Remove manual turn keys from game OR...

Make the camera follows the ships instead of being fixed while using them (as it happens in “pro mode”). So that, at least, will prevent mindless spinners to shoot.

 

Sadly tnx to a guide on russians forums, more people are using that “tecnique”. Which is far far from being skill related since all you need to do: is pressing 2 buttons and you will enter in a god mode that will prevent others to hits you (instead you can shoot pretty well). Since few few weapons have enough bullet speed to hit such foolish spinners.

Oc all of this applies only to 'ceptors.

 

Let me repeat: it’s not skill, just a cheap trick for people that are not able to properly fly a ceptor.

And atm it’s too damn effective without near any drawbacks.

Absolutely agree

I personally don’t have anything about actual manual turning, but the camera mode during it is what makes it xxxx.

 

There is actually a debate going on ru forum partialy on this matter as well, some might be surprised, but the originator of the guide (2d place in guide contest_ru) is actually the one calling on nerfs on manual turning :))

You mean Rince? I knew about the guide since it was wrote, but i have problems with names there.

 

I’ve read that thread you talking about, i’ve took the idea of camera from there, in the beginning i was thinking about inhibit weapons at all while spinning or the use of multip. Modules. But that idea is better

yeah

I don’t get what you’re talking about. Clear it to me please? Video maybe if available?

BT9vtWHIAAAgPuE.jpg

 

Why? So you can use it too? I don’t wanna be remembered as the guy who spread this bs to the International community :stuck_out_tongue:

Btw, binding some keys you can do this:

The maneuver in the video is not 100% accurate but you 've got an idea I guess.

 

-snip-

I don’t like to play ceptors much, and I probably won’t use it. I just wanna see how it works so I can tell that someone is using it or not when I am fighting them, and understand how annoying it is.

 

EDIT: Rofl I see how annoying it is. I saw my friend doing it, asked him how, he told me about the keys. It really isn’t skills as you said.

Agreed, but this is only a problem in t5 where you can fit three verniers, and projectile weapons are not accelerated as much accordingly.

 

I thought maybe being able to fit that projectile accelerator module onto fighters might help, but that would be so OP with gauss (yeah, looking at you, gauss gunships xxxx).

 

How about: activating alternate movement keys switches off afterburners? Loss of adaptives and reduced max speed would be a good penalty in exchange for improved dodging and aim.

Now I’m feeling so bad in using it sometimes with my wolf-M…

 

Anyway, even if you make the camera follow, you can still click the free aim thing and then use the keys. 
 

Now I’m feeling so bad in using it sometimes with my wolf-M…

 

Anyway, even if you make the camera follow, you can still click the free aim thing and then use the keys. 

 

 

Sometimes is fine, but there are guys in t5 just using it permanently as soon as they come under fire.

Sometimes is fine, but there are guys in t5 just using it permanently as soon as they come under fire.

 

I don’t play t5 that much, I know I’m gonna get crushed instantly, but I get that it could be very annoying. Well, you could still use engine suppressors tacklers. It would be so fun to see them just turning around but staying still because their max speed became 150 m/s… 

I don’t play t5 that much, I know I’m gonna get crushed instantly, but I get that it could be very annoying. Well, you could still use engine suppressors tacklers. It would be so fun to see them just turning around but staying still because their max speed became 150 m/s… 

 

Nah, they just use multipurpose. Only good way is the afterburner inhibitor mod that I never know the name of. That would render my above suggestion useless for tacklers, but it would allow other ships to hit them

Johnny, Kosty this technique is in use since I started to play this game and actually even in the video you posted is still executed wrongly. Why are you suddenly complaining about it right now? Every single intie player flies using the double rotation and strafe combination  - how else they would survive on battlefield? Alex posted video how to do this with his wolf-m over a year ago.

You clearly don’t get what i’m talking about: try t5 during ru primetime, see it by yourself. There are some fits that are way more effective than a wolf-m in t3, or an eagle-b.

 

I know that in the video i’m not doing it right ( i’m not even planning to show how to properly do it tbh, I’m not that stupid).

 

Using the right fit: you can’t be hit by 90% of the weapons (not even by fast 11k+ positrons). While instead you can still fire.

