Star Conflict OBT v 0.8.2 Update # 1 Discussion

[3338318]

Essentially, the mass heals have been nerfed far too hard. I did try thinking up a way to counter frigate balls, but it was disregarded, so I’ll put it in this way:

 

Yes, they are overpowered for  interceptors and fighters. Restoring 260pts of shield per second to a darned interceptor with 4000 odd shield points is ridiculous, and that’s not counting any modules said ship may have to improve its natural regeneration. If mass heals were percentage based, say 2% shield to all ships within xxxx metres per second, this would leave interceptors with a regen of 80pts per second. That’s about a third of 260. And that’s 50 seconds for a full heal (natural regen not included). Everyone has to sit out for an equal length of time before diving back in, instead of damaged guard frigates taking a good two minutes to get ready, and interceptors simply flying past an engy and ready to go once again.

 

Neither was the range much of a problem. 4km was a nice value: I could hide behind asteroids a way off and still provide some support for my team members without having to expose myself to focus fire. Granted, for remote shield generators, the range nerf was sorely needed. It now makes frigate balls much easier to take out with a well-placed nuke (EDIT: I’m not endorsing nuke spam, merely stating it would be more effective for this use). However, some players think the previous ranges were a little too large, so why not this:

 

Experimental at about 4km instead of… 4.8k, was it? That was far too large anyway.

Mk3 at about 3.8km

Military at about 3.5km

Mk2 at about 3.3km

Mk1 at 3km

 

If remote shield generators are that much of a problem, why not make them so that they only heal yourself, one target, and short out both yours and your target’s active modules for a good 7 seconds or so. Missile shield defence for engineer balls? Gone. Interceptor repellent? Gone. 7 seconds seems about an adequate time for a small group of interceptors to dive bomb one or two of the frigates and run like heck before the pulsar re-engages.

the 2% is too few, when attacked i’d like my engineer to atleast repair a bit of tank while getting hit

 

perhabs 4%? would still require 25 seconds but allows to fend off some slight damage. Or 3%, ~33 seconds, still doable to fall back and repair without having to wait 1/12th of the match before you can truly attack again.

 

edit: I’d prefer the current system, but since the devs seem intended on nerfing T1/2 soon we will rep more with 3% than with a boost in numbers…

[4507221]

Seriously? I… I am at loss for words at how bad at this the development team is.

 

You haven’t fixed anything. Engineers are still unable to do anything except suicide themselves in Tier 2, and from the sound of things buffing the remote shield generator isn’t going to fix the healing issues.

 

Yet again, I find myself repeating this tired old mantra…

 

The Problem Was Not The Healing Range!

 

The Problem Was The Healing RATE!

 

Engineers healed too fast! This applies doubly for Interceptors, and even more so in Tier 3.

 

We fixed range because it didn’t fit the intended role behaviour. We fixed rate, because you wanted it.

And you’re still coming back capsing and yelling. 

 

I will once again repeat - your opinion and feedback is not the only one. And once again - work on this role is not finished.

[Kine]

Antibus - these are the needed tweaks to engineers:

 

1. better module range

 

2. change to % based healing

 

3. nerf remote heals

[5770941]

Antibus - these are the needed tweaks to engineers:

 

1. better module range

 

2. change to % based healing

 

3. nerf remote heals

 

Like I kindly suggested.

[3855053]

2. change to % based healing

But please make that healing scaled by ship class. We don’t want silliness like triple shield extended guard frigates…

[5515275]

Here’s an idea, since engineers now need survivability more than ever, how about giving all engineers across all tiers 1 more active module? They are after all, engineers. This would allow them to fit in a resistance/coating mod for survivability. 

[3196685]

Antibus - these are the needed tweaks to engineers:

 

1. better module range

 

2. change to % based healing

 

3. nerf remote heals

exactly this… i am still amazed how the dev team thinks having 3-4x the standard regen could be fine…

[rakza]

I am somewhat afraid if we impose a minimum and maximum% without limit.

 

I think we may have an overpopulation of Jericho full shield.

I imagine the regen a full shield guard (gniakgniakgniak). And then it will be a problem.

And I’ll be the first to recognize it, as in 0.8.0 I believe the 75% damage with the phase shield was completely broken.

 

 

 

Posted Today, 03:36 PM

Kine, on 13 Jun 2013 - 14:12, said:[](< base_url >/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=203642)

2. change to % based healing

 

 

But please make that healing scaled by ship class. We don’t want silliness like triple shield extended guard frigates…

 

 I think the devs want to avoid that.

