Suggestion / Discussion - Tacklers

Let’s try come up with solutions for this poor class.

 

One thought i had about it was to increase the effectiveness of it’s special module with 2 new effects:

  1. Speed bonus when cloaked;

  2. A few seconds (5 maybe?) of increased damage (and maybe module power) after decloaking - both player forced or effect running out or just the forced one

 

Proton wall should also affect Spy Drones - a spy droned tackler is a dead tackler or has to sit at the back of the map until the effect runs out (well not literally, but you know what i mean)

 

They are squishy as hell, mostly slow (which completely contradicts their class since they have to catch their target to tackle it) and don’t pose a threat at all unless you find yourself behind enemy lines alone as an easy target for focused fire.

 

The only really viable tacklers to successfully make a use of their role now are the ones with 50% range bonus on their specific modules since they can tackle from a safe distance, even when on the offense.

 

If the special module buff doesn’t suit people, then i suggest an overall survivability buff - HP levels and / or modules that would give them an extra escape option or something to allow them to survive.

 

I could use some info on T4-5 tacklers. Just bought the fed R12 one, but didnt use it yet. I did fly against them though and didn’t leave an impression on me of any kind.

 

 

My first thoughts. Looking for more ideas / solutions.

 

EDIT: i would break it down to ‘per ship’ analysis if possible, but didn’t fly many of them, stopped at Silent Fox a while ago after deciding they’re trash.

 

EDIT 2: added poll

 

EDIT 3: explanations for each choice

 

Tackler special and active modules or other tweaks part 1

  1. Speed buff when cloaked

When you activate Chameleon to cloak your ship receives extra base speed while under the effect.

 

  1. Decloak damage buff after-effect

When your ship comes out of the Chameleon effect naturally or forced, you receive temporary extra damage bonus.

 

  1. Increase survivability / agility / speed according to faction

Overall increase in these stats, percentage based, depending on faction (feds more speed and agility, jeri more tank and agility).

If you think you want more separation in this line write a comment, but this option looks reasonable to me as not to leave either faction’s tackler out.

 

  1. Inhibitor Beam should also debuff maneuverability

Self-explanatory. Eventually increased cooldowns.

 

  1. If cloak is forcefully broken (by the tackler’s own pilot) the cooldown till next activation is lower

Self-explanatory.

 

  1. If cloak is forcefully broken (by an enemy) the cooldown till next activation is lower

Self-explanatory.

 

 

Tackler special and active modules or other tweaks part 2

  1. Target painter extra - missiles launched against target receive better turn rates

Every friendly missile launched AFTER the target painter affects the focused enemy ship will have extra rotation bonus. No extra speed. Damage is increased naturally by the resistance debuff. Be aware this can lead to missile spamming, so vote according to that as well.

 

  1. If cloak activates under any detection module effect, the ship remains visible, but not targetable (combat recon captain as an example)

Basically the Spy Drones will retain their full effect on the tackler, except that nothing can lock onto it. Same with Micro-locator. Plasma Web will remain as-is, it is not a detection module (just in case someone was wondering) - this applies to all counter mods.

 

  1. If the Chameleon special cloaking module receives new effects, i want tacklers to receive varied bonuses for them

Self-explanatory. Give the tacklers more role power.

 

  1. I want buffs to the Chameleon special cloaking module only in the form of varied tackler bonuses

If you don’t like the buffs to be global for tacklers, you might want bonuses reworked to give such buffs differently per different ships. Do not treat this option related to the above options, in case the devs also don’t want global effects like that for the Chameleon. Vote as a standalone option, still counts.

 

 

Other stuff i thought about / collected from the discussion

  1. Re-work tackler bonuses per general (into more logical ones - disregard new possible cloak module effects)

If you feel like the tacklers’ bonuses are not set right, vote yes. No or don’t care otherwise. DO NOT VOTE IF  you didn’t learn all their bonuses and tried to understand them.

 

  1. If survivability is increased at point 1.7, decrease agility / speed (according to faction)

Related to part 1, options 7, 8 and 9 (‘Tackler special and active modules or other tweaks part 1’, ‘7 / 8 / 9. Increase survivability / agility / speed according to faction: YES / NO / I DON’T CARE’).

If you think a survivability buff would make them OP and should compensate with the others decreased.

 

  1. If speed / agility is increased at point 1.7, decrease survivability (according to faction)

Same idea as above, but vice-versa.

 

  1. Proton affects spy drones

Self-explanatory.

Tackler’s cloak is the only special module that can be disabled completely, and for 60 seconds!

