Squad Rework

I like the idea of squads, and I doubt that people dislike them.  But instead of forcing MM to sort through squads pre-game, why not just remove them altogether in the hangar and put them in-battle.  When the game is in its pre-warp phase, squads can be created and have up to 4 pilots each.  If this happens, it makes sense to remove bots as well, since they cannot be in a squad and usually die by charging the enemy.

 

One major problem in this game is the lack of teamplay and coordination.  I believe that this would be a great way to revamp gameplay and squads.  Any thoughts?

 

EDIT: Why not just remove them [the squads] altogether in the hanger and put them in-battle.  Allow people to form squads in hangar, but do not restrict MM to need a squad on enemy team since they will (most likely) be formed after MM.

Removed by Author 

Squads are a way to guarantee that friends can play together. If they have to be formed in-match, how would you guarantee that the MM puts the people who want to play together in the same match, on the same side?

 

Good point.  Then have MM ignore such rules, since games will form squads after the match making.  I can understand putting good players on both sides, but it chews up so much MM time.

Such a system is good for battles that last 20 minutes and more, but to form a squad in a match that lasts only 10 minutes it won’t be really usefull. Forming a squad in battle won’t give you much more advantage then just being a team mate. Forming a squad before a battle is far more effective because you can set up communication and agree on who brings which ship.

Removed by Author 

usually, in many games, the lobby feature is strongly used for setting up games, and evenly distributing players. games with small but hardcore populations usually have their own community for this.

 

especially if u can pick teammembers of a pool and know the players, that all works pretty well.

 

however if the players come from anywhere, with different expectations, usually your only option is to search for community groups to play in. since there is no reward at all in the lobby games to prevent farming, not even some flat rate progression, and since this game is much about progression, and still tries to perfect its endgame content, and you need roughly a year to reach it in a decent level, squadding up is the logical thing to do. since the other squads however are of different strength, this is discouraged before you reach a certain “strength”. larger groups are not able to organize games, nor even organize proper squads, without building networks with multiple corporations included.

 

imho, MM should allow same-corp squads to face off, so bigger corps can face each other from time to time, especially if there is no other corp squadding. make organizing squads a bit easier. a corp with 8 players online therefore can play their favourite tier and both of their squads will be evenly distributed after a while.

also, at any given time, people should see tier populations, and that squads of different sizes are in the queue, so it isnt “lets try 10 minutes t4, then t5, then t3…”, since it means, you spend 30 minutes waiting in the worst case, and people start to get sick of that.

 

therefore i think squads are fine as they are, it’s more some historical artifacts in the rulesets, and missing transparency, that are making it bad, also it could need some options like proposing players for invitation, choosing another leader, etc.

it should be natural to squad up, but it isn’t, and the lack of improvement in the feature is imho a mistake.

also, many of the squad things are made in the mindset of “squads are naturally stronger”, which leads to only naturally stronger squads “facing the tide”. if you create mechanics under an assumption, you usually are right with the results, because you are influencing them.

 

it seems for a large player base squadding up isn’t even considered an option. soloing is still more rewarding, than having players of the same strength facing a total number of stronger players.

 

some online squad search would be something close to what you describe, which would also be a nice addition. but without more transparency, i don’t see the solution arising. but still, someday maybe you can click “find me a squad!” and you get into a random squad searching for players, and get into a game, or join the next solo game instead. things like that would be nice. if i get your ideas correctly.

 

atm. i hardly see squads which are unfamiliar, while the most squads come from established corporations and their hardcore players. i can remember different times.

I’d whish to see the day, where this changes more regularly, atm. however i am pretty glad about tournaments and seccon providing more for players who have a peer network, and it should grow in that direction, but it would not hurt to help players with teaming up, basicly what mentoring should try to achieve.

 

actually while writing this, i just thought to myself, why not make mentoring into this. after a squad played a game together, they might stay together, or wait for new members. mentoring could be way better done like this, than applying to players, and it would help the community to get to know each other.

which it desperately needs atm. since it should be about competition on the battlefield, and not in the lobby or the forums.

 

(or maybe you thought of it more like battlefield, where squads are an element of the gameplay, which is also a good idea, but may be different. but both improvements sound interesting, maybe the ingame squad thing would however need more game design changes)

 

out of game squads should however definitely stay, and the squad menu could need some sprints for improvement.

How about something like guns of icarus’s mm. your crew doesn’t have to fight another crew’s. 

How about something like guns of icarus’s mm. your crew doesn’t have to fight another crew’s.

Error already answered this. It is worth it when the matches are long, but ten minutes is too short to properly organise yourself. Also Guns of Icarus only has three roles, whereas Star Conflict has 9 or 10.

