Sniper Weapons

Suggestions Balance
#1

I am looking at the ways the sniper weapons work, to create a concept that will make them more unique from other weapon types, something much closer to sniper-weapons you would experience in an RTS, it is my understanding this was one of the original design concepts the devs were trying for, however were unable to reproduce properly because of the game change differences (from RTS to Space sim).

 

 

Here are the conditions

 

 

  • Weapons cannot shoot more then 1 time every 4-6 seconds.

  • Weapons cannot kill in less then 5 hits (half the time of others)

 

I am only looking for more idea’s to perfect my current design concept, thanks for the help!

 

Edit: pools

#2

interessting concept…

 

why not change the entire long range logic: many players complain about the lack of defensive options for frigates…the frigates are meant for long range support both offensive and defensive

 

you suggested something like aoe damage → change the laser and the railgun snipers to something flak like…the hail is fine in my opinion ok as it is right now

 

result: longrange flak weapons allowing frigates to stay out of the hottest cqc but also support their team mates…

 

however there shouldn’t be an option to push the weapon’s range beyond a certain limit - i do accept snipers but not campers…

#3

I don’ know why people are on this whole frigates are only sniper idea. This is a sort of thing that really needs to be nipped in the backside.

Frigates need a better chance to be closer range or mid range. I just like the idea of sniper frigates, and feel just out right need some sort of

new mechanic.

 

I feel a charged based concept would be excellent for this, and an auto-charge up feature (as opposed to charge down that current plasma has) Would feel much better, so i am leaning toward creating a concept around this.

#4

Sniper frigates are great - on the enemy team! Nothing more useful then a bunch of sniping frigs in beacon. They do nothing for their team, the sniping ability is easy to dodge and most of the time they don´t even see you coming.

 

Anyway, i don´t feel the snipe should be changed in any way since it can not only be used to bother enemies trying to cap a beacon but also to engage in battle, get to the beacon yourself as frig and chase the enemies that fly away. Sure, you fly, i have 10.000 range, no escaping me!

Never felt that frigs shouldn´t be in the middle of the battle, they actually feel pretty good there with a decent team! Giving them more possibilities to be more versalite will just make people all go frigs and - guess what - camp nevertheless!

#5

View here for the changes to abilities.

http://forum.gaijinent.com/index.php?/topic/17514-special-abilities/#entry179848

 

As for sniping weapons, i think the long range weapons specifically need some sort of new effect.

 

I like the idea of the charge-up feature, that is a charge builds over time, when you choose not to fire (instead of holding the LMB down to charge up plasma). The longer you dont fire, the stronger the charge. I think the concept will work will with the sniping, If a secondary effect is added to the sniper weapons, That gives them the viability of being more attractive for sniping but at the same time does not 1-2 shot people. The idea i had behind this is to add a secondary effect, which would be one of the following

 

  • Part of the damage is done after the initial impact

  • Part of the damage becomes aoe

  • A secondary effect is added (Like Rail guns having explosive rounds and doing aoe damage to all targets in 1k).

  • A CC mechanic added (like when you hit a sheildless player with plasma, their engine speed is reduced by 10%  (stacking up to 3 times) Lasting 8-12 seconds)

#6

I dont get your point here eiter. You complaned about the charge mechanik so many times in most weapon balance suggestions i heard from you, and now you whant it in again? Well have fun get 1 shotted. :wink:

 

I assume the current damage on a T2 Frigate without any dmg bonuses except yours.

 

T2mk3 Hail does 186 dmg per shot

Lvl 3 Charge does 3x the damage

Frig has 6 Turrets

 

Total dmg on hit Lvl 3 Charge: 3348 dmg

 

Now lets give it a 600%-800% Boost of the base dmg.

 

168*6*6= 6048dmg

168*8*6= 8064dmg

 

Its enough to 1 shot a Inter without any res. Uhm, you said you got 1 shotted bevore this change? Now lets play with that one.

 

 

 

Stab rails will be a nuke launcher with 1k aoe. Nuke has 1k explosion range. But with way less dps power. The only thing i can imagine is a small aoe with proximal detonation for a part of the dmg. Other things will break the game more than it will fit in.

