So are Interceptors OP

 

I agree, tacklers are not so good in solo, but it’s basically a team-oriented ship, so I see no problem here. The gravy-beamer is fine, it doesn’t make so much damage, but combined with target painter and engine inhibitor they are pretty useful, especially against inties because they usually using adaptive shields.

But interceptors also not make any problems in solo, they also need support. So the problem always starts when some ships works together, not when interceptors coming…

 

Nerf YeahAlex. He is OP, not the interceptors. :stuck_out_tongue:

 

Tacklers CAN do well in solo, but not by tackling inties. The gravy-beamer requires lots of skills to use because you need pinpoint accuracy for a long duration to be effective; Inties don’t make it easy. 

 

The funny thing about tackling modules is that they are way more effective against Fighters and Frigates than against Interceptors; they have fewer means to escape the snare.

Maybe you should research the subject a bit; the guys who makes the Extra Credits are developpers, and have over 200 videos about all kind of game making aspects. It’s not silly to imballance the game on purpose so long as it promote change in gameplay. Like they said, if the game is too well ballanced, people come up with perfect strategies everyone must adopt to compete, making it not fun for a vast majority who have to learn the whole thing to start having any fun at all.

 

Part of the fun in games is to come up with new ideas or figuring new things out, it’s gone once a game stop evolving and players have already explored everything there is to find (with everything told in lenght in wikis and how-to videos)…

https://www.google.com.mt/search?q=Percect+imbalance&oq=Percect+imbalance&aqs=chrome…69i57j0l4.438j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=119&ie=UTF-8#q=Perfect+imbalance&spell=1

Sorry I don’t need more reseach. This is silly. And the examples was bad.

stone rock scissors is this perfect imba?

9398852-rock-paper-scissors-game.jpg

https://www.google.com.mt/search?q=Percect+imbalance&oq=Percect+imbalance&aqs=chrome…69i57j0l4.438j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=119&ie=UTF-8#q=Perfect+imbalance&spell=1

Sorry I don’t need more reseach. This is silly. And the examples was bad.

stone rock scissors is this perfect imba?

9398852-rock-paper-scissors-game.jpg

 

No it’s the PERFECT ballance. I think you don’t understand what they are talking about. Perfect imballance is when you let one element of the game be stronger on purpose, not when they all have an obvious counter that keep it in check from the start.

No it’s the PERFECT ballance. I think you don’t understand what they are talking about. Perfect imballance is when you let one element of the game be stronger on purpose, not when they all have an obvious counter that keep it in check from the start.

I totally understand the video.

Just because you add more element it will still stay perfectly balanced.

rockpaperscissors.jpg

 

All play hero rock, you play hero paper, then they find hero scissors. This was the example. And as you said it is still balance.

The good game is balanced.

It can be symmetrical or asymmetrical balanced. but they try to sell the asymmetrical balanced game as ‘perfect imbalance’…

Tacklers CAN do well in solo, but not by tackling inties. The gravy-beamer requires lots of skills to use because you need pinpoint accuracy for a long duration to be effective; Inties don’t make it easy. 

 

The funny thing about tackling modules is that they are way more effective against Fighters and Frigates than against Interceptors; they have fewer means to escape the snare.

 

The gravibeamer actually doesn’t require too much skill to use if you use it correctly. Tackling an interceptor at extreme range makes it hard to keep the beam on the ship, but if you tackle at fairly close range (within range of your Engine Suppressor), the gravibeamer becomes much more effective. Sneak up on the inty using invis and suddenly appear behind them, use engine suppressor and inhibitor beam as well as target painter and you will find they become extremely easy to hit with the gravibeamer, and that you do significant damage (use any missiles that aren’t slow-field missiles for even more damage). You also take advantage of the damage boost you receive when you decloak. Do this, and you will find the gravibeamer is easy to use on inties. 

