Shipbalance and broken endgame...

Ships
1

 

Engineer frigates - Utterly and completely useless and has no job whatsoever in endgame pve OR pvp.

These ships are broken to the point of where they can’t fill the role they are designed for,  teamsupport, Shielding and repairing ships.

Some of the best mods for frigates gives a regenertation of 70hps/sps, and considering how much damage is flying around in rank11+ both in pve and pvp,

Reparing a ship by 70 Hull per second when the ship has 20k hull and getting shot at, is like trying to put out a housefire with a spoon of water…

And in R11 pve, they are even more useless. No matter what some players might say, there is no “teamplay” in the game that will make

an engineer frigate save a friendly ship from utter annihilation.

I was flying my Trex-Mk2 a few days ago in a R11 coop match and ONE AI Tackler took my Guard-tank down in 3 seconds flat…

No engineer-frigate will ever be able to repair that.

 

Engineer frigates needs a serious overhaul and buff to make them a VIABLE team-support.

Even the most basic startingship will EASILY outdps the repair of any highrank frigate…

I was flying my R12 Trex Engineer frigate today and tried saving a destroyer. A flew up to him when he was taking fire

and dropped my repairstation and i popped my AoE repair, and the destroyer still dropped like a rock…

That’s how utterly broken engineer frigates are in endgame.  Their  AoE  hull and shield repairs are totally void.

 

And destroyers are in their own chapter when it comes to needing a buff and redesign.  We have SHIELDTANK destroyers with HULL BONUS on them.

And a pathetic regen of 400/s on a ship that can have nearly 200k Hull or 100K shielding.

When you have those amounts of hull/shield and you are regening 400… a simple startingship will break your regen and kill you.

Today during a PvE mission in my Archon with 80k Shields, i had ONE enemy scout fly around me and took my shields down to 20% from 100%… solo… 

a basic small ship like that shouldn’t be able to touch a destroyer solo, you should require a swarm of small ships to kill a destroyer,  or alteast 2-3 good frigates.

NOT a simple tackler, scout or recon.

 

There really isn’t and point to destroyers if they can easily be soloed by the smallest ship. They need to have either a regen high enough to shrug off smaller craft,

or a repair-mechanic able to easily keep up smaller amounts of damage being done to them.

And the fact that today i had my destroyer utterly annihilated in roughly 4 seconds by 2 Butchers…

that is nonsense - broken gamebalance when a destroyer can be killed that fast by non-destroyers.

Even 2 destroyers can’t kill another destroyer that fast.

 

Considering how much effort goes into getting them…  there are way too many things in this game that does bonus damage to destroyers

  • to the point of where it’s more productive flying an agile maxed frigate instead.

I know some people has spent 6-12 months building their R14 destroyers…  only to have them ripped apart almost instantly in pve .

that needs sorting out.

 

Stop punishing players that puts time and effort into the game to get better ships. If a player spends xxx hours in the game to get better stuff,

they should be rewarded with ships and items that enables godmode or at the very least let them handle harder content with less risk.

There’s no point having endgame ships if they die instantly in pve… no matter what you do.

ANY destroyer that can instantly die in pve is just wrong, no matter how you reason it.

 

2

1 hour ago, Progenitor2 said:

 

Engineer frigates - Utterly and completely useless and has no job whatsoever in endgame pve OR pvp.

These ships are broken to the point of where they can’t fill the role they are designed for,  teamsupport, Shielding and repairing ships.

Some of the best mods for frigates gives a regenertation of 70hps/sps,

 

6

 

And you lost me…

 

Here is an advise, go read the description of the Hull and Shield auras, they have a PASSIVE and ACTIVE modes. Think about it and maybe review your whole point of view about engineers.

 

 

 

 

3

Or just watch the many videos of xlMaXlx where he flies in squad and one of them having an engi…

4

Engineers are vital for some PvE missions  ![:fed014:](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/fed014.png “:fed014:”)

Running stage 2 of Pirate Base or Ellydium raid without an engineer is stupidly hard compared to when you do have someone to heal the cargo ship. Other than that as an engineer in PvE you’ll be the backbone of some of the dumbest team mates you’ll ever find since somehow PvE still harbours some stupid players in there.

5

2 hours ago, Progenitor2 said:

 

Spoiler

 

Engineer frigates - Utterly and completely useless and has no job whatsoever in endgame pve OR pvp.

These ships are broken to the point of where they can’t fill the role they are designed for,  teamsupport, Shielding and repairing ships.

