Star Conflict OBT v0.9.1 Discussion

Mercenary Center Patch Discussion
381

I actually poked my head back in here on the forums to see the recent changes at the behest of one of my customers. I’m sadly not surprised or amazed by the continuing trend of changes. So many before me have pointed out details so I’ll simply say this… The dev team appears to be technically skilled in their area’s of focus, but as a whole they come off as amateur, or without focused leadership, at best. Your changes are rarely popular on these forums, yet touted as “positively” received in some other mysterious place. When one searches for this majority of positive feedback on your other forums none can be found, but is explained that your team is receiving said feedback via pm’s an ingame… ludicrous.

 

I’m now actively steering my gaming customers away from your product, while using it as a prime example of a great idea with poor execution. This may sound harsh, but having followed this title from .6 onward, I feel it’s apt. Many will not agree an I respect that. I hope your company makes a turn around however unlikely that may be. I’d consider re-installing Star Conflict on our pc’s for gaming customers should the feedback that’s readily visible from the majority start reflecting positive reception. Your recent changes toward team size, and pointing to custom games as a work around is… baffling. The trend of touting a game design concept then removing or severely restricting it has become the norm far too often.

It’s really quite simple: count the people posting same negative drivel. Not their massively inflated post numbers, but actual headcount.

 

Now compare to concurrent headcount of in game players before and after the patch.

 

The answer to your question about “mysterious place” becomes rather obvious. They draw it from actual server statistics of the game itself.

382

actually, the server stats have dwindled ever so slightly from 2200 just after the patch to 1800 i believe? ;o

 

most of the time i’m on now there are less than 800 players. 400 in lobby.

 

but i’d like to see some actual graphs.

 

from queue numbers it appears like some t1 and t2 have dropped off, not to be replaced by t3s…

 

so if you want somewhere to look… that’s where you’ll find it…

 

i mean seriously, what kind of impression does it paint when your ship has only 1 gun available?

 

did anyone not think that through? ;D but that’s just a tiny fraction of it.

 

personally, i would fire this dude… but that’s just me…

383

flying randomly, i will win almost 60% of the time (and i can boost that to above 60 if i actually try)

 

flying in a squad i could win 70% of the time or more.

 

flying in a squad with gear, and i will win 90% of time…

 

i hope the problem has now been made clear.

 

gear provide a 50-100% advantage within a tier’s rank spread. tier-spread provides even more…

 

i give up. you are hopeless…

you fail to see logic where it exists.

in fact. i bet it’s just ignorance.

Completely making up percentages based on no hard data does not equate to following a logical process. And most of your percentages are obviously pulled out of thin air.

 

Logic dictates considering all the factors as to why a team wins, not just honing in on one symptom that you [want] to be the issue and calling it the primary cause.

 

More likely factors as to why you might win/lose:

 

Team composition - are the pilots on your team using supporting ship roles and flying them effectively in their roles? Most often, the answer is no. I’ve seen many games where everyone flies inties and fighters and there’s no engineer to heal. Or defensive games with no recon actively providing reconnaissance. A good tutorial and mentorship feature to the game would help this. We need to care about teaching new players.

 

Team cohesion - are the pilots flying solo and leaving others out to dry or are they actively trying to protect eachother? You can have all the right composition but if people are just flying to dogfight and not to help eachother out, their teammates die easier, meaning now that 4v4 skirmish just became 4v2 then 4v1, and now you’re getting “owned” by a “4 man kill squad”, blagh.

 

I fly MKII stuff all the time in T3 pvp, and, though I might like the small boost of getting some MkIII or experimental, I don’t think about it, because even when I’m solo, I fly to support other pilots and insodoing the other pilot is helping me out while I help him out, regardless of whether or not he even cares. It’s a novel concept.

 

Lack of teamwork and team cohesion is far more of a reason why people lose than equipment.

