Star Conflict OBT v.0.9.8 update1 Discussion

Mercenary Center Patch Discussion
141

Don’t misunderstand my posts. There is a big difference between what I want and what I will accept on the grounds of “it’s not a TOTAL xxxx up.”

A good T3 squad can hold their own vs T4 pugs. GOOD squad. We had two matches with 5 NASA on our side thanks to a solo T4 pilot. 5 of us in an 8 vs 8 or 6 vs 6. Doesn’t take a genius to see that is going to have a big impact.

But this is not proof the matchmaking is right. The “right” answer was to put us in a 12 vs 12 Tier 3 match, with another T3 squad opposing us.

“Protecting” people from squads is all well and good, but T3 is meant to be where the real game begins, and if you think that means flying solo, you’re playing the wrong game. The beauty of the old T3, where it was common to have half the players or more squadded up every match, was that players saw the power of teamwork first hand, and were forced to learn. When EVERY attempt to fly solo gets you killed, you stop flying solo.

But the Devs don’t think that way. Instead, they’re trying to make solo viable at the expense of teamwork.

We, the corps, deserve to dominate matches. Do you know why? Because we play better. Yes, we make mistakes, misjudge, screw up or are just plain outplayed, but we self-regulate. Corps aspire to kick the crap out of each other. Everyone wants their Corp to be the reason everyone’s too scared to fly T5.

That, ultimately, is what I want from matchmaking. If you are an idiot I want you to be beaten so hard you ragequit. If you have skill, I want to see it in action. If you are better than me, consistently, then I want to see you moving up to see if you can beat the next rung in the ladder.

I want to fly with, and against, the best T3 has to offer. When I feel like there is no-one left to challenge me, when T3 becomes routine and I can roll squads on my own, that’s how I know it’s time to move up to T4.

Right now I CAN roll squads, but that’s because half of them are flying T1, and the other half are so stupid they make T1 pilots look pro. With all the squads, and thus all the talent being forced upward, we’ll be seeing more of this idiocy in T4 before long.

So yes, it is “balanced” for a skilled T3 squad to fly vs T4, and I don’t mind admitting I was the weakest link in our team, but in the long run it doesn’t make the game more fun, and it only hurts the player base.

142

We, the corps, deserve to dominate matches. Do you know why? Because we play better. Yes, we make mistakes, misjudge, screw up or are just plain outplayed, but we self-regulate. Corps aspire to kick the crap out of each other. Everyone wants their Corp to be the reason everyone’s too scared to fly T5.

That, ultimately, is what I want from matchmaking. If you are an idiot I want you to be beaten so hard you ragequit. If you have skill, I want to see it in action. If you are better than me, consistently, then I want to see you moving up to see if you can beat the next rung in the ladder.

I can understand this desire, but devs have to balance it between us corp types and solo fliers who make up for majority of players. As has been seen in T4/T5, a lot of corp types, including those from NASA ragequit T4 and T5 hard after getting stomped into the ground by ESB squads.

(On a side note, it’s terribly sad that most of NASA’s T5 regulars have now quit over guard conflict. It was so fun fighting R15 ESB squads on equal terms with lower ranked ships because we were able to outplay them quite a lot of times back when they didn’t fly guard+engineer+gunship IWIN comp but flew the balanced ECM/recon+gunship+engineer one just like we typically did).

 

I genuinely think that for long term health of the game and match making, a proper balancer that will average 50:50 win:loss ratio for everyone is the best solution. Roflstomping people into the ground in a squad is fun for a while, but it’s equally unfun for those getting stomped. As many of decent and good NASA players experienced in early 0.9.x. ESB killsquad stomping them and subsequently ragequitting the tier. For a while after that, NASA’s entire T5 group consisted of basically st1r, myself, mikelius, alek and a couple of others who had the fortitude to withstand getting stomped a lot by squads when not flying a full squad of our own. Most others would survive a few days with us, and then quit back to T3 or even T2 to lick the wounds. And I can understand that. It requires significant “wipe stamina” to use WoW linvo to be able to bear with chains of losses that corp squads could inflict upon you in the upper tiers.

 

Most people didn’t survive that test and quit to lower tiers where squads didn’t dominate as obviously. And that was with people in our corp. How much of a chance do you think average players have?