 

it needs a buff…

 

Currently, anything tackles better than a tackler

 

I would suggest the LoS afterburner inhibitor also reduce enemy rotation & turn speed

I think they should get at least a speed buff, like you said, they are supposed to pursue interceptors, so imho they should have a bonus increasing their speed for 10 or 15%, Jericho tacklers are stupidly slow, and once you’re drones you’re pretty much dead.

 

I like the idea of the bonus speed then cloaked and bonus damage when decloaking. That would make the cloak some offensive utility. I think their survivability is ok, but they indeed need a bonus on the speed or rotation.

Alternatively, just up the tackler’s manoeuvrability. Makes it easier to keep up with intys and dogfight better.

 

 

 

A few seconds (5 maybe?) of increased damage (and maybe module power) after decloaking - both player forced or effect running out or just the forced one

 

This reminds me of a typical MMO assassin. Nifty. It’s also not a iWin button, so I don’t foresee any problems. My only concern would be the resultant recon spam.

Tackler Cloak being easily diabled by Interceptors - the very classes they are meant to be strong against - is one of the main issues. Tacklers are terrified of Recons because of Spy Drone and micro-locator, and they’re too fragile to tank CovOps. ECM shutdown will make them sitting ducks and see them gibbed in short order.

Then you factor in the fact that Recon and CovOps can shrug off the debuffs and it’s no wonder Tacklers feel so weak.

Tackler Cloak being easily diabled by Interceptors - the very classes they are meant to be strong against - is one of the main issues. Tacklers are terrified of Recons because of Spy Drone and micro-locator, and they’re too fragile to tank CovOps. ECM shutdown will make them sitting ducks and see them gibbed in short order.

Then you factor in the fact that Recon and CovOps can shrug off the debuffs and it’s no wonder Tacklers feel so weak.

 

I really, really want to disagree with you, but alas I cannot.

Actually I think Fed Tacklers are fine. 

 

The Jerry ones are just abysmally bad. They need something… more damage is not an option, so why dont buff their survivability a LOT!

Actually I think Fed Tacklers are fine. 

 

Tacklers don’t have obvious flaws; they’re mediocre and don’t really have the ability to shine in whatever they do =(

 

 

 

The Jerry ones are just abysmally bad. They need something… more damage is not an option, so why dont buff their survivability a LOT!

 

I’ve only tried out the Katana AE. It does feel a bit fragile… I’m not sure if they really need a survivability boost.

 

 

And I just realized that “TP-ing” has a double meaning to it…

Tacklers don’t have obvious flaws; they’re mediocre and don’t really have the ability to shine in whatever they do =(

I think Tacklers have plenty of obvious flaws. If you wanted a “jack of all trades” ship then I’d say look no further than the Command. It’s got Buffs so you can hang back and play quasi-medic (you don’t heal, but you reduce damage allies take), you can use speed boost modules to play area denial, you can use damage buffs and be aggressive or you can focus on energy and be a tank with the Diffusion Shield. Really, a Command can fill almost any role on the field… Tacklers? Not so much. I’ve never seen a Tackler that can tank worth a damn, their DPS is nothing special, they can be fast I suppose but other Fighters are faster… really, all they have going for them is their Debuffs. They aren’t all-rounders; they’re one-trick-ponies with at least three good counters to their trick.

 

I’ve only tried out the Katana AE. It does feel a bit fragile… I’m not sure if they really need a survivability boost.

 

Katana AE is fine, Silent Fox is very fragile I would say. Fed Tackies are more designed to be pursuers, while jerry ones are not fast enough to be anything more than long range assasin. The problem is their special module - too easy to interrupt. Spy drone, micro locator, pulsar, mines…At least cloak cuts off absorbs and any modules that need LoS.

I would suggest the LoS afterburner inhibitor also reduce enemy rotation & turn speed

Good idea. But not by much to suddenly make them OP.

 

This reminds me of a typical MMO assassin. Nifty. It’s also not a iWin button, so I don’t foresee any problems. My only concern would be the resultant recon spam.

That is at least 1 part of what they are supposed to be. Not sure how much recon spam would be there if protons affected their mods tho.

 

Tackler Cloak being easily diabled by Interceptors - the very classes they are meant to be strong against - is one of the main issues. Tacklers are terrified of Recons because of Spy Drone and micro-locator, and they’re too fragile to tank CovOps. ECM shutdown will make them sitting ducks and see them gibbed in short order.

Then you factor in the fact that Recon and CovOps can shrug off the debuffs and it’s no wonder Tacklers feel so weak.

True. The most easily countered ship while it has no solid survivability abilities itself. Only the cloak that can be perma-canceled.

