Ship roles.

Suggestions Balance
1

I’ve noticed much about the tweaks and changes of the ship roles within the game, aside from the patches that bothered so many. I still think this game is very nice and I still enjoy throwing out ideas in order to give a little flavor to the game. In this topic I’ll be talking about roles.

 

Personally I believe in roles being the thing that further separates classes. Balancing should be based off the role designated to the rank of ship and special modules should be given to these vessels in order to further express their roles. Course this means a whole mess of changes but its not something impossible.

 

Now already we have the three classes, their function is designated as the buffer, debuffer, and combat, which are the ships given to us. Now roles further separate this by play styles, naturally there are three for any game, them being Passive, Aggressive, and Manipulative. I think that each tech level should have all three of the roles specified, and that these ships are on par with one another. Meaning similar active slots and stats. However they would differ more from their role and faction. This is excluding the fact that the recent patch changes merged the tiers but that is another matter. I guess a more ease way of stating this is that each tech class, within each tech level, have three variations of ships that suit a play style and are capable of mixing up play styles through customization.

 

Now I am unsure how the devs want to work with it because I’ve been seeing these roles just go back and forth. I know that they wish to make the roles more diverse. What comes to mind is that the three roles given out should reflect on a style of play specifically for that class. Which is how it should be, for example you now have engineer frigates running as the support vessels to repair friendly vessels and protection or guard ships have bonuses to use self defense items. Course that is not to say that the role just determines how we play it but it would be nice if they reflected such a play style more. We can always customize every ship differently but if such a change was done this would mean even more modules, active, passive, mods would have to be made to further diversity the roles. But who does not like that anyway? Nevertheless the choice of ships would be obvious to the player and they can acquire the vessel that suits their play style without ill effects of the vessel being lesser compared to the others of its tech level.

 

Also to add, implants when unlocked would be nice if they effected the ships within the tech level and below rather than within the rank.

 

What I am throwing out there is to make the ships of the same class within the same tech level play out very differently from one another however still on par with one another. Each ship just seem all to similar aside from the bonus, secondary, and special module effect. That and you have the sense of ‘that ship is better than this one’ sort of thing.

 

I have a few ideas myself but I’m curious if anyone would agree and what ideas would they be able to throw into the mix.

2

Nothing? Well one of my ideas sort of makes roles into class ‘types’.

 

Like making Frigates into Strategic frigates, Destroyers, Corvettes. Fighters into Heavy/Tactical, Assault/Combat, Covert Ops. Interceptors into ECM, Recon, Bomber/Saboteur. Course some of those roles are already in there, I just think they should be more different in that sense stat wise while being on par when it comes to one another rather than having one basic version and two advanced sub faction versions with bonus stats to modules.

 

Each type giving focus to a certain play style within the class…

3

Sounds good to me.  I have actually been working on getting rep to get ahold of an interceptor capable of holding a large missile so as to try out a “rapid strike bomber” idea. 

 

Honestly, I kind of think that the buff roles of fighters and frigates should actually be swapped with regards to friendly support buffs.  That is, make the fighters the ones that can choose to be healers, and the frigates the ones that can be resistance boosters with regards to those friendly support modules. 

 

 

Having some “actual” variations among the ships could be interesting.  For instance, lets say that a few fighters had a trait that boosted healing they do, but reduces their weapon damage 20 or 30% relative to a typical fighter.   This fighter would also have an F special that while active disables their own weapons and replaces them with a player-aimed (and quite visible) beam that heals and/or buffs a friendly target in some manner.  The specific manner can be dependant on the faction.  Empire for instance may heal a target’s hull and provide hull resistance boosts for 10 seconds each time the heal “ticks” (non-stacking, so it is MAX 10 seconds after they stop healing someone).  Maybe federation’s can do both hull and shield at half-rate relative to the other two (so same healing total), and increases target speed and turn for 10 seconds, and Jericho would naturally then get shields and shield resistance boosts. 

