Star Conflict 1.3.4 Discussion

Mercenary Center Patch Discussion
141

 

 

jfc, you just don’t add such a thing as ‘LUCK’ in a game economy balancing, WTF??

It’s ok to base getting stuff by chance, but you don’t roll your game around ‘luck’ as a factor… come on…

 

[CinnamonFake](< base_url >/index.php?/user/257821-cinnamonfake/) (Yesterday, 06:08 PM): 
There’s no such parameter as luck in the game. Pilots as always have chances to get one particular thing in treir loot.

 

You said so yourself:

[CinnamonFake](< base_url >/index.php?/user/257821-cinnamonfake/) (25 March 2016 - 02:08 PM): 
Luck takes a part in equations)

 

 

[CinnamonFake](< base_url >/index.php?/user/257821-cinnamonfake/) (Yesterday, 08:39 PM): 

Some pilots already got more than before. Random is random. No need to extrapolate one particular number to the whole game for everyone.

So those particular people who get tons of bad ‘randoms’ aren’t ‘lucky’ enough… exactly the case of revolving the game around ‘luck’ as the rewarding factor. I wasn’t talking about ‘luck’ being an ingame parameter, i was talking about it being on the dev team’s thoughts as a development plan.

 

 

 

[CinnamonFake](< base_url >/index.php?/user/257821-cinnamonfake/) (Yesterday, 08:18 PM): 

Random is a cruel thing.

It’s what i’ve been trying to say from the beginning…

Please stop contradicting yourself, i don’t like people who contradict themselves.

142

@CinnamonFake

 

I know that end-game should be hard. Damn it, I even like grinding! I liked a lot going around in open space and feeling super good every time I found a neodium ore in a material node, back when t3 destroyers where released. But you have to understand that with this patch you made the grind much, much worse.

 

Let me explain this with an example.

 

Before the patch you had to gain 2 ores for each neodium plate. Let’s say that a player finds 2 neodium ores every day, by playing 2 hours in OS. With 1.3.4, you increased the amount of ores needed by 5 times. So, we now need 10 ores. Let’s say that the player still plays OS for one hour each day, and that during this hour he finds 1 ore. So now he still needs 9 more ores to get the same amount of plates (1) he got each day before the patch. He then plays 1 hour of pvp. The average match in t3 lasts about 8 minutes. So, 60/8 is around 8 (in reality, 7,5) matches. Let’s imagine that this player is an ace, that wins every battle he fights. He doesn’t own a license, so he gets 3 attempts per win. He should at least find 1 neodium each match, but that, unfortunately, isn’t the case: the day the patch came out, I’ve won 10 matches. Got 1 ore without a license. Where are my other 8 ores?

 

You see what you’ve done, now?

 

We aren’t earning NEARLY the same amount of materials we got before.

 

The possible solutions are 2, and they are very simple.

 

  • You could revert back the cost for each plate to 2 (neodium) and 3 (beryllium). You need to do this because getting 1 ore in pvp/pve requires the same amount of time of getting it in OS. We aren’t getting more materials IN ANY WAY. 

 

  • You could increase the chance of getting a rare material after a win by at least 8 times.

 

Please, try to understand my point. 

143

@CinnamonFake

 

About the resources in the update 1.3.4:

I am sorry to say, but changing the amount of resources from 2 to 10 and 3 to 10 for neodium and beryllium plates, now dramatically changes/increases crafting requirements for rank 8 and rank 11 Destroyers.

Look, I really like this game, but when it comes to economy, this game really much worse now. We wanted this, yes, but not in such way. It was poorly executed. Game is out of beta stage for a long time now.

Such system should be tested on Public Test servers. Nobody got informed about this in advance.

 

About the Store:

Bundle packs still offer the same random resources and they provide the same amount of “random” resources as before for the same price. Yes, for the same price!

If you can increase the base change of such drops, like neodium and beryllium ore, or neodium plates and enriched rods and increase the amount for such items by 3, then this change is justified, because it’s balanced!

So, did you balance Store Packs or not? Otherwise it just means that you get almost 3 times less of “random” resources for the same price, if you wish to get fresh resources.

 

Summary:

This is getting out of hand.

I still remember the Crew issue back then, but at least it got corrected, many minor things, but then, ranked rewards for veterans, which were never properly handled and now this.