Maybe you should research the subject a bit; the guys who makes the Extra Credits are developpers, and have over 200 videos about all kind of game making aspects. It’s not silly to imballance the game on purpose so long as it promote change in gameplay. Like they said, if the game is too well ballanced, people come up with perfect strategies everyone must adopt to compete, making it not fun for a vast majority who have to learn the whole thing to start having any fun at all.

 

Part of the fun in games is to come up with new ideas or figuring new things out, it’s gone once a game stop evolving and players have already explored everything there is to find (with everything told in lenght in wikis and how-to videos)…

This described meta game change happend many times in SC. The first big one was one year ago when there was one pilot who started using maneuverability instead of speed on a ceptor and the whole communtiy adapted.

And there was no “perfect imbalance”, just one player who was so good in it that the whole communtiy adapted until he wasnt OP anymore :slight_smile: During that time there was no artificial induced perfect imbalance. It was just players making the best of their playstyle. Im saying this because this is happening in SC constantly and since you only see the way until t3 i can tell you that there is much more going on and much more possibilitys and counters to explore. Every minute you waste blaming you should spend refining your fits and your knowlege.

I suppose it should be expected, that many here that are sticking up for inties are solid inty pilots that mostly only use inties when they are playing.

 

It should probably also be expected, that many of you argueing for inties are in the same Corperation and backing up your teammates arguements…

 

Of course you don’t want the ship that you play, and that you get lots of kills in with next to no deaths, to be nerfed in anyway, or the ship types you play against to be buffed in some small way,

as that would disadvantage you…

 

That is the complete opposite of some ship pilots who, whilst possibly in the minority, feel that they are being taken advantage of by the very ships you alway pilot…

 

Hell ! You OWL guys even play custom matches where you practice your piloting skills against each other and improve your gameplay.

 

It’s not hard to see who the elite inty pilots are in this thread, it’s just a shame that they are not open to change, how ever small that change required or suggested may be.

The gravibeamer actually doesn’t require too much skill to use if you use it correctly. Tackling an interceptor at extreme range makes it hard to keep the beam on the ship, but if you tackle at fairly close range (within range of your Engine Suppressor), the gravibeamer becomes much more effective. Sneak up on the inty using invis and suddenly appear behind them, use engine suppressor and inhibitor beam as well as target painter and you will find they become extremely easy to hit with the gravibeamer, and that you do significant damage (use any missiles that aren’t slow-field missiles for even more damage). You also take advantage of the damage boost you receive when you decloak. Do this, and you will find the gravibeamer is easy to use on inties. 

 

Yeah, and to counter a single tiny ship, Tacklers have to burn through most of their active modules and their special ability, leaving them extremely vulnerable to the interceptor’s wingmate.

 

Worse yet, they are one of the only classes that has a somewhat viable counter to interceptors. The guard pulsar + inhibitor field combo can work, but mainly for deterrence.

 

So essentially, an THIRD of the game’s ships (Interceptors) can only be countered by 2 ship classes (Guard and Tackler). Maybe. That’s not balance.

 

EDIT: That’s not even mentioning that these ‘counters’ can easily be disabled or avoided by the very class they are designed to counter and are very, very context specific.

Yeah, and to counter a single tiny ship, Tacklers have to burn through most of their active modules and their special ability, leaving them extremely vulnerable to the interceptor’s wingmate.

 

Worse yet, they are one of the only classes that has a somewhat viable counter to interceptors. The guard pulsar + inhibitor field combo can work, but mainly for deterrence.

 

So essentially, an THIRD of the game’s ships (Interceptors) can only be countered by 2 ship classes (Guard and Tackler). Maybe. That’s not balance.

 

EDIT: That’s not even mentioning that these ‘counters’ can easily be disabled or avoided by the very class they are designed to counter and are very, very context specific.

In my best sigurdr days I was able to shoot any kind of ceptor with it. These days I’m a bit out of practice, but I think that still works.

Disintegrator, Beam canon, (reverse thruster), Minelayer. Minelayer should works better since the covops plasma arc nerf and the pulse laser nerf.

