Please fix Captain selection process: https://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?showtopic=23113
Thank You.
Please fix Shrapnel. It is useless atm.
Please fix Shrapnel. It is useless atm.
Thank god :taunt:
Please fix Shrapnel. It is useless atm.
Lets see here…
Famous 70k Styx
VS
T4 SuperNova RF blaster vs T3 Shrapnel Canon
a) Now this calculation will not include healing that would affect end result by not much in one of the cases
b) Instead of J9 implant used in original build to inflate survivability rating, we are going to use Gigas 2 and assume there is only 1 lock (you), so you will see +12 resist in every field for EHP calculations
So the actual DPS of T4 SuperNova RFblaster (Snibs screenshot from earlier in this thread) is:
(DPS+DPS x Crit_Chance x Crit_DMG) x Time_To_OverHeat/(Time_To_Overheat+Time_To_Cooldown)
(2350+2350x0.45x0.75)x8.3/(8.3+1.5)=2662 - Actual prolonged DPS (“normalized” for crit chance and overheat - cool off cycles)
T3 Shrapnel Canon By Tillowaty
(1578+1578x0.67x0.85)x7/(7+2)=1926
So we have 2662 EM DPS VS 1926 Kin DPS
Obviously i am ignoring Orion and missiles and plasma arc and so forth.
Now Back to Styx:
That build has
Hull EHP at (Kin/EM/Therm) 48146 / 65239 / 56693
Shield EHP (Kin/EM/Therm) 23197 / 14605 / 18901
Total: (Kin/EM/Therm) 71343 / 79845 / 75594
Now If you are alone and to take Styx from Full hp to zero (again, no heals, 100% accuracy rate and so on)
T4 SuperNova RFB = 79845/2662 =30 seconds
T3 Shrapnel = 71343/1926 = 37 seconds
Now lets imagine for a second 1 more thing, that Styx has no shields (like that ever happens)
T4 SuperNova RFB = 65239/2662 =24 seconds
T3 Shrapnel = 48146/1926 = 25 seconds
Conclusion, Max HP pool is not that effective that a lot of people think.
P.S. did i mention that Shrapnel is not that bad?
P.P.S. Now to wait for Snib to fix my math :lol:
Apples and oranges much? Would make sense to compare similar builds/ship bonuses/boosters, don’t you think? 
You get roughly 45% more DPS out of supernova RFB compared to shaped charge shrapnel. Even supernova plasma gun has higher DPS than that shrapnel.
And all that is theoretical, because while you have no trouble hitting a Styx maybe, try putting full shrapnel dps on an interceptor.
Dev might want to invent a new kinetic weapon for inty if they find it too hard to balance Shrap.
Apples and oranges much? Would make sense to compare similar builds/ship bonuses/boosters, don’t you think?
You get roughly 45% more DPS out of supernova RFB compared to shaped charge shrapnel. Even supernova plasma gun has higher DPS than that shrapnel.
And all that is theoretical, because while you have no trouble hitting a Styx maybe, try putting full shrapnel dps on an interceptor.
a) Since i am at work and don’t have numbers for RFB on Eagle B, feel free to post a “working” weapon screen for EagleB, ill re run calculations
b) it is not 45% Dps it is about 30%
c) Good luck hitting interceptors with RFB SuperNova on a Eagle-B (Shrapnel is from that ship), if anything it is gonna be much much harder
d) Shrapnel was never intended to be anti interceptor weapon, never, but due to very high alpha and much easier way to hit interceptors after getting use to it, it was purely used by everyone with half a brain for those purposes.
Can’t give you a weapon screenshot, I have neither an Eagle-B nor an Mk.4 T3 RFB. But I can give you the result of the calculation.
That’s sustained DPS, i.e. without overheating the weapon. Tillo uses boosters but they were ignored for the calculation since I did not know their stats off the top of my head.
difference between the two gets even bigger after adjusting for spread
Lets see here…
Famous 70k Styx
VS
T4 SuperNova RF blaster vs T3 Shrapnel Canon
a) Now this calculation will not include healing that would affect end result by not much in one of the cases
b) Instead of J9 implant used in original build to inflate survivability rating, we are going to use Gigas 2 and assume there is only 1 lock (you), so you will see +12 resist in every field for EHP calculations
So the actual DPS of T4 SuperNova RFblaster (Snibs screenshot from earlier in this thread) is:
(DPS+DPS x Crit_Chance x Crit_DMG) x Time_To_OverHeat/(Time_To_Overheat+Time_To_Cooldown)
(2350+2350x0.45x0.75)x8.3/(8.3+1.5)=2662 - Actual prolonged DPS (“normalized” for crit chance and overheat - cool off cycles)
T3 Shrapnel Canon By Tillowaty
(1578+1578x0.67x0.85)x7/(7+2)=1926
So we have 2662 EM DPS VS 1926 Kin DPS
Obviously i am ignoring Orion and missiles and plasma arc and so forth.
Now Back to Styx:
That build has
Hull EHP at (Kin/EM/Therm) 48146 / 65239 / 56693
Shield EHP (Kin/EM/Therm) 23197 / 14605 / 18901
Total: (Kin/EM/Therm) 71343 / 79845 / 75594
Now If you are alone and to take Styx from Full hp to zero (again, no heals, 100% accuracy rate and so on)
T4 SuperNova RFB = 79845/2662 =30 seconds
T3 Shrapnel = 71343/1926 = 37 seconds
Now lets imagine for a second 1 more thing, that Styx has no shields (like that ever happens)
T4 SuperNova RFB = 65239/2662 =24 seconds
T3 Shrapnel = 48146/1926 = 25 seconds
Conclusion, Max HP pool is not that effective that a lot of people think.
