Star Conflict OBT v 0.7.12

Ah, I might have screwed up the time frame on the patch, then. I just came back after a few weeks’ absence, you see. Still, the problem here isn’t just how they handled this recent patch, but their entire approach to community relations up until this point, in that there has been hardly any. This whole outrage could have been eliminated, or at least reduced, if we at least knew why the developers chose as they did. Of course, this assumes that the developers didn’t make these changes solely for the purpose of money grubbing.

 

*wonders if anyone else will read paragraphs that long. it’s the interwebz*

I like to hope.

OK, I may be over-thinking this, but here is my analysis of the changes in the reward system from my perspective:

Getting to r12 with a main faction and r13 with a sub-faction in about a week was the most SEAMLESS and PLEASANT leveling experience I ever had with any game, online or offline, that comes to mind. I could afford new, higher rank ships as soon as I unlocked them. I never had to stop and farm, the whole process never felt like a grind or a chore.

There was a positive feedback loop about it: you played, you had fun and got rep and loyalty and credits, you unlocked better ships and equipment that you could afford, with which you had even more fun and potential for even more rewards, which made you want to play more and the cycle repeated.

Please realize that most other developers can only dream of delivering such a damn near flawless leveling experience.

Depending on what you wanted to focus on, every option was viable:

  • If you wanted more loot chances, you could do PVE.
  • If you wanted more loyalty, you could do more contracts.
  • If you wanted more rep, you could get your best +% reward ship in the tier you felt more successful.
  • If you wanted more credits, you could play in the tier you felt was more profitable.
  • If you wanted to just have fun, you could play in the tier you felt was more fun/balanced.
    No matter what you did, you almost always made meaningful progression in everything.

And then v.0.7.10 happened. It is now possible to make no progression in loyalty after a game. IT GOES DOWNHILL FROM THERE. Which brings us to today.

Now progressing feels like a chore. It seems like you have to jump through all sorts of hoops to accomplish something. Your rep and loyalty go out of sync. Doing contracts in lower ranks (because they are easier to do there, or you just don’t have the ship classes you need for them in your current rank) reduces your rep gain. You have to spend time farming credits. Focusing on one reward works against the others.

There are also plenty of conflicting incentives. As Aedwynn noted, you make players farm credits at a lower rank before advancing to the next, but hurt their credit income when they do so. You make progression so worrisome, then tell us to just have fun and not worry about progression. THAT’S WHAT WE WERE DOING BEFORE. We were having fun and progression just happened. YOU made us worry about progression.

Regarding the increased Mk I prices and buying fully equipped ships to help new players (at higher prices): Um… huh? What? Having extremely cheap Mk I stuff meant that you could afford to experiment. You could buy a module, see how it worked and decide what suits your playstyle better. You could then come up with the order in which you would level your sub-factions to get the Mk III stuff. Now the ships are more expensive to buy, with modules that are more expensive to replace, which means less experimentation. Excuse me, how does this help inexperienced players again? Does it help them REMAIN inexperienced? I must have missed all those forums posts saying “this large variety of affordable modules is straining my fragile little mind, halp”. Or the posts going “after 20 minutes of gameplay I am still getting my inexperienced and under-equipped butt kicked, please fix” for that matter.

Finally, I would like to bring up the human psychology factor. People don’t like being told what to do, even if they were likely to do something on their own anyway. I liked doing contracts before. I would always check out if there were any contracts off cooldown, because I felt that doing them saved me some time in the long run. I HATE doing contracts now. Stop forcing people to play your game the way you think it should be played, doing so never ends well.

TL;DR: Revert the reward system to v.0.7.9 (except maybe the repair costs).
 

The matchmaking is changed server sided and it has got a few improvements during the last days.

We are still reading your feedback of course it will be improved even more.

Hello…

Sorry but i don`t see changes in matchmaking system. 

Today battle:

mmsc.jpg

 

No one from my corp want to play anymore. Just play one or two battles per day.

No post from Devs. They count only money? 

Give people “carrot” not push to p2w.

Rollback patch or fix. Right now is not playable for most players.

 

The matchmaking is changed server sided and it has got a few improvements during the last days.

We are still reading your feedback of course it will be improved even more.

http://i.imgur.com/0YF62mw.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/HtutIT8.jpg

i had 3 such games actually, but i didnt screen the 3rd one. it is my first time when i see bots in the arcade mode.

Its either the new changes working, or a lot of players really quited the game after last patch.

We’ll see how it goes later in the evening, when, hopefully, there will be more players online.

 

 

OK, I may be over-thinking this, but here is my analysis of the changes in the reward system from my perspective:

Getting to r12 with a main faction and r13 with a sub-faction in about a week was the most SEAMLESS and PLEASANT leveling experience I ever had with any game, online or offline, that comes to mind. I could afford new, higher rank ships as soon as I unlocked them. I never had to stop and farm, the whole process never felt like a grind or a chore.

