Tackler Buff

Suggestions Balance
21

I would say there are a few things we could do with the engine suppressor:

  1. Increase speed reduction. Obvious enough.

  2. Decrease cooldown/increase duration etc.

  3. Prevent movement in the z and y axes (or is it x and y? Whichever prevent the keys alt shift a and d from being used).

  4. Let it completely short out an enemy’s thrusters for 2 seconds or so. Just long enough to deplete the shields and pop off a missile. Then the tackler would perform its role far more effectively.

And also, as phase remods are bugging me, why not have a passive module that prevents interceptors from using the phase remodulator, and if they try, grant you a momentary 5% damage boost to main weapons?

22

And also, as phase remods are bugging me, why not have a passive module that prevents interceptors from using the phase remodulator, and if they try, grant you a momentary 5% damage boost to main weapons?

 

Recon interceptors have them, they are called spy drones. They are their own worst enemy.

23

A passive module that disables cloaking? AND gives you a damage bonus too? What are you smoking?

Just make the TP disable stealth like I said earlier.

 

 

Oh man I never even knew that, same with the lack of strafe. That thing sounds like it used to be really heinous

Yeah, it’d be pretty devastating except that every interceptor has a way to get rid of debuffs by cloaking or ion beaming the tackler.

24

Covert ops doesnt… camo doesnt get rid of a tacklers debuffs.

25

Tacklers definitely need a buff, though I don’t know what I’d personally do to fix them. What I do know is that I have more success killing interceptos with a katana S with heavy rails than I do with my katana AE with assault lasers. The inties usually run from the S rather than try to drill though its tank, when they usually eat the AE alive, and I shoot them in the back as they run. The AE I use for sneaking up on engis and LRFs and grinding them down before the enemy realises their support is dying. This seems a bit like a role reversal to me, and it doesn’t really make any sense.

 

The cloak is fine however; only been pulled out early by wayward shots, pulsars and poor flying, though a shorter CD would be nice.

 

And before anyone points it out, yes I know lasers do xxxx-all damage, but they’re beyond useful when an interceptor gets on top of you or knows how to fly effective evasive maneuvers.

26

I agree the Tacklers are a bit to ineffective ATM. My main problem with the ship are:

 

-it’s vulnerability (My Rhi-No is rated just a tiny bit stronger then Dwarf2).

-Cloak recharge time

-Engine suppressor recharge time.

 

I can live with the Phase modulator breaking the target painter.

 

I don’t favour extreme changes to the ship, but a bit of finetuning could do the job IMO.

27

I can live with the Phase modulator breaking the target painter.

Are you also happy with it breaking the inhibitor beam and engine supressor? 'cos until this is changed I’m pretty sure I’ll continue mincing tacklers in my recon (who are supposed to be hunting *me* according to the role description. ho ho ho).

 

I think since the inty buff, tacklers being underpowered has become  a fairly serious problem. They’re supposed to be the role that protects others from the big bad interceptors, and that they can’t do that is a major reason Combat Recon is a race to plasma arc the captain right now.

28

Breaking the beam, no problem, reloads fast enough. Did not know you could break engine suppressor ?  Can you ? it’s fire and forget isn’t it ?

29

The targeting block is fire and forget… the engine supressor is a beam as well… if it breaks, they go full speed again. 

30

:confused: i guess that could be a fix i’d say :confused:

31

Yeah it doesn’t explicitly say it like the Inhibitor Beam but the Engine Suppressor also needs LoS, and so breaks on cloaking.

 

So, motivated by this thread I refitted my tackler in to a ship specifically designed to tackle interceptors. The first thing I notice is that interceptors are still too agile for a tackler to dogfight effectively. Even with both debuffs up interceptors were still running rings around me, not because they were too fast but because they were still too maneuverable and could easily fly circles around me at 500m and stay behind me, while I couldn’t turn to track them. I had to load up my Fox-M with TWO collision compensators before I was happy to dogfight interceptors even with both debuffs up (got it to 106 dps pitch, which is still well below the 141 my recon does with one compensator, hence why even with the 2 compensators I still need debuffs to compete with it).

Having the inhibitor beam and/or engine suppressor nerf rotation speed as well as straight line speed would be a major help.

32

Even with both debuffs up interceptors were still running rings around me, not because they were too fast but because they were still too maneuverable and could easily fly circles around me at 500m and stay behind me, while I couldn’t turn to track them. I had to load up my Fox-M with TWO collision compensators before I was happy to dogfight interceptors even with both debuffs up (got it to 106 dps pitch, which is still well below the 141 my recon does with one compensator, hence why even with the 2 compensators I still need debuffs to compete with it).

Having the inhibitor beam and/or engine suppressor nerf rotation speed as well as straight line speed would be a major help.

 

And I thought I was just bad at dogfighting ><

 

Debuffs that extend to rotation speed (and maneuvering speed too) would be good for tacklers. It might help them in dogfighting other fighters as well.

33

I disagree, I think the more that you make automated, the less interesting the game becomes.