 

Actually I think Fed Tacklers are fine. 

 

The Jerry ones are just abysmally bad. They need something… more damage is not an option, so why dont buff their survivability a LOT!

True that fed tacklers look fine, but it’s just because the greater speed. They still need an extra push. Jeri ones are terrible. I don’t think only buffing survivability will help much because once focused they’re dead, whereas the other fighters have nifty tools to escape that are harder to counter.

 

 

I don’t know what to say about rotation buffs. If you debuff the inty near you he should be slow enough to keep track of. Not to mention engine upgrades.

 

True that fed tacklers look fine, but it’s just because the greater speed. They still need an extra push. Jeri ones are terrible. I don’t think only buffing survivability will help much because once focused they’re dead, whereas the other fighters have nifty tools to escape that are harder to counter.

 

 

I don’t know what to say about rotation buffs. If you debuff the inty near you he should be slow enough to keep track of. Not to mention engine upgrades.

 

Greater speed? Jericho Tacklers are as fast as the Commands, and Fed Tacklers are as fast as the Gunships, they don’t have any speed bonus.

Greater speed? Jericho Tacklers are as fast as the Commands, and Fed Tacklers are as fast as the Gunships, they don’t have any speed bonus.

I was comparing jeri vs fed tacklers.

Just dropping my opinion:
+5% (10% is more likely) increase to both hull and shield “health”.
+5% increase to general speed (max speed, reverse speed, acceleration, strafe speed, rotation speed)

Add the possibility to reduce the enemy rotation speed (rework of the speed debuff module).

Add the possibility to “mark” the enemy, much like the Spy Drone effect that makes the enemy visible for everyone no matter the range, because in the end, the Tackler is just a debuffer that debilitates the enemy so his teammates can kill it off.
Rework or remove of the Sentry Drone, because it’s really weak and it stay still as an easy target. Also his RoF ain’t good.

I was comparing jeri vs fed tacklers.

 

Well, my bad. I’m just mad that Tacklers don’t give anything that other Fighters couldn’t give.

I feel that the weakest phase for tacklers is a T3 (looking from Federation line standpoint)

T1 Feds tacklers is simply the best killer in that tier

T2 General lack of knowledge/skill/spy drones/situation awareness makes a tackler a brutal killer as well

T3 ECM and Guard for the most part do same job better, tacklers don’t have any noticeable or direct advantages, even target painter is meh

T4/T5 as long as games are higher than 6v6, so there is no critical need for concentrated versatility in every ship in your line up, tacklers actually not that bad

T4 There is Tiger 2, when it is maxed out, that ship is brutal and easily better at certain roles than t5 counterparts, combination of own effectiveness bonus and an implant with more effectiveness makes it very strong

T5 Lion 2 is 100% squad support xxxxx ship, it can not go out and solo xxxx, but has to stay with the pack and support on taking down focus targets.

What really works for T4 and T5 tacklers is a popularity of Adaptive Shields, everyone and his grand mother runs it so tacklers reduce survivability of alot of ships twice - Target Painter AND CoolDownLess AB shutdown with very noticable range.

I can definitely attest to the power of the Tackler in T1. When I was getting Elite in my T1s the Fed Tacklers were so easy to land kills with. Hell, back when T1 had combat recon the Tackler was the best ship to use - just fly in, cloak, decloak on top of the captain and kill him before anyone knows what’s going on.

 

Tacklers in T2 are only good if the Recons bring the N00b Build of “hull heal, shield heal”. If they actually bring a Spy Drone, then they can lock down Tacklers all day long and render them next to useless.

T4 There is Tiger 2, when it is maxed out, that ship is brutal and easily better at certain roles than t5 counterparts, combination of own effectiveness bonus and an implant with more 

 

I just bought that ship, and I don’t know how to properly fit it. Any tip?  :lol:

I think that instead of buffing the speed of tacklers, give their modules a bonus vs interceptors, for example,

target painter is 50% more effective vs interceptors

engine suppressor: 50% faster recharge when used against an interceptor

inhibitor beam: also reduce maneuverability when used against interceptors

sentry drone: also slows down interceptors

 

I don’t think the federation tacklers need a speed buff, they are already almost as fast as the non-fed interceptors.

I dont know about the jericho tacklers, never played them.

I think it could be good for tackler’s to get combat reboot and gunships to get inhibitor beam or engine suppressor.  Buff tackler’s survivability some and they can be tweaked into frigate hunters and gunships with their engine overcharge and overdrive turn into inty hunters better.

 

The rotation speed idea being added would help a lot as long as it’s not like a miniature stasis.