With engineer you have torpedo against them.

I suppose it should be expected, that many here that are sticking up for inties are solid inty pilots that mostly only use inties when they are playing.

 

It should probably also be expected, that many of you argueing for inties are in the same Corperation and backing up your teammates arguements…

 

Of course you don’t want the ship that you play, and that you get lots of kills in with next to no deaths, to be nerfed in anyway, or the ship types you play against to be buffed in some small way,

as that would disadvantage you…

 

That is the complete opposite of some ship pilots who, whilst possibly in the minority, feel that they are being taken advantage of by the very ships you alway pilot…

 

Hell ! You OWL guys even play custom matches where you practice your piloting skills against each other and improve your gameplay.

 

It’s not hard to see who the elite inty pilots are in this thread, it’s just a shame that they are not open to change, how ever small that change required or suggested may be.

 

Im not only flying inties that is just the class that I invested the most practise in because it needs it to bee useful. I’ve flown as much styx as I have flown the kite. Come on you know that we are not fanatics xD.

 

The point is that you should fly the ship that your team composition requires. (eventho lately ive been not giving a xxxx in taking healers in t5 cuz nobody cares anyways)

 

Yeah, and to counter a single tiny ship, Tacklers have to burn through most of their active modules and their special ability, leaving them extremely vulnerable to the interceptor’s wingmate.

 

Worse yet, they are one of the only classes that has a somewhat viable counter to interceptors. The guard pulsar + inhibitor field combo can work, but mainly for deterrence.

 

So essentially, an THIRD of the game’s ships (Interceptors) can only be countered by 2 ship classes (Guard and Tackler). Maybe. That’s not balance.

 

EDIT: That’s not even mentioning that these ‘counters’ can easily be disabled or avoided by the very class they are designed to counter and are very, very context specific.

 

AIM! practise Ion Beams, than you can kill every ceptor with every kind of laser.

 

There are many other counters for example other interceptors. Or a well placed Ion Warhead. You know while the interceptor maneuvers like a crazy something he is also not really in a position to be offensive as he has to use all his brainpower to evade and find an exit route. You might not kill him but it is enough to deny him and render him useless for his team. Doesn’t do him any good if he is alive but his team is dying.

Yeah, and to counter a single tiny ship, Tacklers have to burn through most of their active modules and their special ability, leaving them extremely vulnerable to the interceptor’s wingmate.  E13 implant

 

Worse yet, they are one of the only classes that has a somewhat viable counter to interceptors. The guard pulsar + inhibitor field combo can work, but mainly for deterrence.  Bubble fighters work wonders as well. Or even ion gunships/commands from a distance.

 

So essentially, an THIRD of the game’s ships (Interceptors) can only be countered by 2 ship classes (Guard and Tackler). Maybe. That’s not balance.

 

EDIT: That’s not even mentioning that these ‘counters’ can easily be disabled or avoided by the very class they are designed to counter and are very, very context specific.

 

Wingman? What wingman? Apparently you haven’t played much T5, where the games are too small to have a wingman…

And if you are in T3 with large games, you should have a wingman in your tackler, who will keep other inties off your back or help you take down the inty you have tackled.

 

Besides, you shouldn’t fly into enemy territory to tackle an inty. Wait for them to come to your team, then tackle them. Even if they have a wingman, your team will should handle the wingman. 

Actually the main reason why we all write on this thread is not because we want to hold a “monopoly” it’s more because it pains to see complaints that we all had aswell when we were new to the game. Unfortunately the new kind of player nowadays seems to rather complain about imbalance than enhancing his skill. Because after all there are people that are ridiculously unkillable in a frigate with a ceptor, so if they can there has to be a way. Or?

AIM! practise Ion Beams, than you can kill every ceptor with every kind of laser.

