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I’m sorry, i have to disagree with you. I reached R15 in all factions before all the special missions over christmas etc, and all I could afford was 1 SP ship, now players get handed about 3 of them for doing very little of the OS missions!! That is not on.
This is a real kick in the teeth from the devs.
What is the issue that new guy can evolve in a game faster and fight against you in high ranks? How is this new guy bothers you? He didn’t steal these rewards from you.
No he didn’t steal the rewards from us, you devs denied them to us. I have no problem with new players getting the rewards, but please give the rewards to us too!!! If you don’t like the idea of simply giving them to us, then there was a suggestion in the other thread of giving the players that already reach R15 to have a set of missions to obtain them.
Not for free.
Yes for free! Absolutely for free!
If I want a secret project ship I have to pay credits to buy Mk II modules to salvage for parts. That can run as high as a quarter mil per piece of Graphite / Osmium, if not higher. Then I have to “pay” by flying a game mode I don’t want to play.
New players get given these components, pre built, for leveling up ships. That’s getting it for free. I would xxxx love to be able to get Secret Project ships by flying PvP like new players can! I’d be over the xxxx moon! But no, being allowed to unlock things while having fun is something vets don’t deserve.
I already told my position, it’s common practice in many games to encourage new players. When you separately buy dlc’s in any game and after that some guy bought it at a lower price, you are also angry? When one popular online game proposed to newbies to reach maximum level per a couple of weeks, it was ok?
What is the issue that new guy can evolve in a game faster and fight against you in high ranks? How is this new guy bothers you? He didn’t steal these rewards from you.
And your position is wrong.
The examples you give are false because, in the first case, player A and player B get the same outcome. In the second case, when leveling is made easier, existing players also have it easier. The only people who miss out are the ones who hit cap and cannot level anymore.
In this case, only new players benefit. I still have two Destroyers (soon to be five) and eight Secret Project ships to build. But I can’t take advantage of the faster leveling to unlock them. New players can.
In other words, I still need and want that reward, but you are saying I can’t have it.
And, as I stated, the reward given to new players is more than what I currently have, and could reasonably get.
We are asking for fair treatment. You are telling us to xxxx ourselves.
Flux Phaser is BROKEN it can shoot invisible enemies and show their location,nothing can hide from it.
:fed014: :01414: :014j:
And no i will not make a bug report i’m not gona waste time on something so obvious.
It has been this way for a long time lot of people notice it and abuse it.
But you probably enjoyed the game all this time, why do you think that these years are wasted?
Because if I joined just now, I wouldn’t have to grind missions and loot every day in order to get what I want, you would just give it to me. I would have the same amount of fun cruising through the tiers, except when I got the next one up, I would get some nice valuable rewards too.
I feel like you value new players, who haven’t yet spent money on your game, over those players who have been here a long time and continue to spend money on your game.
But regarding enjoyment levels;
You changed the matchmaking system to match by rank rather than tier, which means that ships of different tiers and thus with different capabilities are matched against each other. You did try to address this by changing the module system but its not really good enough since the game was designed around the tier system.
You introduced the stacking penalty for passive modules which means I can no longer spam my Nodachi A.
Your massive dreadnoughts and open space patch of yesteryear did nothing for me, as I only play Skirmish.
Leagues don’t mean anything to me, because I only wanted to play with a couple of friends who introduced this game to me. They no longer play, so I just play this game’s original mode, which also unfortunately seems to be unrewarding when compared to all the bonuses gated off in other areas of the game.
I dont fancy PvE because even though you made it easier, enemies are still large pools of hitpoints and besides that, AIs are completely unrepresentative of the capabilities of the craft they are given because either the statistics have changed, or they’re just simplistic. At least I can let you off for that because that wont change until Skynet comes along.
All I really want is to feel like you’re giving people who have been here a long time and own your premium content, the same priority as you give to new starters.
Why is that so much to ask, or so difficult for you to understand?
Yes for free! Absolutely for free!
If I want a secret project ship I have to pay credits to buy Mk II modules to salvage for parts. That can run as high as a quarter mil per piece of Graphite / Osmium, if not higher. Then I have to “pay” by flying a game mode I don’t want to play.
New players get given these components, pre built, for leveling up ships. That’s getting it for free. I would xxxx love to be able to get Secret Project ships by flying PvP like new players can! I’d be over the xxxx moon! But no, being allowed to unlock things while having fun is something vets don’t deserve.
And your position is wrong.
The examples you give are false because, in the first case, player A and player B get the same outcome. In the second case, when leveling is made easier, existing players also have it easier. The only people who miss out are the ones who hit cap and cannot level anymore.
In this case, only new players benefit. I still have two Destroyers (soon to be five) and eight Secret Project ships to build. But I can’t take advantage of the faster leveling to unlock them. New players can.
In other words, I still need and want that reward, but you are saying I can’t have it.
And, as I stated, the reward given to new players is more than what I currently have, and could reasonably get.
We are asking for fair treatment. You are telling us to xxxx ourselves.
Can I get an amen!