 

As a result, game should serve us with harder games if we’re roflstomping our own tier. As it should do to other players doing the same. Which is what matchmaker is doing, or at least trying its best to do now. And I think that is the right thing for long term success, even if short term it means people that are used to roflstomping most of their games reel from having a significantly more reasonable win:loss ratio.

143

Thats exactly why i love the coil mortar, it just feels right. Also, it is actually effective. I used to kill a captain in combat recon who was flying a guard in a frigball. Also note i was in an lrf at medium(3k) range

144

Don’t misunderstand my posts. There is a big difference between what I want and what I will accept on the grounds of “it’s not a TOTAL xxxx up.”

A good T3 squad can hold their own vs T4 pugs. GOOD squad. We had two matches with 5 NASA on our side thanks to a solo T4 pilot. 5 of us in an 8 vs 8 or 6 vs 6. Doesn’t take a genius to see that is going to have a big impact.

But this is not proof the matchmaking is right. The “right” answer was to put us in a 12 vs 12 Tier 3 match, with another T3 squad opposing us.

“Protecting” people from squads is all well and good, but T3 is meant to be where the real game begins, and if you think that means flying solo, you’re playing the wrong game. The beauty of the old T3, where it was common to have half the players or more squadded up every match, was that players saw the power of teamwork first hand, and were forced to learn. When EVERY attempt to fly solo gets you killed, you stop flying solo.

But the Devs don’t think that way. Instead, they’re trying to make solo viable at the expense of teamwork.

We, the corps, deserve to dominate matches. Do you know why? Because we play better. Yes, we make mistakes, misjudge, screw up or are just plain outplayed, but we self-regulate. Corps aspire to kick the crap out of each other. Everyone wants their Corp to be the reason everyone’s too scared to fly T5.

That, ultimately, is what I want from matchmaking. If you are an idiot I want you to be beaten so hard you ragequit. If you have skill, I want to see it in action. If you are better than me, consistently, then I want to see you moving up to see if you can beat the next rung in the ladder.

I want to fly with, and against, the best T3 has to offer. When I feel like there is no-one left to challenge me, when T3 becomes routine and I can roll squads on my own, that’s how I know it’s time to move up to T4.

Right now I CAN roll squads, but that’s because half of them are flying T1, and the other half are so stupid they make T1 pilots look pro. With all the squads, and thus all the talent being forced upward, we’ll be seeing more of this idiocy in T4 before long.

So yes, it is “balanced” for a skilled T3 squad to fly vs T4, and I don’t mind admitting I was the weakest link in our team, but in the long run it doesn’t make the game more fun, and it only hurts the player base.

I’ll admit, I partially took some things out of context, but the point remains, a T3 squad can compete in T4 and even a T2 squad can compete in T3.  Jumping two tiers is probably too much because the players don’t have a choice in getting knocked down to their own tier, MM did it.  The changes hurt people playing with friends more than hurting corp squads.  Requiring another squad to be available would slow down everyone’s queue time without it ending up as an imbalanced 4v4.  How many squads could seriously compete with NASA in a 4v4?  If you think flying solo means instant death, you’re wrong.  As long as I’ve played most players have obviously not been in a squad.  It happened but it was rare to see multiple squads in a match.  How can you say you want to fly with the best of T3 and not think that means you’re ready for better with T3?  I’ve yet to see a T1 squad even while I’m doing a mix of T2 PvP and T4 PvE.  Yeah it happens, and a lot of the time should probably be considered a bug, but that’s a whole separate issue.  Are you just talking like T1 shouldn’t be put in higher tiers or what?  I played one T1 match recently for a contract, and if it wasn’t for trying not to die I could have dominated.  A good T1 squad should be kicked up to T2.  Genuinely, the only people hurting from the squad changes are T5 squads kicked into their own queue an people who just want to play with friends from outside of the game.  With T3+ changing so much because of tier rushers skill is a bigger issue than what ships they’re flying.

 

Also, I’ve never claimed to be great.  I’ve never claimed to be better than anyone else.  I play the game, I try to understand the game, and I try to win.

 

[MM issue stuff]

Why the xxxx do I only agree with you on match maker?!?!

