Star Conflict v.1.2.4 Discussion

Mercenary Center Patch Discussion
101

Bugs are one thing, you can just take a break from the game until they’re fixed; bad system changes are a whole different matter that undermines the players’ trust in you. Aliens/bots in PvP, ridiculous MM, premium ships giving you better teams, periodical mixed tiers, or you taking weeks and months to change it all back to what it was… none of it comes close to the damage done to this game with the previous patch, in my opinion.

 

With just one move, you managed to discourage both the newbies and the vets, and a part of them will never come back, because things like this happen every few months here, despite our most sincere attempts at explaining to you how damaging they are.

 

Although, I have to agree in many things mentioned above like mm issues but there are good changes (imo) here to bring up too.

I actually liked the aliens in PvPs. I always liked it how the appearance of aliens had changed the rhythm of one battle. Sometimes it made both sides work together until the map was cleared, sometimes only one side fought against them and the other just watched but did not take advantage of the situation, and of course sometimes one side did take advantage of the extra help. Little perks like this give a game real entertainment and make it less monotone I think. Of course I understand that aliens in pvp made it impossible to compare real piloting skills.

Another thing is about keeping new players. In my corp about 1/3 or 1/2 of the members are constantly changing. We are a casually playing corp so there is no hard core team playing. Therefore, since our dread was built, we could hardly manage to bring a wing together for a single SQ in a week. Now, during the weekends, we are there at several battle times, we play tournaments and SCL is advancing for us too. What is more, one wing is often not enough during the weekend activities. We might have been lucky to pick some good newbies willing to play but I think it was mostly thanks to the recent changes.  

102

My opinion about the aliens in PvP:

Aliens in PVP is like the naked guy on a soccer match. Annoying and useless. But somebody still find it funny and good idea.
 

Although, I have to agree in many things mentioned above like mm issues but there are good changes (imo) here to bring up too.

I actually liked the aliens in PvPs. I always liked it how the appearance of aliens had changed the rhythm of one battle. Sometimes it made both sides work together until the map was cleared, sometimes only one side fought against them and the other just watched but did not take advantage of the situation, and of course sometimes one side did take advantage of the extra help. Little perks like this give a game real entertainment and make it less monotone I think. Of course I understand that aliens in pvp made it impossible to compare real piloting skills.

Another thing is about keeping new players. In my corp about 1/3 or 1/2 of the members are constantly changing. We are a casually playing corp so there is no hard core team playing. Therefore, since our dread was built, we could hardly manage to bring a wing together for a single SQ in a week. Now, during the weekends, we are there at several battle times, we play tournaments and SCL is advancing for us too. What is more, one wing is often not enough during the weekend activities. We might have been lucky to pick some good newbies willing to play but I think it was mostly thanks to the recent changes.  

It would be good to know how much of your new players coming from other dead corps. My experience is, the corps has less strength some of the big corps already gone and the remaining players trying to find a new corp. I guess your SCL players are not newbies, since to get ships for that you need to play at least 3-4 months.

103

Please use suggestions section for it. I like the idea.  

I already have but i got no answers from developers.

here it is https://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/26216-friend-list-size/#entry310300

104

 (and you will show me the steam chart isn’t it?  :fed001: )

Not sure why the snarky comment. I’ve brought up Steam charts once (1 time, in 2 posts, in 1 thread, to be exact), and given how it’s the only statistical data that you couldn’t ‘keep to yourself’, I don’t see why you dismiss it so easily whenever it’s brought up. You’re the ones bringing the talk down to numbers and you’re the ones not providing any numbers in return.

 

But don’t you think that we know a little more about the ‘whole picture’ (cause we have more sources of information than for example words of some vets

I realise there is a bigger picture, and I’ve mentioned it myself in some of my previous posts.

 

My point is, you should share some of that precious information with us if it’s so positive, because all I see is one corp after another slowly dying. WPK still manages to form a wing or two in the rush hours, though we’ve lost many - MANY - good pilots; most of ESB have moved on to other games; NASA is deadish too; most of American OWLs are gone (or at least so I heard - someone please correct me if I’m wrong here); ANGER and Nova are, uhm, ‘displeased’ too; even mostly PvE corps like Ultra have lost lots of people and are now largely defunct. Vets have been massively quitting SC for a while now.