Some of the best mods for frigates gives a regenertation of 70hps/sps, and considering how much damage is flying around in rank11+ both in pve and pvp,

Reparing a ship by 70 Hull per second when the ship has 20k hull and getting shot at, is like trying to put out a housefire with a spoon of water…

And in R11 pve, they are even more useless. No matter what some players might say, there is no “teamplay” in the game that will make

an engineer frigate save a friendly ship from utter annihilation.

I was flying my Trex-Mk2 a few days ago in a R11 coop match and ONE AI Tackler took my Guard-tank down in 3 seconds flat…

No engineer-frigate will ever be able to repair that.

 

Engineer frigates needs a serious overhaul and buff to make them a VIABLE team-support.

Even the most basic startingship will EASILY outdps the repair of any highrank frigate…

I was flying my R12 Trex Engineer frigate today and tried saving a destroyer. A flew up to him when he was taking fire

and dropped my repairstation and i popped my AoE repair, and the destroyer still dropped like a rock…

That’s how utterly broken engineer frigates are in endgame.  Their  AoE  hull and shield repairs are totally void.

 

And destroyers are in their own chapter when it comes to needing a buff and redesign.  We have SHIELDTANK destroyers with HULL BONUS on them.

And a pathetic regen of 400/s on a ship that can have nearly 200k Hull or 100K shielding.

When you have those amounts of hull/shield and you are regening 400… a simple startingship will break your regen and kill you.

Today during a PvE mission in my Archon with 80k Shields, i had ONE enemy scout fly around me and took my shields down to 20% from 100%… solo… 

a basic small ship like that shouldn’t be able to touch a destroyer solo, you should require a swarm of small ships to kill a destroyer,  or alteast 2-3 good frigates.

NOT a simple tackler, scout or recon.

 

There really isn’t and point to destroyers if they can easily be soloed by the smallest ship. They need to have either a regen high enough to shrug off smaller craft,

or a repair-mechanic able to easily keep up smaller amounts of damage being done to them.

And the fact that today i had my destroyer utterly annihilated in roughly 4 seconds by 2 Butchers…

that is nonsense - broken gamebalance when a destroyer can be killed that fast by non-destroyers.

Even 2 destroyers can’t kill another destroyer that fast.

 

Considering how much effort goes into getting them…  there are way too many things in this game that does bonus damage to destroyers

  • to the point of where it’s more productive flying an agile maxed frigate instead.

I know some people has spent 6-12 months building their R14 destroyers…  only to have them ripped apart almost instantly in pve .

that needs sorting out.

 

Stop punishing players that puts time and effort into the game to get better ships. If a player spends xxx hours in the game to get better stuff,

they should be rewarded with ships and items that enables godmode or at the very least let them handle harder content with less risk.

There’s no point having endgame ships if they die instantly in pve… no matter what you do.

ANY destroyer that can instantly die in pve is just wrong, no matter how you reason it.

 

 

 

With all due respect, but that just doesn’t make sense.

Let’s start with an engie:

My T-Rex is healing 9k hull + 9k shields every 29 seconds + your mentioned passives of 60 it gives an everage of 360 hull + shields per second. Station is repairing another 300 hp/s - but only for one target. Eclipse - 350hp/shot at 2.5 shots/second - that’s another 875HP/s. So in hull healing configuration we are talking about 1535HP/s for hull and 360 HP/s for shields, for shield healing configuration swap stations and that’s 1235HP hull + 660HP shields per second (+drones).

 

Guard frigate in coop is practically immortal, unless you did something really bad. Show me your build. 

Worst case scenario: R11 fed guard, white modules, 300+ ping:

Spoiler

 

 

Mid case scenario: R10 Jericho frigate, full purple:

Spoiler

 

 

Best case scenario: R12 Jericho Guard vs R15 Ellydium ships (a little old video, I changed mortar for positron since then, but is shows survivability):

Spoiler

 

 

 

Destroyers in PvE… In Hard mode (R11-R15) positioning is the key, but on the other hand I took the Brave to Fire Support and put it on purpose under fire (and IMHO Brave is the worst dessie ever). Here is the video before it had added another slot in the last patch:

Spoiler

 

 

Tyrant is healing thousands of HP/s when attacked by swarms, and Archon? you can get 80k+ shields ONLY if you went volume tank. Put one shield splitter + thermal, kinetic/EM - depending on mission + multiphase shield, Jericho energy router. We are talking 700HP shields constant regen + over 70k shields, 109+ resists. I’m flying with repair drones and for PvE it’s really sufficient. Don’t forget about 84k+ hull with some resists as well - it’s still bigger in volume than shield. So we are talking 700hp/s shields + 370HP/s hull regen. You will not die in Fire Support unless you will go small ship route and fly through the canyon. 

