Utterly unsurprised at the overwhelming support for JasanQuinns’ post.
I really hope that the devs respond and hopefully a constructive dialogue will ensue.
How about a compromise for the people who hate/hated losing against squads and, apparently, complained enough to instigate their removal?
For example - if you lose a match with a squad on the opposing team you get a bonus to synergy/credits/extra loot drop (with even a higher chance for a rare loot drop)?
Expertly put +1 to the original post.
I’m not suprised either at the support for this. Though i believe that a debuff for people in a squad is too much pandering to the idea that they are OP to begin with.
It may sound odd but i’d put a little more faith into the MM regarding this (I know faith in MM lolz). However many games both in the distant past and and more recently have looked predetermined when sizing up the players at match start but have had a suprising outcome. Recently this may be to do with the introduction of destroyers or rank restricted rewards but there have been occasions in the past where I have seen the enemy teams squad being too overconfident or spending too much time messing around with one or two players they have trouble with. Point being squad does not equal success and that can have nothing to do with the opposing squads efforts. A single player can have an impact if they are able or know how to.
This is the problem though. There are so many players right now that have never had any squad experience at all and so never know how to best apply themselves or support their team. Its very telling in that untill now i had never seen an engineer in game carry only energy emitter/never turn on heals cause they dont need them or three randoms try to take out turtles in fire support without any explosive weapons. Or even lately have people newer to the game race to the forum when they finally get thier destroyer and it gets taken out quickly.
These seem really stupid and obvious to most here but to the new player they are not apparent. There is very little information available to players on the many things we take for granted. In other words the game relies on squads or die hard soloists willing to learn. As any of those issues would be fixed with a quick word in ts/squad chat or a player noticing what they did wrong.
All the restriction to 2 player squad does is make sure things stay that way. If your going to squad with a friend then you will pick the very best you can with no chance of learners tagging along as you can almost guarantee that the opposing squad will be doing the same. This only furthers the ‘squads are OP opinion’ as i’m sure we have all been in some games where 2 new guys squad up in a ship each (another lesson) and someone else has to do all the heavy lifting for them. Regardless of the outcome it does not stop them congratulating each other for poor perfomance and in some cases doing it again because they think they are doing things well.
Imo i would still have the real squads restricted to r9+. There is no excuse to drop down below that in 3+ squad other than to farm as experience at that level is the most telling of all.
+1. I want to have a good reason to squad again.
Fighting against kill squads was always masochistically fun for me. Bring them back, Break free from the English yoke!
This is what it looks like when vets fight untrained wimps.
This is what it looks like when a vet takes up training new recruits
This is what it looks like when new vets are being trained -
And this is when they’re fully trained.
Expertly put +1 to the original post.
I’m not suprised either at the support for this. Though i believe that a debuff for people in a squad is too much pandering to the idea that they are OP to begin with.
It may sound odd but i’d put a little more faith into the MM regarding this (I know faith in MM lolz). However many games both in the distant past and and more recently have looked predetermined when sizing up the players at match start but have had a suprising outcome. Recently this may be to do with the introduction of destroyers or rank restricted rewards but there have been occasions in the past where I have seen the enemy teams squad being too overconfident or spending too much time messing around with one or two players they have trouble with. Point being squad does not equal success and that can have nothing to do with the opposing squads efforts. A single player can have an impact if they are able or know how to.Change
This is the problem though. There are so many players right now that have never had any squad experience at all and so never know how to best apply themselves or support their team. Its very telling in that untill now i had never seen an engineer in game carry only energy emitter/never turn on heals cause they dont need them or three randoms try to take out turtles in fire support without any explosive weapons. Or even lately have people newer to the game race to the forum when they finally get thier destroyer and it gets taken out quickly.
These seem really stupid and obvious to most here but to the new player they are not apparent. There is very little information available to players on the many things we take for granted. In other words the game relies on squads or die hard soloists willing to learn. As any of those issues would be fixed with a quick word in ts/squad chat or a player noticing what they did wrong.
