Swap Tackler and CovOps around

Just sort of sprang to mind while rambling in an attempt to cure insomnia; the Tackler and Covert Ops classes feel like they need to be swapped around.

 

Consider: Fighters are meant to be powerful ships, focused primarily on heavy damage, with moderate survivability and speed. Good all rounders, in other words. Interceptors are meant to be fast but fragile, able to fly in, perform a task and then extract before serious pain gets sent their way.

 

Now consider the two classes - Covert Ops is more or less pure damage, with White Noise to stop lock-dependent counterattacks and another to help it make a quick exit. Tacklers have a wide range of shiny toys to help them weaken enemies, deal damage and get out of dodge before the pain kicks in.

 

Lets just break them down in detail, and maybe you’ll see why the Tackler should be an Interceptor, and the Covert Ops a Fighter. Consider:

 

COVERT OPS:

Special Module - Plasma Web. Deals direct damage over time.

Plasma Arc - Lots of direct damage.

Orion - Damage boost for a short time.

White Noise - Temporary protection from target locks from a single target to help ship escape.

Chameleon - Temporary protection from target locks from all targets to help ship escape.

Self Destruct - AoE damage (at the expense of your life).

 

Compare to:

GUNSHIP:

Special Module - Increased speed and damage.

Shield Overload - AoE damage (at the expense of shields).

Overdrive - Increased critical change (ie: more damage) for a short time.

Engine Overdrive - Increased speed to help ship escape.

Combat Reboot - Temporary invincibility and immunity from debuffs to help ship escape.

 

COMMAND:

Diffusion Shield - Increased survivability.

Valkyrie - Damage boost for self and allies for a short time.

Hull Aura - Increased hull resistance (so ship lives longer) for self and allies.

Shield Aura - Increased shield resistance (so ship lives longer) for self and allies.

Engine Aura - Increased speed for self and allies to help ship escape.

 

Command’s a bit of an oddity, but all three classes fit the same general theme - get in, inflict pain, get out. All three have modules to help them do that. In this setup, Covert Ops becomes the assassin fighter; it maximises damage up close at point blank range and has modules that help lock down potential dangers and keep enemies in check until the job’s done. Gunships are solid all-range fighters, but at the expense of having no crowd control beyond their dakka, and an emergency shield pop. Commands don’t have much in the way of direct damage boosts, but they’re also (in theory) the hardest fighter to kill, making them an ideal choice for defensive engagements and wearing enemies down via attrition.

In this trio, Covert Ops counters enemy ships that rely on abilities to stay alive; Gunships overwhelm high survivability targets; Commands can tank high DPS targets.

 

Now let’s look at Interceptors. How does the Tackler fit in there?

 

TACKLER:

Special Module - Cloak. Invisibility allows for sneaky ambushes or quick escapes.

Target Painter - Debuffs target to make them easier to kill.

Engine Suppressor - Slows target to make them easier to kill.

Inhibitor Beam - Disables target’s afterburners to make them easier to kill.

Sentry / Heavy Sentry - Deploys a stationary drone that can harass targets that are otherwise preoccupied.

 

RECON:

Special Module - Microwarp. Rapid redeployment allows for sneak attacks or quick escapes.

Spy Drone - Prevents enemies cloaking and debuffs their healing to make them easier to kill.

Parasite - Drains enemy shields to make them easier to kill. Also heals the Recon’s shields.

Cloak - Invisibility, mainly for quick escapes.

Micro-Locator - Deploys a stationary drone that prevents ships in its aoe from cloaking, making it harder for them to make surprise attacks or flee from attack.

 

ECM:

Special Module - Metastable Field Generator. Makes ship temporarily invincible and then disables all enemies in range upon deactivation.

Energy Drain - Reduces target’s energy and replenishes ECM’s energy. Low energy = less / no module use.

Stasis - Briefly unplugs the keyboard on target ship, making them easier to kill.

Ion Emitter - Disables weapons and active modules, preventing enemy ship from dealing damage and making them easier to kill.

Weapon Inhibitor - Reduces damage caused by enemy ship, making them less dangerous.

 

See the pattern here? Tackler, Recon and ECM are all primarily about making enemies vulnerable. Of these, the ECM arguably has the best debuffs, but has no direct damage abilities to speak of. Recons can wreck shields, but otherwise their debuffs play the long game - killing enemies by giving away their position or denying them vital healing. They can also redeploy far more quickly. Tacklers, on the other hand, can redeploy more safely due to their long cloak. Their module setup also fits the bill, with the emphasis not on direct damage, but making enemies vulnerable to damage. There is also some overlap with the ECM, giving them a nice synergy.

 

 

I honestly think this way round makes a lot more sense. It might also help with the balance issues that plague the CovOps class in higher tiers - by moving it to Fighter, you effectively make it a larger, but slower target. This in turn makes it more vulnerable, and so more balanced.

 

I doubt it’s a suggestion we’d see implemented, but I’d hope people give it some thought.

well, i don’t see those balance issues with cos present anymore with this patch, and i don’t want two different gunships, so this would be too radical for me. ceptor dogfight has to stay, and the co is the only ceptor who can deal with all three roles in its class if fitted for that specific task. part of the excitement in that however is, that co has no modules to aid him in this, except a team, which again gives every ceptor a fighting chance to escape.

 

the personal dogfights in the middle of a chaotic battlefield are the one thing keeping me hooked to this game - i would hate to lose that by getting a ceptor, which can “slow others” and “cloak around”

 

just imagine if cruise tacklers would be tiny small and fast, without any drawbacks, with their cloaking mechanic, in certain game modes.

 

if the co is so powerful, that it kills stuff too fast, it actually should not, it might be changeable somehow, but it should not come at the cost of the co dishing damage against other ceptors. it is hard enough already imho, to keep moving and hitting other targets. Especially since the coil buffs.