People on Steam complained about the grind, but any negative feedback was quickly denied from SC Team, which actually stated, that Star Conflict is one of most promising from an economic and grind perspective.

Balancing could have been much better executed and we could at least be briefed, before it happened.

 

Good thing is that you can still make it right and revert certain changes and make it more reasonable. If nothing else, revert ore changes. 10 ores is really too much for 1 plate or rod. Give me a break. This is greed.

As for the value of a license. It’s a matter of interpretation.

I do not care in what kind of term, base, proportional or absolute it is measured, bottom point is, that in the same amount of x days I will have less monocrystals than before with a license.

 

Just say that you’re greedy. I will understand. It’s not a disease. It’s a state of mind.

But do not tell me, that you wanted to reduce the grind and offer more resources to players to create new ships, such as Secret Projects and Destroyers.

This simply isn’t the case. It may appear so, but only at first glance, but the overall statistics would not confirm your story and you did not back it up with any proof or solid evidence to confirm your statements.

 

The most important aspect of this game was the squadding system for me and playing with friends in PvP against other 2, 3 or 4 men squads, even multiple. It presented a challenge… Now there is no such things.

Now that this feature is gone and nobody plays in 2-men squads anymore, I do not see any more real potential in this game. League mode is not a substitute for that.

People mainly use Destroyers and you make a kill in the last minute, evade them and hope for the win. Mostly, that’s how Tier 3 GS Tournaments are now played in 75% of cases. We have recordings of such matches in DESU.

 

I suspect that you will probably make those changes further worse now and that you will not actually try to correct this problem, because you will deny it. Well, you will realize that g4borg was right all along. I agree with him.

Maybe you need such experience, if it happens. Decisions have consequences in both successes and failures. You can do whatever you want with your game, just be honest and tell me the truth.

144

Koromac is in overkill mode and he’s kinda right. No more feedback required, all summarized right up here. I’m waiting for some ninja patches of hope and monos. For the time being, vouchers are my daily log in. Sad.

145

 [CinnamonFake](< base_url >/index.php?/user/257821-cinnamonfake/) (Yesterday, 06:39 PM): 

Some pilots already got more than before. Random is random. No need to extrapolate one particular number to the whole game for everyone.

 

Please name ONE pilot. I want to verify that. Almost whole DESU didn’t get a single mono from PvP in last 2 days, I asked in OWLs - someone got 2, as I asked NASA - they just laughed about monos from PvP.  I got data from over a thousand battles in PvP now and we are talking  about 11 (eleven) monocrystals. According to statistics - a little over thousand samples gives me 95% of confidence of drop rate. I didn’t go for amount of loot spots (I should), but if that is taken into account as well we are talking something between 5000 and 7000 loot spots. 

So “random is random” doesn’t work here anymore. We are talking about 1.1% drop chance of monocrystal per PvP battle ± 0.1%. 

 

So you are saying that someone is doing over 300 wins per day? Cause that’s what it takes to get those 3 monocrystals your team took from Open Space missions. 

 

 

 

 [CinnamonFake](< base_url >/index.php?/user/257821-cinnamonfake/) (Yesterday, 06:27 PM): 

Suspicions always remains suspicions. Our purpose was to make loot more approachable and less grindy for all pilots, alowing them to do what they want in the game and be rewarded.

 

Then you failed. I don’t care, cause I don’t need any resources now. 

146

  1. I’m getting 0 to none monos from PVP/PVE

  2. Purpule loot is crap for me from day 1 (got maybe 2 BP alltogether)

3)I get a berrie from time to time in R11 but it’s still to little

So I think niri is on target, unless RU players get a lot of monos & the rest dont

147

I’ve had one Mono in three days. I’ve had 3 Neo, one of which I got from Open Space.

 

Blatant lies are blatant - this is a crippling reduction in income. The thing is, I actually think the resource drop rates are about right. The only issue is the increase in Neo / Beril needed and the slashing of OS Monos!

148

Ez fix: undo the mono OS change and the neo/berry ore change.

149

95qkYS8.jpg

 

Did anyone else found Enriched berry in their loot? I found one earlier in co-op mode.

150

95qkYS8.jpg

Did anyone else found Enriched berry in their loot? I found one earlier in co-op mode.