All the restriction to 2 player squad does is make sure things stay that way. If your going to squad with a friend then you will pick the very best you can with no chance of learners tagging along as you can almost guarantee that the opposing squad will be doing the same. This only furthers the ‘squads are OP opinion’ as i’m sure we have all been in some games where 2 new guys squad up in a ship each (another lesson) and someone else has to do all the heavy lifting for them. Regardless of the outcome it does not stop them congratulating each other for poor perfomance and in some cases doing it again because they think they are doing things well.
Imo i would still have the real squads restricted to r9+. There is no excuse to drop down below that in 3+ squad other than to farm as experience at that level is the most telling of all.
Dude you were ofline 4 days. Wtf??? Don’t tell me you discoverd RL?
Seems the devs are back! So let’s hope for a reply.
Dude you were ofline 4 days. Wtf??? Don’t tell me you discoverd RL?
THat tells alot about the game’s current state, doesnt it 
(It’s not SC anymore if I log in and ur not around JC)
For example - if you lose a match with a squad on the opposing team you get a bonus to synergy/credits/extra loot drop (with even a higher chance for a rare loot drop)?
People could start abusing this by losing on purpose.
When solo-queueing for high rank games together with friends, you often end up in the same game anyway, so let’s say what difference does it make if you implement 2v0 squad rule again, since the squad factor isn’t the only factor that can have a great impact on MM. I often see the same names hanging around in T5 games, we are a bunch of people who came to know eachother’s playstyles abit in some sense, only difference is that we might not sit over TS all the time but that doesn’t change the fact you can still be “op” if you have the situational awareness, combined with flexibility and skill, and the knowledge as well as experience.
But anyhow, who says the current MM is optimized and shouldn’t be changed, improved?
Devs constantly “balance” shipclasses, weapons and modules all the time, sometimes it is closer to a real balance than other times, so that too has an impact on MM balance, not only “OP” squads.
THat tells alot about the game’s current state, doesnt it
(It’s not SC anymore if I log in and ur not around JC)
yeah… Just not natural
All of that was discussed many times. What we all know, that squad system can’t be back in it’s old state, cause it was’t working properly one time. avarshina have already represented some issuees with it.
Let’s try to summarize something this time. I’m sure, the whole SC Team will be pleased to see some undiscussed solutions and compromises from all of you here.
All of that was discussed many times. What we all know, that squad system can’t be back in it’s old state, cause it was’t working properly one time. avarshina have already represented some issuees with it.
Let’s try to summarize something this time. I’m sure, the whole SC Team will be pleased to see some undiscussed solutions and compromises from all of you here.
then give an option to launch in squad part of play, just like we have PVP/PVE LAUNCH buttons give as a PVP SQUAD option. Then everyone knows what to expect.
All of that was discussed many times. What we all know, that squad system can’t be back in it’s old state, cause it was’t working properly one time. avarshina have already represented some issuees with it.
Let’s try to summarize something this time. I’m sure, the whole SC Team will be pleased to see some undiscussed solutions and compromises from all of you here.
Make it more profitable for vets to squad in T5 than T3 and the farming problem stops. That will also mean you need to make premium tokens, neodium etc available to T5 pilots.
You cannot complain about veterans farming newbies, then in the very next breath announce a bunch of new content exclusively for low and mid tiers that vets want to obtain as well.
All of that was discussed many times. What we all know, that squad system can’t be back in it’s old state, cause it was’t working properly one time. avarshina have already represented some issuees with it.
Let’s try to summarize something this time. I’m sure, the whole SC Team will be pleased to see some undiscussed solutions and compromises from all of you here.
I think the main issue is like myself a lot of people only see the problems that have been created rather than any more viable solutions. The removal of squads is like a passive hand holding compared to the more hands on approach that new guys in a squad got as they learned and got better. At the moment i see it as making players steadily worse in a game that requires rather high skill to play at end game. Instead of new blood and fresh ideas we get new guys in destroyers complain that they are not powerful enough but two guys in a squad are too powerful.