Another thing is GoI mostly has English-speaking players from what I remember. With our large Russian population, communication barriers cam become a real problem if squads are randomly assigned.

I think the way squads are formed is fine. The only thing that needs fixing is the squad matchmaking. A +1/-1 queueing system for squads would fix this problem.

No need to prevent pilots from squadding with their friends to guarantee they are on the same team.

  Well as shown below  4 man squad Group 1672913 on opposing side ( team 1)  and our side (team 2) had a 3 man group 1673421 and we each had a 2 man squad.  

 

client: ADD_PLAYER 0 (Zalet4ik [ADS], 000AF358) status 2 team 1 group 1672913
17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 1 (XofJSA [], 0000F79F) status 6 team 2 group 1673421
17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 2 (Subzero007 [ADS], 000B2FE4) status 2 team 1 group 1672913
17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 3 (xevilxGodlike [], 0006A1E2) status 2 team 2 group 1673421
17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 4 (Starius12 [ADS], 00167A3B) status 2 team 1 group 1672913
17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 5 (DarkRealmRequiem [], 001784B9) status 6 team 2 group 1673421
17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 6 (TERMIT94861 [ADS], 0006DCF9) status 4 team 1 group 1672913
17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 7 (davio, 00020D3D) status 2 team 2
17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 8 (Kerry121 [ultra], 0015AAF0) status 2 team 1 group 1673425
17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 9 (bitsbytes [NASA], 00081891) status 4 team 2 group 1673371
17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 10 (Wazzam [ultra], 0016CC3E) status 6 team 1 group 1673425
17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 11 (everrdylost [NASA], 00072E69) status 1 team 2 group 1673371
17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 12 (shadja, 0017EB0B) status 2 team 1
17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 13 (sivasligazi [], 00191A8D) status 2 team 2
17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 14 (RUSLAN7612 [ACbI], 000D563D) status 2 team 1
17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 15 (STIGMAT [], 00176847) status 2 team 2
17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 30 ((bot)Helen, 00000000) status 4 team 1
17:04:36.724         | client: ADD_PLAYER 31 ((bot)Emily, 00000000) status 4 team 2

  Well as shown below  4 man squad Group 1672913 on opposing side ( team 1)  and our side (team 2) had a 3 man group 1673421 and we each had a 2 man squad.  

 

client: ADD_PLAYER 0 (Zalet4ik [ADS], 000AF358) status 2 team 1 group 1672913

17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 1 (XofJSA [], 0000F79F) status 6 team 2 group 1673421

17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 2 (Subzero007 [ADS], 000B2FE4) status 2 team 1 group 1672913

17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 3 (xevilxGodlike [], 0006A1E2) status 2 team 2 group 1673421

17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 4 (Starius12 [ADS], 00167A3B) status 2 team 1 group 1672913

17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 5 (DarkRealmRequiem [], 001784B9) status 6 team 2 group 1673421

17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 6 (TERMIT94861 [ADS], 0006DCF9) status 4 team 1 group 1672913

17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 7 (davio, 00020D3D) status 2 team 2

17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 8 (Kerry121 [ultra], 0015AAF0) status 2 team 1 group 1673425

17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 9 (bitsbytes [NASA], 00081891) status 4 team 2 group 1673371

17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 10 (Wazzam [ultra], 0016CC3E) status 6 team 1 group 1673425

17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 11 (everrdylost [NASA], 00072E69) status 1 team 2 group 1673371

17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 12 (shadja, 0017EB0B) status 2 team 1

17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 13 (sivasligazi [], 00191A8D) status 2 team 2

17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 14 (RUSLAN7612 [ACbI], 000D563D) status 2 team 1

17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 15 (STIGMAT [], 00176847) status 2 team 2

17:04:36.723         | client: ADD_PLAYER 30 ((bot)Helen, 00000000) status 4 team 1

17:04:36.724         | client: ADD_PLAYER 31 ((bot)Emily, 00000000) status 4 team 2

 

Wait, so MM thought you were more than you were, or? I’m confused.

Wait, so MM thought you were more than you were, or? I’m confused.

 

Just showing that MM does place a 3 man squad against a 4 man squad.    I was just surprised…that it was doing it… 

 

For some reason I thought it had stopped.       

Such a system is good for battles that last 20 minutes and more, but to form a squad in a match that lasts only 10 minutes it won’t be really usefull. Forming a squad in battle won’t give you much more advantage then just being a team mate. Forming a squad before a battle is far more effective because you can set up communication and agree on who brings which ship.

This is really interesting and a sound argument. We should be able to form squads before battles. I agree with that, Error - Maybe even with 4 people? :slight_smile:

All squads stuff is better to keep in one place for now

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