Shipbalance and broken endgame...

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1 hour ago, niripas said:

If destroyer allowed butcher to close in on him to less than 1km, he doesn’t know how to play destroyer. I never ever had my shields down against butchers…

 

 

I see 2 problems here: 

1. tackler
2. badly played tackler

 

Short answer - Emergency Barrier. Long answer:

They are doing 10k base damage. It has to be very bad build to get one shot for 10k thermal damage. 

 

If you go to Defence Contract/Fire Support - which are pure DPS based maps - with support ships that lack DPS (like 2 engies in a team? Why? 1 engie is more than enough).

Different maps have different optimal setups the only class that is somewhat suboptimal for all maps is an ECM (but it still be useful for beacon cap maps). Even tackler  can be useful in the first stage of Pirate Fort Raid, second stage of Crimson Haze as general DPS booster for bosses etc etc. Engies are irreplaceable for Processing rig and Pirate Fort Raid.

For fun we took Def Contract with 2 recons, gunship and LRF. Here is the result:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

So instead of repeating yourself, maybe listen to other people, enlist to CRS or similar PvE oriented corp and ask for help and people to fly with?

 

 

And you’re still missing the point i’m trying to make.   The AI does ENTIRELY TOO MUCH DMG, and no… i wasn’t even close to the Butchers, both of them just targeted my

destroyer and since i’m a CAPITALSHIP that actually has to be built with effort and time, i should easily be able to tank the damage… yet they nuked me with 1 volley each.

 

Destroyers shouldn’t have to “avoid” damage like a fighter. With 370k EHP i shouldn’t have to fear much except a swarm of enemies or possibly a boss.

Having 2 non-boss ships killing my destroyer that fast, shouldn’t happen.  But it seems like the Devs are hellbent on gimping destroyers by giving all ships

a idiotic 300% damagebonus towards dessis… making it pointless to actually build them.

 

Even in Rank11+, a rank11 destroyer melts by the AI.

 

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ok then , everytime - you can try to fly more often in ships you are successful in and after playing some time take up ships you formerly wasn’t successful with and see if skill-improvements made a difference

 

Off-topic: what I do find sub-optimal, is that the AI-bot ships of same class and type seem to have different base damage and survivability in PvE Coop, Open Space and so forth. I would prefer them to have roughly the same base stats consitently  - but that is another point to discuss

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On 01/01/2018 at 6:49 AM, Progenitor2 said:

 

And you’re still missing the point i’m trying to make.   The AI does ENTIRELY TOO MUCH DMG, and no… i wasn’t even close to the Butchers, both of them just targeted my

destroyer and since i’m a CAPITALSHIP that actually has to be built with effort and time, i should easily be able to tank the damage… yet they nuked me with 1 volley each.

 

Destroyers shouldn’t have to “avoid” damage like a fighter. With 370k EHP i shouldn’t have to fear much except a swarm of enemies or possibly a boss.

Having 2 non-boss ships killing my destroyer that fast, shouldn’t happen.  But it seems like the Devs are hellbent on gimping destroyers by giving all ships

a idiotic 300% damagebonus towards dessis… making it pointless to actually build them.

 

Even in Rank11+, a rank11 destroyer melts by the AI.

 

 

How about we flip it around the other way. What if this wasn’t PvE and was instead PvP, and you were the Butchers? How would you feel, two guard frigates, shooting off as much as you can and the destroyer just shrugs of the damage? And yes I know I know, it’s not PvP. But the fact of the matter is that  PvE is a team game and if you work as a team you’re less likely to die. Also bearing in mind that _just because it’s Ai doesn’t mean you’re not supposed to die ever or win all the time. _Now yes. Destroyers need a rework. And yes Ai hit-scan and uber-damage in co-op vs ai is a thing. But that doesn’t mean that just because you’re in a destroyer you should have god mode, or that these modes are unwinable. Also, no, destroyers are not capital ships. Battleships and Dreadnoughts are capital ships. Destroyers, believe it or not, are still in the realm of light craft.

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I will make an engi in depth guide bro dont you worry. Its the strongest and single most important class in the game.

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On 31.12.2017 at 8:49 PM, Progenitor2 said:

 

And you’re still missing the point i’m trying to make.   The AI does ENTIRELY TOO MUCH DMG, and no… i wasn’t even close to the Butchers, both of them just targeted my

destroyer and since i’m a CAPITALSHIP that actually has to be built with effort and time, i should easily be able to tank the damage… yet they nuked me with 1 volley each.

 

Destroyers shouldn’t have to “avoid” damage like a fighter. With 370k EHP i shouldn’t have to fear much except a swarm of enemies or possibly a boss.

Having 2 non-boss ships killing my destroyer that fast, shouldn’t happen.  But it seems like the Devs are hellbent on gimping destroyers by giving all ships

a idiotic 300% damagebonus towards dessis… making it pointless to actually build them.

 

Even in Rank11+, a rank11 destroyer melts by the AI.

