Star Conflict OBT v.0.9.3 Discussion

It’s called playing for objectives, for the win.

 

Protecting a bomb carrier is not rewarded by points

 

Only if they’re farming and not killing.  “Valkyrie” cane help a team a lot when you know when to use it.

 

Debufs should depend on timing.

 

It’s knowing gameplay.  If you know the rules to win, you use them.  Baseball isn’t all about home runs.

 

Behind the target tends to be safer, if you’re in from, then a “lock onto nearest target” will target you.

 

Then why do they die?  Why aren’t they abused?

 

The only time it’s offensive is when they’re already targeted and it’s stasis!

 

The only thing that isn’t normal is that you’re reduced to a ship without "magic."

 

3-4 people not helping the battle, sitting there at a beacon don’t help ‘ftw’… since once the enemy is done cleaning up the rest of your team they will come for the 3-4 at beacon and own it.

 

it would be too hard to implement ‘protecting the bomb carrier’ since someone doesn’t always do damage to them before you kill that person… so… that’s why i requested that less emphasis be put on mindless objectives, and more on helping your team out in battle. objectives award a win in themselves, so they already boost your earnings by that simple fact…

 

yes, 2-3 command cycling valkyrie can help, but all of the other mods on them are being wasted, except as backup when 1-2 others die or are disabled. still preferable to 5-6 assist farmers. but it still wouldn’t be a problem, since you’re getting slightly less for buff/debuff but more for damage assists/kills… so it evens out… just forces you to help out with damage more instead of sitting there being semi-useless… like when i play engi/command i usually end up top efficiency simply due to all the buff/debuff assists… not even counting beacon caps…

 

debuffs do depend on timing. if you debuffed a target within the last 15 secs, you get an assist. (at least i think, even if the debuff runs out before he dies). defensive buffs should depend on timing and if the person you assisted took damage in the last 15 secs, or even if they didn’t it could be a heal buff, etc… but that is most likely too difficult to implement… so as an easy workaround, just reduce assist farming…

 

knowing gameplay is fine. but when certain ‘plays’ provide unproportionate rewards, then things get out of balance… people start doing crazy things… it’s like the game actively rewards doing the exact opposite of what you need to do in order to actually win a battle…

 

i never use lock nearest target, i have a custom lock on bind which locks my attacker, the target in my crosshair, etc… based on the context. i use the radar to find the nearest/appropriate target. it’s better that way. plus i don’t mean a single unit in the front line. i mean a squad of people, actively working to deny the enemy strategic positioning.

 

ecms are abused… even after the nerf i see 3-4 ecms in a game or 3-4 coverts… 3-4 ecms can literally disable an entire fleet while other enemy units kill them.

 

no, typical ecm offensive run goes like this: emitter the engineer while your team kills it, absorb and statis the command if need be, and kill it… use metastable to finish the job if you get in trouble, then get out of there with flares. or something to that effect.

 

no, actually it’s magic that you can disable a ship for 3.5 seconds, then another 9 seconds, then drain its energy for another 10 seconds like a disable, then get 10 seconds of invulnerability and 2 sec disable, then some of your other skills are already off cooldown… it’s a ‘magic iddqd boat’… why you think every has an ecm as first slot? ;p

 

when i get 4th slot my loadout will be: ecm, gunship, command, engineer. or another possible loadout is ecm, covert, guard, engineer.

Okay, so I decided to run a little test. I took my Machette that I had not added synergy to and did a series of tests to see the impact of modules on queue rank. I equipped only that ship in slot one.

 

What I found was startling:

 

  1. Synergy doesn’t matter at all.

  2. The primary weapon affects your queue rank number. If you equip a mk2 or mk3 it increases you in the queue rank number. So when I have nothing equipped in the primary slot I’m at rank 22, when I equip a Mk3 weapon I’m at rank 25.

  3. The primary slot weapon of the first ship is the one that affects the queue. You can have Mk3 weapons on your ships in slot 2,3 & 4 and they do not affect the matchmaking.

 

This is frustrating because the game punishes you for buying a better weapon and tosses you up against stronger players. It is also a potential exploit in the opposite direction.

 

The forum doesn’t allow me to paste the spread sheet, so forgive me for the formatting below. A dash (-) means the slot is empty.