 

-Lib

384

@ betatrash: So you started from the massively increased numbers after the patch, went on arbitrary rant about ships only having one weapon slot and ended up suggesting to fire someone you do not specify.

 

 

I stated that you’re incapable of basic logic, but I didn’t go far enough. You’re not even capable of holding a coherent thought long enough to formulate a coherent post.

 

 

@liberty: welcome to T4 when you get there. With attitude like that, you’ll do quite well.

385

you people will just refute all sorts of logic.

 

you yourselves said an organized team will beat random opponents.

 

by that very logic, if my win rate is 60%, it would be at least +25-33% on top of that. 0.6*0.33=0.2, so another 15-20%… 75-80%… you want to argue 70%? ok…

 

no problem… 70% in a squad… and 80% with equipment… done… if not more than that.

 

why give experienced players even more of an advantage?

 

i happen to think completely differently.

 

when i played quake 3, i’d give myself a handicap (-30 health), to gives other a fair chance…

 

imo, that’s the only way a pro player should think…

 

you guys need to learn to troll harder… seriously.

386

you people will just refute all sorts of logic.

you yourselves said an organized team will beat random opponents.

by that very logic, if my win rate is 60%, it would be at least +25-33% on top of that. 0.6*0.33=0.2, so another 15-20%… 75-80%… you want to argue 70%? ok…

no problem… 70% in a squad… and 80% with equipment… done… if not more than that.

why give experienced players even more of an advantage?

i happen to think completely differently.

when i played quake 3, i’d give myself a handicap (-30 health), to gives other a fair chance…

imo, that’s the only way a pro player should think…

you guys need to learn to troll harder… seriously.

The point is that you’re focusing on a symptom, not the disease. You want to keep popping pills to make the pain go away, and we’re telling you - eat right, take your vitamins and exercise. Two different approaches, but only one is going to truly fix the problem.

 

And please stop calling people trolls who voice different opinions than yours.

 

-Lib

387

:facepalm:

So, went up against NASA 4x times today… and they won all four times.

 

Yep, NASA still owns with 3x man squads. Why? Teamwork. The entire time they flew as a team and supported eachother instead of going off on their own.

 

No worries though, next patch squads will be reduced to 2x players max. Then, when they still own, squads will be removed altogether - along with the ability to chat ingame. All ability to communicate between players will be removed because this is an unfair advantage to solo players. Then, when they still own because they can still see allies, the ability to see friendly players ingame will be removed. Then when they win because they’re on fiber and you’re on cable, the game will be converted to a single-player, no internet connectivity game and then the game will finally be “balanced”. We can all rest peacefully knowing this.

 

:facepalm: indeed

 

-Lib

388

So, went up against NASA 4x times today… and they won all four times.

 

Yep, NASA still owns with 3x man squads. Why? Teamwork. The entire time they flew as a team and supported eachother instead of going off on their own.

 

No worries though, next patch squads will be reduced to 2x players max. Then, when they still own, squads will be removed altogether - along with the ability to chat ingame. All ability to communicate between players will be removed because this is an unfair advantage to solo players. Then, when they still own because they can still see allies, the ability to see friendly players ingame will be removed. Then when they win because they’re on fiber and you’re on cable, the game will be converted to a single-player, no internet connectivity game and then the game will finally be “balanced”. We can all rest peacefully knowing this.

 

:facepalm: indeed

 

-Lib

 

EXACTLY! Teamwork shouldn’t be despised!

389

EXACTLY! Teamwork shouldn’t be despised!

Your signature quote is our permanent message of the day in the corp. Good man.

 

Edit: And then I notice your avatar and it all makes sense.

 

-Lib

390

So, went up against NASA 4x times today… and they won all four times.

 

Yep, NASA still owns with 3x man squads. Why? Teamwork. The entire time they flew as a team and supported eachother instead of going off on their own.