 

they can nerf ecm damage to the ground for all i care, i can’t really grasp anyone who says “the CO is op” but at the same time not see, that the ECM is way more so, if that would be true.

i would hate to lose that by getting a ceptor, which can “slow others” and “cloak around”

mmmm recon?

How does recon slow others besides attacking them with main weapons?

Oh btw kosty, I redid the Charge Accumulation video. Do you want to get the link?

How does recon slow others besides attacking them with main weapons?

Oh btw kosty, I redid the Charge Accumulation video. Do you want to get the link?

Recon has slow missiles, that are awesome

Ahh ok. Forgot about that. Ty for reminder. Each class has 1 special secondary weapon but recon has 2.

So you don’t want to see it?

There are a whole lot of things in the game that need to be changed, but as you can tell, just because someone says it is needed, does not necessarily mean that it will be implemented. I personally can see this going either way, but I like my cloak-fighters and damage-inties. Every class has a specific damage role; Frigates have LRF, Fighters have Gunship, and Inties have CovOps. Denying the Interceptor class a damage role and giving Fighters TWO would mess all sorts of things up. ;p

The roles are fine as they are. You also need to consider that every ship type (interceptor, fighter, frigate) has one class that is particularly tanky, and one that is much weaker.

For interceptors, covert ops tend to be the weakest. For fighters, tackler. For frigates, LRF (or fed engies).

Every ship type has one role that does significantly more damage than the others.

For interceptors, covert ops. Fighters, gunships. Frigates, LRFs.

 

You say fighters are supposed to be well-rounded, and that they are. Gunship has high damage, decent survivability, low-ish maneuverability, but no team support modules. Command has high survivability, ok damage, decent maneuverability, and great team support modules. Tacklers have decent damage, low survivability, high maneuverability, and great team support capabilities (slows and target painter).

 

Interceptors (especially covert ops) are fairly fragile. Sure, ECMs and recons tend to have high survivability, but compared to fighters and frigs, they are pretty squishy. Covert ops especially so once they are stripped of their adaptives.

mmmm recon?

you read me wrong :), i don’t want it to exchange for the only ceptor which has no such aids and relies on pure manouvering in a ceptor fight (the ecm has disables, the recon has shield drain+slowing missiles).

 

Interceptors (especially covert ops) are fairly fragile.

not entirely sure if CO is “especial”, recons are also pretty squishy and some even more so than COs, depending on their faction and tier.

just imagine if cruise tacklers would be tiny small and fast, without any drawbacks, with their cloaking mechanic, in certain game modes.

 

 

Since cruise engine is for Fighters only, an interceptor Tackler would not have it. It would also make sense that it lose it’s drones as well, they would be bigger than the tackler itself…

not entirely sure if CO is “especial”, recons are also pretty squishy and some even more so than COs, depending on their faction and tier.

The only squishy interceptors are Feds, and only if you managed to take down their adaptives, Jericho/Empire interceptors are easily tanking more raw dmg than federation fighters, and not falling much behind fighters within their respective faction. Ability to tank 3 EM torps in the face like a champ, does not qualify as squishy in my book.

Tackler is meant to be the counter to Intys.

 

Tackler ION does great damage, because they can slow ships.

Tacklers are supposed to be counters to interceptors yet interceptors have many, many counters to tacklers. For example, the Recon has Spy Drones and Microlocators to disrupt Tackler cloaking and can itself cloak to disrupt debuffs. Meanwhile, the Covert Ops has White Noise to prevent being debuffed and can disrupt cloaking using the Plasma web. Also, to be honest, the ECM counters everything. It’s Stasis Generator prevents the application of debuffs while Ion Diffuser shuts down currently active debuffs. The energy drain module prevents a tackler from using the Engine Suppressor and Sentry drone. The damage reduction module can help to negate the Tackler Target Painter.

Often times I use the Tackler as part of a team but when an above average interceptor pilot sees me, the pilot focuses me and prevents me from escaping or fighting back with the above Tackler Counters below.

The only squishy interceptors are Feds, …

my bad, i sit too much in feds. because empire is slow, and jerris are shield tanks, …

but again, feds are the damage dealing COs, with the uber manouverability. as i said, generalization won’t work in this matter!

 

i am still up for that adaptive hull nerf. would make all these arguments disappear. and with it all other classes which hull-tank the frig out of adaptive builds. even if that would mean a nerf hitting myself most.

 

 

Tacklers are supposed to be counters to interceptors yet interceptors have many, many counters to tacklers. 

True that, but the most direct counter is still the recon making you visible, having usually weapons which are better against larger targets, and generally damage is always counter to a Tackler.

You are right of course, that this role gets very hard in T5, but that’s because of the ships there too. On the other hand, it is really painful to hunt a cruise tackler.

Also, while I am against too many ceptor nerfs, I do see benefit in some tackling module buffs, instead nerf that stupid drone :slight_smile:

I agree with g4borg for the most part. Tackler slowing modules either need a buff or the F8 implant needs to be tweaked, as it is far too easy for ships to make tacklers useless.

 

If adaptives are to be nerfed (which they should be), I think the resistance they give to the hull to be reduced

9maybe 50%), not completely removed. 

Okay, on the anti-interceptor front.

 

If you swap the roles, then the Tackler remains useful against other Interceptors. In fact, it becomes an anti-interceptor interceptor - an interdictor, if you will. It’s fast enough to run to ground CovOps and Recons, it can slow them and make them weaker, and it can pop a drone to inflict major pain on them. 

The CovOps Fighter also has some anti-interceptor capability, but indirectly - it can stop them making use of their key modules. But it can’t deny them their agility; that role falls on the Guards.