 

Tier/Rank/Ship/Syn/DSR/Primary Weapon/Ammo/Missile/AMod1/AMod2/PMod1/Queue Rank

2    4    Machette    1    1176    -        -    -        TPm1    ESm1    -        22

2    4    Machette    1    1167    ARail Mk1    -    Standard 1    TPm1    ESm1    Eguid 1        24

2    4    Machette    1    1167    ARail Mk3    -    Standard 1    TPm1    ESm1    Eguid 1        25

2    4    Machette    1    1167    ARail Mk3    Ex Mk3    Standard Mk3    TPm1    ESm1    Elecguid 1        25

2    4    Machette    1    1167    ARail Mk3    Ex Mk3    Standard Mk3    TPMIL    ESMIL    Elecguidxp        25

2    4    Machette    1    1167    ARail Mk1    Ex Mk3    Standard Mk3    TPMIL    ESMIL    Elecguidxp        24

2    4    Machette    1    1167    -        -    Standard Mk3    TPMIL    ESMIL    Elecguidxp        23

2    4    Machette    1    1180    -        -    Standard Mk3    TPMIL    ESMIL    Elecguidxp        23

2    4    Machette    2    1180    -        -    Standard Mk3    TPMIL    ESMIL    Elecguidxp        23

2    4    Machette    3    1180    ARail Mk3    -    Standard Mk3    TPMIL    ESMIL    Elecguidxp        25

2    4    Machette    4    1180    ARail Mk3    -    Standard Mk3    TPMIL    ESMIL    Elecguidxp        25

2    4    Machette    4    1180    ARail Mk3    Ex Mk3    Standard Mk3    TPMIL    ESMIL    Elecguidxp        25

2    4    Machette    5    1180    ARail Mk3    Ex Mk3    Standard Mk3    TP MK3    ESMIL    Elecguidxp        25

2    4    Machette    5    1170    ARail Mk3    Ex Mk3    Standard Mk3    TP MK3    ESMIL    Elecguidxp        25

2    4    Machette    5    1170    -        Ex Mk3    Standard Mk3    TP MK3    ESMIL    Elecguidxp        24

2    4    Machette    6    1170    -        Ex Mk3    Standard Mk3    TP MK3    ESMIL    Elecguidxp        24

2    4    Machette    6    1170    ARail Mk3    Ex Mk3    Standard Mk3    TP MK3    ESMIL    Elecguidxp        25

2    4    Machette    7    1170    ARail Mk3    Ex Mk3    Standard Mk3    TP MK3    ESMIL    Elecguidxp        25

THIS IS A GAME CHANGER

I have tested this out and I can load 3 Tier 3 ships into my hanger and have them equipped with purples and blues but only have my gun be green or less and I will queue with people just starting Tier 2. One guy had the Rank 4 Tier 2 Jerico Guard and two Tier 1 ships in his hanger. While I had a Tier 3 Tackler with green bubble gun… do the math at how much I pwnd

Who ever claimed that anything but ship rank and recent success impacted your matchmaking? As far as I know, devs always openly said that those two factors are the only thing that ever mattered.

THIS IS A GAME CHANGER

I have tested this out and I can load 3 Tier 3 ships into my hanger and have them equipped with purples and blues but only have my gun be green or less and I will queue with people just starting Tier 2. One guy had the Rank 4 Tier 2 Jerico Guard and two Tier 1 ships in his hanger. While I had a Tier 3 Tackler with green bubble gun… do the math at how much I pwnd

 

No it is not, as soon as you get enough kills and synergy (if you get them at all, maxed out T2s quite easily pwn the ships you are equipping) you will be moved to another tier, and this won’t be long. This is not an exploit in our point of view. 

 

This system actually serves to help players who are buying new ships with no synergy - it gives you an ability to fly in previous tier for some time, before sending you off to higher tier. 

 

and interceptors are OP for several reason: they heal almost instantly around an engineer 

 

I can’t stop laught everytime i read this nosense.

 

Did you realized that interceptors don’t recive more heal than other ships and the reason becouse their bars rise up faster is t hey have low Hull and Shield?

 

Basically qhat you are saying is they are op becouse they are squishy… LOL.

No it is not, as soon as you get enough kills and synergy (if you get them at all, maxed out T2s quite easily pwn the ships you are equipping) you will be moved to another tier, and this won’t be long. This is not an exploit in our point of view. 

 

This system actually serves to help players who are buying new ships with no synergy - it gives you an ability to fly in previous tier for some time, before sending you off to higher tier. 

 

This is actually a good system imho… if it works… i always have to fight r14 and 15 with my brand new ranks 11 :stuck_out_tongue:

I can’t stop laught everytime i read this nosense.

