Remove tier 5

Suggestions Balance
1

Hello again pilots !

I have thought of a drastic way to ease the grind of T4 and T5 ships that might be interesting be much more consistant with the sector conquest rk11 + ships prerequisite. You can find the detailed reasoning that lead me to this in another topic : (< base_url >/index.php?/topic/23011-latexs-obt-review/%5DLatex%27s) OBT review.

 

What is this strange and extreme topic title about?
Remove a whole tier? What a nonsensical idea you may think… But not that much.
 

The main idea behind this reasonning is to merge T4 and T5. As I said, It would be much more consistent with the Sector Conquest prerequisite to put the rk10 ships in T3 and to create a T4 that group rk11 to rk15 ships. It would also ease a lot the grind by having the same modules for all the rk11 and above ships and help balance in Sector Conquest to have only one level of weapons, missiles and active modules.

I found it would be much more interesting that ships tiers would be defined by number of active modules and passive modules. We currently have a smooth progression for this, but with weird things in it : rk4 ships are in T2, but they only have 2 active modules when rk5 and 6 have 3 active modules. That create an immediate imbalance for newcomers and force an overcomplicated matchmaking to help correct this issue.
We encounter the exact same problem in T3 : rk7 have 3 actives module when rk8 and 9 have 4.

In the spoiler below, you’ll find a clear table of what could be done to ease the transition between tiers :

Currently, the tier repartition give this :
XfUhRqp.jpg

I have thought to modify it to this :
TLw0XnC.jpg
It keeps the strong progression feeling, but have more consistancy beetween ships in each tier.
You’ll also note that ships all have 9 passive modules from rk11 and above.

This modification has 2 advantages, I must insist on this :

  • It ease the grind, lessen the urge to reach rk13 ships by lowering the end-tier acces.
  • It lessen the imbalance in each tier, that can lead to an easier matchmaking system.

In addition, and to reduce furthermore the imbalance in tier, I think that implants shouldn’t be based on the ship rank, but on the tier you participate. It might not help beginners, but they are at a disadvantage anyway versus full mk4 modules pilots. On the other hand, it can ease the leveling and/or the use of lower ranked ships.
It would take effect by ginving the benefits of all implants to ships of the corresponding tier. In my suggestion, you have by tier :

  • T1 : implants 1 to 3
  • T2 : implants 4 to 6
  • T3 : implants 7 to 10
  • T4 : implants 11 +

Maybe some additionnal tweaking is needed on ships to make it work perfectly (I think of rk14 +5% speed bonus).
The higher ranked ships already have better based stats. So the progression is still there, but maybe it will help with diversity and ease the choice when you want a specific synergy bonus that is only available on a low rank ship.

2

tumblr_inline_n3pyp1Zmjs1suxuut.gif

3

Hello again pilots !

I have thought of a drastic way to ease the grind of T4 and T5 ships that might be interesting be much more consistant with the sector conquest rk11 + ships prerequisite. You can find the detailed reasoning that lead me to this in another topic : (< base_url >/index.php?/topic/23011-latexs-obt-review/%5DLatex%27s) OBT review.

 

What is this strange and extreme topic title about?

Remove a whole tier? What a nonsensical idea you may think… But not that much.

 

The main idea behind this reasonning is to merge T4 and T5. As I said, It would be much more consistent with the Sector Conquest prerequisite to put the rk10 ships in T3 and to create a T4 that group rk11 to rk15 ships. It would also ease a lot the grind by having the same modules for all the rk11 and above ships and help balance in Sector Conquest to have only one level of weapons, missiles and active modules.

I found it would be much more interesting that ships tiers would be defined by number of active modules and passive modules. We currently have a smooth progression for this, but with weird things in it : rk4 ships are in T2, but they only have 2 active modules when rk5 and 6 have 3 active modules. That create an immediate imbalance for newcomers and force an overcomplicated matchmaking to help correct this issue.

We encounter the exact same problem in T3 : rk7 have 3 actives module when rk8 and 9 have 4.

In the spoiler below, you’ll find a clear table of what could be done to ease the transition between tiers :

Currently, the tier repartition give this :

XfUhRqp.jpg

I have thought to modify it to this :

TLw0XnC.jpg

It keeps the strong progression feeling, but have more consistancy beetween ships in each tier.

You’ll also note that ships all have 9 passive modules from rk11 and above.

This modification has 2 advantages, I must insist on this :

  • It ease the grind, lessen the urge to reach rk13 ships by lowering the end-tier acces.
  • It lessen the imbalance in each tier, that can lead to an easier matchmaking system.

