressive cumultative buff (ratio)? because, when multiple people needs sinergy on their commands…they wont do any strategy…they will just pick their command and hope to be carried.

Edit: Maybe the command don’t need a change to itself but a little rework of not-stacking zone buffs is needed? Or, if you want to keep this like this, please add the thing I’m asking for in the bold sentence at the end of this post in the part 3 :wink:

 

TACKLER:

mmm… I have played enought games (MOBAs/MMO/FPS/TPS/RTS…etc) to knows that utilitarian assassins does exist.

Invisibility + damage buff + utility modules = assassin

BUT, this ship has been designed like a… SUPPORT SHIP! RAAAAA WTF?! In fact, i fallen on the patch where the 20% damage buff is added and its for being aggressive.

Immagine a support-ship that only work for one target and die just after? It is not worth at all!! >n< It should take a reset or a reduced cooldown on the Chameleon after an assist or a kill took with main weapon! (not drones) Maybe a window of 20 sec to take the kill/assist for the reset?

 

Conclusion: …strange ship…thanks to its strange special module for a support-like ship, seems to be between an assassin and a support and die after (OR BEFORE) finishing its job /:S Also need good mates and is hard to be played in SoloQ  q_q

The tackler have not a clearly defined role (even if now i understand that it is mainly a support-like) because of its special module that don’t directly fulfill the original support purpose it would have, it is confusing for a support to become invisible and having damages burst, if you really like having a support that will secretly move through battle, set it to undetectable for radars, not invisible and remove that damage buff for something like a reset on cooldown for assists/kills took with main weapon. Also the singularity gun builds need a nerf if the removing of the 20% damages isn’t enought (like not being able to mutltiple-hit a same target with a single shot for example… \o/ Edit: my bad, fixed :stuck_out_tongue:) if this ship isn’t designed to be an assassin at primary role. Edit: it seems not needed anymore.

 

Side-story: Its a tackler that flank a Recon with invisibility and gain a damage buff: "SURPRISE MOTHAFUCKA! ITS SUPPORTING TIME! Wait, wait… what? D: "

 

Bonus: a question about the cruise engine. Have the cruise engine been made only for open space? Then it needs a bigger nerf for pvp and pve, because people could be confused. If not, I’m still confused :smiley:

 

COVERT-OPS and RECON:

Can someone explain me why the Recons specialists are the Empire and the Covert-Ops specialist are in Federation?

It would be  more logical that the Federation own all supports and the Empire own all damage-oriented ships. No?

Recons are fast moving in map and C-ops have a big amout of damages.

 

PART 3: Conclusion and current modifications.

 

Now i can say it: We need a complete tutorial in-game with an explanation of this list to improve the global gameplay and maybe interest more players :wink:

See more here:

It can be a video or a special map.

Here I show you where the informations could be displayed and you can modify the “role” by “Main role” to be more clear:

post-256008-0-47466100-1440112414.png

 

 

 

That is all mercenaries!

Thanks for reading my thoughts and comments are appreciated :wink:

Care about the comments dates! There is a lot of editing and modifications in the OP!

 

PS: If you want to understand the feeling of a new player seeing a tackler for the first time, read my previous thread: Tacklers: Assassins or supports? [Asking help].

 

Current situation of the thread (will be modified following the changes):

We do need a main role tutorial for each subclasses, a rework of the special module of tacklers (the main role of a tackler is to be a support, not an assassin), an explanation about C-ops and recons owners, maybe differents_ (saved by the player) setups for each ship (see the answers to important posts below), and maybe a rework on non-stacking zone buffs  or a clear explanation in the tutorial I am asking for._

 

Important posts (not necessary true or false, jump to them with the arrow to see the answers following them):

 

BIG POST HERE:

 

Suddenly, I realised something.

This game is not played a lot in competitive because of the multiple roles possible for a same subclasse and the unknowledge of what builds can be brought by the enemy team.

Because of that, the matches are played by advance and are not possible to be returned, it is only the chance that your opponent will have the wrong build.

 

Each subclasse have to be played with only one role (and not only one build) or the game is not possible to play in competitive.

 

 

Predesignated stuff is predictable and boring.

 

Amount of modules allow us to use w/e we like so we can fit ship for w/e playstyle we like. Which make every game diff and fun   :012j:

 

 

btw bubble tacklers are easy to counter as every high risk/reward ship.