There was a positive feedback loop about it: you played, you had fun and got rep and loyalty and credits, you unlocked better ships and equipment that you could afford, with which you had even more fun and potential for even more rewards, which made you want to play more and the cycle repeated.

Please realize that most other developers can only dream of delivering such a damn near flawless leveling experience.

Depending on what you wanted to focus on, every option was viable:

  • If you wanted more loot chances, you could do PVE.

  • If you wanted more loyalty, you could do more contracts.

  • If you wanted more rep, you could get your best +% reward ship in the tier you felt more successful.

  • If you wanted more credits, you could play in the tier you felt was more profitable.

  • If you wanted to just have fun, you could play in the tier you felt was more fun/balanced.

No matter what you did, you almost always made meaningful progression in everything.

And then v.0.7.10 happened. It is now possible to make no progression in loyalty after a game. IT GOES DOWNHILL FROM THERE. Which brings us to today.

Now progressing feels like a chore. It seems like you have to jump through all sorts of hoops to accomplish something. Your rep and loyalty go out of sync. Doing contracts in lower ranks (because they are easier to do there, or you just don’t have the ship classes you need for them in your current rank) reduces your rep gain. You have to spend time farming credits. Focusing on one reward works against the others.

There are also plenty of conflicting incentives. As Aedwynn noted, you make players farm credits at a lower rank before advancing to the next, but hurt their credit income when they do so. You make progression so worrisome, then tell us to just have fun and not worry about progression. THAT’S WHAT WE WERE DOING BEFORE. We were having fun and progression just happened. YOU made us worry about progression.

Regarding the increased Mk I prices and buying fully equipped ships to help new players (at higher prices): Um… huh? What? Having extremely cheap Mk I stuff meant that you could afford to experiment. You could buy a module, see how it worked and decide what suits your playstyle better. You could then come up with the order in which you would level your sub-factions to get the Mk III stuff. Now the ships are more expensive to buy, with modules that are more expensive to replace, which means less experimentation. Excuse me, how does this help inexperienced players again? Does it help them REMAIN inexperienced? I must have missed all those forums posts saying “this large variety of affordable modules is straining my fragile little mind, halp”. Or the posts going “after 20 minutes of gameplay I am still getting my inexperienced and under-equipped butt kicked, please fix” for that matter.

Finally, I would like to bring up the human psychology factor. People don’t like being told what to do, even if they were likely to do something on their own anyway. I liked doing contracts before. I would always check out if there were any contracts off cooldown, because I felt that doing them saved me some time in the long run. I HATE doing contracts now. Stop forcing people to play your game the way you think it should be played, doing so never ends well.

TL;DR: Revert the reward system to v.0.7.9 (except maybe the repair costs).

 

In last few patches economics was changed in a way to force player to donate real money. Or strugle if he wont do so.

It is quite clear if u look at whole picture.

Less income, increase price of ships, increase price of mk1 to make experimenting more expencive. And if u are doing pve and have a lot of green modules to fully fit your new ship, u have to spend money on mk1 anyway.

All of that forces to buy a licence to have more income or u will have to farm all day long. Im sure they will nerf scenarios in future, they alredy did it with the loot nerf, next stop - credits reward.

If u look at the loyality changes u will see that now players have to spend huge ammount of time to fully fit their ship in blue modules. On top of that, they have to spend even more money to do that. They have to level different fractions wich requires buying lots of new ships+mk1’s (wich have increased cost now).

BUT! There is always a gold variant of every mk3 module and u dont have to earn access to it! Just buy it with real money and u are good to go! Pwn some newbs who are grinding to their blue modules mouth over a mounth. just donate some money, fit ur ship in gold and u will instantly have a noitceable advantage over the ship fitted in mk2. No time wasted, no grind needed.

They just turning this game into a pay-to-win. Step by step. Yes u dont have better stats with this items, but u will have access to them immidietly after u donate. A lot faster then any average player who does not donate.

The matchmaking is changed server sided and it has got a few improvements during the last days.

We are still reading your feedback of course it will be improved even more.

 

I want to be sure If I got this right, the matchmaking system separates us within rank, currently I am put in rank 30 when queuing for tech 2 games, before this I was put at rank 29.  So I am classed as a tech 3 ship while in a tech2 vessel. Technologically I am still outclassed by tech3 vessels.

 

But since I am rank 30 in the matchmaking system, would that mean low skilled tech 3’s of that rank would be put in my games? I can understand having a player with a low skill level and a high tech level hull in a game. Actually I have noticed a less amount of players of lower tech levels entering the higher up matches.

