Star Conflict OBT v.0.9.7 Discussion

Mercenary Center Patch Discussion
641

Yes, I suck at moving and you’re an uber player. :lol:

 

Hey, mind giving all the top players in the game a lecture on how that works? Since pretty much everyone except you and a few people that don’t even have T5 ships have huge problems with them right now?

 

Also, I am reliably hitting people with EM torps at 2km range. People that are much better than you at this game such ESB squaddies and so on. Please tell me, what am I and they doing wrong?

Got videos to back it up?  By the way, I thought you didn’t like frigates as they were OP, and only frigates have EM torpedoes.  Show me ESB getting hit by toEM rpedoes at 2km range.  That’s almost seven seconds of flight time.  If it’s targeting a beacon, LRF sniping, or someone afk, it doesn’t really count.

642

I really dont have problems with T5, cause i dont have T5 yet. But i have problems with T4’s, since the MM is still broken and puts T3 vs T4, puts T2 vs T3, and T1 vs T2 or sometimes even T3.

 

And what i said last post is kinda true, from what i’ve seen ppl complaining on this post and the last patch one T5’s matches are basically 6x6, never big battles. So i wonder why ppl are so upset. Either one part is complaining about T3, and the other one is T5 and they mix up everything or they are only talking about T5, and if thats the case whats the dificulty in hiding from 6 players??? Not hiding, just getting behind a cover?

 

Oh But they have a frigball that kills everyone in their wake… COOOOL, have anyone had the great idea of flying inties and get all the beacons before the fatty frigball reaches the first beacon? NOOOOOOO, why!!! because acording to the talking here, everyone only wants to be able to kill guards, PERIOD. Thats the main discussion here. Have u ever considered other ways of wining? Just yesterday my corp and another corp did some 8x8 fight. They had a HEAVY frigate composition, basically 3 eng, 1 int, 1 torpedo sniper and rest guards. What happened? They lost cause we had 3-4 inties capturing beacons, and we killed their straglers, and sometimes one frig or another, so they were always losing in captured beacons and frags because we were not facing them straight on. Then, on the second match they put a lot of top frigs, 3 inties. What happened? they continued the same tactic, but even more anoying because of the torps, we captured the beacons, destroyed their inties, they got desperate and tried to push forward, and we ambushed their entire team and killed almost all of them.

 

The point is, i see ppl complaining about ships being OP in T5, expecially the guard, if they are so much invincible in T5 things should be changed. But those who doesnt see another way win i think are always craving for kills, and if u are craving for kills you get killed.

 

Assume you are driving a car, and u want to get from A to B, but theres a 1 meter thick steel wall in the path, instead of slamming your car into the wall and hope to make a dent, why not circumvent the wall passing through C and getting to B without a scratch?

 

Im sorry, but i cant see the reason of whining, because there are always other ways to win a battle not just heading straight on into a massive frigball (since in T5 to do a massive frigball u need all the 5 or 6 players) LOL.

 

So please, can someone present arguments to change something without saying: Oh that ship is too strong that noone can kill it 1x1 of course no ship should be invincible, but the arguments posted so far only point that players who rage about it rage because they CANT GET THAT KILL, so, they are not going for objectives to WIN the battle, they just want to massage their EGOS by killing players.

 

Yes guards require low skill ceiling, but even a group of not so skilled ppl, with the right leadership and training can become an unstoppable force. So, next time you charge into a guard that is too strong, go through the beacons, take them all and see that frigball team dying, because most of the stuff being said here about nerfing guards are sumarized into making guards into xxxx things that break with a sneeze. Someone there sugested to decrease survivability across the board for guards… So it is fair an engeneer to have 65k survivability, but it is unthinkable to have a guard reach 90k? (btw i dont know if these numbers are accurate in T5, since i only play T3 pvp) I already saw people flying on a bloody styx that had more survivability than MANY guards. 60k+ on a styx… really?? a self healing ship with 60k+ survivability on T3 is OK, but a guard with 70k is OP? I wonder how dificult it must be to down a Naga with best gear…

 

Correct me if im wrong please. Tell me that it is not what ppl raging here are doing.

