Recruitment of active GMs (Discussion)

Please stay on topic. Discussion of general traits and behaviour of GMs as a whole is appreciated, as the feedback can always be used, but I encourage comments and complaints directed at individual GMs be sent via private messages. May I also take this moment to remind players that how a GM chooses to play the game should not affect his or her duties as a GM.

I am merely saying that my first impression of EvilTactician was changed when he made that comment in that way. I felt that ONE comment was written in a way that was not of GM quality. For him to completely deny my presence and then say this is odd because I am not in the same Tier I feel is trying to say to everyone that I am a liar. It also tells me that he said something that was not true. A simple “I do not remember you” would suffice in a case like this. Sorry if I was not clear. I was trying to be as nice as I could while relaying my concerns.

 

Please do note that it was you who initiated this conversation in-game with a direct attack on my person and play style. I have a rather thick skin, but at the same time this confused me a little as at that point I had no idea who you were. My reply stands though - I do indeed normally fly interceptors and as such the accusation in regards to ‘frigate camping’ obviously surprised me.

I do indeed have a Styx and fly it when and where the team set-up requires it, or if I believe it will turn the tide of a battle. As my usual squad mates will be able to tell you - I would never select this ship other than as a last resort as I am much better in the cockpit of something that moves a little faster.

If you feel offended by the fact I drew the conclusion from your profile that to that point the majority of your matches had been in the lower tiers - then I apologise but you could just as easily have send me a whisper or even replied in chat and clarified that you’re flying tier-3 and had met me in combat the day before. I wouldn’t have remembered that I flew against you in battle even if I would have known you for years, the point at which this conversation was initiated was my 15th consecutive hour ‘on duty’, and I didn’t log off for another 3,5 hours after that. I cannot remember every person I meet in every battle, and despite popular belief I am only human! :wink: Don’t let the abbreviation of my nickname “ET” be any indication otherwise :).

That said, you shouldn’t be ‘purposefully aggravating’ or ‘baiting’ other users in the chat, GMs included.

 

I recognize in any job the way we improve is by feedback. If I didn’t have someone telling me I was doing something wrong I wouldn’t be like I am today. I was doing the same by saying the way EvilTactician handled me was something I will remember because of the fact I did take some offense. The reason I did not take more offense is because I know it is the internet and I can’t get worked up over it. Did I clarify?

I’m very happy to receive feedback on any and all of my actions. In fact, I welcome it. At the same time though - the feedback needs to be both honest, in context and accurate. It also initially needs to be done through the private message system as posting something like this in public makes it seem like your intention was more to throw mud rather than provide constructive feedback. It also tends to attract and feed trolls and often quickly derails into something rather unproductive.

In this context, you were purposefully baiting or attempting to offend me in public by criticising my in-combat play style - and the reaction you received back was perfectly amicable and polite. Bear in mind also that if you comment on any GM their play style or actions during combat, they will respond as a player - because ultimately, that’s what most of the GMs are: fellow players. The conversation in question had nothing to do with being a GM whatsoever.

If you’d like to discuss this further, please send me a PM. I’m happy to show you the exact log of our conversation to clarify this matter and put it to rest.

 I do indeed have a Styx and fly it when and where the team set-up requires it, or if I believe it will turn the tide of a battle. As my usual squad mates will be able to tell you - I would never select this ship other than as a last resort as I am much better in the cockpit of something that moves a little faster.

You Styx pilots are all scaredy-cats. =P

 

Fed Engies or no deal.

I’m very happy to receive feedback on any and all of my actions. In fact, I welcome it.

 

you need to stop trollin nubs in-game

 

in-fact I have half a mind starting a request thread asking for all GM’s to gimp their DSR down to 1200 max.

to moderate the masses you must be one with the masses … and that includes flying thrash ships atleast 2 hours per day and gift yourself in-front of the enemy spawn every Combat Recon matches.

 

[edit]

 

Tealc exempted coz he’s my boss.

 

[edit-2]

 

wait … he does all that already AHHAHAHAHAAHAH

and gift yourself in-front of the enemy spawn

I lol’ed so hard

Competitive trash talk in the chat is vital to keeping players active. Excessive Moderation of that will kill that interest to keep players active.