 

Because that works so well on laggy Russian servers…

 

 

There is no counter to an Inty-ball except for your entire team to roll tacklers, or for everyone to have Lazor weapons and slowly focus fire them one at a time. And usually by that point, they have already captured the objective or bugged out/cloaked and are long gone while their teammate has begun to circle-strafe around you.

 

Even if you manage to get a slow moving Guard into position with a pulsar, chances are he will be double-plasma arc’d as soon as the inty-ball is aware of him.

Because that works so well on laggy Russian servers…

yes because it does. why do you think ESB is using so many Ion Beams…

yes because it does. why do you think ESB is using so many Ion Beams…

 

ESB is primarilly Russian.  :fed014:

 

I’m talking about those of us who were not blessed enough to be born in Ze Motherland.

ESB is primarilly Russian.  :fed014:

yes dude but also they have to fight on EU and USA ping sometimes. See Tournament.

The gravibeamer actually doesn’t require too much skill to use if you use it correctly. Tackling an interceptor at extreme range makes it hard to keep the beam on the ship, but if you tackle at fairly close range (within range of your Engine Suppressor), the gravibeamer becomes much more effective. Sneak up on the inty using invis and suddenly appear behind them, use engine suppressor and inhibitor beam as well as target painter and you will find they become extremely easy to hit with the gravibeamer, and that you do significant damage (use any missiles that aren’t slow-field missiles for even more damage). You also take advantage of the damage boost you receive when you decloak. Do this, and you will find the gravibeamer is easy to use on inties. 

 

But sneaking up does not mean, cloaking and going alone to the front, trying to pick an inty somewhere, and then suddenly die because that intie pilot dogfights you in his own weapon range.

 

Keeping a laser on a moving target is hard. True. But even if you use the gravi beamer mid range, because far away targets are still harder to hit (needs practice, practice, practice), you should go for long range on a ship like the katana or bear, simply because you also increase your optimal firing range, instead of other bonuses. Damage is second, tackling is first. You do not need to kill your stuff alone. You should try to be where others of your team can shoot your target. Be humble about assists, after all, showing up on the death scores is bad for you; people will come back for you.

 

So actually, your proposal is exactly, what I tried to countersuggest. I suggest to *not* start with sneak attacks, instead with long range attacks. You don’t want to be flanked. You want your cloak to be ready as defense if the enemy comes back at you.

You want your only drone you chose to be ready too, since it can help you losing spy drones by bumping against it if you put it out. Gravi beams work better if you strafe in all directions.

 

Using a 5-6km gravi beamer still makes 3-5km the best operating range. Annoy as many ceptors as you can. Sometimes the results are not immediate, but after a while, you can shift the momentum of a bad team to actually start playing together, simply by keeping the enemy busy, and telling them which rock to take.

 

You are maybe only strafing them with a bit of damage, but you make them start getting nervous, metabolizing adrenaline, which they could use much more, once they are close to you.

 

Until some of them come angry at you, while you cloak and move to your friends, until your killers arrive, ready for a counter attack.

 

(And thx your post you did while i wrote all this clarifies that further)

 

 

ESB is primarilly Russian.  :fed014:

 

I’m talking about those of us who were not blessed enough to be born in Ze Motherland.

 

What are you all talking about, ion beams are one of the best weapons for high ping.

 

The problem on ru servers is more packet loss and QoS, but that might not be gaijins fault at all…

 

Hell ! You OWL guys even play custom matches where you practice your piloting skills against each other and improve your gameplay.

 

It’s not hard to see who the elite inty pilots are in this thread, it’s just a shame that they are not open to change, how ever small that change required or suggested may be.

 

Come on Windswept. I am here, because I personally am always here. I do not agree with everything others from my corp say, just because they are in my corp. On the forums we have all one voice per player.

I love ceptors, but I fly a lot of other roles now. Because let’s face it, the Covert Ops is a killer machine, but it has it’s drawbacks. And sometimes the team needs something else, than a CO.