 

 

infos:

OP can mean Over Power or Original Post

 

Changelog (edited by copy/paste of my own comments in the thread to make the OP more clear):

Edit: By the way, i know that each ship have its OWN ROLE and Carries, Supports, Defenders are only a general name that i give them because doing their role means doing those as well ^^

Edit 2 on COMMAND: Okay, it is a point i have work on and not rush into the enemy like a tard but this is really annoying when there is multiple commands in the same team because of the buff not stacking and so there is a ship almost useless :confused:  I had to precise it because the joke on the 1 v 1 didnt past…

Edit 3: This post is a little analysis about how the diferrent ships have to be played and why they cant fulfill their task or why they do “too much”.

ECMs do too much, Tacklers do too much, Commands need a little revision with the buff stacking. And by “too much” i mean that they do things that are too much, not necessarily “OP” but not in the game spirit.

Edit 4: Conclusion on TACKLER part modified.

Edit 5 ECM section: I had my answer, read the followings comments for more informations.

Edit 6: Changed the Affiliation (role) “Assassin” for “Carry”, wich is more clear and less subject to misunderstanding.

Edit 7: Adding a PS.

Edit 8: COMMAND section: Maybe the command don’t need a change to itself but a little rework of not-stacking zone buffs is needed? Or, if you want to keep this like this, please add the thing I’m asking for in the  bold  sentence at the end of this post :wink:

Edit 9: Added a picture.

Edit 10: Added a section “Current situation of the thread”

Edit 11: Changed title of the thread

Edit 12 TACKLER section: […]if the 20% removing isnt enought […] my bad, fixed :stuck_out_tongue:

Edit 13: Added the section IMPORTANT POSTS

_Edit 14: Added in the list _Also saw in soloQ as: 

Edit 15: Separated the OP in 3 differents parts.

Edit 16: Nuanced the TACKLER part about having a main role and secondaries.

Edit 17: I will explain how to play a ship here now that I had all my answers in that thread :slight_smile:

Edit 18: added COVERT-OPS and RECON in the part 2

Edit 19: specialist section updated after a mistake has been solved.

#2

Your problem is that you try to fit the classes into your pre made opinions and roles.

 

A gunship in this game can be a ballet dancer with knifes or a Ogre brute with a long range crossbow, or even an Iron clad dwarf with a great axe.

 

They are not assasins, they are brawlers, or long range hunters, or fast rogues, all in one class. Because fits and weapons count, and every faction, in fact EVERY ship, has its own soul and playstyle.

 

I appreciate your toughts, but it will be better for your performance if you stop thinking that, and you start learning the game.

#3

Ok, you seem to be misimformed about how each class works in this game.

Recon: scouts, that easily avoid the enemy and spots targets

cov ops: these are the real assasins, meant to blow up single targets quickly

ECM: gamebreakers. there honestly is no way to classify them

gunship: the main damage dealer of a team, kind of like a carry in a moba

Commands: buffships, that provide mobility and firepower at crucial moments. can also spec into sustaied damage

tacklers: these are hard to class, given the multitude of playstyles for them, so i wont try

Engi: healer, about as obvious as one can get

Guard: area denial and tank, meant as a front line

lrf: siege vessles, like long range mages in leauge of legends.

#4

Edit: In this comment, there was a misunderstanding and I did a lot of edits on the former post after.

Your problem is that you try to fit the classes into your pre made opinions and roles.

 

A gunship in this game can be a ballet dancer with knifes or a Ogre brute with a long range crossbow, or even an Iron clad dwarf with a great axe.

 

They are not assasins, they are brawlers, or long range hunters, or fast rogues, all in one class. Because fits and weapons count, and every faction, in fact EVERY ship, has its own soul and playstyle.

 

I appreciate your toughts, but it will be better for your performance if you stop thinking that, and you start learning the game.

 

Immagine that i talk to a dev:

Then why the xxxx is there main classes? like “fighters”, “interceptors” and “frigates”? this is not of any use, just build ships and don’t give them any class. Give them the shape you want and don’t make ECM so little. Make tacklers something usefull and LRF looking like real snipers! It is not me who want the players to think that there is premade classes, it is the game that incites to.