 

No worries though, next patch squads will be reduced to 2x players max. Then, when they still own, squads will be removed altogether - along with the ability to chat ingame. All ability to communicate between players will be removed because this is an unfair advantage to solo players. Then, when they still own because they can still see allies, the ability to see friendly players ingame will be removed. Then when they win because they’re on fiber and you’re on cable, the game will be converted to a single-player, no internet connectivity game and then the game will finally be “balanced”. We can all rest peacefully knowing this.

 

:facepalm: indeed

 

-Lib

Those were fun games, and those were very close ones, you guys[LIB] did some magic tricks there  :salute:

391

Yes Guys, true Story. very True. Coesion, team work… exetera.

 

But point is… what s about when u can’t play in team? 

 

At the moment i have none of my squad mates online… but i wanna play. So basically i’m running alone… and for 4 times in a row i got me and 2 randome (not so bad pilots too… it’s just we were randoms … so no coordiantion, no team work, no comunication at all) versus 3 esb (but they could be nasa,nova… hellokyttie funs corp… doesn’t matter)… u can immagine what was the result.

 

Point imho is… team work is cool, but u can’t force people to don’t play at all if, for a reason or another, thay can’t squad up in that moment.

 

 

There should be two different queques… one for team and one for randoms. One for serious matches and one for spend some times playing.

They could (Should!!) even rise the members number up to 6 or 8  … or 12, a full side, too in Team queque.

On the other hands random queue shouldn’t be joinable from team of any kind.

 

 

Actually i don’t thing any other solution is viable.

392

Wow you guys really mixed T3 and T4 together… I was hoping to just stay at T3 but now I have to grind through a bunch of crap for essentially the same content.  Even though I’ve already grinded to max T4 reputation before…  

 

A lot of repetitive tasks;  recollect the same items every tier and T4 being merely a stepping stone to T5…  No sense of progression at all.

 

Ugh really losing the will to keep playing here.

393

The point is that you’re focusing on a symptom, not the disease. You want to keep popping pills to make the pain go away, and we’re telling you - eat right, take your vitamins and exercise. Two different approaches, but only one is going to truly fix the problem.

 

And please stop calling people trolls who voice different opinions than yours.

 

-Lib

 

now you’re trolling too?.. who uses literal idioms and cliches like that? just to make a point?

 

it’s done for sarcasm and nothing else…

 

not even a joke. it’s a smug remark used to elevate oneself.

 

furthermore, you exaggerate people’s claims, and blow them out of proportion in an attempt to discredited them…

 

just to suit your own ends…

 

none of what you said makes any logical sense. in fact…

 

you tried to dismiss a simple argument by means of ad-hominem attacks…

 

protip: the internet is for trolls.

 

in fact, give my team, which i will handpick (all randoms from dif corps) Mk3 and experimental gear and R9s. find the best squad you can, suit up with Mk1 and Mk2s in R7s and R8s and we’ll see how that goes for you. i wager it will be a massacre of the clothed vs the naked.

 

oh but i forgot you can’t ‘give’ stuff to people in this game, so i suppose i’ll just have to wait months to get experimentals… what a disappointment. meh… prob be gone by then due to other ‘factors’.

394

Wow you guys really mixed T3 and T4 together… I was hoping to just stay at T3 but now I have to grind through a bunch of crap for essentially the same content.

Yea. You presumably have kept T5 out of T4. By putting T4 into T3. Please keep T4 out of T3!

395

But point is… what s about when u can’t play in team? 

At the moment i have none of my squad mates online… but i wanna play. So basically i’m running alone… 

Point imho is… team work is cool, but u can’t force people to don’t play at all if, for a reason or another, thay can’t squad up in that moment.

On the other hands random queue shouldn’t be joinable from team of any kind.

 

 

Actually i don’t thing any other solution is viable.