 

Though I still gotta say that the tech levels of these ships play way too differently from one another. Tech1 is weaker than tech2, tech2 can barely match up against tech3, but tech3 can match up with a tech4. I mean you guys should know this since you designed them. Skill or not, these lower tech levels still have a disadvantage from the higher ones and if you play a low tech ship against a high one, anyone would notice this difference.

Atleast you are no upto 39 like pretty much all of us are :F

vPyl3cV.jpg

 

Yeah, nice balance. I am put in mid t2 with t1 ships.

In  battle I was only one fielding all T1 ships, all 3 of mine was shot dowm by same t2 fox  with mkII sniper plasma. Yep, I scored 7 kills and came 2nd in chart but generally I was hugely penalised - no chance of killing even t1 ships if some t2 interferes midway. I just got lucky to shot those flying solo.

And if I even dare to mix in T2 ship I’ll instantly jump to 32+ rating - with my green/ mkII /mk I geared ship.

Atleast you are no upto 39 like pretty much all of us are :F

 

I get put in that rank when I’m using tech 3’s

I get put in that rank when I’m using tech 3’s

 

Tech 2 :frowning:

The matchmaking is changed server sided and it has got a few improvements during the last days.

We are still reading your feedback of course it will be improved even more.

Translation: 01100111 01100101 01110100 00100000 01100010 01100101 01101110 01110100 00100000 01101000 01110101 01101101 01100001 01101110 01110011

 

Error- It’s been 5 days, I’ve barely played the sh+t you turned SC into and the only message you can convey to us is that you are ‘improving the MM’. You tell us that you’re listening right after telling us that you haven’t changed the MM back to the awesome way that 90% of the playerbase enjoyed it.

 

Maybe your English isn’t so good? I’ll make it very clear: UN MIX THE TIERS.

Un-shake the frakking baby. Make this one *very specific*, *very simple* change and people will stop b+tching, start playing, and you’ll get your frakking cashflow going again.

Just posted earlier also mentioning how perfect SC was just weeks ago. Literally the most fun I’ve ever had in an mmo- and I’ve played quite a few. Makes this 7.12 bullsh+t all the more frustrating.

I bet if they undid the last patches (from loyalty nerf to now) we’d be up to 10K player peaks in no time thanks to the constant stream of new guys from steam trying this game out.

 

I’d switch to War Thunder (been hearing a lot of good things about that recently and players on their forum sure seem enthusiastic enough) but for a slight little problem: A few weeks back I’d probably have heard the same about Star Conflict and the forum was still happy back then as well.

 

So I guess the simple truth is I won’t even try out War Thunder because I don’t trust Gaijin enough anymore to believe they will not do the exact same stuff over there.

^^ If they undid the 7.12 patch I, and every friend I initially played with (before April 5th), would play again.

 The only explanation you`ll get is the patchnotes from the original 7.12 thread. Well, that and a simplified explanation from an admin who could care less what we want.

Personaly I dont care if the devs never explain a thing as long as they rollback the 7.12 patch.

Rollbacks aren’t an option so much as a last resort for pretty much any human-designed progressive system.  Like a game in beta.  Or even the government of a nation.  You (and others) have spent good time putting effort into changes, and what, you are asked to just throw it all away?  Not gonna happen except in extreme circumstances when things are really so bad that its the only way to avoid very obvious and/or imminent catastrophe. 

 

The way things get dealt with by creators and modifiers of systems is to only treat a rollback as a last resort at best, and a complete taboo otherwise.  The way things get done is that they don’t roll back.  Instead, they work on a new set of changes.  These changes may set some things back to values closer to a previous state, sure, but it won’t be a pure rollback.  Doesn’t even matter if its a game or some other system like utility software, or the Playstation online store, or a political body (goodness knows the American government is chock full of effective “patches,” they only actually “rollback” something on extremely rare occasions, much prefering to simply modify stuff instead).

 

So really.  Don’t ask for them to roll stuff back.  Ever.  Ask for them to change it. 

So really.  Don’t ask for them to roll stuff back.  Ever.  Ask for them to change it. 

They were asked to leave the mixing of tears alone according to the poll they made.

 

They didn’t and so far the playerbase has gone down by roughly 50% whenever i take a quick look at how many are online throughout the whole day.

This game will die if they keep mixed tiers.

8 months to go till Star Citizen alpha :slight_smile:

Yeah I just want a clear statement on whether they intend to separate the tiers again. No more vague, empty ‘we’ve improved the matchmaking’ responses. I’d rather just know one way or another so I can stop bothering to check up on this.

wtf man it is still same and Error you lying us in our face?

i was taking break from this game but thinking abt going back due to your post .but its all same

our voice is loud and clear

bring back 0.7.10

or u lose everone of us