 

I would simply like to be able to pilot a rank 9 Tackler without a prerequisite to pull out my credit card.

34

I disagree, I think the more that you make automated, the less interesting the game becomes.

 

I would simply like to be able to pilot a rank 9 Tackler without a prerequisite to pull out my credit card.

This sounds like you’d rather just let interceptors be able to kick everyone’s @$$, instead of having tacklers able to take down intys at the speed intys kill frigates with a decent arsenal ie 6 seconds.

35

I think he was replying to the OP, not realising that we’ve moved on about 6 topics.

36

… Well, at least I made my point.

 

Some of the modules on the interceptors should be shifted over to fighters, or - in that case of the electronic interference module - given back to the fighters. Specifically tacklers.

 

The interceptors have had way too many buffs for their own good (Cov Ops, I’m looking straight at you on this one) and as tacklers have been run into the ground by nerfs and rendered near-useless due to a shield and hull nerf (completely unnecessary) and a speed decrease (devs… Just why?!), why don’t we shift some of those buffs over to the fighters?

 

First, fighter buffing. Gunships should focus on debuffing their targets, flicking on the overdrive and raining hell on a single target. Fighters are meant to be interceptor killers, after all, and the ridiculous amount of buffs has left it so that

 

You can get 50 kills by facerolling the keyboard.

 

I forgot who posted that, but I agree completely.

 

Tacklers. You’re supposed to cloak, sneak up on your target (a sniper or a lone interceptor), decloak, activate some debuffs and again, rain hell upon those in your crosshairs. This may seem to make tacklers OP, but given the 60 second cooldown and the possibility of not killing your target it’s still down to skill (about 1 kill per minute, or 2+ if you’re really good). Shift the electronic interference module back over to fighters, make it tackler module, and make the engine suppressor drop speed to 0, but still allow rotation and have a short time span. There. Interceptors, you can still swivel, but swivel fast or you’re going to get murdered.

 

Command. I have no qualms about command currently, other than they should have a higher survivability than their counterparts and deal a tad less damage. They’re meant to buff teammates and help out with mopping up a beacon/killing the captain.

 

Interceptors can keep their phase module, but as long as target painter or something stops them from using it, I’m fine. Fighters can’t take frigates head on, but they’re not supposed to. The whole idea currently of a fighter is that they kill smaller ships that the larger ones can’t. Interceptors should attack in small groups and swamp a target before they can react, therefore requiring skill, teamwork and removing the

 

You can get 50 kills by facerolling the keyboard.

 

thing.

 

I’m done with my rant now.

 

TL;DR

 

Gunships: Fine as they are (sort of)

Tacklers: Awesome at killing lone targets, suck when facing organised groups.

Command: Slight damage reduction, higher shields/hull than other fighters.

37

1st thing that has to be done is that “free” tacklers have to be brought to the level of premium ones (T2 and T3) in terms of ranks and bonuses

 As it is now,

  T2 Rhinno is extremely efficient in a conjuction with MK3 modules, i wouldn’t say he is OP but its “free” counterparts are nowhere near it, i would even say they are next to worthless in a comparison. I don’t even think Rhino needs any buffs, for once i can even say it is too strong against Frigates (i assume it is not suppose to)

  T3 Bear is alright, due to his 4 Passive slots and Rank 9 you are able to fit quite a tank and you are eligible to feds Rank 9 implant, unfortunately my Bear is equipped with mix of greens and mk2 (some passives are MK3 but not active modules). In T3 my current fit performs well against intys, ok against random Fighters(not so great against veterans with tons of tank)  and plain worthless against frigates, hopefully when i max it out it will get better.Good T3 “free” tacklers are non existant.

Oh btw i used to fly my Rhino and Bear with rapidfires or assault weapons and then i switched to hails, it is whole different world now. Your painter and your engine inhibitor are 3000k activation, its about your hails effective range. Yes your afterburn blocker is 1k-1.2k range but you shouldn’t go alone into a swarm of intys to force yourself to use it, be smart and keep your distance (at least in T3). 

P.S. a little trick i like to do is locate a target and get in range, start charging your hails when it is at 1.5-2 charges start locking on target, by the time you lock its max charge - activate your painter and slow(if needed) discharge your weapon + extra weapon shoot in a quick succession, it makes 4x hail burst on your target that didnt even know its coming since you didnt give yourself away with markers and target lock, it does wonders, specifically in T2

38

Right now, Tacklers have the highest risk job.  

 

Their preferred target is interceptors, but they are slower and need to be in front of them to “catch” the target.

    The ECM and Recon interceptors have abilities that can disable and escape the Tackler’s abilities.

    Covert Ops can out dps/explode and possibly take out a tackler.  

 

They seem to be optimized for short range, high burst weapons because they have about 10s before the debuffs wear off.

 

They don’t have additional health, speed or resistances to allow them to close with a target.

 

Their class ability will let them close or escape, but not both and not frequently.  

