You are welcome to discuss the patch here.
I Like the idea of the new tourney system, I like the changes to equipment and to synergy in general because it seems like a good way to limit the disadvantage of people grinding ships versus those farming in the leveling path. I’m not a fan of mixed tiers because of ship, equipment, and synergy differences, and I am not sure why Ions got a buff. I am not sure how I feel about commander changes.
The new ranking system makes it too easy to take high tier equipment and use it on lower tier ships to farm even lower tier ships. If I want, I can take my apollo into battles with people that have a mixture of T4 and T3 ships. I can only imagine how much worse it is for newer players around tier 2 to encounter this sort of thing, and trust me, it is indeed farming people that cannot fight back. As someone who has quite regularly used Ion Emitters in a very offensive method of play, I gladly welcome a buff to my primary weapon but not in good conscience unless you can explain to me exactly why It was buffed.
Here is a video that shows some of my concerns. I would have shown some at the lower tiers as well but, I cannot in good conscience pubstomp defenseless players. Even this was pushing my limit for dishonorable gameplay.
I Like the idea of the new tourney system, I like the changes to equipment and to synergy in general because it seems like a good way to limit the disadvantage of people grinding ships versus those farming in the leveling path. I’m not a fan of mixed tiers because of ship, equipment, and synergy differences, and I am not sure why Ions got a buff. I am not sure how I feel about commander changes.
The new ranking system makes it too easy to take high tier equipment and use it on lower tier ships to farm even lower tier ships. If I want, I can take my apollo into battles with people that have a mixture of T4 and T3 ships. I can only imagine how much worse it is for newer players at tier 2 to encounter this sort of thing, and trust me, it is indeed farming people that cannot fight back. As someone who has quite regularly used Ion Emitters in a very offensive method of play, I gladly welcome a buff to my primary weapon but not in good conscience unless you can explain to me exactly why It was buffed.
Here is a video that shows some of my concerns. I would have shown some at the lower tiers as well but, I cannot in good conscience pubstomp defenseless players. Even this was pushing my limit for dishonorable gameplay.
Thank you for the comment. Yes, some parts of the new system still should be adjusted. Currently we are gathering feedback and stats about using high-rank equipment on the lower ships.
New patch, new review. I’ll try to do this every time from now on. No punches pulled, and all respect and compliments given when earned.
So let’s dive in.
Reference Key for Ratings:
[+++] EXCELLENT addition or change. A defining part of what makes this patch make the game awesome.
[++] Great addition. Useful, cool, interesting, or relevant to balance in a very positive way.
[+] Good addition. Nothing major, but a positive addition.
[=] Indifferent addition. Neither good nor bad, and uninteresting.
[==] Extremely indifferent addition. I question why time was taken to make this change.
[= +] Indifferent to it, but good for the game.
[= -] Indifferent to it, but bad for the game.
[-] Poor addition. Nothing major, but has potential to detriment the player experience.
[–] Bad addition. Significant enough to actively detriment the player experience, and more likely than not will do the opposite of what it was intended to do.
[—] INFURIATING AND AWFUL addition or change. Significantly hinders player experience. Ruins something important. Decisions like this can legitimately KILL games.
Color Key for Final Results:
Excellent patch. This patch makes me glad to be playing Star Conflict, and glad to be part of its community. I look forward to much more like this. [8 - 10/10]
Good patch. However, some changes that are in it still cause concern. [6 - 7.9/10]
Not-so-excellent patch. This patch makes me worry about Star Conflict’s future, though it may offer some hope to counteract this. [4 - 5.9/10]
This patch is bad. Some part of it will likely cause an exodus of players on a significant scale, and might bring me with them. Some or all of it needs to be rescinded, and fast. [0-3.9/10]
Ratings of 1.2.3:
[+++] Switch to rank-based effects, particularly the ability to allow multiple rank-groupings of modules on a ship. This makes leveling much easier as players can bring pseudo-purple gear on a ship they just acquired. Though the learning curve is a bit high, this dramatically improves the ability for new players to perform better as they rank up. Fantastic move on StarGem’s part, kudos.
[++] Addition of Leagues. Great idea, wary of the execution due to recon spam and small team sizes. Though I disagree with full-blown 8v8 matches as that begins to offer significant coordination hurdles, I do think that 6v6 should be the norm in the future. Go Team BACON!
[++] Command module changes - Very good, glad to see. Offers more interactivity in the same way Engineer changes did.