 

Such variations could also allow for some “tankish” frigates too.  For instance, a few frigs with a passive trait that reduces damage they deal by 20% or otherwise nerfs it, but in exchange they have a decent bit more health and shield then usual.  And maybe an F special that is soley defensive in nature rather then offensive. 

 

“strike” interceptors could also be interesting.  Give them -20% gun damage, +40% missile damage or something, and give them a couple more missile slots then normal.  A particularly bomberish type could be given 1 large missile with a capacity of 2 or 3, and 2 MORE large missile slots that each have a capacity of 1.  Basically, making them into a one-time-per-battle missile spamming death ship (since separate slots don’t share cooldowns). 

4

On a side note, making fighters the healers and frigates the resist boosters would also help limit part of the issue with frigates currently:  They effectively are both the healers AND tanks, if we were to apply classical MMO roles to them.  That is why some people dislike going up against frigate-heavy teams.  It would also give some people a reason to try using something other then a frigate in a scenario (even if interceptors would still be of very limited use).  On that note, scenario bosses need to be vulnerable to ALL interceptor debuffs (fighter ones too), so there is at least a little merit in someone bringing one to a fight. 

5

When in comes to ship classes interceptors, fighters, and frigates, they mostly differ by 50% or 25%. Damage, hull, speed, maneuverability. As well as their modules, when it comes to tanks, really any of the classes can be fit quite an impressive tank. With the downside of being less effective in doing anything else. Frigates aren’t tanks, they just have more hull or shield to make up with slow movement. All the classes seem to have some survivability rating either it being noted by their speed or health.

 

Though the role of a tanky support ship is better filled by the frigate because they are the buffer, fighters are combat, and interceptors are the debuffer. If the class roles were swap it would make frigates even more tanky then they are, and support ships will never be around to heal because of constant involvement within combat.

 

Though as stated before, making the roles more like a variety of ship class would probably give more selections for the game.

6

I posted something along these lines in another thread. But I agree that ships should have a more defined role. We have 3 factions, So I’d personally like to see 3 roles for each type of ship.

In most other MMOs we can see classes and have an expectation. IE: A warrior with a shield and sword is generally thought of as a tank. and most MMOs follow the holy trinity of DD/Support/Tank. Some games blur the lines more than others. but in generally these are the things people look for in a game.

A game like Starconflict it’s difficult to follow the trinity. So I like seeing the passive/aggressive/manipulative better.

A couple of game systems would need to be adjusted to fully implement a scheme i’d like to suggest. I’ve been holding onto these ideas because I haven’t seen the T4 ships yet, and just now have access to T3. so the majority of my experience has been T2. Please keep this in mind when you read what I write.

Change of Contract system.

Simply put, it doesn’t make sense to me. We’re mercenaries. We’re limiting ourselves to accepting contracts from a single faction. not only that, a single subfaction.

People like loyalty, especially governments/nations. but in general, mercenaries are not known for their loyalty. If a mercenary is loyal at all, it is to himself. occasionally you can find idealists in this kind of group, or find corporations that are more like armies. but in general a mercenary concerns himself with one thing: money and reputation.

That being said. We should be able to accept contracts from any faction at any time based on our own whims. To me, this feels more like a mercenary. these contracts can be setup as daily/hourly quests that reset, and we can sign/accept contracts based on w/e faction we want to gain reputation with. this can unlock more implants and ships more casually. rather than feeling like you have to grind out all of one faction before switching to another.

This allows us easier access to special modules from other factions, and therefore greater customization for the type of ship we like to pilot or type of role we like to fill. We can fill our hanger with 3 types of interceptors, or 3 types of ships specialized for a certain role.

As a side note, it would be interesting if rival corps could produce contracts that mercenaries can pick up to attack eachother. IE: Corp A puts a contract on the market that pays out mercenaries to kill mercs from Corp B. (implemented much further down the line. just something that can add more depth to the game)

The big reason I’d like to see an option to gain reputation in a more free-form action is because special modules can really determine the specialization of a ship. this would allow players to pick roles for themselves, and not feel pidgeonholed because they picked federation, empire, or Jerricho to start with.

