Restriction in the number of Ship types(POLL)

No it isn’t. The LRFs are too stupid to move out of spawn. Offering them more points to cap won’t do anything, but taking away their ability to snipe unless they do so from a useful position would help the team.

Tell me, have you ever tried to use the desintegrator at close range? it is just impossible, that is the reason the Jerry LRFs are better as mid range gunships than the empire ones, because with tachyon charge you don’t need to wait for the desintegrator charge and the reduced sniper scope of view.

 

Just leave LRF as they are now. They are a nice class, and they are also a needed class in this game. The problem is the bad players, not the class.

 

 

OH, better Idea, the farther you are from spawn, the BETTER or more powerful your weapons become! 

 

That would made the LRF OP. and you could snipe anyway from 10 k meters. This is a 3 dimensional game. You can go up 7 k meters, be far from the spawn point and still sniping from 10 k meters. Good players would get kills, and bad players won’t, as it is now.

OH, better Idea, the farther you are from spawn, the BETTER or more powerful your weapons become!

I like that idea just to see what it does to that terrible terrible dreadnought debris map.

 

Just leave LRF as they are now. They are a nice class, and they are also a needed class in this game. The problem is the bad players, not the class.

 

That would made the LRF OP. and you could snipe anyway from 10 k meters. This is a 3 dimensional game. You can go up 7 k meters, be far from the spawn point and still sniping from 10 k meters. Good players would get kills, and bad players won’t, as it is now.

 

 

Bad players, key word. I faced some top quality LRF. But they are far and few in between. 

 

I like that idea just to see what it does to that terrible terrible dreadnought debris map.

 

Lets stick the “Beacon capping increased to 600 points for the LRF class.” Seems like the best unbiased idea to date? 

Tell me, have you ever tried to use the desintegrator at close range? it is just impossible, that is the reason the Jerry LRFs are better as mid range gunships than the empire ones, because with tachyon charge you don’t need to wait for the desintegrator charge and the reduced sniper scope of view.

 

Just leave LRF as they are now. They are a nice class, and they are also a needed class in this game. The problem is the bad players, not the class.

I try not to use the disintegrator at all. Last game I played with my LRF I got 5 kills, 5 assists and fired two disintegrator shots, and that was because the game was ending and there was no way for my team to pull it back so I tried to grab a last minute kill.

 

The Long Range Frigate is good in the hands of a good player, but for every skilled LRF there are a hundred morons who should be banned from using the class.

The Long Range Frigate is good in the hands of a good player, but for every skilled LRF there are a hundred morons who should be banned from using the class.

 

And there are a hundred morons for every good player for literally every class. So what?

And there are a hundred morons for every good player for literally every class. So what?

 

I think you just put the kalap on the fasz.

And there are a hundred morons for every good player for literally every class. So what?

The difference is that no other class, when played badly, hurts the team as a whole as much as a bad LRF.

 

With any other class, a moron is at least capable of being a bullet sponge and distracting people from more important targets. The LRF can’t even do that.

 

Moreover, even bad players do cap now and again. Even if they buy their team just enough time to capture, or they stall the enemy from capping just long enough, they can make a difference in game. Pug LRFs don’t do that. Pug LRFs can’t do that.

Even if this is partly true, and I do hate a team with too many LRFs I would not want them to be censored, or any class being restricted.

The difference is that no other class, when played badly, hurts the team as a whole as much as a bad LRF.

I’m not so sure about that, it’s just easiest to identify bad players in LRFs because they’ll sit away from the action.

Maybe these two LRF are xxxx and the guy who is picking the third can get more kills than both of them alone. If I’m playing solo I fly the ship I want, the ship that I have to level up, and the one that I think is more effective for the current map and mode.

Well it is merely a warning, I never said anything about heeding it. 

 

There really needs to be some way to make the diminishing returns of a team that is more than 20% LRF more apparent and obvious other than smacking the whole team with a loss.