But its good to have an open discussion about a solution, ill try to list all the ones i can remember. I dont agree with all of them but i would take any if it brought some players back and brutal jumps from 2 to 8 man groups beginning in R7-9 were addressed. At the very least it would be nice to see a reduction in the amount of ‘wrong’ play thats been going on in higher ranks of late.
Debuff to members in a squad.
Reduced or denial of certain rewards.
Option for players to avoid the larger squads.
3+ squads restricted to highest ranks.
One random ship select lockout.
Extra MM weight given to full ‘vet’ squad.
All in response to the idea of ‘squads being too OP’. Is this the right track at least? Or should it be approached from another angle?
All of that was discussed many times. What we all know, that squad system can’t be back in it’s old state, cause it was’t working properly one time. avarshina have already represented some issuees with it.
Let’s try to summarize something this time. I’m sure, the whole SC Team will be pleased to see some undiscussed solutions and compromises from all of you here.
Just make it simple. Add a check-box that you want to squad with 3-4 men people. (add an icon like for wings, accepting mentoring requests or something)
So, Leader in a group can queue against the squads with the same option checked, so that both are matched against another 3-4 men squad. Should only apply for ranks 13-15.
Those who don’t, cannot get into such matches.
If there is an issue with resources, because of ranks, check my token suggestion again.
As many people wrote, the easiest solution would be to give players an option to queue (or not queue) with other 2+ pilot squads.
Koro/Frost your solution is just more complicated version of what I proposex earlier…
Koro/Frost your solution is just more complicated version of what I proposex earlier…
We are basically saying the same thing, one with a checkbox (like the station protection) and one with simply another gamemode.
Either way, I fear that then the squad queue will be as empty as leagues, and that no randoms would join to learn something…
Debuff to members in a squad.
Punishes casuals far more than vets.
Reduced or denial of certain rewards.
Discourages squadding save for vets who don’t need rewards.
Option for players to avoid the larger squads.
What is this meant to achieve?
3+ squads restricted to highest ranks.
One random ship select lockout.
Once again, you’re punishing casuals.
Extra MM weight given to full ‘vet’ squad.
MM can’t distinguish vets from non vets.
All in response to the idea of ‘squads being too OP’. Is this the right track at least? Or should it be approached from another angle?
No, this is all wrong. This is the thinking the devs used, and look where it led us.
Punishes casuals far more than vets.
Discourages squadding save for vets who don’t need rewards.
What is this meant to achieve?
Once again, you’re punishing casuals.
MM can’t distinguish vets from non vets.
No, this is all wrong. This is the thinking the devs used, and look where it led us.
Yep kinda the point im trying to make. These are some ideas that have popped up before, trying to get the discussion going in better direction.
I know im outta ideas.
All of that was discussed many times. What we all know, that squad system can’t be back in it’s old state, cause it was’t working properly one time. avarshina have already represented some issuees with it.
Let’s try to summarize something this time. I’m sure, the whole SC Team will be pleased to see some undiscussed solutions and compromises from all of you here.
This guy below gave the best reply that summarize up my thoughts
I think the main issue is like myself a lot of people only see the problems that have been created rather than any more viable solutions. The removal of squads is like a passive hand holding compared to the more hands on approach that new guys in a squad got as they learned and got better. At the moment i see it as making players steadily worse in a game that requires rather high skill to play at end game. Instead of new blood and fresh ideas we get new guys in destroyers complain that they are not powerful enough but two guys in a squad are too powerful.
You should totally change approach. Instead of making the game easier for everyone creating an huge abyss in skill between pilots, the solution should be to implement a “learning curve” more consistent. And at the same time to give back the social aspect of the game.
I never tried to help Avarshina getting better, he is in my corporation but: I don’t blame myself. Why should I do it? It’s not worth anymore. I never seen a game having success in focusing about how to retains “randoms” instead of trying to create: addiction in all the players that want to stay long in the game and invest money.
Chasing “random’s wishes” and screwing up with vets and wannabe vets it’s not a good strategy. Randoms don’t really know what they want. And they will not stay longer, doesn’t matter how hard you try to retain them by creating a “nab, casuals environment”.