[+] PvE missions having more immersion. Nice touch, hope to see more of it.
[+] Bug fixes, especially to the Robot in Empire hangar. Glad the little things are being monitored and resolved.
[=+] Changes to Mass Driver / Destructor / Ion Emitter. I very much like the visual change to the Ions, but unfortunately this wasn’t stated in the notes.
[=+] Changes to Dreadnoughts, mainly the fix to pubqueues doing damage. Unsure what to think about the rest yet, so this rating may change.
[=] Balance changes to Fire Support’s Cruiser turrets. Not sure if this was needed, the real issue seems like it would be the state of enemies in the earlier waves.
[–] Still refusing to make Mass Driver, Phase Suppressor, and Flux Phaser modules available for public purchase. I’ll say it again, if any object is offered as an exclusive and has real functionality (rather than exclusive textures, taunts, etc.) IT MUST ** BE OPENLY OFFERED LATER.** It is completely acceptable to release functional exclusives if there is intent to provide them in the future. It’s fine to give them and then wait a few weeks to a month to make them public, but it has to happen. And honestly, at this point we should know it will. Functional exclusives can destroy balance if left unchecked. Don’t let this happen here.
EDIT: Changed this point due to feedback from devs about these weapons. The score has increased somewhat as a result.
[—] Squad change to maximum of 2 players only. I’m sorry but this is unforgivable. It would earn four minuses if such a rating existed. No other game punishes people for playing with their friends while simultaneously creating an experience where people desperately want to play with their friends! Squadding needs to be opened up and be _easier _to access, which indirectly solves the ‘killsquad’ problem which likely caused this change. As only a very small percentage of the playerbase has access to ‘T5’, now R13-15, most players will never get to play in a squad higher than 2. Rather than make squadding easier, the devs made it worse! If anything in this patch could cause the game to die overnight, this is it. For real. You’ll be hearing from me about this very often in the days to come. Stop being afraid of sealclubbing killsquads, and start looking into a way to reduce their impact without ruining the game for everyone else. Creating a feature that allows players to report other players for farming/sealclubbing/etc in game would be a good start.
Final Result: 5.5/10. Patch 1.2.3 offers many good ideas and reasonable potential, but ultimately fails to address several critical issues and in doing so could make things much worse.
[This result has been improved slightly due to recent feedback regarding the potential future availability of Miss Summer Weapons. That was all I asked for - I don’t need the actual weapons to be available now, but I do need the knowledge that they’re coming at some point.]
The real killer, however, was failing to introduce and explain these changes in detail ahead of time. The players should have at least a week to know the full extent of the changes so we can both prepare ourselves, give our feedback before any damage is done, and provide the dev team the time and chance to explain their changes to us and ease concerns. I will take points off of every patch score until this begins to happen.
As I have not yet had ample opportunity to review the change to rank-based queueing, I have yet to offer my opinion on it. It carries no rating value until then. Keep an eye on this post, as it may change when the rating is given.
You are welcome to discuss the patch here.
Keeping us from PvPing with friends is an incredibly stupid move. You do know you’re supposed to be developing a multiplayer game, right? Instead of doing the laziest possible solution why not do it right? If you’re that worried about PUGs playing against organized groups there are other ways to prevent it. Why not do ELO based matchmaking? That way organized teams who win a lot will play against each other instead of PUGs, but everyone still gets to play with their friends.
Keeping us from PvPing with friends is an incredibly stupid move. You do know you’re supposed to be developing a multiplayer game, right?
+1. Would do so again if I could.
"Modules
System Hack can now hack ‘neutral’ mines"
I have not got to test this yet but I am curious: Is hacking neutral objects considered as an act of aggression and does it make the hacker aggressor or criminal?
If not then it should be.
New patch, new review. I’ll try to do this every time from now on. No punches pulled, and all respect and compliments given when earned.
Thank you for these arguments, it’s always a pleasure to read constructive feedback.
[+++] Switch to rank-based effects, particularly the ability to allow multiple rank-groupings of modules on a ship. This makes leveling much easier as players can bring pseudo-purple gear on a ship they just acquired. Though the learning curve is a bit high, this dramatically improves the ability for new players to perform better as they rank up. Fantastic move on StarGem’s part, kudos.
[++] Addition of Leagues. Great idea, wary of the execution due to recon spam and small team sizes. Though I disagree with full-blown 8v8 matches as that begins to offer significant coordination hurdles, I do think that 6v6 should be the norm in the future. Go Team BACON!