And is the reason alot of are posting here.

We like the game but the politics is forcing a lot of us away. The reason this games seems to struggle to keep 2,000 players.

Most of the players on now are new guys. Many of the veterans get tired of the moderation and move on to something different.

 

Auto moderation the way I proposed in a different thread is a better way. To bad that topic was deleted.

EvilTactician… Again I was merely joking. This is why I said when you ask anyone about me they say I am neutral or an xxxx (this word will be censored). When I get off work that is what I do… I relax. I vent myself by playing and occasionally joking around. I did reply by saying in Global that I did fight you a few days ago. After that I dropped the subject and left it as a memory. I apologize then. I am new and had no idea to PM you. Keep in mind my gaming experience (and beta testing) is a 14 year long history. I can only recall of two games in those 14 years where GM’s had direct contact. One of them was Everquest 1 where I was a beta tester. This should give you an idea of how long it has been since I have seen something like this. I will note to direct my concerns through PM though.

I will say that this discussion did spark an idea so there is a positive to this. Perhaps you can make it known that you all talk to players. Think of a way to reach out to the community. Perhaps a scheduled Teamspeak meet up through that server you all have for the community? Get the GM’s together and talk to the community? It would let players like me who are new and use to the idea that GM’s don’t talk to players, that you do talk.

Perhaps this can be an un-official requirement to look for in recruiting. See if they are willing to be on Teamspeak at certain times or something.

Last but, not least I am done. For the record I was not trolling and had no intentions to. The response I gave here on the forums was probally the most polite and well written out response I have given in a long time. I was in a good mood when I wrote that. I was VERY careful too. I ended up editting it at least a dozen times.

Perhaps this can be an un-official requirement to look for in recruiting. See if they are willing to be on Teamspeak at certain times or something.

Last but, not least I am done. For the record I was not trolling and had no intentions to.

(shortened quote to keep the topic a little more tidy)

It’s all good, don’t worry about it. :slight_smile:

I have a similar gaming history, albeit a bit longer than 14 years. (I was a GM already in 1997 and started ‘proper’ online gaming several years before that.) Since then I’ve both worked (paid) and volunteered as GM and Admin in a range of both subscription-based and free to play titles.

I’ve got the opposite experience - I cannot recall many games where GMs didn’t have direct contact with players. That said, since I was one of those GMs most of the time, my perception will be very different from your experience throughout the years and you are right that the vast majority of players in many games simply never need to deal with a GM. They only tend to step in when people need help or did something wrong and generally speaking most players just go peacefully on with their own business.

For example, in Ultima Online it was reasonably rare for a GM to ‘appear’ to players and engage in a conversation, but we actually did it all the time. It’s just that with a limited number of GMs vs a quarter of a million players, the average player didn’t experience this very often.

Star Conflict is of course a bit different in this regard, due to being a lobby-based game with a global chat which reaches pretty much everyone simultaneously. This also puts GMs very much in the open, with their actions being observed by the entire player base at once.

One thing I would note to everyone reading this. It’s very easy to have a bad experience or dislike of a specific person, be it a player in a corporation, of a specific native origin or even a GM. This doesn’t make all other people from the same group equal to that experience. Never judge an entire group by the actions of one or two individuals - rather give the rest a fair chance and judge them by their own merit.

In regards to Teamspeak - this is good feedback. We actually do already ensure all GMs have access to teamspeak as we frequently hold discussions among the team - not only through text-based mediums but also by speaking. The latter is always vastly more effective. I’ll bring up the idea of organising a ‘meet the GMs’ session.

Meanwhile, if you have a desire to get to know some of the GMs - many of us regularly hang out on Teamspeak. We’re just regular people like anyone else and depending on your personality you’ll like some of us and you wont get on as well with others. There’s a diverse set of backgrounds, cultures and native languages - but generally speaking we’re just a bunch of nice folk trying to do our part for the community.

And isn’t that ultimately what everyone using these forums should be interested in? We’re all part of this community, so lets all work together to make it as nice a place as possible to spend your leisure time.

calling everyone on global little children who need punishment. 