 

Viable solution is to rethink how you operate when flying solo

 

I pug alot but that term is derogatory when applied to the context in which I fly

 

I call it Pro-Active Support (as opposed to passive)

 

Team minded pilots already do this to an extent. Challenge is in taking it to a higher level and be as effective as you can even without pre-designated roles and voice comms. Much to do with handling situations and reading your team-mate’s intentions and add to their efforts

 

instead of expecting people to work with you - you work ‘off’ them kinda approach.

 

It works.

 

And because of that I have no personal opinion on squad sizes nor does it impact me. Except in rare occasions when it’s 4v4 or 3v3 with or without bots and team-mates speak / read different languages.

 

Had a 3v3 vs ESB trollin T3. They spawned Engy-Guard-Singularity Command and on our side we were all interceptors playing domination.

 

Interceptor team should have won but we didn’t understand each other and I couldn’t manage to get my point across until after 4-5 minutes into game by which time ESB already had the lead in points and they kept it. Idea was to use our speed advantage and keep capping and recapping beacons and win off that when time runs out. Had a newplayer on our team too which didn’t help (poor bstr kept trying to make kills against ESB hahaha) and took him awhile to catch on.

 

But outside of that, in large fleet battles - a proactive solo player can still contribute. I see so many pilots do it all the time and in some cases proved to be the winning advantage that added to squad efforts. I don’t see a problem here.

 

What I dislike about squad size limitation is when big corps want to play public matches and not able to unless we’re ok with fighting each other. Steel Marauders accepted that a long time ago even when sizes were capped to 4. It’s moronic but constant promises of dreadnoughts and corp vs corp action is in the works keeps me going atleast.

 

[edit] sadly - squad A vs squad B became a weekend fixture in SM due to the f’ed up MM system where the squad that beats our CEO team gets to be boss on teamspeak for a day :stuck_out_tongue: sad state of affairs but we make do rawr.

396

I’ve had a lot of matches where there was a corp squad, even when it was 4 person squads, and I would end up in the middle of the top five.  Trying to figure out intentions is the tricky part, and sometimes a slower fighter isn’t so good following a bunch of gtfo interceptors.  Right now my DSR’s getting closer to 1300 as well, by flying solo.  Not using my Eagle-B in detonation helps a lot for that part, because I’d die a lot.  Some matches are just bad, because the other team dominates, and my hanger doesn’t have the ships to counter effectively.

 

Being a team player and showing teamwork doesn’t require a squad.

397

sadly dsr and efficiency rating are not an adequate proof of your capabilty of team work :wink:

398

… meh… prob be gone by then due to other ‘factors’.

At this point sir, you’ve been disrespectful and dismissing of people who voice any opinions contradictory to yours. So at this point I say - on to bigger and better things. :good:

…Being a team player and showing teamwork doesn’t require a squad.

Bingo. I queue up without being in a corp squad all the time, and I look through the list and figure out who I want to try to support. You’re on a team regardless of whether you know anyone. And you can still do your part to be a team player the same.

 

-Lib

399

sadly dsr and efficiency rating are not an adequate proof of your capabilty of team work :wink:

I know, but without the game having an actual rating that matters, dsr and efficiency rankings are the only things possible.

400

Trying to figure out intentions is the tricky part, and sometimes a slower fighter isn’t so good following a bunch of gtfo interceptors. 

Simply talk to them. :wink: When I want to coordinate with a corp squad I tend to use whisper rather than team chat because of the terrible chat system - the chance of them being on the corp tab rather than the global/battle tab and thus not seeing battle chat is rather high, but they’ll see a whisper in either tab.

I agree that having a somewhat respectable DSR helps to confirm you’re not a drooling newb and thus helps at being taken seriously - your capability of team work was confirmed by trying to coordinate already.

PS: The trick to doing well in fighters is to be extremely careful not to overextend. Your survivability in a scrap depends on ability cooldowns more than any other class, so often it is wise to disengage early to potentially come back with a vengeance shortly thereafter rather than overstaying your welcome and risking to be left behind in enemy territory if the tide of battle turned against you.