In addition, and to reduce furthermore the imbalance in tier, I think that implants shouldn’t be based on the ship rank, but on the tier you participate. It might not help beginners, but they are at a disadvantage anyway versus full mk4 modules pilots. On the other hand, it can ease the leveling and/or the use of lower ranked ships.

It would take effect by ginving the benefits of all implants to ships of the corresponding tier. In my suggestion, you have by tier :

  • T1 : implants 1 to 3
  • T2 : implants 4 to 6
  • T3 : implants 7 to 10
  • T4 : implants 11 +

Maybe some additionnal tweaking is needed on ships to make it work perfectly (I think of rk14 +5% speed bonus).

The higher ranked ships already have better based stats. So the progression is still there, but maybe it will help with diversity and ease the choice when you want a specific synergy bonus that is only available on a low rank ship.

Don’t fix which is not broken.

 

Tier 5 is OK, the main problem is the low population.

4

@ Tillowaty : if you doesn’t give a xxxx about my opinion, allow me to don’t give a xxxx about yours. Sharing a thought won’t hurt anyone, there’s no need to bring the f… word in this discussion.

 

Don’t fix which is not broken.

 

Tier 5 is OK, the main problem is the low population.

 

Then adress the low pop problem.
But it won’t solve the imbalance of bringing T4 in Sector conquest nor the uselessness and redundancy of T4 in progression…

I choose this title cause it is deliberately provocative

Tier 5 is OK, that’s true. My concern is about T4 wich bring nothing interesting beetween T3 and T5.

5

So you remove T5 but make T4 from r11 to r15

 

what’s the difference? Stats will be the same and also the implants. Nothing but the weapon base damage will change, and that’s not a big deal…

 

Also the grind is not a problem, I fear you don’t know what does that word mean. You didn’t play enough games with true grinding to say what you’re saying, honestly.

 

The system is fine (they should fix the ship tree, role talking) we just need people and this game will run just fine.

 

my 2 cents.

6

So you remove T5 but make T4 from r11 to r15

 

what’s the difference? Stats will be the same and also the implants. Nothing but the weapon base damage will change, and that’s not a big deal…

 

Also the grind is not a problem, I fear you don’t know what does that word mean. You didn’t play enough games with true grinding to say what you’re saying, honestly.

 

The system is fine (they should fix the ship tree, role talking) we just need people and this game will run just fine.

 

my 2 cents.

Maybe you don’t remember how it feels to be a newcomer with no license and no DLC… Once you’ve got the payed advantage and some fleet force, yeah it’s not that hard, I have to admit it. I know what grind is (some korean MMO that are grindy as hell, I’m glad SC is not like that !)

It might only be my opinion (again) but I found it a bit slow to reach endgame. I really don’t mind grinding to upgrade my modules though. I just find it plainly useless for T4… As you can play populated and cheaper T3 or T5 in sector conquest to be competitive. There is no incentive to play t4 more than what ios necessary to unlock T5. I hope it’s only a low pop problem.

I truly find there is an issue with T4.

7

@ Tillowaty : if you doesn’t give a xxxx about my opinion, allow me to don’t give a xxxx about yours. Sharing a thought won’t hurt anyone, there’s no need to bring the f… word in this discussion.

 

 

Then adress the low pop problem.

But it won’t solve the imbalance of bringing T4 in Sector conquest nor the uselessness and redundancy of T4 in progression…

I choose this title cause it is deliberately provocative

Tier 5 is OK, that’s true. My concern is about T4 wich bring nothing interesting beetween T3 and T5.

It was first .gif I found :slight_smile:

For me your idea won’t work, basicly residente said all… We need more players not more Tier/modules changes.

 

So you remove T5 but make T4 from r11 to r15

 

what’s the difference? Stats will be the same and also the implants. Nothing but the weapon base damage will change, and that’s not a big deal…

 

Also the grind is not a problem, I fear you don’t know what does that word mean. You didn’t play enough games with true grinding to say what you’re saying, honestly.

 

The system is fine (they should fix the ship tree, role talking) we just need people and this game will run just fine.

 

my 2 cents.

^agree

 

Maybe you don’t remember how it feels to be a newcomer with no license and no DLC… Once you’ve got the payed advantage and some fleet force, yeah it’s not that hard, I have to admit it. I know what grind is (some korean MMO that are grindy as hell, I’m glad SC is not like that !)