And I fully agree that any destroyer that dies in PvE in 4 seconds is wrong. Share your builds and we’ll see if the problem is build or tactics.

6

Before we naysay too much, lets do admit, in R15 engies are pretty niched, while the WazGot can’t be the answer to the balance either

Mostly the Fed engies did suffer a lot from adaptive nerf and they were actually pretty legit to be played with turn keys.

The fast and huge alphas you get ingame in pvp at least kinda makes it pretty meh, that the Minotaur isn’t R12, or at least fitting R15 doesnt allow R11.

There is the Brokk for a dedicated healing machine. But without teamplay, no squads in pvp, a completely dedicated ship to one task is kinda boring; I rather go play Overwatch if i want that.

 

I am not sure if the special modules overhaul will help engies much…

 

3 hours ago, Progenitor2 said:

Considering how much effort goes into getting them… 

I do not consider anyhow, how much time goes into getting them. No amount of farm and money spent legitimates unbalanced ships. If the only ability they could come up with is making them excel in everything, then it’s just p2w. In the end, it should not matter, whether you sit in a standard ship, a golden ship, a blue ship or a purple ship, it’s a ship. Maybe the others have combinations of fittings you can’t use. But all in all, a command should be a command, a healer a healer.

Only in games like Eve, amount of time going into a ship is legitimate for strength: because you can lose it. Your stakes go higher.

But when it comes to an arena shooter game, I expect real endgame balance.

In a way, that’s why competitive players respect f2p titles like Mwo, or battlefield, to be pvp endgame, but not SC.

 

I think the same about weapons. In the end, having one weapon being crap but affordable does not work well if the choice in the end is the OP one shot gun anyway. That only works in games where its either only about PvE, or you can lose the gun through a fight, or its a temporary in-battle pickup, or there is some sort of economy minigame (like Counterstrike or Dotas)

 

Destros are very strong. At least the major two, Tyrant and Vigi, are. Played well, they can basicly turn a game into a one sided match. While I do agree, they could get more tank on demand, it should come at the price of their offensive capabilities. In fact, taking R8 destro into R15 achieves exactly that, I can fly a supertanky brick. Unfortunately at the moment thats not possible.

 

7

What you veteran players are missing is that he is new  to the game … he worked hard to get what he thought would be a good ship and the BROKEN PVE in this game killed him way too fast . an engineer can be the back bone  but to be the back bone  you need  a REAL team and that only happens with a few matches . the problem with all of the PVE / PVP / CO-OP is that its based on team play and there is no team play in this game . give the guy a break and post screen shots of  the implants and ship build that will help him win more . screenshot-171227-082155.jpg.8289d5977c7617c0748b4cf2522871cb.jpgscreenshot-171227-082323.jpg.7e726badad3a242e865a5d8abc4d0476.jpg

your job is to heal … over 2800 shield and 1500 hull (5754 energy) 384 for stations and 83 passive shield (pirate) and 61 passive  hull … your drones assist for more cool downs and your main weapon has high speed and high rate of fire to hit any ship class your team has … try this set up and see if it works for you …

8

The general lack of knowledge mixed with frustration of being unable to do something thats often very simple and presented to the public in a rather flame-ish way leads to topics like this…

 

If you want to skip commenting to this topic and go to a simple crash course of engies, hit me up in the game and ill show you all that you have been missing out on that role so far.

9

^This

We need more community made tutorials imho

10

True it needs lot of skills and experience to be a good gaining offensive player in small agile light fighters or interceptors. But always the more offensive kills count in gaining rewards and credits after battle.

The  dedicated healing support role is not much attractive for it is gaining not much after battle points than the long range last shot farmers or the more agile and offensive builds - besides exceptions and notwithstanding the lack of teamplay atm.

Therefor frigate:enginer pilots will tend to build their ship to a mixed offensive-healer role to get more points through fire support and heal here and there. Paraphrasing xlMaXlx ‘the best healer is one who kills the enemy before he can hurt the own team’.