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Most maps are too small to outrun frigates. They will be easily able to lock down 2/3 beacons. In many cases, you’ll be fighting your xxxx off, just to hold them off the third because of survivability and firepower they pack dwarfing everything else.

 

P.S. I’m currently flying R11 and R12 ships in T5 again. Still no major problems outside the whole god frigate elephant in the room. T5s are better, but no so much that I can’t outplay them on a constant basis.

 

 

jrisom: you may notice that ESB players are posting here, in this very thread, confirming the “guards overpowered, EM torpedo hilariously broken” claims. Unless you’re going to claim that both myself and these people are lying to you, you’ll just have to take our word for it.

 

Or you can come to T5 to see it for yourself.

644

 

Yes guards require low skill ceiling, but even a group of not so skilled ppl, with the right leadership and training can become an unstoppable force. So, next time you charge into a guard that is too strong, go through the beacons, take them all and see that frigball team dying, because most of the stuff being said here about nerfing guards are sumarized into making guards into xxxx things that break with a sneeze. Someone there sugested to decrease survivability across the board for guards… So it is fair an engeneer to have 65k survivability, but it is unthinkable to have a guard reach 90k? (btw i dont know if these numbers are accurate in T5, since i only play T3 pvp) I already saw people flying on a bloody styx that had more survivability than MANY guards. 60k+ on a styx… really?? a self healing ship with 60k+ survivability on T3 is OK, but a guard with 70k is OP? I wonder how dificult it must be to down a Naga with best gear…

 

My Styx can have up to 64k surv (with +10 hull resist booster, 61k without), so I can agree with you there, but Naga is weaker than the Styx in terms of hull, and way weaker than the Minotaur:

 

Minotaur 3 hulls 2 shields, Styx 3 hulls 1 shield, Naga 2 hulls 1 shield.

645

Kraimax I agree. We did beat the Frigate heavy team because we used our mobility to flank them. We used hit and run tactics, we used cover effectively, and we flat out fly circles around them. We weren’t stupid enough to take on a Guard Frigate 1 on 1. When we did hit a Guard it was always with at least 3 Intys. Now I just recently got my first T4 ship, and haven’t had a chance to kit it out yet so I don’t know what T4, and T5 matches are like yet, but I don’t care what Tier your in Tactics are what wins NOT trying to be a hero taking on a Guard frigate by yourself.

646

Kraimax I agree. We did beat the Frigate heavy team because we used our mobility to flank them. We used hit and run tactics, we used cover effectively, and we flat out fly circles around them. We weren’t stupid enough to take on a Guard Frigate 1 on 1. When we did hit a Guard it was always with at least 3 Intys. Now I just recently got my first T4 ship, and haven’t had a chance to kit it out yet so I don’t know what T4, and T5 matches are like yet, but I don’t care what Tier your in Tactics are what wins NOT trying to be a hero taking on a Guard frigate by yourself.

Hint: a good guard frigate can take on engineer and gunship and win. Solo. No one is even talking about ints, 3 ints vs a guard means three dead ints and a trollfacing guard in any kind of group play. If he’s solo, caught with pants down and no CDs, yeah, you can take him with three ints. You’ll probably lose/forced to disengage for heals on one-two in the process, but you’ll kill him.

 

Of course, when enemy team is 3+ guards and you’re not, good luck.

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OK maybe I shouldn’t have said Intys, because I know at least 1 time there was a gunship with us as well. Anyways I was responding to the fact that Guards can be taken down with teamwork.

648

Styx could do with a drop in survivability, and I say that as an Empire pilot.

Guards might be fixed by reducing their attack. Starting at T3 (they’re fine below that) have a -10% dmg modifier for their main weapons (and possibly missiles). This penalty should increase at T4 and again at T5. The purpose of the penalty is to keep the Guard’s role as a tank, rather than a one-ship-armada. Their role is to support, draw fire and deny ground. Actual kills belong to everyone else.