145

Player base at the moment says it all. Less than 500 people on and in higher tiers what you get is random pubs playing which is great but when you play in a 3v3 or 4v4 with another organized squad whose average dsr is greater than everyone on the opposing team, there’s no way to counter that. It’s not fair to tell the squad to disband so that teams can be balanced, the only way you can beat that is to saturate the games with more players to bring down the importance of the squad in winning games. That’s not to say that a good squad still can’t win the game, it just prevents the opposing team from getting stomped which is happening on a game by game basis with so few people on. 

 

The number of players on this game says it all. You are doing it wrong, the number of players should go up, not down.

 

If you want to make more money in this free to play, you need to make it more attractive for me to pull out my wallet and hand you money and right now, there’s no point. 

146

And the most stupid thing is, even if i squad with my brother (2man squad) with T1 ships, and ended fighting against T3’s, and miraculously maybe we win we get the same money as a T1 battle, same synergy too, which makes me very angry cause we have to be even more carefull, and fight a terribly unbalanced match to get a xxxx money at the end.

 

This is not entirely correct. You should get more synergy due to scaling mechanics - the tougher your enemy is - the bigger is your synergy gain. 

I will try to confirm it a bit later. 

147

Antibus, what is up with all these implant nerfs? At-least be fair and include changes ground-breaking like that into patch notes, it would be fair to everyone.

jZjE1Jz.jpg

First you nerf cool down on all surv/restoration modules by noticeable amount, now this. I understand tacklers need a buff, but this is to much, especially where Slow auras are constant, and dont go into CD, You make Slow auras be activatable like AMS and this will be called for nerf, but where frigballs are raging, and auras are endless the only way to get any close to frigs (that now have super lol flack machine gun) is microwarp,

148

Kostyan, you don’t know how happy I am because you’re complaining about the update, and no evil intentions or nothing similar from me, it’s just that you shut my mouth with that post, about something I said to you before, so noblesse oblige: I apologize for my earlier behavior.

 

By the way, welcome aboard the complaints-ship, take a seat.

149

Here’s a list that I compiled of the implant changes in 0.9.8 Update 1

 

Empire R2 “Oculus”                 Reduces targeting lock time                                                          75% → 43%

Empire R10 “Rapidus”             Reduces module recharge time                                                    25% → 20%

Federation R7 “Predator”         Afterburners energy use reduced by                                             20% → 17%

Federation R8 “Armadillo II”     Upon activating modules immune to engine effects for about      10 → 3 secs 

Federation R9 “Cheetah II”      Increases maximum afterburner speed by                                    7% → 6%

Federation R10 “Sting II”         Reduces active module energy consumption                                35% → 26%

Jericho R2 " FCS-M1"              Reduces main weapon spread by                                                 20% -->17%

Jericho R5 “SP-25”                  Maximum speed increased by                                                       5% → 3%

Jericho R8 “CU-25b”                Upon activating modules immune to energy siphoning                 7 → 5 secs

Jericho R11 “RR-50”                Missile reloading time reduced by                                                 20% → 17%

150

Things i would like to see changed:

 

-Stop Reseting the Daily Login Bonus. This is the only game that i know that does that. If you do that, you eliminate alot of grind. Maybe you have to adjust it in that case. In other games, the Bonus Counts up to 5 or 7 and stays there as Long as you log in daily.

 

-Change the loot mechanics of Upgrade kits (Purples). Give us three Options:

1: Let experts salvage it. Get alot of artifacts. (same as now)

2: Salvage it yourself. Get some artifacts or a 50% Chance to get the Kit. Either one. You get some artifacts or the kit 50/50 Without costs.

3: Sell the Claim to Experts. Get a good ammount of Credits for it.

 

-Lower the Prices of Premium ships or either Increase their benifits in term of income. The Prices are too high at the Moment.