 

Basically what you are saying there is you want to be an undestructable godlike in any destroyer or frigate and make fighters and inties plain useless. You got to think about how that is fair and balanced. And besides you are basically saying want the endgame content for 4 people be easy for one person?

[39930487]

I understand him, that he wants more tank – he’s not pledging for super-ness, imho.

 

I would have solved the problem with destroyers in this way : out of the 12 main-gun-mounts, 6 go for smaller anti-lightship guns and 6 go for heavy guns and I would have made a key for switching between the two main-gun types. In this way we would have had 6 gunship-class weapons and 6 frigate class weapon.

The inactive main guns would have acted like a plasma turret.

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On 27.12.2017 at 5:40 AM, Progenitor2 said:

 

I was flying my Trex-Mk2 a few days ago in a R11 coop match and ONE AI Tackler took my Guard-tank down in 3 seconds flat…

No engineer-frigate will ever be able to repair that.

Of course. Not to mention  that this situation is impossible. Trex-MKII cannot join coop game.

On 31.12.2017 at 7:49 PM, Progenitor2 said:

 

And you’re still missing the point i’m trying to make.   The AI does ENTIRELY TOO MUCH DMG, and no… i wasn’t even close to the Butchers, both of them just targeted my

destroyer and since i’m a CAPITALSHIP that actually has to be built with effort and time, i should easily be able to tank the damage… yet they nuked me with 1 volley each.

 

Destroyers shouldn’t have to “avoid” damage like a fighter. With 370k EHP i shouldn’t have to fear much except a swarm of enemies or possibly a boss.

Having 2 non-boss ships killing my destroyer that fast, shouldn’t happen.  But it seems like the Devs are hellbent on gimping destroyers by giving all ships

a idiotic 300% damagebonus towards dessis… making it pointless to actually build them.

 

Even in Rank11+, a rank11 destroyer melts by the AI.

 

I assume that you didn’t watch my video then. I took Brave into the harm’s way on purpose - I was under fire by 3 Turtles and then took multiple hits from Commander mini-boss. And from Cruiser turrets. Still flying. Maybe your play style is not matched to the ship class? Every class has a flaw - in case of destroyers it’s that increased damage zone. Remove it completely and you have OP ship, not fitting into rock-paper-scissors scheme. Heck in real life it happened that destroyer was killed by a single missile from a fighter. 

Also checked on the Defence Contract with all destroyers - no problems whatsoever. Heck - speedrun tactics for those maps calls for 2 destroyers…

 

12 hours ago, avarshina said:

I would have solved the problem with destroyers in this way : out of the 12 main-gun-mounts, 6 go for smaller anti-lightship guns and 6 go for heavy guns and I would have made a key for switching between the two main-gun types. In this way we would have had 6 gunship-class weapons and 6 frigate class weapon.

The inactive main guns would have acted like a plasma turret.

That’s actually a valid idea - it needs a bit more of thinking to not make it OP, but… yeah. Sounds cool ”)

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12 hours ago, avarshina said:

I would have solved the problem with destroyers in this way : out of the 12 main-gun-mounts, 6 go for smaller anti-lightship guns and 6 go for heavy guns and I would have made a key for switching between the two main-gun types. In this way we would have had 6 gunship-class weapons and 6 frigate class weapon.

The inactive main guns would have acted like a plasma turret.

I fell like that would be super broken…

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16 minutes ago, Flash0914 said:

I fell like that would be super broken…

Needs more though - because of the turret-mount distribution on the various destroyer ships.

What I though of is : lessen DPS in destroyers - would give more leeway for tank, because its more balanced that way (barter damage for tank)

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Just now, avarshina said:

Needs more though - because of the turret-mount distribution on the various destroyer ships.

What I though of is : lessen DPS in destroyers - would give more leeway for tank, because its more balanced that way (barter damage for tank)

I’d say the opposite lower their healthpool and repair cost but give them higher dps… that way they can be substantial for a team but also are not to tough to take out. I mean in domination when 3 enemy destroyers are sitting at the beacons you have basically lost because you can’t get rid of them.

[39930487]

14 minutes ago, Flash0914 said:

I’d say the opposite lower their healthpool and repair cost but give them higher dps… that way they can be substantial for a team but also are not to tough to take out. I mean in domination when 3 enemy destroyers are sitting at the beacons you have basically lost because you can’t get rid of them.

Think it through - with that speed it takes ages to be in the battle and then you be killed in not time because you are slow and a big target to everyone and her grandmother…

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2 hours ago, avarshina said:

Think it through - with that speed it takes ages to be in the battle and then you be killed in not time because you are slow and a big target to everyone and her grandmother…

“Surpressor class” a destroyers job is not to be in the middle of the action and facetank the enemy team, but to provide fire support for their own team. If someone comes close enough to you  your team is probably already broken. Plus there should be more punishments for Destroyers in beacon matches… Gravi Lense is plain unfair in those games.