 

I guess the trick detonation and Combat reco.

 

The guard who take the bomb Ballzy Mode shouting “IM A GUARD I DONT CARE ABOUT YOUR PEWPEWPEW”

 

or

 

The guard captain afk faceroll in the multi-Phase shield adapter + Phase shield and shield booster emergency mode.

[4646028]

Edit: got ninja’d, quoting post above:

Here’s an idea, since engineers now need survivability more than ever, how about giving all engineers across all tiers 1 more active module? They are after all, engineers. This would allow them to fit in a resistance/coating mod for survivability. 

 

That is actually a great idea, Engineers could really use at least 1 more module considering the wide module options they allready have, but just cannot fit them…

 

They are after all, Engineers and in every game Engineers were always about bringing more utility (like portable shield is) into the game and being weaker at other areas like firepower and survivability. They should not be tanky as a half-guard. They should have survivabiltiy of a sniper frigate, with 4 turrets, be a little more maneuverable (rotation, pitch), have 75% of original healing range but more utility options (add more module spaces) to help them survive and support actively by using different skills and gadgets, not by pushing one button and forgeting about it, which takes no skill.

 

They should not be immobile tank ships with ultra healing support, but medium armored vessels with decent speed and a little more armor than fighters. it’s the wider number of module options that would enhance the gameplay and role of Engineers greatly. Until now, they have been just too tanky, slow and bulky to fit their role perfectly, Engis should be a little more agile and crafty. 

 

One again: This is not how and Engineer should be played, they should be more crafty. Adding more modules and changes I described would really define their role much better!

[Kine]

to avoid misunderstanding with % heals

 

• was first suggested back in April on the original flame report [thread](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/19405-healing-is-overpowered/page-2#entry196433)

 

suggestion is to make heals boost a % of your total hull / shield

 

There is no possibility to make healing OP when using % heals

except if you stack it ← which currently is not the case as Binky showed and confirmed by atleast one Dev member

 

Example:

 

Engineer Module: Remote Shield Repair heals self and one ship with lowest health by 33% of Shields

 

Interceptor with 3,400 shield is healed by 1,133 hp

Fighter with 5,600 shield is healed by 1,867 hp

Frigate with 8,900 shield is healed by 2,967 hp

 

Current module gives flat rate healing at a frigate grade amount of 2,650 hp

 

2,650 hp is basically reviving an interceptor who is about to die back to almost full health and the source of immortal ships when they are chained one at a time by a heal squad.

 

tactic will still work with % heals but depending on the exact % - you won’t be able to revive an interceptor using just one engineer.

using my example of 33% you will need 3 engineers to do what is a one man’s job

[3425114]

Wow I like where this is headed.  Some of the most responsive and intelligent balancing I have seen really.

 

Maybe you guys should look into long range frigates next.  I think they need some love.  Maybe tools that allow them to zone out frigate balls.    

[3402178]

We fixed range because it didn’t fit the intended role behaviour. We fixed rate, because you wanted it.

And you’re still coming back capsing and yelling. 

 

I will once again repeat - your opinion and feedback is not the only one. And once again - work on this role is not finished.

Here’s an idea then… what is the intended behaviour?

 

I think you need to come out and say it in plain English, because it’s pretty damn clear that the player base believes that the role of the Engineer is to “sit back and heal”, yet you don’t like the idea of Engineers who sit back - if you did, you wouldn’t decrease their healing range.

 

You could also kindly not lie to people - the healing rates have not changed in a way even remotely connected to what people have asked for. I don’t recall anyone ever asking for Engineers to be unable to heal anyone more than a ship’s length away. I know a lot of people who have said Engineers heal far too much damage, or that Interceptors benefit far too much compared to other classes, but I don’t remember ever seeing someone trot up and say “you know what would make Engineers totally fair and balanced? Reduce their healing range by about 1km!”

 

Nobody asked for that, and you wouldn’t be drawing anywhere near as much flak if you had just come out and done what everyone wanted in the first place - left the healing range alone, but changed healing so you could no-longer use it as a God Mode cheat.

[3043699]

player base believes that the role of the Engineer is to “sit back and heal”

No no no! Where you got that idea?. For me LRF is a useless booring class and I don’t want my Engy to become a booring one as well. Brawler is the way to go! With short range but still powerfull heals they are just like that. The problem i think is in T2, where engys die way to fast. It’s suggested for a guard frig to accompany an engy everywhere.