 

Did you realized that interceptors don’t recive more heal than other ships and the reason becouse their bars rise up faster is t hey have low Hull and Shield?

 

Basically qhat you are saying is they are op becouse they are squishy… LOL.

 

yup, so we should allow one unit to top up in 10-20 seconds, and another to have to wait 2 minutes… how is that even balance? you do realize that frigs are more squishy than you think, since a covert can obliterate one in 3-5 seconds… so can a bubble gun… i seriously hope you are talking about guards… at least they can withstand 5-10 seconds… so can a recon, although it takes a bit longer. harder on ecm but still doable.

 

and basically what i just said, if you read it, is that they can speedtank while healing, basically outhealing any damage you can possibly do. because speedtank reduces damage.

 

like a 55 monk in gw1. really low health, fast healing rate. almost unkillable without mass enchantment removal.

But… are you serious? I mean, you really don’t get it?

 

It doesn’t matter at what  level the bars are, numbers are the same.

 

Let’s say you regen 3000 hull in 10 sec. On an interceptor you will be full becouse you have 3000 hull at all.

 

On a frigates you will be at 1/4 bar becouse you have 12k hull.

 

Now, it doesn’t make any difference for an attacker who has to kill you: he has to deal 3000 damage anyway.

It’s all a matter of true balance.

“Nothing is wrong with the game, everything is working as intended.”

 

If by that they mean a broken game, job well done, it is working as intended.

 

 

No it is not, as soon as you get enough kills and synergy (if you get them at all, maxed out T2s quite easily pwn the ships you are equipping) you will be moved to another tier, and this won’t be long. This is not an exploit in our point of view. 

 

This system actually serves to help players who are buying new ships with no synergy - it gives you an ability to fly in previous tier for some time, before sending you off to higher tier. 

Considering ship roles pretty much go in a straight line, there is no “adjustment” period for anyone. If I’m buying all Guards, you can rest assured I’m VERY comfortable with the class and VERY much not some witless nitwit that just got the ship for the first time and goes “huh, I wonder what this does…”

 

It IS game breaking because you’re allowing high-end ships of a higher Tier to fight starting ships of a lower Tier. It’s not only exploitable (seeing as we can choose whenever we want to level up our ships) it is frustrating to those pilots in the lower Tier.

 

Can these ships be killed? Obviously, but you’re not running a miracle-working ship and can’t solo against them as you can with the same ship role in your own Tier! Let’s take a few examples, shall we?

Ie, CovOps vs Guard; more specifically, Swift Mk3 vs Neuron Zealot/Crus-S. I know the Swift can take down the Zealot VERY easily because I’ve done so many times in the past and have had it done to me, as well whilst flying the Crus-Q. This is exactly the way it should be, Ceptors being able to kill Frigates. If you use that same Swift against a Crus-S or even an Anaconda-M, the Swift IS going to get curbstomped by the Pulsar alone, let alone even scratch the guard’s shield.

Another example: Fox-M/Rhi-no vs Dwarf 2/Swift Mk3 & Swarm/Kite. Either of these 2 Tacklers can easily beat down the Dwarf 2. They have always been a thorn on my D2 and I accepted it because I was an idiot for flying into them or was caught off guard and with the MWE on cooldown. However… Those same 2 Tacklers vs those Ceptors’ upgraded versions (Swarm/Kite, respectively), CANNOT even touch them. In fact, not even the Silent Fox can touch them effectively without suffering a lot.

Don’t like these examples? Ok, let’s move up a Tier. Parallax/Bear vs Eagle-M/Nodachi-EW. Same thing. The Parallax/Bear can actually kill a Kris-AE if they catch them by surprise but they will NEVER even touch an Eagle-M or Nodachi-EW. It is physically impossible for them.

 

So, your “point of view” literally tells us it’s perfectly fine abusing the matchmaking system for our own gain because it’s accepted as normal.

 

PS: And those higher tiered ships I used in that example ALL had Blue/Purple weapons, so there’s that…

No it is not, as soon as you get enough kills and synergy (if you get them at all, maxed out T2s quite easily pwn the ships you are equipping) you will be moved to another tier, and this won’t be long. This is not an exploit in our point of view. 

 

This system actually serves to help players who are buying new ships with no synergy - it gives you an ability to fly in previous tier for some time, before sending you off to higher tier. 