Seeing the 1K+ monocrystal giveaway for a few weeks of playing hits me hard too. Although, I don’t know how long it takes to get to rank 15 now with the new ship purchase requirements so it might take longer than I think. I just hope tier, I mean, rank rushing is not promoted with this generous rewarding. I don’t mind what others get. I am only worried about the effects this might cause.
I understand that new players need extra support to get them involved in more and more game modes and this way, maybe, make them stay in the game for longer. When it comes to building manufacturable ships, to newbies it seemed too distant before so it is good that they also get a chance to build their own ship within a reasonable time. But this should not necessarily mean them being able to build these ships in higher ranks too.
The rank 8 manufacturable destroyer was a great idea. Giving extra resources for building one was also a good one especially if I think of the events that, unlike new players, vets could participate in. There was also that 5th day license day that does not exist now. But giving 3 ships worth resources only for ranking up? These players don’t even have to hesitate between buying a ship or building Mk.5 modules and weapons.
The solution is ‘simple’ I think. Give new players the current reward for ranking up until rank 8 or 9 so this way everyone could get a destroyer and maybe one other ship or some mk5 modules fast. After rank 9 simply reduce the reward or change it to something else. I could also see more low rank secret projects with lower resource needs.
As I see these rewards make players rush to higher ranks. On one hand it might seem to be a good idea because all the game modes fast become available and having these ships can give a long term goal. On the other hand, playing a few weeks and reaching the highest contents in game might be harmful. Without experience players lose all the time. Disappointment and decreased ego result in the opposite effect the game should.
The solution is ‘simple’ I think. Give new players the current reward for ranking up until rank 8 or 9 so this way everyone could get a destroyer and maybe one other ship or some mk5 modules fast. After rank 9 simply reduce the reward or change it to something else.
This seems very reasonable and balanced, i agree with you. Players can start farming what they couldnt at T4, reducing the gap from vets, without giving away everything just by leveling to R15.
I don’t mind the good rewards for new players, it will help to keep them in the game.
I also don’t want what they get just rewarded to me, because I’ve reached a high rank.
But what would be very much appreciated, would be free choice of where to farm resources. Atm I’m forced to play open space for about an hour a day for 9 Mono Crystals.
Why can’t you give players the option to farm them wherever they want? PVP, PVE or open space.
You could keep them capped at 9 a day for premium, but give three Monocrystals for the first three PVP or PVE wins a day.
I think it’s good, that you can farm building resources with Kits from PVE und PVP, especially in T5, but how about Monocrystals and destroyer resources? Why force players into the open world and out of the modes this game was built on?
even if some of the standpoints differ, like the achiever who is angry because all he achieved was less, than people after him have to do, or the pvp player who still insists, that even if we talk about funky rewards, it does not solve the late game issue, that the rewards are obviously broken, or the fairplay advocate, who feels that everybody should get the same treat, they are actually all saying the same.
the rewards young players get are in no relation, to how hard it is to gather the same stuff on your own; the impossibility, if you do not want to go open space or pve; or did not make a destro in t3 as a sidenote; so even if all stuff gets reinstated, which might be a compromise which would benefit all (as all the “work” in the past would again regain its value for the achiever, make the fairplay advocate happy), i think the party which should be listened to most carefully, are still those, who try to point out, pvp needs rewards, pvp needs love, pvp needs squads, pvp needs teamplay; pvp needs to be seen more seriously, as currently, since years, trying to avoid “making only pvpers and old players happy”, results in neglect and ignorance.
“yes but we should not too much” - “it’s not just pvp players out there you know”
we know that. we are your most hardcore and bending player minority.
sometimes you can also be too careful, and as jasan very well formulated, sometimes even in a relative and subjective world, you can be simply and objectively wrong.
What were/are the content/changes done with the last two micropatches??? No patchnotes, no desription, no explanation… Why those patches happened???
Dont wanna fight you, im just saying: you had a lot of time and resources to get what you have. Destroyers are the promotional ticket that has been increasing population…a fresh new player atracted by destroyers will take a lot of time to build one without these easy rewards. Besides, im pretty sure that when you had to level your ships and equip them there werent that many players with maxed ships (and maxed destroyers), unlike a new player would face now at T3. Ive seen in many games that rewards for new players gradually increase in order to make their entrance smoother vs veteran players. Besides, vet players need something to work on (like destroyers), otherwise end content runs out quick.
I really doubt a fresh new player will be smart, skilled, know exactly what to do and manage to do it properly (btw, asking around doesnt grant you the “right” answers always). Your data is only valid for a veteran player starting a new account. Simply go to T1-2 PVP/PVE and see how players do far from optimal. Before playing SC i used to play plenty of FPS games (doing great) along with “Ace Online”…i had a nice “career” to start playing SC, however i was no way near of getting all 3 factions to R15 (i had no premium but that wouldnt have changed things much), even that i learned many things quickly and start teaching others about game mechanics and stuff. What i try to say is: you may have a great preparation for a certain game, but without the specific experience of that game you will do far worse than a vet, cause every game has its own things that determinate whats the optimal (in one game it will be better to fly foward towards the enemy and orbit, in other it will be better to fire while going backwards). No offense niri, but your “hard experimental data” seems only a stat achieved by you, a vet, far from beginners actual performance.