 

And tell me why is there special subclass weapons? like phaser,gravi-beamer, scatter-gun…etc? And also why is there some special equipment only for one class like the Energy recuperation system for fighters? Because maybe the other don’t fill the role of the ship. There is a way to play each ship and to counter each of them.

 

And now i can tell you something about balance: Interceptors are broken and easy gg wp if there is no teamplay and no tacklers, please play moar interceptors because there is only that that work in this broken game.

And even with a team with 5 tacklers and 5 gunships vs a team of 5 ecm and 5 C-Ops, the interceptor team will still win the match because too much damages and while a tackler and a gunship are chasing one C-ops, there is another ECM doing some weird thing with the rest of your team.

 

Explain me why this game is broken please?

 

 

Ok, you seem to be misimformed about how each class works in this game.
Recon: scouts, that easily avoid the enemy and spots targets
cov ops: these are the real assasins, meant to blow up single targets quickly
ECM: gamebreakers. there honestly is no way to classify them
gunship: the main damage dealer of a team, kind of like a carry in a moba
Commands: buffships, that provide mobility and firepower at crucial moments. can also spec into sustaied damage
tacklers: these are hard to class, given the multitude of playstyles for them, so i wont try
Engi: healer, about as obvious as one can get
Guard: area denial and tank, meant as a front line
lrf: siege vessles, like long range mages in leauge of legends.

 

By the way, i know that, Assassins / Supports / Defenders are only a general name that i give them because doing their role means doing those as well ^^

#5

Variety of game settings?

#6

Allow me to point out some things:

  1. Those “main classes” you speak of classify ships by weight, firepower, survivability, and maneuverability. Just like how real-life naval ships are classified.
  2. A destroyer is not simply a destroyer. A cruiser is not simply a cruiser. A battleship is not simply a battleship. A dreadnought is not simply a dreadnought. The way in which they are equipped and modified indicates the specialized subrole that they can fulfill.
  3. Giving any role to any weight ship is game-breaking, and will not make this game teamplay-based. There is a reason why roles exist, and it is to foster cooperation within a team of players during battles.
  4. Tacklers are useful, you are simply not using them to their fullest potential - and you are not playing the way that class is meant to be played.
  5. Subclass weapons are specialized for their ship role. They play into the strengths of the active modules and augment the ship’s capability to perform its role to the maximum extent. There are already plenty of non-subclass specific weaponry available, and all of them are great if used correctly. The same applies for class-specific passive modifiers.
  6. Interceptors are not broken. They used to be very powerful a long time ago before a series of nerfs to their fighting potential. The reason why interceptors are appealing to many is because they are very maneuverable, can dodge a lot of incoming fire, and punish people less for being out of position in a game.
  7. No one plays 5 tacklers and 5 gunships, that’s silly. And there is one thing that counters ECMs: proton walls.
  8. You can’t dictate who will win in that scenario you provide because there are way too many variables to take into account. Do the inties have F8? Do the fighters have proton walls/J2? What weapons are they using? Are the pilots roughly equal in skill? How is the terrain like? How are the ships built?
#7

Regarding the OP, your analysis of ECM falls into the category of so many other n00bs who don’t know what counter-tactics are.

 

Yes, ECMs are powerful. Yes, they have the potential to stun an entire team with the special module. But no, they cannot single-handedly kill an entire team. ECMs require the support of their team in order to actually be effective.

 

Here is what can stop an ECM: Any pilot with knowledge of how to build a ship, and knowledge of counter tactics.

 

Regarding your analysis of Commands. In no way are they unbalanced (on either side of the spectrum). Commands, like any other role in this game, rely on their team. Sure, a command isn’t meant to 1v1 an enemy, but does that mean it can’t? Absolutely not. A well-built command easily has the potential to 1v1 some roles in this game.

 

Regarding tacklers. Tacklers are both support and assassins (using your words). Different builds will result in different playstyles. For example, a Hyena with long-range gravibeamers is going to play far different from a Parallax with supernova singularity cannons. A long range gravibeamer build will play more like support, as you will lack damage to kill things, but you can support your team by slowing critical targets from afar. A short-range bubble tackler however, has incredible damage up close, and can easily “assassinate” a ship.

 

So before you make these analyses of ships, be sure you have all of your information, as well as accurate knowledge of the game (especially since there are hundreds of possible builds for each ship).