 

Honestly, there are not many options to this problem that aren’t overly elitist or obstructive. As a class, I agree with the notion that it is, for the most part, perfectly fine. It’s the players piloting that is the issue. 

 

While I really like the idea of a “Hard Cap” on LRFs, it’s kinda terrible in practice. I play Team Fortress 2 and played on a community server that restricted a lot of the “diminishing return” support classes such as Sniper and Spy and restricted Engineer and Heavy because we were pubscrubs running our own server. A frequent problem was having a restricted class tied up with unskilled players and it was sometimes disastrous to get said players off the class to free up the slot. And sometimes stacking 1/4 of the team with Engineers is viable in specific circumstances.

 

On one hand it forced stronger team composition, on the other, it’s a heavy-handed approach and overly restrictive. Sure it works well enough on a game like TF2 with many server options, (don’t like class restrictions? Find a server that doesn’t have them) but on a game like Star Conflict it’s an untenable solution to the LRF problem. It is simply too elitist. You cannot stop someone from making a stupid choice just because you think it is stupid.

 

The best option is to simply raise awareness and absolutely hammer the fact that LRFs when played as a camping sniper is very strongly hit with diminishing returns. That when someone sees two, three, or even just ONE other LRF on their team, they need to think “Maybe me going LRF won’t help me” and choose something else. 

 

Bottom line really is that pubs are pubs. They’re open to the every-man. What you see as a dumb camping LRF is possibly someone that wants to sit back and unwind with something that takes little effort, or someone that cares only about easy point-and-click kills, or otherwise does not put the same level of investment as the likes of us do. When playing pubs, you’re just as likely to be straddled with a gaggle of snipers as the enemy team. It’s best to shut up and deal, even if it sucks and means taking a loss despite putting in 10 times the effort.

Quick fix for the LRF - friendly fire enabled. If I see someone spawn as LRF I can just use CovOps to plasma arc then and constantly grief them until they change class. It works in Sector Conquest, so it should work in Skirmish!

@genelnari,

this is very optimistic )) i absolutely agree that hard restrictions shall not be implemented, but you can not make people think, and games like dota proves that over and over, people do not think or unable to realise what team composition is all about, everyone for themself in a teambased game, and you see games with 5 carries or 5supports and other stupidstuff. As long as we dont have enough population for maTchmaking to properly separate players by average ability to play, you will see stupid stuff like this. And even after, that is not going anywhere it is just gonna be isolated to a “stupid players” bracket

Quick fix for the LRF - friendly fire enabled. If I see someone spawn as LRF I can just use CovOps to plasma arc then and constantly grief them until they change class. It works in Sector Conquest, so it should work in Skirmish!

Next time the LRF spanws he can kill you whenever he wants, the times he wants. Don’t try to be the Vigilante. 

@genelnari,

this is very optimistic )) i absolutely agree that hard restrictions shall not be implemented, but you can not make people think, and games like dota proves that over and over, people do not think or unable to realise what team composition is all about, everyone for themself in a teambased game, and you see games with 5 carries or 5supports and other stupidstuff. As long as we dont have enough population for maTchmaking to properly separate players by average ability to play, you will see stupid stuff like this. And even after, that is not going anywhere it is just gonna be isolated to a “stupid players” bracket

While I completely agree that most people on this planet are plain stupid, I keep having to point out that given the current grind/reward system you simply cannot expect players to play for the win. If I remembered to pick up some contracts and I happen to have picked up the ones I need to complete on a Jericho LRF I will spawn that LRF no matter what and I will hunt for those multi-phase kill shots no matter what. So do others. This is the reality.

Fix the reward system and you’ll see more players try to win.

I can speak from experience, that this notion to have a hard cap comes from frustration

 

Allow me to explain.