 

I think the reaction is rather so flambulant, because some people have a bias against interceptors, while not being interceptor pilots themselves, and bring it to every thread. Did you see them too? Or just the Ceptor pilots…? I think this bias against interceptors is not because of the ship, but because of the number of old pilots still exercising after years of play; and while they seem impossible to reach, there are some people who are actually not as old players and became quite deadly in it aswell.

 

We have talked a lot about possible nerfs, and problems in this thread. I agreed to some. But I do not see them connected to Ceptors per se, and to say, the CO is the problem, I can only laugh, yeah, because the CO seems always to be the problem.

It’s the Assassin class after all.

 

And yeah, I do fear for Ceptors to be nerfed by some voices while not taking into account the others. Because, I played a long time CO, where they were heavily underpowered. Where weapons did absolutely no damage at all, except the mighty shrapnel. Thats the time, where I actually learned that class most, or weapons which I use today. But it wasn’t really fun to play Guard Conflict; and we lost a lot of players in that era.

yes dude but also they have to fight on EU and USA ping sometimes. See Tournament.

Surprisingly, they have far less ping on those servers than the opposite.

Surprisingly, they have far less ping on those servers than the opposite.

I think that you have to take infrastructure into account; the internet isn’t always solid in itself :frowning:

some of them also play on 24fps machines however, while still being among top names. Some of them have one year in advance of playtime to all of us, are you really that surprised, they learned to manage high ping?

 

Also, some of their ceptor players actually USE ping to their advantage. And many aren’t even from Russia.

 

I only know a few individuals, and we sometimes communicated by emoticons, but I think any ESB can correct me.

 

Last year, there were also infrastructural problems in europe, and there still are. Currently both regions can have packet loss for me at least, while I do live in EU.

And for some of these problems I know, it’s not my personal internet.

 

bottom line, we can’t make gaijin improve the connection to russia itself :smiley: that’s a bit expensive for them I guess.

 

Sorry, not wanting to play down the true thing which also bothers me: make servers better. Also, I think, most players would rather want EU games if it comes to ru-eu-us mixed fights. But I am saying that rather silently, since I am EU, so clearly biased.

I mean, they only have insane mobility both in fights and across the map, a cap speed bonus, a explosive resistance, the smallest hitboxes, all of them can escape locks and lock-on debuffs (can’t tackle them), have great hull regen with a single regen coating, cov ops has the best spike damage, ecm has stuns.

And the downside? A small HP pool, I guess?

Actually testing without the explosive&crit buff, replaced for the strait hull buff. Actually, very good.

 

They are pretty much dead with a tackler and/or a guard around.

Except that there is an implant that allows the use of any general module to stop engine inhibiting effects. So, nope to your statement.

 

players are OP not ships

Yep, epecially when you build to an idea and fling habit.

 

Currently CovOp is the easiest and most reliable (on average) tool to win a game in T5, just supplement it with anti frig ball gunship and you’re set.

  • insane agility, dodging next to every projectile based weapons in 1000+ range

  • Extremely short cool down on orion (with E13 it gets xxxx)

  • Ability to easily deal with tackler “disables”, more and more covops adopting 2x multipurpose modules, so 10 seconds immune to slow, and one of these multipurpose modules is Shield Booster that has short CD as Orion +E13 you almost don’t have down time with in slow immunity

  • Emergency barrier, the module that allows Inties to #Yolo into multiple enemies and get out alive, resets by E13. Imho Emergency barrier one of the biggest things that takes away a “skill” in flying interceptor- you make a mistake - you should die, not just “lol, nothing but a scratch”

I don’t think CovOps are extremely OP though, but they require fine tuning, currently they are on OP side of the balance.

Got a chance to find out EB is kinda nuts with shield & hull boost modules. Wow, having EB trigger on missles only is just wrong.

 

Aside from that, interceptors are on game balance with everything else. LRF get about 200% damage bonus over them. Engineers negate mass damage and with a good squad never die. So on so forth.

 

About ECM, they can’t do much of anything if the other team is grouped. Can turn off heals…