11

 

21 hours ago, Progenitor2 said:

I was flying my Trex-Mk2 a few days ago in a R11 coop match and ONE AI Tackler took my Guard-tank down in 3 seconds flat…

Sounds like an extremely poor guard build. Not even a ion spark with overdrive can take down a half decent guard in 3 seconds…let alone a tackler bot

 

Quote

If a player spends xxx hours in the game to get better stuff,

they should be rewarded with ships and items that enables godmode

yeah, no. that’s not how it should work. not ever

skill and game knowledge should always triumph any amount of grinding

12

1 hour ago, _terrorblade said:

 

yeah, no. that’s not how it should work. not ever

skill and game knowledge should always triumph any amount of grinding

 Especially since a large portion of the player base currently are vets who have an incomprehensible amount resources. I don’t want to fight a vet who has all the strategies down pat plus a ship with strafe speed over 9000 and insta-gib.

13

20 hours ago, Original_Taz said:

What you veteran players are missing is that he is new  to the game …

we all had to bite the bitter pill and work hard to get up, vets were not born in rank 15.

actually, unlocking standard ships, getting rewards, etc. has been improved a lot over the years. reaching r15 took a loooong time.

 

if he talks about endgame, he can’t be that new, tho can he ![:)](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/001j.png “:)”)

 

14

Endgame?

We are getting a new one after turn of the year: I only say Rank 16-17 (18)

I am not sure what the “Endgame” in Star Conflict actually really was?

Top level game modes like: T5 Defiler/Destroyer spec ops, T5 PvP, T5 Sector Conquest, T5 still feel mostly a lot like farming modes for progression. Leaving SC Leagues, corporations, and … the constant shifting frontier towards the next season’s ‘endgame’ meta and stuff. The question is : in a progression based game can there be an endgame? Star Conflict is interesting again, but is adding stuff constantly, diversifying, and branching out, so it will be harder to maintain and care for the code, servers and bugs (by less number of developers). Basic approaches of Consolidation of the game are absent so far.

15

Endgame in PvE is basically where you face the highest rank AI.  And if Engineer frigates still can’t keep their team alive

because of the massive damageoutput by the AI combined with their 100% accuracy, then you have a shipdesign that is not a valid option for a team.

Yes i’m not a new player since i registered my account and started playing 2013, but i took a long break and just recently returned…

so there has most likely been alot of changes to the game that i’m not aware of yet. I might not even know the full impact of Synergy of ships,

but just this morning i flew in a Rank6 team in PvE-mode with 2 Engineers and our team got annihilated because despite 2 healing frigates,

we couldn’t keep up with the damage done.

My Alligator Mk2 was setup with both AoE hull &shield reps, self rep & shield, with shieldextender, hullextender… etc etc.  But in PvE where the AI

completely swarms their targets, Engineers repairs simply can’t make up for the damage done.  Maybe my setup WAS wrong or my shipsynergy was low ( 5/7),

but with 2 Engieer frigates, we still dropped before we even reached half the mission.

 

Is there any comprehensive guide to Engineer frigates to read ?, i would like to actually learn and fly a full support frigate for teams.

 

16

3 minutes ago, Progenitor2 said:

Endgame in PvE is basically where you face the highest rank AI.  And if Engineer frigates still can’t keep their team alive

because of the massive damageoutput by the AI combined with their 100% accuracy, then you have a shipdesign that is not a valid option for a team.

Yes i’m not a new player since i registered my account and started playing 2013, but i took a long break and just recently returned…

so there has most likely been alot of changes to the game that i’m not aware of yet. I might not even know the full impact of Synergy of ships,

but just this morning i flew in a Rank6 team in PvE-mode with 2 Engineers and our team got annihilated because despite 2 healing frigates,

we couldn’t keep up with the damage done.

My Alligator Mk2 was setup with both AoE hull &shield reps, self rep & shield, with shieldextender, hullextender… etc etc.  But in PvE where the AI

completely swarms their targets, Engineers repairs simply can’t make up for the damage done.  Maybe my setup WAS wrong or my shipsynergy was low ( 5/7),

but with 2 Engieer frigates, we still dropped before we even reached half the mission.

 

Is there any comprehensive guide to Engineer frigates to read ?, i would like to actually learn and fly a full support frigate for teams.

 

Message this guy [@ORCA1911](< base_url >/index.php?/profile/254263-orca1911/), He has bunch of beginners guides and always willing to help new players eager to learn

17

On 28.12.2017 at 4:28 PM, Progenitor2 said:

…

My Alligator Mk2 was setup with both AoE hull &shield reps, self rep & shield, with shieldextender, hullextender… etc etc.

…

i would like to actually learn and fly a full support frigate for teams.

 

I think there is help for you. The settings of the crew implants and your selection of passive and/or active modules can be optimized.

If you see me in the game please chat to me [@avarshina](< base_url >/index.php?/profile/257814-avarshina/) I might help you and show you that r6 pve in an engi isdoable ![:)](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/001j.png “:)”)

What is your in-game nick name btw?