649

Hint: a good guard frigate can take on engineer and gunship and win. Solo. No one is even talking about ints, 3 ints vs a guard means three dead ints and a trollfacing guard.

A good solo Guard fit can faceroll any ship it comes across.

A good Gunship can solo anything it’s thrown at.

A good Engineer will know how to keep himself and others alive.

A good Command pilot will know when to use his Weapon/Speed modules to give your team the upper hand.

 

And so forth… 20% of the time, it’s the fit. As you know, any purple-fitted ship will outperform any Blue geared pilot on the same ship with the same fit. Then why did the blue-geared pilot manage to kill the purple-geared pilot?.. Simple. The other 80% of the equation, skill.

650

Sure it’s skill. That’s why people like rekombo27, who are widely considered among the best players if not the best player in the game… still lose games. When squadded. And having people like us on the same team, also in squad

 

Why? Enemy has more guards. Preferably over half of the team.

3cm9.jpg

 

Completely skill based. In other news, pants are worn on the head.

 

P.S. Played three or four games in a row before giving up yesterday. Guard conflict in every game. The “skill” that decides the game is the “how many guards were you skilled enough to slot in your hangar” skill.

651

OK maybe I shouldn’t have said Intys, because I know at least 1 time there was a gunship with us as well. Anyways I was responding to the fact that Guards can be taken down with teamwork.

 

And here is the Problem: In T4-5 you dont have the general uncooridnated matches like in the lower tiers. Also those matches are a lot smaller (in general somewhere between 3v3 and 8v8. And the OPness of the guards is getting quite obvious there.

Look at Luckyos Pic. There is a reason for that frigballing (its fking easy to win that way). And no, you dont have the chance to go there with inties, the problem is that the dmg-output is not scaling with the survivability of the ships… especially not with that of Jerry Guards. 

IIRC its +200 dmg from T4MKIII Shrapnel to T5MKIII Shrapnel, while EHP scales from 70k-ish TOR S to 85k-ish Inqui S  

 

 

Also, Ofc! ANY ship/pilot can be taken down with teamwork! Thats kinda clear. BUT: IF you dont have the chance to go 1v1 with any ship vs any ship (no fleeing) its also obvious that mechanics are broken here. 

I dont have any problems with the concept of a guard but all those anti-little-stuff modules AND EM Torp to the face (which is in fact easily tankable by a guard) is just too much. 

 

 

 

Outcapping in all beacon modes wont work either. you cant hold the beacon with an inty when the guard arrives and for a nearly skilled player its indeed easy to hold 2 beacons. While on the other hand (in 1v1) your Inty looses half its HP to clearing the beacon from drones.  So the only possible mode where a guard might be inferior is Detonation. Still you wont get the last beacon down. 

 

 

^ you got me there lol its too much to read XD but guards in t3 are fine, guards in t4 are so so, but t5 guard… now there is a pain in the *** when you dont get many big battles and the only people you get to face are 3v3’s with two guards and a engi you dont hold a beacon long at all, if at all (even if you have all intys), taking into fact that the engi might have a warp gate then your just plain out of luck. here is a run down of t5 battles torp, torp more torp. then pulsar spam and more pulsar spam with ALOT of CM shells flying ur way.

 

That said, this argument becomes quite valid. I wonder how it would be if there were more 3v3s in T3. 

I guess the Dmg/HP scaling is not that harsh like in T4-5. 

652

My only problem in t4/5 is those freaking bubble gunships

653

And here is the Problem: In T4-5 you dont have the general uncooridnated matches like in the lower tiers. Also those matches are a lot smaller (in general somewhere between 3v3 and 8v8. And the OPness of the guards is getting quite obvious there.