It might only be my opinion (again) but I found it a bit slow to reach endgame. I really don’t mind grinding to upgrade my modules though. I just find it plainly useless for T4… As you can play populated and cheaper T3 or T5 in sector conquest to be competitive. There is no incentive to play t4 more than what ios necessary to unlock T5. I hope it’s only a low pop problem.

I truly find there is an issue with T4.

I remember! And it was before FleetStrength update so we all had just basic synergy income. I NEVER bought gold, just two DLCs(25$ each on sale): first when I already had one or two T5 and almost all T1-3, 2nd when I had all maxed ships and got it to have fun with DEagle therefore I don’t think that grind is long and leveling system need change.

 

If you still think that grind now is bigger than time when we(players with T5 ships) started check Updates changes. You will see that all tiers got ~20-30% synergy boost + FS(after T1 you can have like 15-20 more %)

8

Well, actually the low population is not a problem, the problem is the low density, the population is too spread out. This would be solved by increasing the population or lowering the “volume” of the game. I honestly think that T5 should have been left to 1-2 years after release. T4 is fine to have SecCon with, except if you fight against T5s. OPs suggestion wouldn’t work, because it doesn’t actually reduce the volume, just renames parts of it. But in retrospect, not releasing T5 would have been nice.

9

 

 

brock20110724-22047-utv7m1.jpg

10

Hello again pilots !

 

Hello there !

 

Welcome to Star Conflict and I am excited to know you find this game has potential. So …

 

  1. Don’t kill that potential

 

 

  1. Easing the grind

 

You have no idea how it was like. With current progress rate, some dude who plays for only 4 months can have a hangar full of Tier 5 ships with atleast 1 of them full purple. Veterans of this game can only twerk to that fantasy in the past. I just came back to this game and with only 3 days of PVE took my level 6 tier 4 engineer to level 5 tier 5 on all blues with 2 purples. Paid player? License? pshh… 50% advantage. Means my 3 days of grind is your 4.5 days. If that is a big deal, you need to reconsider your favourite genre.

 

  1. Ship rank, distribution of slots - the way it is done now is kinda weird but Devs wanted it to act as incentive for lower tiers to progress up the ship tree. Frankly I don’t care as much as some anti-phobos fans in this forum because in the end … you’ll end up flying < 5% of the ships available to you and ignoring the rest anyway. You can fly T3 ships in a T5 battle and still contribute to a team win. I don’t see ship slot assignments intra tier as a big deal.

 

Asking dev team to overhaul the game affecting the rest of the player base because you cannot deal with the grind on a personal level and make snide remarks to those who support Star Conflict by paying for stuff in this free to play game ?

 

I think I typed enough to justify this gif

tumblr_inline_n3pyp1Zmjs1suxuut.gif

11

grind for me is almost over, somehow. i just need to find a good 4th ship for my t5 lineup and then i can just screw around with all my income.

12

After reading your topic title, I was expecting to say something like “NO, you idiot”

 

After reading your post. . . . .

 

You have some really solid points! I somehow found myself thinking that this would be a positive change. This would fix a large amount of the balancing and matchmaking problems. It would fill some of the standard role holes in T3, for example, the PromX becoming T3. a lot of rank 10s have some really solid role bonuses but are overshadowed by superior rank 11-12. I like the idea of making rank 10 T3. Its a good idea. Its better than the current tier arrangement. but is it the BEST solution? I dont know. there are a lot of excess ships in T4 such as PromX and wolf 2, that could be moved into T3 and would also solve that problem.

 

As for the T4-5 merge, I think it would be great! 5 ranks of evenly matched ships would make for a much better competitive ship selection vs the current 3 ranks + 2 lower tier ranks with niche roles. A lot of rank 11-12 have epic role bonuses that would be a lot of fun if they didn’t have the 10-20% module/stat/hp disadvantage vs tier 5. rank 11-15 are already the sector conquest ranks, It would make things simpler if they were the same tier and shared equipment. Nobody wants to spend 150k loyalty on a T4 module when they can get a a T5 module for SecCon for just 30k more. this is another reason why T4 is underused and rarely played. combining them would fix this problem.

 

 

Well. I had no idea I’d be writing this. Latexldo, you have some real good points. People who posted against this probably didn’t read your entire post with an open mind. 

 

Also keep the XP and credit requirements the same. maybe even increase them. don’t shorten the grind, although that is a separate issue for discussion.

 

Edit: increased population would also fix the problem without such a radical change, but I dont see the population increasing anytime soon, unless open world pvp becomes a hit. (it might)

13

 this is another reason why T4 is underused and rarely played. combining them would fix this problem.

Well, T4 is not underused and rarely played. In fact, you can find good games and most of the time full games in T4, while in T5 is much more difficult.