 

I did a couple battles on a rank 7 engineer in PvE. I also took my Alligator Mk2. It is a really good engineer ship. Has good engine slots, 1 capacitor slot, good shield and hull slots and even a CPU slot for modifying the different types of weapons.

A more defensive setup would be to switch the missiles with the mine layer.

 

This is my setup:

 

 

In general, try to for resistance passive shield and hull modificators and look at my crew implant setup. xKostyan made a very very good review of resistance implants in 2014 that still stands, see [here](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/24645-a-guide-to-resistances/).

 

I Blackwood Shipyard I finished with only 1 frigate long range guy left. So it is doable but maybe try to get outside of alien fire and hide and/or stay together with your team.

As for the active modules I choose: its the max engineer as a healer setup.  You can make more aggressive setups and gain more kills though.

 

18

Merry Christmas and a Happy new Year.

 

I think you’re all missing the point i’m trying to make.   The damage done by the AI, combined with the accuracy, makes the Engineers utterly pointless.

When you have a destroyer with 370k highresist HP doing down in 4 seconds by 2 Butchers, there really isn’t anything Engineerfrigates can do,

as well as a full Tanksetup of Rank14 Guard with Phaseshield…

 

The R11+  Gameplay makes playerships useless in general because of the damage done to players, and pretty much any ship is dead instantly because

of the INSANE damage the AI does.   Yesterday i saw a Tackler in R14 PvE get instantly killed by ONE AI…  How is an engineer suppose to “support” against that?.

 

The snipers in the “Defense mission” PvE R11+  will instakill anything not a destroyer…  how is that balanced?, and how would an engineer help against that?.

 

 

This video is nothing but a blatant lie at the current state of the game.  “As long as this heart beating, the team lives on”…  NOT likely in R11+ gameplay.

I’ve seen teams with 2 Engineers get totally annihilated in R11+.   And i know i’m repeating myself, but ALL SHIPS needs to be a viable option for endgame,

it’s called balance which makes for a good gameplay where you aren’t forced into 1 type of ships for survivability.

19

…well  no!

I think you maybe need some tips, so ask around and fly with more experienced players and get tips how to build your ship and how to fly PvE misions…

and Happy New Year ![:)](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/001j.png “:)”)

20

8 hours ago, Progenitor2 said:

I think you’re all missing the point i’m trying to make.   The damage done by the AI, combined with the accuracy, makes the Engineers utterly pointless.

When you have a destroyer with 370k highresist HP doing down in 4 seconds by 2 Butchers, there really isn’t anything Engineerfrigates can do,

as well as a full Tanksetup of Rank14 Guard with Phaseshield…

If destroyer allowed butcher to close in on him to less than 1km, he doesn’t know how to play destroyer. I never ever had my shields down against butchers…

 

Quote

The R11+  Gameplay makes playerships useless in general because of the damage done to players, and pretty much any ship is dead instantly because

of the INSANE damage the AI does.   Yesterday i saw a Tackler in R14 PvE get instantly killed by ONE AI…  How is an engineer suppose to “support” against that?.

 

I see 2 problems here: 

  1. tackler
  2. badly played tackler

Quote

The snipers in the “Defense mission” PvE R11+  will instakill anything not a destroyer…  how is that balanced?, and how would an engineer help against that?.

 

Short answer - Emergency Barrier. Long answer:

They are doing 10k base damage. It has to be very bad build to get one shot for 10k thermal damage. 

 

Quote

  NOT likely in R11+ gameplay.

I’ve seen teams with 2 Engineers get totally annihilated in R11+.   And i know i’m repeating myself, but ALL SHIPS needs to be a viable option for endgame,

it’s called balance which makes for a good gameplay where you aren’t forced into 1 type of ships for survivability.

If you go to Defence Contract/Fire Support - which are pure DPS based maps - with support ships that lack DPS (like 2 engies in a team? Why? 1 engie is more than enough).

Different maps have different optimal setups the only class that is somewhat suboptimal for all maps is an ECM (but it still be useful for beacon cap maps). Even tackler  can be useful in the first stage of Pirate Fort Raid, second stage of Crimson Haze as general DPS booster for bosses etc etc. Engies are irreplaceable for Processing rig and Pirate Fort Raid.

For fun we took Def Contract with 2 recons, gunship and LRF. Here is the result:

Spoiler

 

 

So instead of repeating yourself, maybe listen to other people, enlist to CRS or similar PvE oriented corp and ask for help and people to fly with?