151

Here’s a list that I compiled of the implant changes in 0.9.8 Update 1

 

Empire R2 “Oculus”                 Reduces targeting lock time                                                          75% → 43%

Federation R7 “Predator”         Afterburners energy use reduced by                                           20% → 17%

Federation R8 “Armadillo II”     Upon activating modules immune to engine effects for about       10 → 3 secs 

Federation R9 “Cheetah II”      Increases maximum afterburner speed by                                    7% → 6%

Federation R10 “Sting II”         Reduces active module energy consumption                                35% → 26%

Jericho R2 " FCS-M1"              Reduces main weapon spread by                                                 20% -->17%

Jericho R5 “SP-25”                  Maximum speed increased by                                                       5% → 3%

Jericho R8 “CU-25b”                Upon activating modules immune to energy siphoning                 7 → 5 secs

Jericho R11 “RR-50”                Missile reloading time reduced by                                                 20% → 17%

 

Thank you for going over this for us developer, oh, wait…

152

Here’s a list that I compiled of the implant changes in 0.9.8 Update 1

 

Empire R2 “Oculus”                 Reduces targeting lock time                                                          75% → 43%

Empire R10 “Rapidus”             Reduces module recharge time                                                    25% → 20%

Federation R7 “Predator”         Afterburners energy use reduced by                                             20% → 17%

Federation R8 “Armadillo II”     Upon activating modules immune to engine effects for about      10 → 3 secs 

Federation R9 “Cheetah II”      Increases maximum afterburner speed by                                    7% → 6%

Federation R10 “Sting II”         Reduces active module energy consumption                                35% → 26%

Jericho R2 " FCS-M1"              Reduces main weapon spread by                                                 20% -->17%

Jericho R5 “SP-25”                  Maximum speed increased by                                                       5% → 3%

Jericho R8 “CU-25b”                Upon activating modules immune to energy siphoning                 7 → 5 secs

Jericho R11 “RR-50”                Missile reloading time reduced by                                                 20% → 17%

1. Empire R2 “Oculus”, Empire R10 “Rapidus”, Federation R9 “Cheetah II”, Jericho R11 “RR-50”, Jericho R2 " FCS-M1", Federation R10 “Sting II” - Not a nerf at all. In this particular case it is a change in interface - now these implants tooltips show actual figures.

 

  1. Federation R7 “Predator”, Jericho R5 “SP-25” - This was done in order to reduce speed fluctuations between different ranks, we have already commented on this in previous patch discussion (not nerfed in this patch)

  2. Jericho R8 “CU-25b”, Federation R8 “Armadillo II” - allowed ignoring other roles for a too long time, times reduced because of balancing reasons.

In case of Federation R8 “Armadillo II”: the nerf was linked with MPI nerf that wasn’t included in this update. The MPI will work like Missile Shiled works now - not all the time but for a duration.

Only two were actually nerfed in this update. It wasn’t in patchnotes not because of ‘stealth nerfs’ but because of mistake.

153

Was I having bad luck yesterday or the drop chance for upgrade kits in loot has been reduced? I went from getting 1 or 2 upgrade kits per match, to getting 3 kits the whole evening.

154

Was I having bad luck yesterday or the drop chance for upgrade kits in loot has been reduced? I went from getting 1 or 2 upgrade kits per match, to getting 3 kits the whole evening.

Bad luck. Drop chances weren’t changed.

155

Things i would like to see changed:

 

-Stop Reseting the Daily Login Bonus. This is the only game that i know that does that. If you do that, you eliminate alot of grind. Maybe you have to adjust it in that case. In other games, the Bonus Counts up to 5 or 7 and stays there as Long as you log in daily.

 

-Change the loot mechanics of Upgrade kits (Purples). Give us three Options:

1: Let experts salvage it. Get alot of artifacts. (same as now)

2: Salvage it yourself. Get some artifacts or a 50% Chance to get the Kit. Either one. You get some artifacts or the kit 50/50 Without costs.

3: Sell the Claim to Experts. Get a good ammount of Credits for it.

 

-Lower the Prices of Premium ships or either Increase their benifits in term of income. The Prices are too high at the Moment.

  • Daily bonus no reset: no. Just no. If you want to boost income, do so on contracts and give us back our old contract system. You require a certain level to buy certain gear (Rank 1/4/7/10/13 should also grant you SOME blues) and keep the upgrade system as is but, instead of wasting “Vouchers”, we spend credits or GS on them.

 

  • Loot changes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g0YE61PLQ

Getting a drop CHANCE on purples was xxxx horrible enough with the old system, if I see that xxxx come back, I’m quitting the game.

 

Only two were actually nerfed in this update. It wasn’t in patchnotes not because of ‘stealth nerfs’ but because of mistake.

Is that why these changes weren’t on the Russian patch notes, as well? Because they “forgot” to add them in?