 

I don’t mean to play fear mongering here, I really don’t, it’s just that you refuse to acknowledge that there is a problem to begin with. You’re losing good players that were actual assets to this community and when you’re called out on this, your only line of defence is that other people like the changes. I get that sometimes you just can’t please everyone, but stuff like I mentioned in my previous post shows that you’re basically fixed on the same three or four ideas, you try to re-introduce them every three or four months and then you change the game back to what it was before the changes, because people hated them.

 

The most annoying part is that stuff like mixing tiers (or removing them entirely for that matter), or mixing PvE and PvP in a gamemode that was PvP only before, is something that should simply not happen in a released game - and from this point of view, the mid-join patch was questionable too (although I didn’t hate it myself); I personally know people who quit just because of that, back in September. These are core elements of the game that cannot be changed at a whim after its release, and if there is really a neccessity for them to be changed in the first place, they need to be seriously discussed with the community beforehand.

 

They were not, not with us anyway, and the pre-release threads on this forum were completely ignored by your ‘end’.

 

tl;dr

different variants of ‘this game used to be better than it is now’ are probably the most reiterated lines on this forum/in the game. And it’s not a new trend, either.

 

All that being said, I’m glad that you’re working on your relations with the English speaking community, I really am, but I’m not going to benefit from that improvement much, because - like many other pilots - I just don’t find the game fun anymore in its current state. It used to be better than it is now.

105

T5 is just the same faces every single time. I could almost list them here.

Is there a block somewhere in lower tiers that’s stopping people from becoming veterans?

This forum is the same. There are rarely any new faces, and when there are they make a couple of posts and then leave. What is the reason for this?

I know I’m asking questions and not giving answers, but this is because the only reason I can find is a dwindling non-RU playerbase, and the devs have assured us that this is not the case (despite steam saying the contrary).

How many new non Russian corps have been created recently? Answer me this please.

106

 

Is there a block somewhere in lower tiers that’s stopping people from becoming veterans?

yes, this block is called ‘current veterans’ (kidding)

 

Not sure why the snarky comment. I’ve brought up Steam charts once

It was not personally to you. Bringing Steam charts in the thread is the favourite amusement of many players on ru and eu forums, for a long time.

 

you’re the ones not providing any numbers in return.

Can’t do it, it’s usual for many online games, don’t reveal the numbers, i think you know that. The last numbers that we revealed were [here](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/28171-september%E2%80%99s-developer-blog/)

 

I realise there is a bigger picture, and I’ve mentioned it myself in some of my previous posts.

 

Glad to hear that.

 

My point is, you should share some of that precious information with us if it’s so positive

 

I didn’t say that this is SO positive. It’s just doesn’t so dramatic as many players like to say.

 

 because all I see is one corp after another slowly dying. WPK still manages to form a wing or two in the rush hours, though we’ve lost many - MANY - good pilots; most of ESB have moved on to other games; NASA is deadish too; most of American OWLs are gone (or at least so I heard - someone please correct me if I’m wrong here); ANGER and Nova are, uhm, ‘displeased’ too; even mostly PvE corps like Ultra have lost lots of people and are now largely defunct. Vets have been massively quitting SC for a while now.

 

But we have Radix and Arctic! Ok, let’s be serious, i partially agree with you. The situation with corps may be better. 

 

 it’s just that you refuse to acknowledge that there is a problem to begin with

 

No we don’t, that’s why we decided to try create a new form of dialogue with corps leaders and other opinion leaders (as i said more info is coming)

 

 personally know people who quit just because of that, back in September.

 

Sad to hear that, but as you said we can’t please everyone, some players always don’t like the big changes. In all games.

 

 

These are core elements of the game that cannot be changed at a whim after its release, and if there is really a neccessity for them to be changed in the first place, they need to be seriously discussed with the community beforehand.