P.S. did i mention that Shrapnel is not that bad?
P.P.S. Now to wait for Snib to fix my math :lol:
Here you go, Comparable builds from the same ship:
-
MK4 gives about ~80 DPS gain
-
Build on the left is actually the one directly comparable to Shrapnels build in efficiency - because the SuperNova will not hit anything smaller than a Frigate, you will even have problems hitting good Valors with that thing
Calculations:
(1570+1570*0.64*1.1)*9/10.5 = 2293
For a full DPS build that has no place in comparison to Shrapnel Cannon
(1982+1982*0.64*1.1)*9/10.5 = 2894 (but if you going for a full DPS build vs frigates you should use 2x Infrareds, since you’re not hitting anything else anyways -> 3082 dps)
So now you have a
Shrapnel: 1926 Kinetic DPS, constant 2.5 Spread, 1750 max range, 3156 Projectile speed
VS
RFB: 2293 EM DPS, 0.9 -> 2.7 Spread, 1450 max range, 3568 projectile speed
Now, going back to that Styx with ~70k Survivability rating:
T3 Shrapnel = 71343/1926 = 37 seconds
T3 RFB_____ = 79845/2293 = 34 seconds
T3 Shrapnel = 48146/1926 = 25 seconds (NO SHIELDS)
T3 RFB_____ = 65239/2293 = 28 seconds (NO SHIELDS)
Due to fixed spread and increase in dps for Shrapnel it became way more useful vs Fighters and Frigates, while it lost its unprecedented and unintended effectiveness vs interceptors, it is still useful vs Inties but you need a ship with At Least 2 CPU slots, 1xCPU+J2 implant won’t cut it, at all.
I have to agree with my NASA buddies. They are smarter then me at math apparently.
The shrapnel lost its good “Overall” Usefulness. Especially in T2 where those exceptional pilots used it to decimate anything or everything in there path.
Now its best to use the RFB, but even that has limited success against good interceptor pilots. Heck, I have to be within around 700 meters away from a fast and evasive enemy interceptor to hit him reliably with RFB. whereas the original Shrapnel, it was all about timing and aim. Now its not.
The go to weapon against another interceptor is lost, there is no weapon to counter.
I have to agree with my NASA buddies. They are smarter then me at math apparently.
The shrapnel lost its good “Overall” Usefulness. Especially in T2 where those exceptional pilots used it to decimate anything or everything in there path.
Now its best to use the RFB, but even that has limited success against good interceptor pilots. Heck, I have to be within around 700 meters away from a fast and evasive enemy interceptor to hit him reliably with RFB. whereas the original Shrapnel, it was all about timing and aim. Now its not.
The go to weapon against another interceptor is lost, there is no weapon to counter.
Also, in high tiers EVERYONE tanks EM because of positron and bubble spam. But most people forget to cover the kin hole of their ships. I’m having a lot of fun with my assault rail tackler thanks to that.
Also, in high tiers EVERYONE tanks EM because of positron and bubble spam. But most people forget to cover the kin hole of their ships. I’m having a lot of fun with my assault rail tackler thanks to that.
You sly dog you. Does anyone even bother with Thermal resistance in higher tiers?
don’t know what you lot are whining about, 2 spread reductions in the cpu and shrapnel is still good. sure it’s not as over powered as before but its still a decent damage dealer. you just have to hit more reliably because you can’t 3 shot everything with a CO anymore, big whoop
You sly dog you. Does anyone even bother with Thermal resistance in higher tiers?
Some snipers ubertanking thermal for sniper duels. Other than that, not really.
one upside of the shrapnel is still, it does do kinetic damage.
plasma however loses a lot of damage in the hull to resistance, because it’s a dps weapon.
my DSR goes automatically up if i fly a kinetic set, even if i am way more damagedealing with a plasma set.
nova rfb is quite suicidal on an eagle-b anyway, no matter how much dps you get out of it.
one upside of the shrapnel is still, it does do kinetic damage.
plasma however loses a lot of damage in the hull to resistance, because it’s a dps weapon.
my DSR goes automatically up if i fly a kinetic set, even if i am way more damagedealing with a plasma set.
nova rfb is quite suicidal on an eagle-b anyway, no matter how much dps you get out of it.
I fly more EM, my 3 main ships are Covert Ops, Gunship and Long Range (Disintegrator), all are equipped with an EM weapon (RF Blaster, Singularity, Positron), EM deals more Dps and more Crit damage, universal EM is perfect, but on a hard fitted Styx it’s a joke…
Let’s enjoy kinetic rockets and Plasma Arc!
You sly dog you. Does anyone even bother with Thermal resistance in higher tiers?
I max out thermal resists and in T4 I still get 60% of the incoming damage AFTER resists being thermal. So definitely.
Eviscerador is right about the kinetic hole, but it’s not forgetting it, at least in my case it’s a conscious trade-off. You see so little kinetic damage that on some ships it’s not worth plugging that hole.
Am I the only crazy guy that runs Super Novas on RFBs exclusively?!
God, its all about turning and weaving like a crazy lunatic but keeping your aim near perfect! That’s how you do it!
Supernova plasma guns are ultimate killers now.