 

Yesterday, I was in a “Losing Streak”, where me and my single squad mate were thrown into battles, were we faced 1. a kill squad. 2. Unbalanced SR on each side. 3. Unfair ship layouts. It was the MM fault we lost, as in each of the battles, I myself was synergizings ships, So I was more focused on objectives and kills. 

 

There was one battle were there were 4. Yes 4 LRF. Needless to say, the enemy triple capped us and literally, 3 other players, including myself, just decided to sit in spawn with the LRF and wait till the match was over. Unfair right? Sure, but I looked at there roster of other ships, and each were not synergized 1 or 2 levels. Thus they were just trying to raise there levels. But you can clearly see, that if you have too much of a ship type for the wrong game mode. Then you will lose. 

 

I think there is a lack of incentive to cap the beacons as a LRF. Imagine if LRF got 500 points instead of the normal 300 points for capping, Mabye they would move up and use there 6 guns? 

 

Also its impossible to cap people nor is it wise to do so, UNLESS its a specific game mode separate from the normal Q. 

Recently I figured I’d try to queue for T4 with some ships on the off chance I’d get a match.  I didn’t look at the queue first and actually got a match.  I died once, and then choose an Empire LRF.  Then I realized it was fitted for PvE with 1800m range heavy blasters.  The game mode was capture the beacons.  I followed a frigball as carefully as possible and captured beacons!  Other than pure sniping, which I skipped because I know I’m rusty on it, I had no other choice.

 

LRF need to be punished for not getting stuck in. Ideally, the Class should be removed entirely. However, a simple fix would be that their main gun only works within 1000m of a live beacon. At least then they would be forced to attack / defend, not sit in spawn with a thumb up their arse.

Then, what do they do in matches without beacons?  If a beacon’s captured are they suddenly powerless to defend themselves?  If they’re outnumbered and outgunned they’ll be unable to run while defending themselves?  Anyway, 1000m range is less than any interceptor’s weapons, 700m is the capture range if I remember.  Sounds more like a guard’s role.

 

OH, better Idea, the farther you are from spawn, the BETTER or more powerful your weapons become! 

That could actually encourage spawn campers.  Maybe the closer you are to the enemy’s spawn the weaker your weapons get?  It might help some of the spawn camping issues in the game.

 

The difference is that no other class, when played badly, hurts the team as a whole as much as a bad LRF.

 

With any other class, a moron is at least capable of being a bullet sponge and distracting people from more important targets. The LRF can’t even do that.

 

Moreover, even bad players do cap now and again. Even if they buy their team just enough time to capture, or they stall the enemy from capping just long enough, they can make a difference in game. Pug LRFs don’t do that. Pug LRFs can’t do that.

Lemmings hurt their team no matter what.  If the player sucks bad enough, I’d rather them be in an LRF hiding and not feeding kills.

 

Quick fix for the LRF - friendly fire enabled. If I see someone spawn as LRF I can just use CovOps to plasma arc then and constantly grief them until they change class. It works in Sector Conquest, so it should work in Skirmish!

Gave server code of conduct IV.6.d: intentionally inflict damage to members of your own team. Shall be punished by blocking the account for 24 hours.

 

Intentionally killing any teammate is a bannable offense, for understandable reasons.  It doesn’t matter if it’s PvP or sector conquest.  Maybe you lack the understanding to see why.  We get it, you hate LRF’s.  ICBM’s exist, and before that was Big Bertha, and before that was arrows.  Long range capabilities will always exist on the battlefield.

Proposed that months ago using the Team Fortress 2 model, where you can not get a spy/sniper if there is already one unless there are at least 7 people in the team. If somebody gets it then you have to wait for 12.

 

Although in SCon we realized that if I equip 4 Covert Ops for the lolz or 4 LRF and join a match there is nothing that will stop me using them even if there are too many, right ? 

Not to mention realistic battle, but I avoid realistic at all costs except Sector Conquest, but let’s face it. There you have team/wing, not trolls and you try to win.