It’s not skill, it’s just a trick that spoil a mechanic.

 

Alex NEVER overused that, I had many dogfights with him. Instead in r13 and above some people (number increasing) constantly do that.

Johnny, Kosty this technique is in use since I started to play this game and actually even in the video you posted is still executed wrongly. Why are you suddenly complaining about it right now? Every single intie player flies using the double rotation and strafe combination  - how else they would survive on battlefield? Alex posted video how to do this with his wolf-m over a year ago.

This is not true, concerns have been expressed about this functionality soon after T5 release, that allowed for 3x verniers. It is the same way as strafe builds or massive interceptor nerfs, or any other thing, there were plenty of examples, General population is simply to close minded to realise the full potential of things, and only start using it when their face is put into that crap. It is simply that only now that manual turning becoming a thing of a regular Joe.

In short, Manual turning is WAYYYYYY more potent than 3x Inertia stabilizers fits pre strafe nerfs, they have absolutely same behaviour, and same functionality at its core, it is just Manual turning is even easier to execute and still out do the pre nerf strafing.

The problem is that there is no real counter for this in T5, implants make sure that tacklers ES is worth nothing. If u want any chance to kill guys with these kind of tricks u need a good team and ECM to statis them… Even that want allways work coz R15 implants can debuff. So either they need to stop this or make tacklers IB stronger (stop AB, 10-15% off strafe& rotation). Maybe that would make tacklers a bit more effective in their job.

to be honest, i never had such problems with this. i mean its annoying, but gets predictible in its own sake, and aiming for it can be exercised; problem is only, while you do this, you are more vulnerable than your target.

I used those keys since forever, but only marginally, since in the past, when we had a larger population of dogfighters, and more emphasis on that in games, a lot of players were able to deal with the rotation key.

this was long time ago, things changed, weapons changed, gameplay changed.

i feel like there should be modules which inhibit rotation, and the problem is rather, that auto-aim weapons are built as alpha sniping weapons instead of dealing with escape wiggle.

which is just as bs and also requires little skill. instead they should have been more helpful for close range, or chaotic movement, maybe.

Also, I would have chosen different mechanics for rotation; I set up the same camera and keyboard movement in a demo, and added the elite recipee of max turning effectiveness on speeds around 60-80% engine power, but decreasing at full.

It works quite neat, as it gives you a choice between fast turn and fast move, if you played elite, u know what i mean (but i think in that game its just a detail, the overall experience is boring).

but with SC’s mechanic of adaptive, this won’t work well for the game.

I suggest as compromise to slightly move the camera for the rotation keys as suggested, but still keep it manageable to use the known mechanic, by doing it in a good delay,

or make the button “reduce” the effectiveness (“tire out”), so pressing the rotate key very very often or for a long time starts to decay your orbit. admittedly that needs additional variables.

in the end, since the buttons are directly moving the ship, and the camera only moves the ship by how you rotate it with the mouse, they are different controls.

so any change to this behaviour would need some work and clear perspective what you want to get out. Might even be hard without f*n up the whole feel.

still feel like the tackler could have needed abilities to stop people turning too fast wiht some kind of web. make strafing more important in escaping tackle.

even a secondary effect on web itself would be awesome for covert ops, so basicly reduce turning rate for a few secs.

another mechanic nerf could be to decrease speed on heavy rotations passively, reducing the effectiveness of circling with one key in adaptive over long time.

weapons which can partially deal with the movement are gauss, plasma and posi

weapons which can deal with it, but usually dont get them down are coil guns, eclipse

weapons which were always the choice for dogfight in this matter were pulse for the aimer, and rf for the terrorist.

the most effective weapon is the phaser, but again only if you have enough time.

i think the weapons give reduced damage on shooting sideways, maybe turning keys could also just reduce the guns effectiveness to 60% in directions it would have more in this mode. might also be a fix.

G4aborg, cov ops are already powerful, giving them tackler abilities would make them op. 

 

Also, do you ever use lasers? I think they could partially solve the issue.

Laser can barely scratch them. 

Laser can barely scratch them. True, and gravi does nothing…