 

CC abiltys may be interressting but it should stay decent. Since we already have strong disables and debuffs that are able to stack up. 3 Seconds disable will lead to perma disable on hit. Most weapons have a rof of more than 45 shots per min. 45 means 1 shot each 1.3 seconds. 60/45 = 1.3s for the stab. Hail is best now with 1 shot each ~0.91s.

#7

I dont get your point here eiter. You complaned about the charge mechanik so many times in most weapon balance suggestions i heard from you, and now you whant it in again? Well have fun get 1 shotted. :wink:

 

Keep your corp/allied corp drama off the forums, its not professional. if you want to sit around and foul talk in corp chat on ts, that’s up to you. but don’t bring it here (where i am actually working hard to better the game)

 

I assume the current damage on a T2 Frigate without any dmg bonuses except yours.

 

T2mk3 Hail does 186 dmg per shot

Lvl 3 Charge does 3x the damage

Frig has 6 Turrets

 

Total dmg on hit Lvl 3 Charge: 3348 dmg

 

Now lets give it a 600%-800% Boost of the base dmg.

 

168*6*6= 6048dmg

168*8*6= 8064dmg

 

Its enough to 1 shot a Inter without any res. Uhm, you said you got 1 shotted bevore this change? Now lets play with that one.

 

Who said anything about weapon damage of a tier 2? Or even of them staying as is?

 

Stab rails will be a nuke launcher with 1k aoe. Nuke has 1k explosion range. But with way less dps power. The only thing i can imagine is a small aoe with proximal detonation for a part of the dmg. Other things will break the game more than it will fit in.

 

CC abiltys may be interressting but it should stay decent. Since we already have strong disables and debuffs that are able to stack up. 3 Seconds disable will lead to perma disable on hit. Most weapons have a rof of more than 45 shots per min. 45 means 1 shot each 1.3 seconds. 60/45 = 1.3s for the stab. Hail is best now with 1 shot each ~0.91s.

 

As error and i agreed upon last night, My conceptual designs are excellent, but i am new to the whole math part, Also these numbers (As he recommended) Was just conception numbers that can be balanced later, But the idea is to build up to a large amount of damage that meets the following conditions.

 

  • Does not kill in less then 5 shots
  • Does not encourage mass sniping
  • Does not destroy dog fighting

 

The point of the replay was try to undo some of the damage you/error did by not listening to some of the things i said.

 

the end result is that we need to look at ways to help sniping become fun, but not over-powered. This was only an attempt at that.

#8

the end result is that we need to look at ways to help sniping become fun, but not over-powered. This was only an attempt at that.

But the suggestions your making, are making them even more overpowered. O yea depends if sniping, or just long range lasers.  At least increase cooldown, that will help.

#9

In concept, i would like to see that the 5-6 second shot will give some sort of encouragement to wait that duration/frequency. A good idea for this is to include the secondary effects in the charge duration, and make them grow in power For example

 

Rail guns have 6 second charge to max power

 

 

1 second - 250 splash

2 second - 500 splash

3 second - 750 spalsh

4 second - 1000 splash

5 second - 1000 splash 5% Dmg bonus

6 second - 1000 splash 10% Dmg bonus

 

you would want the damage on a hit to do around 800-900 (as it hits the target) and around 300-400 AOE damage

 

another example would be Empire laser

 

 

1 second - 150 DPS

2 second - 200 DPS

3 second - 350 DPS

4 second - 400 DPS - 25% of damage done inflicted over the next 5 sec

5 second - 500 DPS - 35% of damage done inflicted over the next 5 sec

6 second - 600 DPS - 45% of damage done inflicted over the next 5 sec

#10

You should also consider limiting sniping to only frigates (dun know what the slow moving ships are called again)… so u don’t get those type of snipers that become impossible to get in range because they can just fly away or use ability to get away.

 

Or

 

They could add long range missile groups which can easily avoided if u know how to use cover or notice it. This is just a minor thought though.

#11

what is happening is the sniping itself is gradually ceasing to exist. i think over time if it stays as it, it will be erased from the game

 

this is why i am addressing changes to it, to see what we can do to make it viable, unique and lasting.