#8

 

 

Allow me to point out some things:

  1. Those “main classes” you speak of classify ships by weight, firepower, survivability, and maneuverability. Just like how real-life naval ships are classified.
  2. A destroyer is not simply a destroyer. A cruiser is not simply a cruiser. A battleship is not simply a battleship. A dreadnought is not simply a dreadnought. The way in which they are equipped and modified indicates the specialized subrole that they can fulfill.
  3. Giving any role to any weight ship is game-breaking, and will not make this game teamplay-based. There is a reason why roles exist, and it is to foster cooperation within a team of players during battles.
  4. Tacklers are useful, you are simply not using them to their fullest potential - and you are not playing the way that class is meant to be played.
  5. Subclass weapons are specialized for their ship role. They play into the strengths of the active modules and augment the ship’s capability to perform its role to the maximum extent. There are already plenty of non-subclass specific weaponry available, and all of them are great if used correctly. The same applies for class-specific passive modifiers.
  6. Interceptors are not broken. They used to be very powerful a long time ago before a series of nerfs to their fighting potential. The reason why interceptors are appealing to many is because they are very maneuverable, can dodge a lot of incoming fire, and punish people less for being out of position in a game.
  7. No one plays 5 tacklers and 5 gunships, that’s silly. And there is one thing that counters ECMs: proton walls.
  8. You can’t dictate who will win in that scenario you provide because there are way too many variables to take into account. Do the inties have F8? Do the fighters have proton walls/J2? What weapons are they using? Are the pilots roughly equal in skill? How is the terrain like? How are the ships built?

 

1.1 OK, that is true, then please, precise it in the game tutorial, because as a normal human, i’m not in the army.

1.2 OK, same reason.

 

2 I decided to play them with gravi-beamer since this is their main weapon special for them. But i mmagine a ship that come out of invisibility: insta killed.

I see TOO MUCH tacklers with Singularity triple shot-kill someone.

 

3 Why would i play another weapon than the specific class-designed one?

 

4 Dodging bullets? GG: you will never die.

 

5 I don’t care about ECMs, immagine if they were 10 C-Ops

 

6 Of course, the designed build to the class.

 

Regarding the OP, your analysis of ECM falls into the category of so many other n00bs who don’t know what counter-tactics are.

 

Yes, ECMs are powerful. Yes, they have the potential to stun an entire team with the special module. But no, they cannot single-handedly kill an entire team. ECMs require the support of their team in order to actually be effective.

 

Here is what can stop an ECM: Any pilot with knowledge of how to build a ship, and knowledge of counter tactics.

 

Regarding your analysis of Commands. In no way are they unbalanced (on either side of the spectrum). Commands, like any other role in this game, rely on their team. Sure, a command isn’t meant to 1v1 an enemy, but does that mean it can’t? Absolutely not. A well-built command easily has the potential to 1v1 some roles in this game.

 

Regarding tacklers. Tacklers are both support and assassins (using your words). Different builds will result in different playstyles. For example, a Hyena with long-range gravibeamers is going to play far different from a Parallax with supernova singularity cannons. A long range gravibeamer build will play more like support, as you will lack damage to kill things, but you can support your team by slowing critical targets from afar. A short-range bubble tackler however, has incredible damage up close, and can easily “assassinate” a ship.

 

So before you make these analyses of ships, be sure you have all of your information, as well as accurate knowledge of the game (especially since there are hundreds of possible builds for each ship).

I know all you are saying here, stop taking me from high!

An ECM can stun the whole team and thx to that: THIS IS GG because your team will see paralized players and play the vultures.

For the command ship, i only said that the buffs arent cumultatives and it could be improved. Nothing more.

And for the tacklers…walala… I don’t understand that ship. Their special weapon is the gravi-beamer, so i should use it like a support ship… but i see so many singularity double or triple shot to kill that I don’t understand the devs thoughs when they created this class.