I personally like interceptors, mainly because I like flying fast. So i’ll use them as an example.

In generally, there are 3 things we can currently do with an interceptor. There are a couple other things, but they are really a hybrid of the main 3.

  1. Backline Debuffer/anti-artillery // Jerricho/Tachyon Cocoon

Break into the enemy back line frigates and shut them down with ECM debuffs. can tank pulsars with tachyon cocoon. stunlock 1 ship for 11 seconds, 2 ships for 6 seconds, and any number of ships in range of cocoon for 2-3 seconds. a single interceptor can disrupt an entire frigate line simply by showing up.

  1. Recon/Beacon taker // Empire/Micro-warp

With the built in micro-warp engine these ships can get to any objective before anyone else guaranteed. Once there you can secure that objective. taking beacons with enhanced speed, or weakening a key target with a remodulator to take out shields, and then making sure they dont’ get those back with a well placed drone. you can easily get out of a bad situation with superior piloting and the aid of a cloaking module.

  1. Saboteur/Anti-Fighter // Federation/Plasma Web

When you think of an interceptor, you think of a fast ship. one that can intercept a key target. once there, it has the tools and means to take it out.

Building for increased crit chance and doing devastating damage with an Orion System, rockets, and a plasma web you can really bring the pain down on an enemy fighter that’s out of place and force your enemy to carefully think about entering your space.

Ah, but clearly we can have specialized roles already and do these things with current modules. The problem is that it’s not that obvious what we can do with an interceptor. it’s not obvious how our special modules synergize with active modules, or even our rocket choices and passive choices. more direction here would be very welcome.

Someone who plays an interceptor wants to be able to get to key targets quickly, intercept enemy ships and take them out.

To put it in more standard terms, our interceptor players are ‘rogues’ we want a high alpha burst strike to take out key targets, limited DPS. and we want to be fast and agile. We want to take a big risk and get a big reward. currently interceptors feel weak, as an average interceptor pilot will struggle against an equally skilled fighter or frigate. simply because it’s not obvious how to use your tools or when.

One reason FFXIV failed its initial launch was a lack of direction. You could equip any skill on any class as long as you had learned it. a complete and total customization of your character. play your way, anyway, at anytime.

But the player base didn’t like this. why? we always here people shouting for more customization! we had a system that allowed us to do anything we wanted! why did it fail!?

Simply put people don’t always know what they want. At some point or another, I’m sure we’ve all been on the job market looking for a good opportunity and read a vague job description and said to ourselves: wow…these people have no idea what they want.

The same is true of gamers. What we really want is customization within a specialization. most people dont’ want complete and total customization. they may THINK they want that. because it sounds good. Take Skyrim as an example. almost everyone when they make a character makes someone who is specialized. an assassin, a marksman, etc. You may unlock every potential path and play with it. but 95% of the players will all have a favorite way of paying a character. IE: we like specialization. give it to us. allow us to customize within that specialization and you will become gods.

TL;DR:

we need a better system for accessing special modules. this allows players to customize easier within a specialization. Currently as a Jerricho I can’t make a really good objective taker. Simply because I will always be outclassed by micro-warp. At the same time I will always outclass other non-jerricho interceptors at disruption. Simply because Tachyon Cocoon synergizes so well with ECM modules.

A learning curve is expected, but a bit more direction on synergizing special and active modules to certain playstyles would be great. Imbedded video tutorials would be ideal. but really anything to help explain what you mean when a ship is covert ops, Recon, or ECM. allowing us easier access to special modules will give many players the ‘customization’ they are looking for.

7

For frigates it would be nice to have these variations.

 

Corvette: Front line support/Protective/Manipulative

A corvette is a fast frigate, and could be faster than the other variants, meant to move along side fighters and provide area of effect debuffs. Granted the federation drone ability to better support brawling play.

 

Strategic frigate: Healer/Buffer/Passive

This role is already in the game but making it more of a variant of the frigate such changes can be put into it. More tanky than the other variants, designed for survivability and to heal team members when needed. Granted the empire disintegrator for long range support.