[3402178]

That isn’t what I meant by “sit back”, Sunder. I meant that Engineers should be engaging with long range guns (Hail plasma, Stabilized Railguns, etc) and buffing allies from a distance rather than being right in the middle of the brawl. They are simply too slow and too vulnerable in that role, and the Devs clearly didn’t want them to fill that niche since their firepower was dropped a while back.

[3855053]

Please please please steer clear of flat % of HP and instead just make healing scale by ship class. i.e. Sabre01’s suggestion of Interceptors receiving 40% of normal healing from the module, fighters 60% and frigates 100%.

If you literally make it % of modified HP you’ll get weird things happening like devalueing resists in favour of stacking shield extenders and reinforced beams, and Jericho and Empire supremacy over Fed.

[4662737]

Agree with the different healing rates based on ship size, instead of as a percentage. 

 

Apart from that… engies are still playable in T2, but that depends very heavily on your team now. I managed to get around 2k points with my Hydra 2 for three consecutive matches where we won, but you really need a good team (which fortunately was what I had). Teammates constantly attacking enemy beacons, defending our beacons, moving to the next unactivated beacon before the current one shut down… I was always surrounded by teammates. 

 

With the speed nerf for guard frigates, it now makes a lot more sense for engies and guards to pair up: I warp you to the frontline, and you protect me once we’re there.

[3338318]

Yeah…the healing rate is now laughable on my engi…I wasn’t really able to tank anything, and now it even worse! My shields are gone before I even know it.

[4662737]

Yeah…the healing rate is now laughable on my engi…I wasn’t really able to tank anything, and now it even worse! My shields are gone before I even know it.

 

Apparently the way to go for engies is to stack resists… it’s working for my Hydra 2, but I doubt it will save my Alligator-M.

[3402178]

Was going to post my thoughts here, but it turned into its own thread.

 

[http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/20082-yet-again-an-engineer-alteration-suggestion/](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/20082-yet-again-an-engineer-alteration-suggestion/)

[6293712]

+1 for the Development team just coming out and saying “This is our vision for Engineers” and being done with it. Would probably help out alot in trying to figure out just what direction their attempting to go in… but looking at it logically. 

 

A Healer, whether soley intended for that purpose needs one of two things to actually serve its purpose. The ability to survive, or the ability to evade/keep distance. If you give a ship a mass repair module (be it shields, hull etc) it becomes a healer. It will always be the primary target, no one is gonna sit there and shoot ships being healed, when they can shoot the healer first. Support dies first in combat. If given a choice of targets. 

 

Granted, no amount of survivability changes will protect a ship from getting wipe’d if its the primary target of sustained fire. That just makes sense.

 

But, maybe im wrong in thinking this but bear with me. The engineer ‘should’ be able to hang back from the front lines. Fitted with mid-long range guns, and the ability to support its allies. That actually works with what seems to be the Interceptors role, as the rock paper scissor methodology presented says.

 

Intys -> Frigates

Fighters -> Intys

Frigates -> Fighters

 

So the Inty should be busting through, or circumventing the “Battle line” to get at its choice targets. Using its speed, disabling mods etc. It may even give a little bit back to the LRF class. Sniping out healers. 

 

EDIT: To quote the Dev blog regarding ship roles:

 

Engineer Frigates are the heart of the fleet. Their main task is the support of allies and the re-allocation of ships on the battlefield. Engineers are the only ships, which have modules that repair allied ships. That is why they must remain behind the main line of attack and get protected against any attack from enemy ships.

 

 

But they cant stay behind the lines, and fulfill their roles really?

 

 

 

 

 

Beyond that. And im not sure if this has been mentioned previously or not… 

 

But if say, Guard Frigates are intended to protect those vulnerable support elements. Why not give them the means to protect them? And i dont mean just killing whatever comes at them. Give them a way to absorb the damage of their protected target. I know someone has mentioned buddy shields before. Why not a mod that lets the Guard absorb all incoming fire for its “buddy” for x amount of time. Or until killed.  Granted, what that will probably create is MORE frigate balls… possibly. 

 

Otherwise, really healing needs to be looked at it as a whole. Because no one is going to want to play a paper target, granted. This is a team game, and in teams Engineers (Very generally) hold up better. But so does everyone else, teamwork is an unaccountable variable. In that its going to vary wildly in how successful it is, or is not. 

 

 

It seems to me the Developers vision, and or the mass majority of player opinion. Is not being presented to the player base as a whole, which is what will lead to alot of these conflicts now and in the future.

 

Just my 2 cents, pardon me if it seems a little scattered trying to write this from work