 

And the game knoledge… please, im here since 2013 \o/

 

And like I said to Finemw: “By the way, i know that, Assassins / Supports / Defenders are only a general name that i give them because doing their role means doing those as well ^^”

#9

I edited my former post because there was too much confusion and i think everyone may have mistaken about my idea :S :

 

By the way, i know that each ship have its OWN ROLE and Carries, Supports, Defenders are only a general name that i give them because doing their role means doing those as well ^^

 

And allow me to quote myself if you didnt understand it:

 

"Q: Does each class posses three same subclasses?  A: No. Counter-exemple: LRF (snipers) are only in frigates (okay maybe the gauss can be considered like a “sniper” but won’t do the same amount of damages and is not a subclass by itself).

Q: Does each class posses three same roles?            A: Maybe! 1 ~carry / 1 support / 1 defender (~tank)"

 

“~” means “something that is like but is not exactly”

The easiest way to understand it is if you know league of legends: Thresh and Soraka are both supports and can be assimilated to tacklers and engineers.

 

I also edit the part talking about Commands:

 

Okay, it is a point i have work on and not rush into the enemy like a tard but this is really annoying when there is multiple commands in the same team because of the buff not stacking and so there is a ship almost useless :confused:  I had to precise it because the joke on the 1 v 1 didnt past…

#10

Please use proper topic titles.

#11

 

 

1.1 OK, that is true, then please, precise it in the game tutorial, because as a normal human, i’m not in the army.

1.2 OK, same reason.

 

2 I decided to play them with gravi-beamer since this is their main weapon special for them. But i mmagine a ship that come out of invisibility: insta killed.

I see TOO MUCH tacklers with Singularity triple shot-kill someone.

 

3 Why would i play another weapon than the specific class-designed one?

 

4 Dodging bullets? GG: you will never die.

 

5 I don’t care about ECMs, immagine if they were 10 C-Ops

 

6 Of course, the designed build to the class.

 

I know all you are saying here, stop taking me from high!

An ECM can stun the whole team and thx to that: THIS IS GG because your team will see paralized players and play the vultures.

For the command ship, i only said that the buffs arent cumultatives and it could be improved. Nothing more.

And for the tacklers…walala… I don’t understand that ship. Their special weapon is the gravi-beamer, so i should use it like a support ship… but i see so many singularity double or triple shot to kill that I don’t understand the devs thoughs when they created this class.

 

And the game knoledge… please, im here since 2013 \o/

 

And like I said to Finemw: “By the way, i know that, Assassins / Supports / Defenders are only a general name that i give them because doing their role means doing those as well ^^”

 

Imagine there were 10 cov ops. Imagine the game is beacon hunt. Take 2 guards, 2 tacklers, 2 engies and the rest I don’t care. You won’t even touch a beacon.

 

Cov ops are great for killing un supported, lone wolf ships. But against a well coordinated team, they have a lot of problems.

 

And by the way, if the interceptor is dodging, he is not killing, if he is running away, he is not contesting objectives. Killing is not always the answer. In fact, a lot of veterans with the ultra rotation builds just flee once you reach the hull because they are afraid to lose their precious K/D rating. Just shoo them away.

#12

@xerrio  - I understand your point xerrio. Me and many other new pilots had hard time to understand logic of the classes and subclasses. I still have the problem  to swallow some things that I see in this game: like ECM in T4 that challanges whole wing firing at it for about 30 - 50 seconds and survive, tackler easily killed by same ECM, why two guards cannot use pulsar in the same time as defense of  interceptors, fighters that have no real chance against ints etc.

I know that u r talking about  constants like scissors, paper, rock. Scissors beats paper, paper beats rock etc - frigates kill fighters, fighters kill ints, ints kill frigates. Like u I also think that relations between classes and subclasses are not appropriate and that it can be easily viewed in one on one situations. Like u I also wrote in couple of topics about that and more skilled and experienced pilots told me that I was wrong. I m still waiting to understand their point of view.

 

 

    Your problem is that you try to fit the classes into your pre made opinions and roles.

This is probably right but then tutorials and descriptions should be significantly altered. Or maybe classes should be fitted into majority of average and new players opinions. I don’t believe that  majority players will wait 1 or 2 years to understand your logic like me.

 

I don’t think this game is broken but it needs more tuning . Its a great game - at this moment one of a kind. I can only imagine how hard is for devs to keep things balanced. And I think that in that process some mistakes were made. But its normal. However the biggest mistake (of the company) is not to listen new players opinions and total neglect of their point of view and feedback. Some of hard - core veteran players on this forum see that, some don’t (because they are good and they like things as they are). There is no other way to explain situation in which you have great game on the one side and low players base on another.