156
  • Daily bonus no reset: no. Just no. If you want to boost income, do so on contracts and give us back our old contract system. You require a certain level to buy certain gear (Rank 1/4/7/10/13 should also grant you SOME blues) and keep the upgrade system as is but, instead of wasting “Vouchers”, we spend credits or GS on them.

 

  • Loot changes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31g0YE61PLQ

Getting a drop CHANCE on purples was xxxx horrible enough with the old system, if I see that xxxx come back, I’m quitting the game.

 

Is that why these changes weren’t on the Russian patch notes, as well? Because they “forgot” to add them in?

No, that was another kind of mistake, we have commented on this situation there too.

157

 

 

To make it dumbed down for everyone to jump in fight. Forget your old ways, forget teamplay, forget squadding, forget being an elite player. 

 

…and forget easy win, easy killing and facerolling pugs for sure…and u know what…? I like it…lol

 

u want to play low tiers to farm voucher, coz u r skilled player and there are not so many skilled players in t1 t2…? ooops u can’t…? oops system recognize u and what u r trying to do, and matches u vs 2 tiers above pilots…? I like it!

 

You had high dsr coz u used to play for that, maybe ignoring objectives, and fighting in squads with blue/purple builds vs normal players…ooops u can’t do it anymore…? Your stupid dsr is falling downs…? I like it! Are u having a break to avoid ruining your dsr too much…? i like it

 

Anyone here agrees that 2 tiers difference in mm is too match, and this is true for sure…But if u r trying to get in low tiers to easy farm kills victories and vouchers…i want u to get matched vs 2 tiers above enemies :wink:

AS luckyo said if u got a win loss ratio >50…simply means that match makinng was absolutely broken! end of the story…If your 0.9 or 1.something win/loss ratio is falling down, this means MM is better than it was…

 

Being a t4 player (my dsr is around 1400 like solo fighter, not that crap i mean) with medium/normal builds i was constantely matched vs kill squads and enemies with full blue/purple stuff…I could easily be killed by a single bubble shot…It’s not hapening anymore…

 

  1. A good T3 squad can hold its own vs T4. As much as I dislike mixed tiers, I think that moving up one tier is acceptable for Tier 3. However, I do not think Tier 1 should move up to T2; T1 squads are likely to be friends flying together without much experience, and should not be put in with T2.

 

Agree

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handicapping

That’s in essence what matchmaking is supposed to do. You play well so you get matched against people who also play well, to give you a challenge.

Even if the current system is probably a bit too harsh and simply doesn’t have the player base to match fitting people in the same tier, you’re saying that what you want from this game is to faceroll pugs.

Winning is fun, but easy wins are only entertaining for so long.

Agree again…

 

You guys blamed on antibus coz of positive feedbacks lack…Here u got some.

Ceratinly MM needs some fixing but it’s much better than it was :wink:

 

158

Ceratinly MM needs some fixing but it’s much better than it was :wink:

It will be adjusted a bit more in the following update.

159

We were playing yesterday with rank 4 and rank 5 ships in a 3 men squad. Got placed in rank 4-8 games. Even if two of my rank 4 ships were full blue with a bit of purple. Seems legit for me.

 

And the third in discord, a friend of mine who started to play this week (hence our rank 4 ships) was having fun, because the teams were more or less balanced.

 

So far I think this MM is a bit better than the previous one.

 

The contract changing without fee is awesome, with that and the vouchers increase in the big contracts, I think it is almost perfect balanced between grind and reward. I mean, you are not supposed to have all full blue in two days… I still remember grinding 200 games to get a tier 9 tank to top preset in WoT, with premium, and stock tanks in WoT are FAR WORSE than stock synergy ships in SC.

 

A small step in the right direction.

 

And to all of the people complaining, I think the devs truly listen to us. Look at the contract changes. They changed it to vouchers, tested with the new prices, we gave a reasonable amount of feedback saying the grind was TOO MUCH, and they fixed it so the grind is just right.

 

Now they have to tweak a bit the credit income, maybe increasing loot income the higher the tier is (I’m having the same loot in tier 1 than in tier 3) or lowering a bit the ammo costs.

 

But so far, It seems they are listen, so stay calm, give feedback and wait for the best.

160

lowering a bit the ammo costs.

Standard Ammo costs were lowered 2 times already. Didn’t get in patchnotes again  :sad: