Then bring back the good old A1MA!
A gunship with rails or a healer with mass driver work best for me. High RoF is gud for life.
I use the turning keys myself, a bit too much to my liking because it makes you predictable. Actually the most often i use em with fast healers.
The only ship that is really really hard to hit with full rotation is the caltrop. Its small and crazy tanky. But no other ship is an issue Imo.
AND another important benefit; you can use one hand to drink, smoke or scroll the world.
G4aborg, cov ops are already powerful, giving them tackler abilities would make them op.
it was only one of the suggestions. i think others, like e.g. while you turn with turn keys, your maximum “gun effectiveness” is 60% (instead (dunno correct numbers just guessing) 100% forward, 75% side, 25% back, have 60% forwrad, 60% side, 25% back), or speed reductions over certain turnrates, to disable adaptive yoda around you, are better.
but as a secondary effect, or replacement for another secondary effect, reducing the turn rate with web for the CO would not be tackling, more a dogfighting move (to be chosen instead of other secondary bonuses), and i wouldnt exclusively only give the CO this ability, but also extend it to things like the gravibeamer. maybe through a weapon specific ammo type even (so it costs the gravi range)
given that special module secondaries become more prominent in the future, as it would only affect the peregrine then for now.
and while CO is pretty powerful now, if things change here, they will suffer most, as currently, there is no other way to play CO effectively, than not get hit at all costs, while at the same time, the oldschool dogfight covert ops, which is not killing frigates in seconds, as its fitted to intercept glass cannon and survival builds, more defensively around your team, currently cannot compete against spam of recons and ecms, so the “annoying rambo builds” just take over the gameplay and dispose of the rest of your fleet. in the past, an eagle-b would engage a kite in your own team, as having the energy field of the engi made the eagle-b superior to the kite in dogfighting, but the kite still had the power to be built in several ways, like frigate killer. Nowadays, using an eagle-b is just a hobby. finally taking down a rotating ceptor like that, takes too much effort, and the ceptor can do too much damage with too little “personal risk”.
Only a few are truly unstoppable like this, since they can switch from rotating troll mode into actual gameplay, and back, and require often too much attention, and usually a team has several players. Most rotating wonders in pub pvps however will actually not engage back in a dogfight, if you force them to, or will actually perform really bad in it. Just try. Maybe that helps getting my point. In the past, the covert ops did have a role in defense against ceptors aswell, one good defense CO could stall for time, or even dispose of a few attackers, before they did too much harm amongst the herbivores.
On the other hand, we have so many jaguars with gunship fits, that tacklers arent really effective atm. either, because they can make slower, but dont stop the dance, especially if they are busy sneaking up with bubbles. ECMs on the other hand, can stop the dance, but cant really slow. That is okay, but it is also kinda hard, since the ECM is a ceptor itself - and as oreg mentioned, adaptive yoda caltrop is the hardest in this department.
It is for me quite a question how to solve this, so I just gave suggestions 
I don’t want to nerf nor buff the CO, as it is still my favourite role, I just want it challenging and fair.
The only ship that is really really hard to hit with full rotation is the caltrop. Its small and crazy tanky. But no other ship is an issue Imo.
A rails gunship? Good luck with that!
Btw i’s not only the caltrop (that is the only ecm really whorth that “style” iirc), I didn’t named any ship just to not encourage such “style”.
But let’s say pretty much every high end recon/cov ops with 3 engine slots and rotation bonus can do that.
And Oreg once again: I’m not talking about using turn key to dodge for few seconds and avoid fire in a dogfight, which is honestly not a problem. I’m talking about constant spinning genius. Which are more effective than you think. You don’t become predictable at all, add some random key bashing and you became Neo from Matrix. Also there are not enough weapons which have enough bullet speed for hitting those.
Then bring back the good old A1MA!
Dude…
Don’t give them such ideas.
Tacklers are the one that are made for countering ceptors, IB should have more buffs on ceptors, cut AB & 20% off strafe & rotation. In addition to this they should nerf cruise in a way it is more harder to fly so ppl would not build tacklers as a bubble kill & run ships.
actually, i fly my jaguar, and many other tacklers on cruise aswell. choices are choices. i would not force anyone to change his style. I just say, it’s not so helpful as those people think. I respect tacklers who concentrate on their job, and good cruise flying needs some practice aswell. imho the real problem is that cruise should not increase your base speed, just bring the afterburn speed to the level it does atm. without any effective increase in base speed, the cruise module would not allow high speed fits which can cruise additionally at even higher speeds, and still have quite good rotation with double vernier, and would also make tackling them quite an option.
if you have like me a truly tackling fitted jaguar, the cruise just becomes a positioning tool, and you are doing your job (gauss or gravi), and incidentally, such a build is able to deal with bubble jaguars because cruise is better with ranged weapons, and you probably have just more buttons available to stop the aggro tackler. so the problem is not entirely just “cruise is bad”.
tacklers are a counter to fast-movers, especially adaptive, not just ceptors, and not only ceptors, and they are not their only counter.
People, you need to make your choice:
- killing tiny, low health ship, which can be killed with a 1-2 shell, but that is difficult to hit. Do not move the interceptor - a dead Interceptor.
For this purpose it is necessary to sacrifice the damage, but to do more velocity of the projectile, and increase precision.
- or to kill large thick hulking ships. Have to do more damage, but the low velocity of the projectile.
Many people are killing me. Gauss, phaser, another phaser, positronic gun, and much more… Kill me is especially easy to do it on taklere.
Decide that you are more important. Universal solutions are not present.
Sorry from my english).
Sadly tnx to a guide on russians forums, more people are using that “tecnique”. Which is far far from being skill related since all you need to do: is pressing 2 buttons and you will enter in a god mode that will prevent others to hits you (instead you can shoot pretty well). Since few few weapons have enough bullet speed to hit such foolish spinners.
Oc all of this applies only to 'ceptors.
Another thing that perhaps can be done is that the two keys pressed simultaneously work only for 1 second. Then the manual rotation key should not be allowed to be used for 5 seconds. It is complicated, but unless I miss something my guess will allow the use, but not abuse.
Exactly fully supporting sponge +1 to that this is cheapest trick and ruining all pvp experiences…
I am a Tackler pilot mostly, in t3 its ok no problem hit them with IB let them use what they got to break it then hit them again boom they slowed but in t5 there is more way to break tackle and also there isnt a counter of high rotation low ping pitching monster russians are all over the place in t5 (i am not whining learned how to deal with it but thats not the point) so basically if u have a low ping (below 60) make a untouchable covy but thats not problem either because using it is still requares some skills (more than regular cov ops build tbh) BUT if u combine it with that turning keys voiala u can name yourself to whatever superhero u liked at… I tried that it isnt how sponge shows it isnt just about 2 buttons either i could write my name in the space with that buttons in such inty (which is i am rubbish in the term of skills) so this is basically throwing the respect to skilled pilots out of the window… This needs to be fixed…
My idea is there must be a counter of rotation builds just like g4borg ideas but prefer it in a tackler instead of cov ops…
and btw
if you have like me a truly tackling fitted jaguar, the cruise just becomes a positioning tool, and you are doing your job (gauss or gravi), and incidentally, such a build is able to deal with bubble jaguars because cruise is better with ranged weapons, and you probably have just more buttons available to stop the aggro tackler. so the problem is not entirely just “cruise is bad”
You just read my soul there… By explainig a tackler (which is exactly way i fly them against fast and adaptive inty+gunships+bubble tacklers) u just make me find myself again Thank you master …
actually, i fly my jaguar, and many other tacklers on cruise aswell. choices are choices. i would not force anyone to change his style. I just say, it’s not so helpful as those people think. I respect tacklers who concentrate on their job, and good cruise flying needs some practice aswell. imho the real problem is that cruise should not increase your base speed, just bring the afterburn speed to the level it does atm. without any effective increase in base speed, the cruise module would not allow high speed fits which can cruise additionally at even higher speeds, and still have quite good rotation with double vernier, and would also make tackling them quite an option.
if you have like me a truly tackling fitted jaguar, the cruise just becomes a positioning tool, and you are doing your job (gauss or gravi), and incidentally, such a build is able to deal with bubble jaguars because cruise is better with ranged weapons, and you probably have just more buttons available to stop the aggro tackler. so the problem is not entirely just “cruise is bad”.
tacklers are a counter to fast-movers, especially adaptive, not just ceptors, and not only ceptors, and they are not their only counter.
I’m not saying that they should remove cruise, I’m just saying that the should add more strafe & rotation nerfs on ships that are using it. A lot of T5 games turned into insane rotating intys, hit and run bubble tacklers & camping LRF, dessy fest… Maybe a nerf on cruise + a buff on some tackler modules would change that.
I played during the afternoon for the first time in ages this week. The abuse of rotation keys to dodge is really kinda sickening. You know I had an interceptor try to take me down in my LRF for 30 seconds because he couldn’t aim for crap? My projectile speed positrons couldn’t even hit him at 2k range, since he just kept spinning around like an idiot.
I am all for better controls. Heck, I love the manual turn keys, myself. Use them all the time, regardless of the weight class I’m flying in. But they shouldn’t be a substitute for skill.
Lots of butthurt in this thread. High speed move and aim makes sense to have these kind of keys. Adaptives say hi. If you can’t hit someone then take tackler, ecm, guided missiles, and focus fire.
Right, I totally posted this 'cause I’m not able to hit anything and my butt hurt soooo much.
You totally got the point of what we are talking about.
Right, I totally posted this 'cause I’m not able to hit anything and my butt hurt soooo much.
You totally got the point of what we are talking about.
Which is far far from being skill related since all you need to do: is pressing 2 buttons and you will enter in a god mode that will prevent others to hits you (instead you can shoot pretty well). Since few few weapons have enough bullet speed to hit such foolish spinners.
Oc all of this applies only to 'ceptors.
Let me repeat: it’s not skill, just a cheap trick for people that are not able to properly fly a ceptor.
And atm it’s too damn effective without near any drawbacks.
It’s not about being able to hit ceptors? Correct me if I’m wrong but the OP sure looks like that’s your complaint.
It’s not about being able to hit ceptors? Correct me if I’m wrong but the OP sure looks like that’s your complaint.
Do you use manual turning?
Do you use manual turning?
Sometimes. Helps me fly in straight lines (less wobble) when my connection is bad or if my ship speed is over 500. Tried using it to dodge with meh results.
Pros use it better than I do.
Sometimes. Helps me fly in straight lines (less wobble) when my connection is bad or if my ship speed is over 500. Tried using it to dodge with meh results.
Pros use it better than I do.
Then pardonme for doubting your capability to fully understand what we are talking about here.
Then pardonme for doubting your capability to fully understand what we are talking about here.
Then explain it to me. The suggestion here affects others too.
Then explain it to me. The suggestion here affects others too.
thats the reeason why this topic exist… effect others