Look at Luckyos Pic. There is a reason for that frigballing (its fking easy to win that way). And no, you dont have the chance to go there with inties, the problem is that the dmg-output is not scaling with the survivability of the ships… especially not with that of Jerry Guards. 

IIRC its +200 dmg from T4MKIII Shrapnel to T5MKIII Shrapnel, while EHP scales from 70k-ish TOR S to 85k-ish Inqui S  

 

 

Also, Ofc! ANY ship/pilot can be taken down with teamwork! Thats kinda clear. BUT: IF you dont have the chance to go 1v1 with any ship vs any ship (no fleeing) its also obvious that mechanics are broken here. 

I dont have any problems with the concept of a guard but all those anti-little-stuff modules AND EM Torp to the face (which is in fact easily tankable by a guard) is just too much. 

 

 

 

Outcapping in all beacon modes wont work either. you cant hold the beacon with an inty when the guard arrives and for a nearly skilled player its indeed easy to hold 2 beacons. While on the other hand (in 1v1) your Inty looses half its HP to clearing the beacon from drones.  So the only possible mode where a guard might be inferior is Detonation. Still you wont get the last beacon down. 

 

 

That said, this argument becomes quite valid. I wonder how it would be if there were more 3v3s in T3. 

I guess the Dmg/HP scaling is not that harsh like in T4-5. 

 

I dont have all fancy gear on my guard, and because of that i have a little over 61k survivability there. And even with 170 EM resist (with phase shield) i get 9k crits from singularity cannons, of course thats on T3, not T5, but imagine that, if i get hit with 9k crits (wich clean my shield with 2 crits and 1 normal shot) imagine what it is doing with other ships… Instant kills?

 

The point is, there are many things that are unbalanced, for T5 singularity may be fine and guards OP, but up until there sing is kinda too powerfull, i dont mind it hitting heavy on a guard, but it looks like 170em resist is useless against purple crit based sing cannon fighters. Basically, a lot of recalculations need to be remade on the game.

 

Also another thing i’ve noticed, for fun i started leveling up those empire snipers (ofc i admit, i want the styx), the thing is, on T1, they are VERY GOOD, either because the pilots are Ace, or because the ships die quickly with desintegrator shots, on T2, things start to get a little bit harder, but it is still effective, but now i got to T3 with an kind of hydra i cant remember which, and on T3 basically it doesnt kill xxxx. Anything would take 4-5 shots to kill, interceptors are impossible to hit now (up to T2 sometimes u get a kill) and our survivability is laughable, thats why in a team that have 4 snipers, 95% of the time all 4 are torpedoers, so, i must say that desintegrator snipers are too weak now, or the ships are getting too strong. As the ESB guy said, the dammage doesnt scale right with the increase in survivability and that creates a huge problem. Hydra kind snipers were suposed to deal heavy dammage on single ships, to literally snipe ships asses, like kill a fighter with 2 shots, maybe the most tanky ones with 3, inties with 1 shot or at least leave them with a misery of HP, guards should at least be dammaged by it, since if u target a guard and hit for more than 3k u are a champion, and 3k shield for a jerry guard is nothing, and of course, the Styx (reminds me of the Stig from top gear) where u need to shoot harder than on a guard to put it down.

654

Look at Luckyos Picture, Kraimax, and tell me then why in the opponent team are only 2 gunships, while the rest is going Frigball?

655

Look at Luckyos Picture, Kraimax, and tell me then why in the opponent team are only 2 gunships, while the rest is going Frigball?

 

I understand your point, that gamemode favors the frigball, beacon hunt is a bad gamemode for so many reasons, same goes for that detonation xxxx.

 

The only gamemode where skill really matters is capture the beacons, the rest is all a fuckfest of unbalanced hell, thats why i hope someday the devs apply that realistic mode to all kinds of games (i’ve heard u had that before, must have been a paradise) since i hate to spend 5 mins to finnaly take down one or two torpedoer snipers only to see them respawning again and continue their stuff like nothing ever happened.

656

I disagree about Detonation being bad.