[++] Command module changes - Very good, glad to see. Offers more interactivity in the same way Engineer changes did.
[+] PvE missions having more immersion. Nice touch, hope to see more of it.
**[+] **Bug fixes, especially to the Robot in Empire hangar. Glad the little things are being monitored and resolved.
[=+] Changes to Mass Driver / Destructor / Ion Emitter. I very much like the visual change to the Ions, but unfortunately this wasn’t stated in the notes.
[=+] Changes to Dreadnoughts, mainly the fix to pubqueues doing damage. Unsure what to think about the rest yet, so this rating may change.
[=] Balance changes to Fire Support’s Cruiser turrets. Not sure if this was needed, the real issue seems like it would be the state of enemies in the earlier waves.
Thanks. Why I still do not see team BACON in the leaderboard?
[—] Still refusing to make Mass Driver, Phase Suppressor, and Flux Phaser modules available for public purchase. I’ll say it again, any object offered as an exclusive that has real functionality (rather than exclusive textures, taunts, etc.) IT MUST ** BE OPENLY OFFERED LATER.** It is completely acceptable to release functional exclusives if there is intent to provide them in the future. It’s fine to give them and then wait a few weeks to a month to make them public, but it has to happen. And honestly, at this point we should know it will. Functional exclusives can destroy balance if left unchecked. Don’t let this happen here.
As I said before, there will be a possibility to gain these guns in future. Pretty soon. But not now.
[—] Squad change to maximum of 2 players only. I’m sorry but this is unforgivable. It would earn four minuses if such a rating existed. No other game punishes people for playing with their friends while simultaneously creating an experience where people desperately want to play with their friends! Squadding needs to be opened up and be _easier _to access, which indirectly solves the ‘killsquad’ problem which likely caused this change. As only a very small percentage of the playerbase has access to ‘T5’, now R13-15, most players will never get to play in a squad higher than 2. Rather than make squadding easier, the devs made it worse! If anything in this patch could cause the game to die overnight, this is it. For real. You’ll be hearing from me about this very often in the days to come. Stop being afraid of sealclubbing killsquads, and start looking into a way to reduce their impact without ruining the game for everyone else. Creating a feature that allows players to report other players for farming/sealclubbing/etc in game would be a good start.
I understand your position. But squads were too overpowered, they just annihilated all, no one could withstand against them. Large squads are for hardcore players and vets, just like you. And all vets have access to Leagues (which are in the test mode now, maybe allowed ranks will be also reconsidered).
The real killer, however, was failing to introduce and explain these changes in detail ahead of time. The players should have at least a week to know the full extent of the changes so we can both prepare ourselves, give our feedback before any damage is done, and provide the dev team the time and chance to explain their changes to us and ease concerns. I will dock points to every patch until this begins to happen.
Well, we wrote special developer blogs about changes and we also organized public tests. But yes, you are right, changes are too serious and we need more feedback about it.
Keeping us from PvPing with friends is an incredibly stupid move. You do know you’re supposed to be developing a multiplayer game, right? Instead of doing the laziest possible solution why not do it right? If you’re that worried about PUGs playing against organized groups there are other ways to prevent it. Why not do ELO based matchmaking? That way organized teams who win a lot will play against each other instead of PUGs, but everyone still gets to play with their friends.
We tried ELO-based mm with squads and it didn’t work, squads were too imbalanced. Why don’t you want to play in Leagues? You are pretty skillful and experienced player.
I feel kind of weird posting this in defense of this patch, since I was the one whining about MM a few weeks back, but I think the devs’ decision on squads and the special event weps is OK (for now). They’ll probably be unlocked in-game soon for the winter holidays, right? Plus I don’t think any of them are necessarily OP or anything, anyway.
Also, the MM actually seems half decent now, I am getting some games from 3v3 to 8v8-ish in T3 PvP US today. R9 vs R10 does not seem too bad, particularly if the R10 ships are new and the pilots aren’t the best. The problems that remain here are the lag when players join and the sporadic waiting periods in between matches. Sometimes queue is quick for a few matches in a row and you see the same players, and then all of a sudden it will make you wait 5 minutes for the next match. I suspect the main problem is still low player pool in queue, which is the real issue that needs to be addressed. For disclosure, I am mainly a solo-queuer.
WT has like 10k+ active daily players, whereas Star Conflict is probably 500-1k or so. Why not leverage the WT playerbase more, or assign someone to community outreach / PR / social media to garner interest so that the playerbase grows?