14

 

It was first .gif I found :slight_smile:

For me your idea won’t work, basicly residente said all… We need more players not more Tier/modules changes.

np, I might have overreacted and take it personnal, when it was not, sorry about that.

 

Hello there !

 

Welcome to Star Conflict and I am excited to know you find this game has potential. So …

 

  1. Don’t kill that potential

 

Well, I don’t see how that would kill the potential.
 

  1. Easing the grind

 

You have no idea how it was like. With current progress rate, some dude who plays for only 4 months can have a hangar full of Tier 5 ships with atleast 1 of them full purple. Veterans of this game can only twerk to that fantasy in the past. I just came back to this game and with only 3 days of PVE took my level 6 tier 4 engineer to level 5 tier 5 on all blues with 2 purples. Paid player? License? pshh… 50% advantage. Means my 3 days of grind is your 4.5 days. If that is a big deal, you need to reconsider your favourite genre.

Easing the grind is far from my main point. But about the license, it’s much more than 50 % credit bonus when you put in the calculation the ammunition and reparation fee. if you get 100 k credit for a defeat and 200k for a victory in t5, but you die once and fly only one ship, it will cost you around 50k credit per battle. Without license, you get an average 100 k credit per battle in real gain (V:D ratio of 1). If you fly with a license in same condition (not even taking into acount premium ship that affect low tier or the DLCs permanent boni), it’s around 175k credits. I throw numbers from nowhere, just to say that the game’s mechanic make the 50% value much more than what it seems at first. If you die a lot, it can be more like a +100% in real credit income. I know, good pilots don’t die.
But that’s not a problem, players who payed deserve an advantage, and they didn’t get one that can’t be compensated by “free” players if they play more, so that’s another good point for Star Conflict dev team. But I already said I agreed with that.
 

  1. Ship rank, distribution of slots - the way it is done now is kinda weird but Devs wanted it to act as incentive for lower tiers to progress up the ship tree. Frankly I don’t care as much as some anti-phobos fans in this forum because in the end … you’ll end up flying < 5% of the ships available to you and ignoring the rest anyway. You can fly T3 ships in a T5 battle and still contribute to a team win. I don’t see ship slot assignments intra tier as a big deal.

 

Asking dev team to overhaul the game affecting the rest of the player base because you cannot deal with the grind on a personal level and make snide remarks to those who support Star Conflict by paying for stuff in this free to play game ?

That’s why I thought it might be interesting to overhaul the most played tiers to encourage the players flight more different ships. Maybe I din’t word it greatly, but that was what my idea was mainly about. I already have grind what I wanted to, and with license / DLC bonus, fleet strenght, I know that the rest will come smoothly. I just found a little something that make me think about it, but as I said, it’s far from the main point of my suggestion, don’t make all the discussion evolve around it please.

I supported the game too… Maybe not as much as you do, but I don’t think that give me the right to be mean or condescending to other players.

 

I think I typed enough to justify this gif

tumblr_inline_n3pyp1Zmjs1suxuut.gif

Seems legit after what I wrote ;)wt

Well. I had no idea I’d be writing this. Latexldo, you have some real good points. People who posted against this probably didn’t read your entire post with an open mind. 

 

Edit: increased population would also fix the problem without such a radical change, but I dont see the population increasing anytime soon, unless open world pvp becomes a hit. (it might)

Thanks for those kind words ! I hope the openworld and realease will help too ! As the game is currently still in beta, throwing away some crazy ideas can’t hurt :smiley:

15

You guys realize that T5 was not really supposed to be released until the final release of the game. But due to several factors which I cannot disclose it was pushed early.

16

You guys realize that T5 was not really supposed to be released until the final release of the game. But due to several factors which I cannot disclose it was pushed early.

 

How the hell should we realize something that is kept a secret (to those who came after the incident)? But this explains it. It’s like when reading A Song of Fire and Ice, I had a feeling after the 3rd book that all the characters are in a resting place now, there should be a couple of years skip to let Arya grow up and other stuff, and later I read that there was a skip planned indeed.

17

You guys realize that T5 was not really supposed to be released until the final release of the game. But due to several factors which I cannot disclose it was pushed early.

Well, there need to be really good reason to put it, even after release, and let the T4 lvl being utterly useless imo.

18

GoT stuff

 Hello … No spoilers please. 

19

 Hello … No spoilers please. 

The army of The North will lose but then John will let them come inside the wall  :crazy:

20

is there an ignore feature on this forum where posts by certain people cannot be seen ? omgomgomg