 

You don’t want to make the Tackler a short range gunship, but at the same time you need to address these issues and make the class interesting to play.  You don’t want a situation like the frigates, where if you are alone an interceptor will win every time.  We also want a clear role separation between Tacklers and ECM.  ECM focuses on preventing the use of abilities and movement.  Tackler should focus on debuffs, slowing and pulling units out of formation.  I also like the drone mechanic, hitting targets with drones that do debuffs that can be shot off by the opposing team.  To that end I suggest the following:

 

Tacklers should be able to equip a selection of drones.  Drones are active modules that fly to the target and orbit it for a period and can be targeted and destroyed by the other team. (Oh, hey Torpedo LRFs now can clear drones off you, nice)

Change the guard drone to a Jammer Drone:  Jammer Drones fly to the target and inhibit their turning and strafe speed for 20 seconds.

Add a Thruster Drone:  Thruster Drones randomly add a impulse vector to a target, causing it to spiral randomly, like the jockey in Left 4 Dead.  The effect should be lower for fighters, and even lower for frigates, but still cause them targeting and position issues.  

 

Add a active module that is a long range pull beam that can yank a ship over to the Tackler.  The “Get Over Here” beam will help break up frigate balls in T3/T4 as well as make up for the slower speed of Tacklers vs. Interceptors.  It should require line of sight but should have a good range, like 5k.  

 

Add a active module “Bum Rush” that boosts the tackler forward 3000k.  Sort of a mini Microwarp (Nanowarp?).  

 

Now a tackler can outfit themselves to get in and out quickly, but limits their debuffs, or they can have a full toolbox of debuffs but have to work more to apply them.

 

Finally, change the Tackler speed to be the fastest of the fighter classes, with more maneuverability then the other two.  It should fall between the Command and Gunship in durability.  

39

Right now, Tacklers have the highest risk job.

Their preferred target is interceptors, but they are slower and need to be in front of them to “catch” the target.

The ECM and Recon interceptors have abilities that can disable and escape the Tackler’s abilities.

Covert Ops can out dps/explode and possibly take out a tackler.

They seem to be optimized for short range, high burst weapons because they have about 10s before the debuffs wear off.

They don’t have additional health, speed or resistances to allow them to close with a target.

Their class ability will let them close or escape, but not both and not frequently.

You don’t want to make the Tackler a short range gunship, but at the same time you need to address these issues and make the class interesting to play. You don’t want a situation like the frigates, where if you are alone an interceptor will win every time. We also want a clear role separation between Tacklers and ECM. ECM focuses on preventing the use of abilities and movement. Tackler should focus on debuffs, slowing and pulling units out of formation. I also like the drone mechanic, hitting targets with drones that do debuffs that can be shot off by the opposing team. To that end I suggest the following:

Tacklers should be able to equip a selection of drones. Drones are active modules that fly to the target and orbit it for a period and can be targeted and destroyed by the other team. (Oh, hey Torpedo LRFs now can clear drones off you, nice)

Change the guard drone to a Jammer Drone: Jammer Drones fly to the target and inhibit their turning and strafe speed for 20 seconds.

Add a Thruster Drone: Thruster Drones randomly add a impulse vector to a target, causing it to spiral randomly, like the jockey in Left 4 Dead. The effect should be lower for fighters, and even lower for frigates, but still cause them targeting and position issues.

Add a active module that is a long range pull beam that can yank a ship over to the Tackler. The “Get Over Here” beam will help break up frigate balls in T3/T4 as well as make up for the slower speed of Tacklers vs. Interceptors. It should require line of sight but should have a good range, like 5k.

Add a active module “Bum Rush” that boosts the tackler forward 3000k. Sort of a mini Microwarp (Nanowarp?).

Now a tackler can outfit themselves to get in and out quickly, but limits their debuffs, or they can have a full toolbox of debuffs but have to work more to apply them.

Finally, change the Tackler speed to be the fastest of the fighter classes, with more maneuverability then the other two. It should fall between the Command and Gunship in durability.

I created a passive module that prevents ECM, Recon and Cov Ops from using anything to get out of their situation:

Stryker - Upon activating a debuff, your target cannot use any modules except from restoration and survival modules for x seconds. However, your all your active modules’ efficiency is reduced by x%. (TACKLERS ONLY!)

[The thread is here.](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/20005-class-passives/)

Now they can’t hide, explode, warp or do anything whilst you target them. The modules are what make interceptors good. Take that away and what are they without their speed?

EDIT: I had a go at fixing frigates as well. Make the remote modules short out their target’s actives for a while.

40

Hmm, I’m kind of liking one part of the drone idea. Sentry Drone has turned out to be a bust because it’s immobile and (shockingly) interceptors aren’t, but if it was like an attack drone and followed its target around, that’d be much more useful, and actually somewhat targeted at interceptors (it’s have to have its damage nerfed to compensate of course). I’m not so sure about the idea of EWAR drones though, seems like you’re just duplicating the functionality of existing tackler modules there.