 

Destroyer: Heavy damage dealer/Sniper/Agressive

A destroyer is basically a ship designed to take out frigates. It itself can be a frigate. This is the kind of class that deals damage in exchange it is less survivable. Meant either for long range combat or to push against ship formations. Granted the jerico guided torpedo ability for AoE damage at short to long range.

 

So what would happen to the sub faction variants of these modules? Well we can always treat these variants like equipment, which could be granted to us when we reach a certain rank with a sub faction. Another sub faction could be added and new variants of the special modules can be put into the selection.

 

Course though, every faction would seem to have a ‘good’ type of ship, federation would probably have the best Corvette variants, Jerico destroyers, Empire strategic frigates. Though then there is a choice of having a fast federation strategic frigate, a hull resist tanking destroyer, or maybe a beefy shield tanking corvette.

8

like you have stated, I’d personally like to see the factions be more a ‘type’ of ship rather than a ‘race’ of ship. 

 

asking us to choose a race at the start is a fairly traditional standard in an MMO. however this isn’t a traditional MMO. So this feels very awkward to me. especially because we are supposed to be mercenaries. 

 

Fighters and frigates are currently in a better place than interceptors, but I agree more differentiation would be nice. this could be done easily with better tuned implants, improved shop UI, and the addition of more active/passive modules that synergize better with the special modules that make each ship unique and powerful. 

 

Current mechanics really allow for in-depth and unique styles of play, that can cater to almost any playstyle. it just isn’t obvious how to do this, or even what your options are for customizing. As currently some modules are overpowered, especially when stacked (Frigate AoE buffs, Pulsars) or vastly under-rated (Spy drones, engine/fire Suppressors.)

 

Really each of our active modules should build around our special module. and special modules should determine the type of ship it is. building off this mechanic, we can help players customize within a specialization. but in order for that to happen, it should be easier to select active/passive modules by type and we need greater access to special modules regardless of what faction we started with. Most people I know prefer to fly a type of ship, rather than fly as a specific role. 

 

IE: we dont’ see ‘support’ flyers as much as frigate flyers. It’s also unclear as to which faction really excels at what type of role until you’ve played for at least a week. especially since you dont’ really start seeing variety until you’re T2 and moving into T3. That is, when we first start the game, we choose a faction, rather than a ship class. While this isn’t bad per se, the support role is always the least popular. So it’s no surprise that Jerricho is the smallest faction. Rather, I feel our first choice should be ship class (Interceptor/fighter/frigate) followed by a specialization (Utility/Burst/Command). so we’re selecting _what _we are and not who we are. 

 

I think it would also be best if Rank 1 ships included one of each type. so players can experiment more at the start as far as which type of ship they like, and what type of role they like to fulfill. Furthermore, some of the backend reputation needed to rank up, should be moved to the front. slowing down early progression during the experimentation phase and speeding up the back-end specialization phase. 

 

this would also allow a cleanup of the ship trees. by the time we hit rank 3 or 4, we have a pretty good idea of what we want to fly. Splitting the trees up into interceptor only, fighter only, and Frigate only cleans up role progression immensely. So rather than becoming a rank 4 Jerricho/Empire/Federation pilot, you become a rank 4 interceptor/fighter/frigate pilot. 

 

The cons of this is fairly obvious however. that being if you want to fly a variety of type of ship you have to work more. To me, this makes more sense. As real pilots typically specialize by type of craft anyway. you have to invest more time if you want to become proficient at piloting both fast fighters and slow bulky carriers. they are different skill sets. This adds further immersion, as it makes more sense to pay for a change in ship class, rather than a change in faction as a mercenary. we’re buying a liscence/receiving training on how to fly a different class ship. rather than we’re paying to be an employee of a specific subfaction. 

 

The second problem is that PvE matches are heavily skewed to favor frigates. so fighter or, especially, interceptor pilots may feel they made the wrong choice. However, this needs to be balanced out anyway. So providing these balance changes can help support the notion of shifting your primary choice of role to ship. 