 

 

with a blue weapon

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/903258160886238940/6DE36BADA7F2CCA688A392D00BF4AEB29848AB0F/

 

without

http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/903258160886227606/B7A922A34948A917949191D939D18394D9834D5D/

It doesn’t matter at what  level the bars are, numbers are the same.

 

no they’re not the same because speedtank is superior to extra health. more health will give you a buffer, speedtank is like a resistance.

 

(Stuff about assists)

 

Then again, if you drop the bonuses granted by assists, then people who actually bother to assist will find themselves getting the shorter end of the stick and start to pick ships that give them higher efficiency over ships that are actually helpful. =(

Then again, if you drop the bonuses granted by assists, then people who actually bother to assist will find themselves getting the shorter end of the stick and start to pick ships that give them higher efficiency over ships that are actually helpful. =(

 

from my other thread ([http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/21196-random-suggestions/](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/21196-random-suggestions/)): G4. make buff/debuff assists 50 points, damage assists 100, kills 130, beacon caps 200. currently leading to improper rewards for poor gameplay. less beacon and assist farming…

 

only 10 points less for buff/debuff. so if you get 20 buff assists that’s 200 less points. but if you get 3 kills on average that’s 90 extra points, and extra 20 for each damage assist, if you get 5 of those (which you easily should) it will balance it out.

 

forces you to work more instead of just leeching farming… which means putting DPS on target…

 

also, here’s another suggestion from same thread: I2. give the commander 1 extra spawn during combat recon. it should alleviate most of the campiness, and reduce the amount of 30-second games… award the match to the team with the most commander kills. if they’re equal, based on points.

from my other thread ([http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/21196-random-suggestions/](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/21196-random-suggestions/)): G4. make buff/debuff assists 50 points, damage assists 100, kills 130, beacon caps 200. currently leading to improper rewards for poor gameplay. less beacon and assist farming…

 

only 10 points less for buff/debuff. so if you get 20 buff assists that’s 200 less points. but if you get 3 kills on average that’s 90 extra points, and extra 20 for each damage assist, if you get 5 of those (which you easily should) it will balance it out.

 

forces you to work more instead of just leeching farming… which means putting DPS on target…

 

also, here’s another suggestion from same thread: I2. give the commander 1 extra spawn during combat recon. it should alleviate most of the campiness, and reduce the amount of 30-second games… award the match to the team with the most commander kills. if they’re equal, based on points.

Huh… capturing Beacons IS part of the game. In fact, it’s exactly what you should be focusing on those matches, not killing people. If anything, what you really need are incentives for each and every game mode, which, btw, already exist. There’s no point in changing any of it.

 

As for that Recon option, no. Just no. The whole point of it is to kill the enemy captain. If you allow him to respawn, you’re just breaking the game mode. It’s YOUR fault for not putting up a decent defence on your Captain, not the fact that the enemy can waltz in and self-destruct like Aces.

Huh… capturing Beacons IS part of the game. In fact, it’s exactly what you should be focusing on those matches, not killing people. If anything, what you really need are incentives for each and every game mode, which, btw, already exist. There’s no point in changing any of it.

 

As for that Recon option, no. Just no. The whole point of it is to kill the enemy captain. If you allow him to respawn, you’re just breaking the game mode. It’s YOUR fault for not putting up a decent defence on your Captain, not the fact that the enemy can waltz in and self-destruct like Aces.

 

200 for a cap is sufficient reward. plus, capping beacons rarely wins games. most games are won by kills first, beacons second. that’s because if you cut the enemy off, split them up, destroy their reinforcements then they can’t mount a proper assault. so they can’t even take a beacon.

 

in fact, preventing the enemy from reaching beacons and regrouping is as important as taking the beacons.

 

as for the combat recon option, the point is still to kill the captain… you can now kill him TWICE… so that’s that…

 

it’s like a ‘vip’ mode… does it really matter how many times you kill the vip?..

 

in fact, in mw there was a medal awarded for most time spent in proximity to enemies. you could usually tell the best players by that medal. it’s not the same as damage, but usually being in proxomity to enemies means you were doing damage to them. combat awareness or something it was called. basically the ability to possess situational awareness and find enemies to shoot at to provide constant DPS, and not die (since if you’re dead its time not spent in proximity to enemies).

forces you to work more instead of just leeching farming… which means putting DPS on target…

 

When I play engie in T2, I generally prefer to stay out of trouble. At most I snipe from afar with positrons. Keeps me alive, so I can keep my teammates alive. My point is that I don’t need to shoot at things to help win the game; if I help my teammates outlast the opposition, we stand a better chance of winning, especially in realistic mode.