 

Well, why? Why game can’t evolve? Let’s look on this from the other side, we just leave game in the state before september, we abandon it, we keep collecting money from it and we don’t even think about it - is it right way of working with a game? I don’t think so. Is it bad that we love our game and want to evolve it? You probably will say that this is more revolution than evolution, but i don’t think so. Every decision is the result of hard work of game designers, Star Conflict is our number one priority project, most of the people from targem are working on it. We just don’t want to abondon it and believe that project has a future and shouldn’t be in stagnation. A lot of pathos in my words - but it’s true.

And from the other hand we have bugs and lags, this sucks yes, and we are trying to avoid this, but it happens, and we ask just to understand that our resources are limited and sometimes we can’t make all perfect.

Btw, will change our servers this week, i hope this will help with lags.

 

They were not, not with us anyway, and the pre-release threads on this forum were completely ignored by your ‘end’.

 

Not true, feedback was gathered from public testing discussions. Same for developer blogs. Some decisions were changed after this. 

 

I just don’t find the game fun anymore in its current state

 

Maybe destroyers will change your mind? :slight_smile:

 

 

All that being said, I’m glad that you’re working on your relations with the English speaking community, I really am

 

Thank you. 

107

Aliens in PVP is like the naked guy on a soccer match. Annoying and useless. But somebody still find it funny and good idea.

 

:fed_lol: Yes, this is all true. But I like to be entertained in a game. And yes, aliens in PvP are distraction. Also, it’s an AI intervention into the game between players.

I’d still like to see something new in pvp battles. Maybe if aliens would fight with pirates without attacking players while the 2 teams would fight each other leaving them the option to interfere with aliens and pirates.

It would be good to know how much of your new players coming from other dead corps. My experience is, the corps has less strength some of the big corps already gone and the remaining players trying to find a new corp. I guess your SCL players are not newbies, since to get ships for that you need to play at least 3-4 months.

Many of them have been playing for 1-2 months or only for a few weeks. I do monitor the movements closely in our corp and I wouldn’t say that there are many new players if I wouldn’t be sure. Vets get a lot of questions and have to give a lot of advice. (But of course it is just one corp so stats are not representative) There is a constant number of so called vets aka long time ago registered but inactive players though but those usually don’t get in the corp because of our ‘play 4-5 battles a day’ policy.

 

Our SCL team is not made of new players, true. But the SC team made it as a high end content. We still have problems because half of our team is just scratching the surface of t5 and barely equipped for this kind of competition.

108

@Doomb0t

Thank you for your extensive response, however vague.

Well, why? Why game can’t evolve? Let’s look on this from the other side, we just leave game in the state before september, we abandon it, we keep collecting money from it and we don’t even think about it - is it right way of working with a game? I don’t think so. Is it bad that we love our game and want to evolve it? You probably will say that this is more revolution than evolution, but i don’t think so. Every decision is the result of hard work of game designers, Star Conflict is our number one priority project, most of the people from targem are working on it. We just don’t want to abondon it and believe that project has a future and shouldn’t be in stagnation.

 

I don’t know if I’m speaking only for myself here, but the tier system was one of the things that got me hooked on SC in the first place. I liked the idea that the game was separated into different ‘categories’ of sorts, that let you experience it from different perspectives, while allowing you to play at your best once you would achieve another ‘milestone’. In other words, once you unlocked a ship from the middle of a tier or higher (r5+, r8+, r11+), you could just spend a bit leveling it and its gear and everything else would depend on your skill. Whether you win or not, whether you kill or not, whether you die or not.

 

Back when I started in May, there were only two things that I needed to worry about: doomsday missiles in T2 and stats farmers (and they actually taught me quite a bit, for which I was thankful even back then). I would try T3 every now and then, but didn’t really focus on it until I made sure I wouldn’t be a burden for my teams (aka, i gat gud).

 

Now it’s a completely different game. There is no meta-game for every tier, since there are no tiers, and if you’re new, you simply get farmed by, well, everyone. You can’t adjust the pace at which you learn your ropes. You can never get any of the ‘best ships’ until you’ve hit r14+ (or r13 in some cases). You have no choice but to progress.

 

If you’re not new and if the old T5 wasn’t your tier of choice, you’re forced to be either the farmer or the farmed, since most ships still follow the meta-game of the tier they used to be in. If I started the game today and was forced to play against Reverse Thrusters Acid Hydras or Kalahs with T3 Gauss in, well, any r4 ship, I would ragequit after just a few matches.

 

As a relatively ‘old’ pilot, I’m about to ragequit because I can no-longer play what I want. Can’t use some of my most efficient T4 builds on my rank 11 ships anymore, can’t play r13-15 even if I wanted to (which I don’t, because T5 just isn’t for me), because 95% of my purple T4 modules are not equipable by r14+ ships. T4 modules, with very few exceptions, are now mostly merged with T3 ones, so now instead of having e.g. 1 T3 Target Painter and 1 T4 Target Painter, I have two r8-12 Target Painters. It’s a waste of vouchers.

 

Sorry, Destroyers aren’t gonna change that, not for me, and not for quite a few others. Just another class of ships thrown into already unbalanced matches.

 

tl;dr again

Evolution of gameplay - sure; core mechanics of the game should never change after the game has been released.

 

No we don’t, that’s why we decided to try create a new form of dialogue with corps leaders and other opinion leaders (as i said more info is coming)

That’s truly fantastic news, and I hope it works out, but I’m afraid it’s going to have no practical effect on people who’ve already bid their farewells to this game, because it’s no longer what they’ve invested their time, effort and money in. This is the bit that I would like you to understand - some of us just feel cheated. With just one update, the game we spent hundreds and thousands of hours on changed to something entirely different.

109

Is there a block somewhere in lower tiers that’s stopping people from becoming veterans?

Easier opponents, no cookie-cutter builds on some certain ships that might be made of paper but do ridiculous damage, still mass driver spam, one-shot stasis doomsdays, random module cooldowns, speed of everything… Best rank range for now is R10-12. High build diversity, most of modules are avaiable, little chance for OP ship to appear, no ridiculous implants, most of people knowing at least how to fly forward and shoot at red markers.

110

 

Can’t do it, it’s usual for many online games, don’t reveal the numbers, i think you know that. The last numbers that we revealed were [here](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/28171-september%E2%80%99s-developer-blog/)

 

This image doesn’t help at all.

 

2,2 + 1,8 + 2,1 mill spaceship, yes, now you prebuy the 3 started ship to increase the number.

I guess that is the sum of the fleet strengths

 

3000k corporations = 90% is dead or built for abuse the dread system with fake attacks

450k aliens… yes AFK fartmers from last christmas to get the achivement

500k PvP, nice but don’t forget the PVPs are extremely short now. At least we see the PVP should be important.

These datas doesn’t help at all… Ohh it actually helps. You don’t have real good numbers so you only can show the useless ones.

 

About the game I can suggest to all the vets, go and play something else and check the SC in 1-2 month if you still interested in.

 

The discussion with the community would be really nice, but you should be extremely quick and the solutions should come really fast.

 

The corps are dying or already dead.

I don’t say the game will totally die. But for me it is almost dead.

If you don’t start to fix it this year, I’ll probably leave totally.

111

If the rumors regarding custom rank bonuses on craftable ships are true, will they be able to be chosen on ships we’ve already built? Or would we have to disassemble and reconstruct our ship to pick them. I would like assurances that if we do have to disassemble ships to pick rank bonuses for them that we get full resources back from disassembling. That is my big concern for the future. If I have to disassemble for 2/3 my resources just to pick custom bonuses, I’ll most likely kiss this game goodbye.

 

Regarding the current patch, Gizmo is right. To allow a bug like removing rank 4 and 8 bonuses from craftable ships is simply inexcusable. That kind of mistake DID show in testing (and Nuke, one of your testers, actually pointed it out, but no one did anything about it… and you wonder why people get mad at you and hate your game, maybe it’s cuz you really DON’T listen…) Bugs like this should NEVER happen when the patch goes live, as it was easily detectable in testing.

 

Overall thought, this patch is good. Nothing was implemented that is bad for the game, and all the minor additions were good for it. 

 

I am glad to see that measures are being taken to better connect with the English-speaking community, and I can definitely see that, but that is only a small part of what needs to be done. This game needs more players, no one can deny that, but it needs the most growth in North America and Europe. This game has a disproportionate amount of RU players for being an international game, and it is time that the NA/EU population saw an increase. The ONLY way to kickstart that kind of growth is with advertisement. No way around it. This game’s playerbase will continue to dwindle and remain small if no advertisement is done. Big updates aren’t going to increase your playerbase much. As cool as Destroyers sound, and as cool as dreadnoughts sounded before they came out, the simple fact is, they won’t increase your playerbase for the long haul. What good is it to create cool updates if you don’t have anyone to play them?

 

On the note of Destroyers, I severely hope that they will note be manufactured ships with blueprints like I’ve heard. There is already too much grind for monocrystals, and the last thing this game needs is more grind. If Destroyers are to be manufacturable instead of purchasable, monocrystals need to be far easier to get.

 

This patch failed to do several things that need to be changed:

 

  1. Dreadnoughts need to be reworked. The current system is far too easy to abuse.

  2. Matchmaker needs massive improvements. The join-in-progress function is great, but very few kinks were worked out before it was implemented. Balance is still a huge problem, large squads were removed instead of being improved, and the +1/-1 rank queuing system has some issues that the tier-system didn’t have.

  3. No advertisement has been done…

  4. Weekend tournaments need to stop pairing the high ELO teams down to a team that has lost a battle. This has made it far too easy for the elite RU corps to farm GS on weekends by abusing the mechanic that allows them to play vs the same team twice in a row (or play vs a team that has lost a game, period). 

To name a few of the bigger ones…

 

On the note of squads, removing large squads from pvp was a horrible idea. Team-based games always need a way for people to play with their friends in pvp, at any stage of the game. Organized squads should not be restricted to end-game or special modes like dreadnoughts or tournaments, it needs to be available everywhere. I don’t know what the gaming culture in other countries is like, but in the United States, sitting down to play with your friends is the most important aspect of gaming. If you prevent people from doing this, you are going to have a hard time keeping a US player base (whether you care about US players or not, it is undeniable that a large US playerbase will be a large source of income for any game).

 

For me, like Gizmo, this game is dying. The “stats” you provided about this game don’t really show anything. I probably won’t stick around this game much longer if no advertisement campaign begins before the end of the year, if squads are not put back, and if big problems, like many of the ones present, remain in the game.

112

I liked this patch. facing a four man squad of vets was no fun. Sure i may suck, but you cant just have pro players in a game. And if four guys in a squad are terminating everything on the other team, they’re sucking the whole fun out of that match for everbody else instead of them.

 

Now mind you, removing 4 man squads all together wouldn’t be the direction that i would’ve chosen.

I’m no developer, but matchmaker tweaks could have sorted this, i presume.

 

Of course, advertising and increasing the player pool should help alot too. If your not facing the same op vets every match, it helps alot. And yes, as i’ve said, i suck, but the game should be fun for everybody. For vets and n oobs alike.

 

fly safe

113

Have not updated my client to 1.2.4 yet, but logged in to upvote Coalition / COGs’ post.  Dirk is also right, the grind is too much. As a F2P player, it’s doable to compete with GS customers, but the grind is just not fun. Coupled with vets farming newbs (I see your joke, Doomb0t), I can see how the grind is just not worth it for most new players.

 

The basic question to be asking is, does the team behind Star Conflict feel satisfied with the state of the game? And if not, will the current trajectory take it to a satisfactory state? If not, the only way to see success is to rethink the core mechanics of the game.

 

Otherwise, the game may not die, but it will stagnate. Like Ace Online (RIP SCO). =(

114

For me, like Gizmo, this game is dying. The “stats” you provided about this game don’t really show anything. I probably won’t stick around this game much longer if no advertisement campaign begins before the end of the year, if squads are not put back, and if big problems, like many of the ones present, remain in the game.