 

 

Imagine there were 10 cov ops. Imagine the game is beacon hunt. Take 2 guards, 2 tacklers, 2 engies and the rest I don’t care.

 

Imagine there were 5 cov ops and 5 ECMs. (T4)

#13

Please use proper topic titles.

Sorry, I though my title was right since, for me, ECMs, Commands and Tacklers seems to be failed by devellopers (okay, maybe not the command, it is just a little adjustement needed here.): the ECM is still a gamer-breaker and the tackler have not a clearly defined role (even if now i understand that it is a support-like) and its special module don’t fulfill the support purpose it would have, it is confusing for a support to become invisible and having damages burst, if you really like having a support that will secretly move through battle, set it to undetectable for radars, not invisible and remove that damage buff for something like a reset on cooldown for assists/kills took with main weapon. Also the singularity gun builds need a nerf (like not being able to mutltiple-hit a same target) if this ship isn’t designed to be an assassin.

It is a fail in the developement for the well understanding of how to play by a player!

 

I edited again my post to be as clear as possible:

This post is a little analysis about how the diferrent ships have to be played and why they cant fulfill their task or why they do “too much”.

ECMs do too much, Tacklers do too much, Commands need a little revision with the buff stacking.

 

 

@Eviscerador, in you composition: Focus first tacklers asap they will melt in 2 sec, then kill engies, then guards last if you really need to kill those for taking a beacon and take only two beacons. Change beacon to make guards run and always having two of them.

 

@maxer001, I like your comment :smiley: The only thing is that isn’t a cisor/paper/rock, it is more developed like i said with my example from league of legends (thresh and soraka: both supports, both different way to play and to counter and be countered).

This is probably right but then tutorials and descriptions should be significantly altered. OH YEAH. I said it in the former post and I still think it is needed :smiley:

 

Game devs, please take a little more time on this topic, we need your help :slight_smile:

#14

 

Imagine there were 5 cov ops and 5 ECMs. (T4)

My point still applies. ECMs lack DPS, and you need really good coordination to take down a guard under engineer auras and repair stations. Cov ops and ECMs don’t have staying power, at the moment you fire at them, they are gone, either dead or running away.

 

Btw in case it is T4 you WILL NEVER win a beacon hunt vs a guard with destructor and a balanced team with an interceptor swarm. It is as it is.

 

Of course, if you have ECMNoob, Agressor, Maxwell, and another 7 as them in the ceptor swarm against a bunch of randoms they will kill them. But they will do that in ANY ship. But we are considering here same level of skill, so the guards will have Rakza, Volvhelain, Omega and Tillo with the LRFs and Ludwig with the engineers. I can volunteer with a gunship, and I will bring CrO on the other one.

 

Deal?

#15

And that unknown lrf that pisses off a lot of intis :stuck_out_tongue:

#16

@Eviscerador:

Yes ECMs lack DPS, it is true (FORTUNATELY).

This is why i want to take down engineers after the 2 tacklers ^^

 

Quote: “Cov ops and ECMs don’t have staying power, at the moment you fire at them, they are gone, either dead or running away.” Wait…what? I cannot touch an interceptor not slowed with standard railgun: too fast, too slim and always in the deadzone. How can you do that?

Guards shouldnt be able to 1 v 1 an Interceptor, like it is said somewhere, “interceptors will always be in the deadspot”. Their only defense against that is the pulsar.

If this is the case, then this is another issue that is to add.

 

Quote: “Btw in case it is T4 you WILL NEVER win a beacon hunt vs a guard with destructor and a balanced team with an interceptor swarm. It is as it is.” It is exactly why i post on forums: to change it because it is not fair :confused:

 

@Rennie Ash

sniping someone running ~500 m/sec? Are you a cyborg? :smiley: Or maybe your targets arent aware of your existence in the current match because they forgot to press tab to see team comp.

 

 

Can we go back to the former topic now? Wich is: ECMs do too much, Tacklers do too much, Commands need a little revision with the buff stacking. And by “too much” i mean that they do things that are too much, not necessarily “OP” but not in the game spirit. And also a proposal of a new in-game tutorial for each class and role.