Omg no I haven’t. So far I’ve only found one berry ore. XD

They must have allowed mysterious container drops to happen occasionally. That’s good.

151

No i dont think that mysterious container drops are in the loot for pvp/pve/coop.
As far as i know mysterious container is a special thing for open space.
It has its own “loot list” of items that it will drop as variouse % rates. including blueprints and rare materials.
Just cause a drop gives a rare material doesnt make it a mysterious container drop.

Its more like that “Super” rare materials such as “enriched beryllium, enriched neodium, graphite plate, etc” are all part of the pvp/pve/coop loot list.

Its just that the chance of getting is none to extremly low.

Before this update. I did found 2 enriched beryllium on openspace.
Both times it was from a lost cargo container.

After the update i havent bother playing this game much, This was a huge blow to my face.

 

I think a better way of implementing this would have been to spawn valuable mineral, mineral crystals inside the pvp. pve, coop match.

You would need collect this during the match and you get to keep what you collect if you stay alive or with whats in your cargohull when the match ends.
And revert back to old loot system.

Anyway…
Since this patch had “extrimental things in it”. i hope you take a good, hard and look at the feedback given by the community and act upon it.

 

152

Having loot gathered in the match would distract from the goals. I agree that there needs to be a better system for this, but having minerals in PvP/PvE isn’t the way to do it.

Whatever happens, it just needs to remove some of the randomness and make it more worth-while.

Also those awful credit drops need to be removed. That, Silicon, and Vanadium. Nobody needs Silicon or Metal Blanks.

153

Ez fix: undo the mono OS change and the neo/berry ore change.

This. This right here.

154

Just a humble comment: if players are “forced” to play rank 11 ships then also “force” them having 4 ships mounted because of the already known reasons. Just for another experiment. Lets see how it would work.

155

Just a humble comment: if players are “forced” to play rank 11 ships then also “force” them having 4 ships mounted because of the already known reasons. Just for another experiment. Lets see how it would work.

Such system is really poor. I do not want to be restricted with my ships and my setups, just to obtain some possible resources.

This system could also work much better with the contracts, where certain contract would also yield some material, impure or whole. It doesn’t have to be only meant for Leagues.

To avoid randomness, it would be necessary to implement some of my suggestions about resources and adapt them a bit:

 

[http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/29896-league-team-introduce-new-contract-assignments-and-rewards/](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/29896-league-team-introduce-new-contract-assignments-and-rewards/)

 

[http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/29895-introduce-a-new-daily-mission-for-enriched-beryllium-in-open-space/](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/29895-introduce-a-new-daily-mission-for-enriched-beryllium-in-open-space/)

 

[http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/29482-special-operation-introduce-a-new-contract-contact/](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/29482-special-operation-introduce-a-new-contract-contact/)

 

 

Before you do anything, you should revert daily Open Space monocrystal reward from 2 to 3. However, this isn’t the most important, but it would be a proper move.

The most important thing is that you revert back the ore requirements.

I am fine, if they increase the value to craft neodium plate from 2 to 3 ores and  revert back beryllium to 3 pieces of ore.

Problem is that drop rate in Open Space is the same, so those numbers shouldn’t get changed in the first place, they should stay the same.

 

 

This concludes my discussion. You know what you should do.

156

…

 

I made my comment merely because of the Capture the Beacon mode. Too many players go in for the beryllium with only one or two ships.

 

I totally agree that material rewards should not be restricted to ships or synergy level.

157

 

I think a better way of implementing this would have been to spawn valuable mineral, mineral crystals inside the pvp. pve, coop match.

You would need collect this during the match and you get to keep what you collect if you stay alive or with whats in your cargohull when the match ends.

And revert back to old loot system.

 

 

you are not serious right. so people should - instead of playing the game right, which for many seems like rocket science - go search for items in pvp?

why is that so? because you feel entitled, that you “had to search the crappy rocks to find something others didn’t”?

This would really be horrible for matches, to keep loot in your pvp ships. It would be another deteration of what should be played.

 

This game was not built around an open world, where you level your character up, and need to bring your items home. It was built around arcade lobbies with rewards, and the open space was added on (possibly) popular requests or was somehow always part of the dream, who knows. It is a nice thing for anyone, that he can go and find materials in open space on their own, without the stress to win games. And even to those who invest lots of time in openspace, it of course feels like, they had to do all that work for nothing.