200 for a cap is sufficient reward. plus, capping beacons rarely wins games. most games are won by kills first, beacons second. that’s because if you cut the enemy off, split them up, destroy their reinforcements then they can’t mount a proper assault. so they can’t even take a beacon.

 

in fact, preventing the enemy from reaching beacons and regrouping is as important as taking the beacons.

 

as for the combat recon option, the point is still to kill the captain… you can now kill him TWICE… so that’s that…

 

it’s like a ‘vip’ mode… does it really matter how many times you kill the vip?..

> most Domination are won by kills first

 

YOU WHAT!? Do you even play the game!? The ONLY games where kills actually matter are Detonation and Recon. Where the xxxx are you getting the “kills matter more in Beacon modes”? Come on, you can’t possibly be this stupid!

 

Killing the enemy is a given, but Beacons DO take priority because they win you the game, not how many people you kill. And having your Captain die twice just shows how terrible your own team is and is very much not needed.

Killing the enemy is a given, but Beacons DO take priority because they win you the game, not how many people you kill.

Well in detonation your enemy(And your team) loses a point for every loss of ship. So if you can kill them faster than your points drop due to them having 2 or 3 beacons you can win without beacons…But that is practicly impossible :stuck_out_tongue:

When I play engie in T2, I generally prefer to stay out of trouble. At most I snipe from afar with positrons. Keeps me alive, so I can keep my teammates alive. My point is that I don’t need to shoot at things to help win the game; if I help my teammates outlast the opposition, we stand a better chance of winning, especially in realistic mode.

 

right, and with that approach you end up on top every time. which is why buff assists are OP along with kills+dmg on engi/command. problem is with people who rely solely on the buff assists and sit back and do nothing… not even popping their head out to provide some extra damage.

 

i just went 1-35 on a command and got top eff. can do it every time… one of the easiest classes to grind synergy on, and engineers.

 

the worst are probably tacklers, and empire lrfs… since they have to rely mostly on single-target debuffs (no aoe buffs/debuffs) and kills/damage assists…

 

> most Domination are won by kills first

 

YOU WHAT!? Do you even play the game!? The ONLY games where kills actually matter are Detonation and Recon. Where the xxxx are you getting the “kills matter more in Beacon modes”? Come on, you can’t possibly be this stupid!

 

Killing the enemy is a given, but Beacons DO take priority because they win you the game, not how many people you kill. And having your Captain die twice just shows how terrible your own team is and is very much not needed.

 

they are… the team that wins usually has most kills… that’s a statistical fact… proving that kills do in fact win games. they also increase enemy respawn times.

 

kills only matter in recon to an extent… can usually be settled by a proper recon/warpgate+covert rush on the commander. although in pubs, its admittedly harder to pull off but not impossible. done it countless times with the whole enemy team turtling around their commander, as long as my teammates are using the same playbook. although a team that gets more kills is usually more experienced and better able to pull it off.

 

in detonation they matter because kills prevent the enemy from reaching your beacons… as for the number of games settled by kill count, it’s actually in the minority (as in, down to the last 2 stations, or an equal station count).

 

stations are easy to kill, you can hand off the bomb at the plant to a teammate behind you. if done properly, hard to stop. especially with nuke+ecm cheese spam on top of it. especially if you’re doing better in kills, making it easier to reach those beacons and defend yours.

 

in any case, beacon caps are won because you were actually able to kill the defending/attacking forces… not by sitting around assist farming or crowding 5 men around a beacon.

 

imagine the dudes who kill the 5 attackers around a beacon and died… each netted a few measly points… the survivors when arrived late on the scene might even pick up a few kills/assists and a free 300 beacon cap points. it’s imbalanced. moral of the story: arrive late, stay behind and pick up the killsteals and the free beacon cap ftw…

No it is not, as soon as you get enough kills and synergy (if you get them at all, maxed out T2s quite easily pwn the ships you are equipping) you will be moved to another tier, and this won’t be long. This is not an exploit in our point of view. 

 

This system actually serves to help players who are buying new ships with no synergy - it gives you an ability to fly in previous tier for some time, before sending you off to higher tier.

Are you guys taking DSR into consideration? Because I have always been getting the same maximum match-making rank for a ship regardless of 0 synergy or max synergy, regardless of no weapon equipped or a purple weapon equipped. And not just with my current very high DSR but already when it was lower.

Just asking because if you are not then I’m bugged and need to file a bug report. ;D