Actually you are forgetting that I trained over 80 pilots. And yes - I had few extra accounts just to check what is new player experience. And yes - I was training a person in September that did it from R4-R15 in 9 days. And yes, I had a trainee that tier rushed in 15 days to get R15 in January. I know that most people are trying to fly blind, but there are always one or two that want to progress fast and are willing to listen. And before anyone will start to groan “you created a tier rusher that will die as soon as he spawns” - no. I got them to R15 for triple mono missions per day, for max income. That person from September has current FS of over 100, one destroyer and materials to build his first secret project ship. He plays mostly T3 as he has 7 T5 ships, but found that even he has the basics covered (more than 80% of population…) he is still not too comfortable in T5. And flying T4 needs some courage (because you can face anything from R8 to R15 there).
And unfortunately - those results couldn’t be achieved by me, as you can only have 3 accounts on one computer ;).
even if some of the standpoints differ, like the achiever who is angry because all he achieved was less, than people after him have to do, or the pvp player who still insists, that even if we talk about funky rewards, it does not solve the late game issue, that the rewards are obviously broken, or the fairplay advocate, who feels that everybody should get the same treat, they are actually all saying the same.
the rewards young players get are in no relation, to how hard it is to gather the same stuff on your own; the impossibility, if you do not want to go open space or pve; or did not make a destro in t3 as a sidenote; so even if all stuff gets reinstated, which might be a compromise which would benefit all (as all the “work” in the past would again regain its value for the achiever, make the fairplay advocate happy), i think the party which should be listened to most carefully, are still those, who try to point out, pvp needs rewards, pvp needs love, pvp needs squads, pvp needs teamplay; pvp needs to be seen more seriously, as currently, since years, trying to avoid “making only pvpers and old players happy”, results in neglect and ignorance.
“yes but we should not too much” - “it’s not just pvp players out there you know”
we know that. we are your most hardcore and bending player minority.
sometimes you can also be too careful, and as jasan very well formulated, sometimes even in a relative and subjective world, you can be simply and objectively wrong.
Sometimes I feel the meaning of what I say is lost when I type it, so I’m glad there’s somebody like you who can say what I feel more succinctly.
I agree with what has been discussed about materials given too easy for newcomers…compared with what we received when passed every tier in the past.
I guess, at least, in compensation, a _ third part _ of what a newcomer can achieve atm ranking ships, can be given to ppl who already reached R15 levels in all factions.
I play this game for almost 3 years and of course I couldn’t build a destroyer, neither a SP ship. A very good thing that newcomers in 2-4 months can build those so easy. :01414:
Actually you are forgetting that I trained over 80 pilots. And yes - I had few extra accounts just to check what is new player experience. And yes - I was training a person in September that did it from R4-R15 in 9 days. And yes, I had a trainee that tier rushed in 15 days to get R15 in January. I know that most people are trying to fly blind, but there are always one or two that want to progress fast and are willing to listen. And before anyone will start to groan “you created a tier rusher that will die as soon as he spawns” - no. I got them to R15 for triple mono missions per day, for max income. That person from September has current FS of over 100, one destroyer and materials to build his first secret project ship. He plays mostly T3 as he has 7 T5 ships, but found that even he has the basics covered (more than 80% of population…) he is still not too comfortable in T5. And flying T4 needs some courage (because you can face anything from R8 to R15 there).
And unfortunately - those results couldn’t be achieved by me, as you can only have 3 accounts on one computer ;).
can you still do that with new ship requirements to reach each rank? You can lvl ships really fast with prem license and help from other players (like doing speed runs in 3 mins), but that certainly doesnt happen for the mayority of new players…and i think that new players rewards should be intended for the average. I also think that rewards are high (specially at T4 and above), but thats no reason to [air quotes] “compensate” [air quotes] vet players.
It was more proof of concept - that it can be done. It doesn’t happen to majority of players. Majority of players sees the Star Conflict, log in, say hello, say “this is a beautiful game”, ask how to undock, get their xxxx kicked in T2 (sorry in R3-R6 - yes, under 10th battles they are facing veterans with T3 equipment), asking why are they always in the dumb team and leave the game. And to be honest Papi, I don’t give a damn anyomore. Even leagues which are meant to be exciting wear off quickly. From some point level you are facing same and same teams again. Builds are adjusted to be in specific point on the map at the specific second. Those “exploits” that were patched in the last league rule changes were probably caused by us when our corp decided that some of our pilots should help other teams to get enough players in the team to play at all, so they could attract those missing pilots.
I’m wondering when developers will see that they should care about their player base - new players and old players as well. There should be proper manual or wiki with enough proper content, those videos with Igromania are awesome, but very small amount of new players are watching them (maybe there should be a big banner “HELP” with in-game video player or something?). Those leveling rewards are just another hit in the face (I’m not saying that they are bad, they are actually very good and give incentive to level up - hint for devs - make an in-game table with those rewards. RPG-savvy people will LOVE you for this) of old players. Explanation that in other games situation is similar is just out of place. Should I quit this game and go to another one then?
Thank you. Discussion is closed. If you want to proceed discussion about rewards, please do it in the special thread.