#17

I don’t snipe them I use the 4.5k+ dps laser which can kill most interceptors or make them work to avoid it. Good pilots are still a match for it but lesser skilled pilots or pilots that are not moving well can be exploded quickly. Lrf has 6 turrets, so why not use them? Btw 500m/s is nothing to lasers without good rotation.

#18

@Rennie Ash: okay :smiley: It is right (and further more its 2 carries fighting each other following my theory after all ^^)

#19

@Eviscerador:

Yes ECMs lack DPS, it is true (FORTUNATELY).

This is why i want to take down engineers after the 2 tacklers ^^

 

Quote: “Cov ops and ECMs don’t have staying power, at the moment you fire at them, they are gone, either dead or running away.” Wait…what? I cannot touch an interceptor not slowed with standard railgun: too fast, too slim and always in the deadzone. How can you do that?

Guards shouldnt be able to 1 v 1 an Interceptor, like it is said somewhere, “interceptors will always be in the deadspot”. Their only defense against that is the pulsar.

If this is the case, then this is another issue that is to add.

 

Quote: “Btw in case it is T4 you WILL NEVER win a beacon hunt vs a guard with destructor and a balanced team with an interceptor swarm. It is as it is.” It is exactly why i post on forums: to change it because it is not fair :confused:

 

@Rennie Ash

sniping someone running ~500 m/sec? Are you a cyborg? :smiley: Or maybe your targets arent aware of your existence in the current match because they forgot to press tab to see team comp.

 

 

Can we go back to the former topic now? Wich is: ECMs do too much, Tacklers do too much, Commands need a little revision with the buff stacking. And by “too much” i mean that they do things that are too much, not necessarily “OP” but not in the game spirit. And also a proposal of a new in-game tutorial for each class and role.

Yes you can hit an interceptor with a standard railgun. If you use a tackler or gunship with gauss, you will wreck them.

 

I think you misread my post. The team that will never win is the interceptor one against the other one.

 

Also, about the interceptor “in the dead zone” well, that is what your team is for. Did you know that one ally can fire a torpedo at you, hit you for no damage and kill the interceptor with the explosion radious?

 

Did you know that guards with engine inhibitor will strip all cov ops from the precious adaptive tanking?

 

Concerning the supposed OP topic: ECM are not OP, they are really annoying, and they are really good for disabling interceptor to score the last finishing hits, or rendering them useless due to energy syphon. But they need another one to kill you, because in a straight 1v1, even if you are disabled for 6 or 7 seconds, you can still kill them in return.

 

Tacklers OP? lol, just fit the F8 implant and laugh at them. In fact I don’t use the F8 implant and still do.

 

Commands are fine. In fact since the last buff to diff shield, high tier commands are harder to kill than guards, and in case they have an engineer with energy aura nearby, they are just invulnerable, while still being able to dish a really respectable amount of damage.

 

What you are asking for cumulative buffs is just dumb and will be OP. There is a reason they don’t stack.

#20

ECMs… mmm… okay, i will deal with it. You convinced me = SOLVED

But, if their special module caught multiple people: their job is done and its not a problem if the ECM die after.

 

COMMANDS: still issues when there is multiple commands in the same team = useless and all people don’t know that buffs aren’t stacking. = NOT SOLVED

“What you are asking for cumulative buffs is just dumb and will be OP. There is a reason they don’t stack.” What are you saying here? I asked it to be disgressive with a ratio.

 

TACKLERS: When did i say “Tackler OP”? Can you read well? :smiley:

Quote myself: “And by “too much” i mean that they do things that are too much, not necessarily “OP” but not in the game spirit.”

Quote another part: “the tackler have not a clearly defined role (even if now i understand that it is a support-like) and its special module don’t fulfill the support purpose it would have, it is confusing for a support to become invisible and having damages burst, if you really like having a support that will secretly move through battle, set it to undetectable for radars, not invisible and remove that damage buff for something like a reset on cooldown for assists/kills took with main weapon. Also the singularity gun builds need a nerf (like not being able to mutltiple-hit a same target) if this ship isn’t designed to be an assassin.”

= NOT SOLVED

 

I edited the former post to add those comments of mine inside it, now it is more clear :wink:

 

I also change the “assassin” role for “carry” wich is more more more clear :stuck_out_tongue:

 

oh. And yes, i know all of the guard utilities.