The difference is that no other class, when played badly, hurts the team as a whole as much as a bad LRF.

 

With any other class, a moron is at least capable of being a bullet sponge and distracting people from more important targets. The LRF can’t even do that.

 

Moreover, even bad players do cap now and again. Even if they buy their team just enough time to capture, or they stall the enemy from capping just long enough, they can make a difference in game. Pug LRFs don’t do that. Pug LRFs can’t do that.

 

  1. LRF DO draw fire away. There will be brave little interceptors who think they will be heroes and try to kill the LRFs. If they succeed: they were out of action for a long time. If they fail: they were out of action AND will be out of action a little bit more.

  2. LRF can kill/damage/inconvenience people. You don’t see it with the jerry ones because usually they get assists, but they usually do some damage, and they put the fear in others, even if they are bad. When you hear the beep beep beep you will look around, maybe blow a flare or waste something, and if you have to dodge disintegrators (and believe me, average LRF pilots are xxxx at hitting even a Styx thats not flying forward with constant speed.) that’s slowing you down, taking away from your attention.

  3. Average players are stupid. You can cap with a recon against 3 pubs, because they wont hit you (they are fighting the 2k away guard), you can hit 2 of them consistently and you cap faster than the 3rd. They don’t go for capping.

@genelnari,

this is very optimistic )) i absolutely agree that hard restrictions shall not be implemented, but you can not make people think, and games like dota proves that over and over, people do not think or unable to realise what team composition is all about, everyone for themself in a teambased game, and you see games with 5 carries or 5supports and other stupidstuff. As long as we dont have enough population for maTchmaking to properly separate players by average ability to play, you will see stupid stuff like this. And even after, that is not going anywhere it is just gonna be isolated to a “stupid players” bracket

 

Well they did introduce Class Restrictions after 2 years (now 2 yrs ago) in my favourite Dota flavour (StarBattle), and it did hurt the game a bit for a while, but it recovered. Still, you see enough games without any support ship, see new players immediately start with void ray and die, since it is the hardest ship to master, and there are a lot of compos which are not possible now anymore, just because the restrictions do not allow it.

So even after restrictions, there are enough games without a proper viable composition. It did not fix idiots. Of course in that game genre restrictions also make more sense, it is kinda part of that game design. I still rather dont have this sort of regulation in SC.

 

 

 

Fix the reward system and you’ll see more players try to win.

 

not really sure, since you do get more rewards for winning. and you can feel that pretty much over time, because of the loot. i mean i always play for win.

if losses would not give you rewards, it would hurt the game even more, because pubstomping would make sense then, and it would only add to the grind.

not sure entirely, what you mean by “fix” therefore.

 

i rather have them not fiddling around with it anymore, except buffing it; every time, rewards are adjusted, something else gets more grindy. and atm. i find the grind on the edge of acceptable.

Jerry lrf are a pain in the xxxx when used correctly.

Gave server code of conduct IV.6.d: intentionally inflict damage to members of your own team. Shall be punished by blocking the account for 24 hours.

Intentionally killing any teammate is a bannable offense, for understandable reasons. It doesn’t matter if it’s PvP or sector conquest. Maybe you lack the understanding to see why. We get it, you hate LRF’s. ICBM’s exist, and before that was Big Bertha, and before that was arrows. Long range capabilities will always exist on the battlefield.

IV.6.d and IV.6.f also state you shall not actively avoid dealing damage to the enemy or actively avoid combat. IV.6.i states you shall not aid the enemy team.

LRF sat in spawn is nowhere near the fight, nor is he attacking the enemy. They effectively reduce the number of active players, thus aiding the team.

After I killed the LRF in SQ he started taking part again, but he’d cost us the match by then. We’d been forced to try and fight 2v3 because he’d spent several minutes doing nothing at spawn when he could have been aiding us or capping a beacon elsewhere.

So, LRFs not only hurt the team, they violate at least two rules on a regular basis.