 

Detonation needs simply different tactics to win. There are very many players, which I do respect especially in this game mode, and I had very beautiful tactical plays there. It is also pretty much fun, unless the team does not get, the task is simply: you either have a plan or just go for the red big ball.

 

Really, try to play that map from a students’ standpoint, there are quite some squads which excel in this map. At least you see very few frigballs there.

 

Fact is, you have to play really a couple of hours, to get some matches, where the team finds itself, I personally sometimes hate Capture the Beacon, if I see my team will just be slaughtered, on the other hand, if it turns out to be a close fight or at least a spartan defense at the last beacon, I always just hope I don’t get too many people who decided it’s cool to bring only one ship.

657

I understand your point, that gamemode favors the frigball, beacon hunt is a bad gamemode for so many reasons, same goes for that detonation xxxx.

 

The only gamemode where skill really matters is capture the beacons, the rest is all a fuckfest of unbalanced hell, thats why i hope someday the devs apply that realistic mode to all kinds of games (i’ve heard u had that before, must have been a paradise) since i hate to spend 5 mins to finnaly take down one or two torpedoer snipers only to see them respawning again and continue their stuff like nothing ever happened.

I didn’t take any more screenshots but most of the games that day were triple beacon ones. Guard conflict galore. Hold two beacons, slaughter those that dare to fight you, chase off those that try to cap your beacons and keep the pressure up on enemy beacon.

 

Easy win every time. I flew gunship for the rest of the games, and it wasn’t all that much better than interceptor in this meta.

 

Right now, guard frigate doesn’t just kill games. It kills desire to become better at the game, because guard’s skill ceiling is hilariously low, and while funkybacon’s messages do make me wonder if some people are indeed so bad that they can’t even manage guard frigates, most random players appear to be not all that much less efficient than ESB with them at the moment. Unlike other ship types that actually have a decent to high skill ceiling, guards barely require having some basic understanding of game mechanics and some common sense (i.e. don’t solo rush beacon defended by half enemy team unless it’s 3v3).

658

Sure it’s skill. That’s why people like rekombo27, who are widely considered among the best players if not the best player in the game… still lose games. When squadded. And having people like us on the same team, also in squad

 

Why? Enemy has more guards. Preferably over half of the team.

 

Completely skill based. In other news, pants are worn on the head.

 

P.S. Played three or four games in a row before giving up yesterday. Guard conflict in every game. The “skill” that decides the game is the “how many guards were you skilled enough to slot in your hangar” skill.

You know a way to utterly break that Guard-block? Singularities. We had a couple of said matches over the weekend. (me, Neo &… I can’t remember who else, Kipps, iirc). Basically, the match devolved into me & Neo using bubble gunships to mow down the enemy Frigball. And they kept spawning MORE Frigates for us to kill. The Frigball soon died. It’s the enemy’s fault that they failed to counter the Guards.

 

EVERY SHIP HAS ITS COUNTER. As well as every tactic having its counter, as well. The natural counter to any Frigball? Blue Balls of Death.

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The forum is not for discussions of personal differences. Stay on topic!

660

You know a way to utterly break that Guard-block? Singularities. We had a couple of said matches over the weekend. (me, Neo &… I can’t remember who else, Kipps, iirc). Basically, the match devolved into me & Neo using bubble gunships to mow down the enemy Frigball. And they kept spawning MORE Frigates for us to kill. The Frigball soon died. It’s the enemy’s fault that they failed to counter the Guards.

 

EVERY SHIP HAS ITS COUNTER. As well as every tactic having its counter, as well. The natural counter to any Frigball? Blue Balls of Death.

As noted before, it takes about five full ovearheats to kill a guard. Guard takes much less to kill a gunship even when solo and far less when together with others against a group of gunships.

 

“Blue balls of death” counter all non-frigate ships and do siginificant harm to two of the frigates. They do little against god frigates however, that simply facetank singularity while they crush those shooting at them.