We tried ELO-based mm with squads and it didn’t work, squads were too imbalanced. Why don’t you want to play in Leagues? You are pretty skillful and experienced player.
Then you didn’t do it right or it was bugged. You fix it, you don’t throw the baby out with the bath water and scrap the whole system. Why don’t I play in leagues? First of all they’re not available all the time, just at specific times. For another thing they’re only for ranks 13-15 according to http://star-conflict.com/en/community/diary/61/current/. My highest ship is rank 8. That’s like if I wanted to join a local cycling club and you told me to join the Tour de France. It’s not a useful suggestion. If I have to wait through months of grinding to get to the best ships in the game before I can play my multiplayer game like a multiplayer game I’ll just quit instead and go play something that wasn’t designed irrationally.
So far I think this is a good patch.
The new rank based MM is great, I was testing it yesterday, and it works really well. I had both rank 12 games and rank 13 games with my King nibelung. I have to test it with some rank 7 ships, to see if you really can play now with them.
The rank based modules feels ok I think. It annoys me that some modules are rank 12 and above only, like the TTC. I expect people with the very old Tier 3 TTC will also have their TTC removed to rank 12. But the new tweaked numbers mean that some ships have a bit better performance. My Panther build went from 500 m/s speed to 517.
Also, rank 12 ships now are really, really powerful, and pretty much almost equal to rank 15 ships, since you can fit rank 15 modules on them. I like that A LOT.
Thank you for these arguments, it’s always a pleasure to read constructive feedback.
Happy to do so. Thank you for your quick responses! 
Thanks. Why I still do not see team BACON in the leaderboard?
I can’t log in to my normal account on this computer thanks to the ‘maximum account’ limit, and my regular one got bricked and is in the shop for repair. I’ve logged in on a third computer, but I only get about 9 FPS on there, so I don’t exactly intend to compete with that kind of equipment.
Soon, I hope.
As I said before, there will be a possibility to gain these guns in future. Pretty soon. But not now.
As long as it happens at all. My main concern is that there was no public statement saying it would happen. I’m willing to wait, again so long as that wait actually ends up with the expected result.
I understand your position. But squads were too overpowered, they just annihilated all, no one could withstand against them. Large squads are for hardcore players and vets, just like you. And all vets have access to Leagues (which are in the test mode now, maybe allowed ranks will be also reconsidered).
I don’t disagree, but quite a few players join this game as part of a multi-friend group, often of three or four friends. Preventing them from playing together will very heavily damage their experience, and those are the new players that we need most - enfranchised gamers that dig in and are willing to support this game on a serious level. If I’d joined when this change was around, I might not have stayed. I joined to play with my friends too.
Well, we wrote special developer blogs about changes and we also organized public tests. But yes, you are right, changes are too serious and we need more feedback about it.
Thank you for acknowledging this. I’m appreciative of the developer blogs and public tests, don’t get me wrong. But ultimately this sort of information needs to be available long before it’s the new game we see in front of us.
I feel kind of weird posting this in defense of this patch, since I was the one whining about MM a few weeks back, but I think the devs’ decision on squads and the special event weps is OK (for now). They’ll probably be unlocked in-game soon for the winter holidays, right? Plus I don’t think any of them are necessarily OP or anything, anyway.
Also, the MM actually seems half decent now, I am getting some games from 3v3 to 8v8-ish in T3 PvP US today. R9 vs R10 does not seem too bad, particularly if the R10 ships are new and the pilots aren’t the best. The problems that remain here are the lag when players join and the sporadic waiting periods in between matches. Sometimes queue is quick for a few matches in a row and you see the same players, and then all of a sudden it will make you wait 5 minutes for the next match. I suspect the main problem is still low player pool in queue, which is the real issue that needs to be addressed. For disclosure, I am mainly a solo-queuer.
There’s good stuff in it to defend, so I don’t blame you.
WT has like 10k+ active daily players, whereas Star Conflict is probably 500-1k or so. Why not leverage the WT playerbase more, or assign someone to community outreach / PR / social media to garner interest so that the playerbase grows?
Seems like a good idea. They did this before, no reason they couldn’t do it again.
I feel kind of weird posting this in defense of this patch, since I was the one whining about MM a few weeks back, but I think the devs’ decision on squads and the special event weps is OK (for now).
Thank you!
Plus I don’t think any of them are necessarily OP or anything, anyway.
They were
Also, the MM actually seems half decent now, I am getting some games from 3v3 to 8v8-ish in T3 PvP US today. R9 vs R10 does not seem too bad, particularly if the R10 ships are new and the pilots aren’t the best. The problems that remain here are the lag when players join and the sporadic waiting periods in between matches. Sometimes queue is quick for a few matches in a row and you see the same players, and then all of a sudden it will make you wait 5 minutes for the next match. I suspect the main problem is still low player pool in queue, which is the real issue that needs to be addressed. For disclosure, I am mainly a solo-queuer.
Agree. We still have things to adjust. But it takes time and demands a good constructive feedback.
Star Conflict is probably 500-1k or so
It’s significantly more.
(Tagging along with Eviscerador’s post) ^It would be nice to get Cooler engine and the missile reload hull module back in <=R8 though. Not the most critical, but those are useful options to have in T3.
It’s significantly more.
Also, the MM actually seems half decent now, I am getting some games from 3v3 to 8v8-ish in T3 PvP US today. R9 vs R10 does not seem too bad, particularly if the R10 ships are new and the pilots aren’t the best. The problems that remain here are the lag when players join and the sporadic waiting periods in between matches. Sometimes queue is quick for a few matches in a row and you see the same players, and then all of a sudden it will make you wait 5 minutes for the next match. I suspect the main problem is still low player pool in queue, which is the real issue that needs to be addressed. For disclosure, I am mainly a solo-queuer.
I worry that the ranking system change will cause a variant of ‘create-your-own-format’, which ultimately reduces player counts due to the reduced chances of players having matching ship ranks that let them play together.
This isn’t a problem in games with very large populations, but I worry about this game’s ability to support it. I guess we’ll see.
Then you didn’t do it right or it was bugged. You fix it, you don’t throw the baby out with the bath water and scrap the whole system.
Why don’t you want to play in Leagues with your teammates? I admit that squad decision was a hard decision for us, but it makes the game better for all players. Not only for vets as it was.
I can’t log in to my normal account on this computer thanks to the ‘maximum account’ limit, and my regular one got bricked and is in the shop for repair. I’ve logged in on a third computer, but I only get about 9 FPS on there, so I don’t exactly intend to compete with that kind of equipment.
Could you please write here about accounts issue? They should help.
And leagues are almost impossible to find information about. Both wikis don’t show any search results. Google only gave me that one link and nothing else useful.
Why don’t you want to play in Leagues with your teammates? I admit that squad decision was a hard decision for us, but it makes the game better for all players. Not only for vets as it was.
Could you please write here about accounts issue? They should help.
First post edited with reasons.
So far I think this is a good patch.
The new rank based MM is great, I was testing it yesterday, and it works really well. I had both rank 12 games and rank 13 games with my King nibelung. I have to test it with some rank 7 ships, to see if you really can play now with them.
Also, rank 12 ships now are really, really powerful, and pretty much almost equal to rank 15 ships, since you can fit rank 15 modules on them. I like that A LOT.
Evi, your comments are always a music to my ears. Thank you
And leagues are almost impossible to find information about. Both wikis don’t show any search results. Google only gave me that one link and nothing else useful.
Check this. As for wiki we are reworking the whole wiki now, if someone wants to help with the English one, welcome to my pm, we will appreciate this.
To reiterate:
Why don’t I play in leagues? First of all they’re not available all the time, just at specific times. For another thing they’re only for ranks 13-15 according to http://star-conflict.com/en/community/diary/61/current/. My highest ship is rank 8. That’s like if I wanted to join a local cycling club and you told me to join the Tour de France. It’s not a useful suggestion. If I have to wait through months of grinding to get to the best ships in the game before I can play my multiplayer game like a multiplayer game I’ll just quit instead and go play something that wasn’t designed irrationally.
Evi, your comments are always a music to my ears. Thank you
Check this. As for wiki we are reworking the whole wiki now, if someone wants to help with the English one, welcome to my pm, we will appreciate this.
Compared with the other russian devs (Wargamming) your patches at least make sense (most of the time)
But not everything is flowers and unicorns. There are still some issues which I didn’t want to mention again.
-
Games are still too short.
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The issue with combat recon matches still is there
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Joining already lost (or won) games is annoying.
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Summer weapons are still not available to general public or new players.
I think the new rank stuff is really good, and a step in the right direction, but there are still some issues you shouldn’t forget about.
Also, I didn’t test leagues yet. I was busy with Legacy of the Void these past days.