 

To provide my own personal experience: Ranks 1-6 I did a lot of experimentation and spent a lot of my hard earned credits on buying all of my Jerricho ships. after testing all of them, I found that I really liked interceptors the best. So while I have access to all these other ships, I feel like i’m pidgeon holed. because I can only fly one type of interceptor until I invest time into ranking up other factions. This can help give players a greater since of customization within a specialization. 

 

TL;DR: 

 

I currently see two options for early decisions making. We can either start by chosing a role, and being able to customize type of ship. IE: I pick Jerricho because their ships are all support oriented. and I can now play a support frigate, fighter, or interceptor based on the jerricho tree. Or we can pick a ship type and customize what role we want to play. IE: I pick interceptor and have access to an interceptor tree. and can then customize the role I want to play by the ship I buy within that tree. I personally prefer the second option. 

 

 

Breaking down into faction rather than class of ship:

 

Federation: Plasma Web/Chameleon/Combat Drones. Alpha Strike ships/Assassins

 

Interceptor class ships:

 

Plasma Web allows Federation Interceptors to have a large alpha burst. making them excellent assassin type ships. I’ve seen some devastating results when combined with the Saboteur class mods that largely increase damage dealt. Building for high crit chance, Orion Systems, and finally a self destruct module. you can really put the hurt on any ship. 

 

Fighter Class Ships:

 

Chameleon is a great tool for getting close to key enemy targets and then blasting them into oblivion. a good fighter can sneak up below/behind an enemy frigate and into their blind spot and quickly take them out before they know what’s going on. They can double as a recon ship, and gather intelligence on enemy formation and look for any weaknesses to exploit. Federation Fighters can also make great raiders, flanking enemy formations, diverting their attention, and then disapearing from sight. Equiped with an engine and fire supressors they can easily punish any over-extended enemy scouts, assassinating them before they can reveal key allied formations. 

 

Frigate Class Ships:

 

Combat drones make both an excellent offensive and defensive tool for the Federation’s frigates. Being able to defend allied formations from missiles or increase their own life expectancy on the front line. Equiped with a warpgate and a pulsar, Federation frigates can become a terror for frontline fighters and interceptors with extra damage, while becoming a blessing to allied front-line ships by providing protection and zone-control. 

 

Empire: Micro-warp Engine/Overdrive/Disentigrator Ray. Securing Objectives/Core Damage Dealers

 

Interceptor Class Ships:

 

The Micro-Warp Engine allows Empire interceptors to get to a key target before any other ship. They can secure beacons or weaken key enemy targets for other incoming vanguard ships. 

 

Fighter Class Ships:

 

Overdrive is a powerful tool for the Empire Fighters. Allowing them both enhanced mobility and damage for a short time.  Equipping with a Valkyrie system and a target painter allows Empire Fighters to take command of the front line skirmishes and lead the charge. 

 

Frigate Class Ships:

 

Functioning best as back-line damage dealers, Empire frigates provide long-range support by sniping key targets on the front line. ((Currently I feel active modules are the weakest for Empire frigates. There aren’t really any active modules that support the sniper role.)) 

 

Jerricho: Tachyon Cocoon/Phase Shield/Torpedo. Utility/Support/Tank

 

Interceptor Class Ships:

 

Tachyon Cocoon makes a great tool for terrorizing both Enemy front line ships and also backline support ships. Being able to survive through missile barrages as well as devastating pulsar blasts, the Jerricho Interceptor can easily become the bane of any enemy formation. While lacking offensive options, once it has intercepted a key target the Jerricho Interceptor can then lock it down with powerful ECM modules. effectively removing one, or several, key ships from combat for short periods of time. 

 

Fighter Class Ships:

 

Equiped with a powerful phase shield that can be changed on the fly, the Jerricho fighter can survive extended skirmishes with ease no matter what an enemy brings to the table. Being able to stay in the fight longer, means the Jerricho fighter can provided much needed sustained DPS and fire support for front-line allies. Equipping with Polarization and Aegis Systems can greatly help other allied fighters and interceptors on the front line secure objectives and defend them from enemy ships.