This game is like WoW, it has been dying since I joined 2 years ago. Veterans leave, new players come to take their places. That is the normal flow on any online games.

 

Do you dislike the current MM and metagame stage of the game? Well, you are doing all you can, give constructive feedback, but the devs can choose to listen to your opinion or just keep with their own bussiness and vision of how their game should be.

 

If in the end you don’t like it, there are plenty more games out there. Thank the devs for the hundreds of hours you spent in this game and move on.

 

Or you can just write yet another “trendy” topic announcing your departure. It looks like it is cool these days.

115

Only that, to me this is the only game so far that managed to keep me interested, intellectually and socially. I’ve been looking for a new one for months, but no other game meets my needs. :/ 

Plus, all time invested into this game makes it really hard to simply toss it aside, and move on. 

Yeah… I’m a junkie :confused:  

116

Only that, to me this is the only game so far that managed to keep me interested, intellectually and socially. I’ve been looking for a new one for months, but no other game meets my needs. :/ 

Plus, all time invested into this game makes it really hard to simply toss it aside, and move on. 

Yeah… I’m a junkie :confused:  

Maybe that is why I’m not that fatalist about this game. I play other games as well. World of Tanks, World of Warships, Smite, Starcraft 2, Heroes of the Storm…

 

I have to admit I go back to Star Conflict when I’m in a losing streak in any of the previous games, because if something is good about Star Conflict, is that you can still carry a game alone, which is much more difficult to do in the other games.

117

Maybe that is why I’m not that fatalist about this game. I play other games as well. World of Tanks, World of Warships, Smite, Starcraft 2, Heroes of the Storm…

 

I have to admit I go back to Star Conflict when I’m in a losing streak in any of the previous games, because if something is good about Star Conflict, is that you can still carry a game alone, which is much more difficult to do in the other games.

Yes it sounds possible, I would care less too, if only I had some other game or w/e thing to retreat to. 

118

You don’t have real good numbers so you only can show the useless ones.

 

lies!

on average:

500k games/year

1370 games/day

57 games/hour

*divided in to 5tiers*

~10 games/hour in each tier

games use to take ~6min 

therefore if you’d stay in one tier at any given time you could expect game every 6min with same pplz(+/- those which leave and join)

 

another BS conclusion:

Let’s say games were 8v8(you could get up to 12v12 in T1-3 but T4-5 was max 4v4 back then)

so… 5tiers*16players in game=80pplz playin pvp on average at any time >.<

 

*math can be wrong*

GAME HAS AWESOME POPULATION AND IS PERFECTLY FINE!!!

119

lies!

on average:

500k games/year

1370 games/day

57 games/hour

*divided in to 5tiers*

~10 games/hour in each tier

games use to take ~6min 

therefore if you’d stay in one tier at any given time you could expect game every 6min with same pplz(+/- those which leave and join)

 

another BS conclusion:

Let’s say games were 8v8(you could get up to 12v12 in T1-3 but T4-5 was max 4v4 back then)

so… 5tiers*16players in game=80pplz playin pvp on average at any time >.<

 

*math can be wrong*

GAME HAS AWESOME POPULATION AND IS PERFECTLY FINE!!!

There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Motherfucking Lies, and Statistics.

 

Or just another quote: Statistics is the science which tells you that if your neighbour eats 2 chickens every day and you don’t have anything to eat, both of you eat enough to live.

 

Concurrent players at peak hours considering how the steam charts average and the real number of players we could see on the beta correlated, must be around 2500 - 3000 players total. Maybe more since I expect some people to play on ARC (which wasn’t available before) and that the Russian advertisement is usually higher than the non russian one.

 

In fact I remember the servers started to give the “you are in server queue” message to join after the 3000 people barrier was broken, so on Weekends prime we maybe reach over 3000 concurrent players easy, with peaks of 4000 or even 5000 at tournament times.

 

But again, that is based in statistics, and it can be wrong.

 

All I can see is that the game must be working and getting benefits, since they have been hiring people, and adding new stuff. That means they are spending more than on just server maintenance, so they have to get some revenue from the game.

120

There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Propaganda , and Statistics.