 

But that’s the point: then complain about the investment of time vs. its rewards. Not try to make suffer everybody else, what you cannot admit to hate yourself.

 

The community loved open space initially, because it was very much more lucrative for credit farm, had nice little “scenery spawns” like pirates being hunted by officers, and basicly added a bit of a feel of a world behind the game.

I still like it to test flying around, and the mere existence of undocking, because it helps to feel like the game has depth.

But until now, it was never more. Trying to make us actually play it by force, just because it currently has no goal by itself, and not enough diverse content, and last time i checked still horrible mass spawned aliens, was some of the problems many had with it. We wanted to be able not-to-play open space, because it is not really “essential” to enjoy the game, trying to pick up loot around asteroids. To have the option, to invest time directly into pvp, and have a chance of still getting rewards needed for progression.

 

I am not saying, Open Space could not be awesome if it gets more depth, but it should be accessed as if you design a whole new game with the same engine and population, instead of a school excursion site, you have to visit every day, like that particular Theme Park you have to visit every week for your beloved king Prog Resh Un. It kills its own soul doing that. It becomes an emulator of freedom of choice.

 

It really helps, if you try to abstract your whishes, and remove your personal needs, if you try to make a suggestion, so you try to make it in a form, which benefits everybody, small and old, pve or pvp.

just ask yourself: is it fun one time? is it fun every day? do I want to do that every time? why did i do it?

 

In fact in this regard the patch was an awesome step in the right direction, albeit a very very tiny one. Nobody really wanted to take 3 MCs away per day from OS, which was one topic here, but nobody really wants to pick up items everywhere in this game. and the picking up item mechanic is by no means modern, challenging or interesting. It’s actually quite a pita.

it would not hurt if some of those mechanics actually were more automated, since they dont add challenge, besides being finicky in their usage. in fact could even be more automated in the looting screen (like picking random ones if you skip or timer runs out, ensuring you never actually miss your loots, because why would you even do that?), not just in the open space pickup.

 

edit: post 2k. omg.

158

It looks pretty straightforward, it’s a money making exercise, designed to be that way or as an inevitable side effect.

Only using max syn ships means you need to transfer syn, that means using gs, so buying gs, equals money to SC.

The extremely low drop frequencies of the items means people are playing lots and lots in their max syn ships so will accumulate hundreds of thousands of ship based syn which unless transferred means it is wasted. That = a nice little earner.

The feedback on the difficulty of getting the resources people want looks like a deliberate plan to make the search harder.

It’s like the nerf of open space loot a year or so ago, items reduced to up to about 10% of their previous value. Why? well it looked like it was to reduce their ability to get credits in OS, so OS becomes less useful and with the addition of vast numbers of aliens with poor loot but high killing power especially for low rank ships looks like it was to put people off OS or encourage them, in some way to buy ships to do the job.

 

The worst thing for me though is the way that the game can be changed without any regard for the players that buy premium and gs and done at any time. Oh item x used to cost 100gs, well now its 1000, you used to get 6 goodies per day well now its 2, tough luck, we can do what we like. That is completely and utterly unacceptable. If they think that’s a way of encouraging people to buy premium they are potty. I can’t imagine people would stand this treatment in real life, this is the car you are leasing for $500 a month well we are going to swop the engine for one with half the power and take the air con and cruise control out, btw you now have to pay more to drive over 50kph as well. Oh yes well you can FO

 

The number of destroyers and higher ranked ships (r11 v <= r9) in pve is really unbalanced and offputting for those in low r ships.

 

Removal of corp bonuses is sneaky as well, you do have to log in every day to get them so you do have to be active. The fact that the corp puts a lot of time and resources into getting and holding sectors sectors should be rewarded. But no, what they have to do is jump through hoops to get the rewards, oh and spend money?

 

Yes they need to make money that’s fine but to do it in such ways looks rather poor, treat your paying and potential paying customers properly and you get their good will.

159

Co-op mode

 

and it’s not even April 1st yet

160

I don’t think they are looking for feedback, more likely if you say you are okay with something (especially material drops), its probably a sign for them to nerf it because it should not be okay, it should be difficult. Lets try with everything is perfect now and wait for them to implode. lol