 

Frigate Class Ships:

 

Jerricho Frigates sport the highest resistances and shields of any other frigate class ship. Allowing them to easily control large areas of space with their guided torpedo. Excelling at mid-range, they can barrage both vanguard and rearguard enemy formations with ease, disrupting formations with powerful area of effect torpedo and protecting allied flanks. Furthermore, equipping themselves with AoE regeneration buffs allows them to keep allied frontline and backline formations healthy and safe. 

9

Anyone else have any ideas for this topic?

10

The ship roles will get some bigger improvements soon.

11

The ship roles will get some bigger improvements soon.

 

Will we get any clues as to what these changes will be? 

 

will balancing of ship classes also take place at the same time? or is this purely focused on ship role?

12

The ship roles will get some bigger improvements soon.

 

Well we kinda know of this, I personally wish to be of more help with it and I am sure others would be as well. Pretty much why I made this topic about it after reading on how you plan to proceed with this, but it was a little vague…

13

The ship roles will get some bigger improvements soon.

so basically, don’t buy anything now 'cause it might get nerfed. soon.

14

So now that the role system is out, what you guys think of it? It is completely unexpected to me personally…

15

so basically, don’t buy anything now 'cause it might get nerfed. soon.

 

This is a practical neccessity.  

I am a million off getting just one ship.  

I literally can’t afford not to wait for some tweaks.  

Bit of a shame, I did love switching my Deimos 2 from a team buff ship to a tank and back.  

Now its a gunship, and a pretty boring one at that.  

I’m going to check out Jericho fighters but it will take me weeks to buy one.  

16

So now that the role system is out, what you guys think of it? It is completely unexpected to me personally…

 

 

I consider the 0.8 ship role patch a step backwards for a few reasons the main one being taking away the diversity of equipping modules on almost any a ship so it could be a hybrid and changing the way certain modules behaved / functioned so they are much less useful than before.

 

What I was expecting was limiting how many modules could be equipped by all ships that are outside of that ships role and by making modules that could only be equipped by Tackler/command/ECM/Covert Ops etc. much more effective by those classes, and then reducing the modules that aren’t in their ship roles by 25-50%. I was also expecting ‘ship roles’ to really beef up the effectiveness of their role modules 50-100% more, making such modules much more tempting to equip than modules outside of the ship role.

 

Overall I dislike where the game is going and pretty much have reduced my play testing to only 1/8th of what it once was because the ‘fun factor’ has gone down that much for me. I only been playing 2 solid weeks, and the 0.8 patch being the start of my 3rd week tanked my experience and I was all set to invest in this game via STEAM DLC. But now the game did a 180 turn on me and now I pulled that decision.

 

Star Conflict isn’t the first prolonged ‘open beta’ game that I initially enjoyed but ended up being a game I extremely did not enjoy. There are past games which I bought ‘founder packs’ and in game shop items during the beta phase and ultimately ended up disappointed with the game and left it.

 

My advice for all players never buy into a beta with real money or founder packs until its in its last phases of beta and ready to go live, that way you pretty much know almost exactly what kind of game your buying into. As for me I’ll set Star Conflict on the back burner and see if further changes down the line improve the game where I have “fun” in it again.

17

Overall I like the changes. they are similar to what I was talking about. we now have defined ship roles, and we build around special modules. 

 

I could go either way on the ‘hybrid’ problem. but overall this really does help balance the field and spread out a few of the more ‘OP’ modules. this essentially makes them not over powered anymore

 

i haven’t messed around with the different types enough to really be able to say anything. I do have to say the Recon interceptor could use a little something. the other two feel pretty good. 

 

Frigates are in a good place from what i’ve played. but I haven’t played enough to really be able to say anything concrete, but they have changed the most. I’ll post more after i’ve played more. but that honestly might be a while. i’ve shifted the time i’m spending on this game to other betas that are just now starting up.