 

anyone that is not a teenager anymore and reads global for more than 2 minutes will fry his brain.

 

can’t be enough punishment in global. i’d even suggest a proper inquisition.

I’d like to say I think these discussions have been very productive and I appreciate the input from all sides. I’ve already made my main statement earlier and don’t think I need to reiterate it any further. Thank you for reading it.

 

On another note, I think the majority of these problems could be solved by returning the GM role to a silent one. By this, I mean GMs would be anonymous and the GM tag removed.  This would solve several problems:

  • The role of being a GM will be more respectable as no one will pinpoint any action to a specific person, all action will be done “in the background”.
  • The image of a GM won’t seem like someone seeking attention. What I mean by this, is that being a GM won’t be something for a player to apply for just so they get the little [GM] tag by their name. 
  • When a GM helps a user in the chat, it would seem like the regular community is responding. This may even push other players to assist, rather than wait for a [GM] response.
  • GM action in chat won’t be so noticeable, they can play the game as part of the group.
  • GM also won’t feel “required” to regulate the slightest mishap in Global Chat. What I mean by this, is that if a player accidentally curses in Global, it’s no big deal, but if a GM is online and others see it, the GM may feel required to act on it which generally just causes a bad experience. Accidents happen, let it go. 
  • GMs won’t be targeted in Global Chat discussions. I’ve seen this happen a few times, and just the presence of [GM] can influence the chat negatively (in the form of trolling). 

 

Now, to address the issue that by removing it may hamper the GM’s ability to warn a user. I think that could be solved by having an inbuilt “warning” option within the Chat when you right click a name - available to GM only. This could send a red PM to the user (anonymously or through a generic name) and issue the message. This way, a GM can send a warning to a user and type “Please be more respectful in chat” or whichever message they want, without giving away their name.

 

For tracking purposes, each GM could have a code assigned to them which may be indicated in the message, to prevent abuse. Additionally, there could be an internal log on the server kept for each user regarding the warnings they have received. This way a GM can track how often a user has received a warning. I don’t believe there should be a limitation on this, it is just an information reference.

By this, I mean GMs would be anonymous and the GM tag removed.

  • No one will pinpoint any action to a specific person, all action will be done “in the background”.

 

This is the only point I strongly disagree with. When a person is given a position of elevated status and power - the [GM] tag and the ability to mute players - they should be watched more closely, rather than not at all. Citing a story that made national headlines in America in late July, this calls to mind the story of those two Detroit cops who openly robbed citizens at gunpoint. Can you imagine how much longer this could have continued if they had truly been completely anonymous? It’s awful to think that this - as is alleged by a few Detroit citizens - wasn’t even the first time that Detroit cops have wrongfully robbed citizens in broad daylight.

 

“People being given total authority, deadly weapons and very little accountability? I can’t believe this happened as a result,” some have said. I’m glad they were caught, and I’m glad that sometimes, when there’s enough evidence, people are held responsible for their actions. When there’s a [GM] tag next to a moderator’s name, it should help remind them of the role they’re meant to fill - that they’re supposed to try to be helpful and set a good example for other players. Not demand that players be respectful, then be disrespectful to players at their leisure. Not mute players over the slightest offense, even genuine mistakes, while letting the power of anonymity/not being able to be held accountable for their actions go to their head. Taking away that reminder of the good person they’re supposed to be would only make this particular problem worse.

 

However, I agree with everything else you said, particularly the part about the implementation of a tracking system when it comes to how GMs are treating people.

I’d like to say I think these discussions have been very productive and I appreciate the input from all sides. I’ve already made my main statement earlier and don’t think I need to reiterate it any further. Thank you for reading it.

 

On another note, I think the majority of these problems could be solved by returning the GM role to a silent one. By this, I mean GMs would be anonymous and the GM tag removed.

I’m very glad to hear that you find the discussion productive. Unlike some people would like others to believe, we’re actually very happy with the feedback and all your suggestions.

For now, I would like to explain for a moment what the [GM] tag is for, and why it’s not a good idea to remove it. The user who posted right before me has also touched on this subject.

  1. Recognition
  2. Accountability
  3. Transparancy

Whenever you as a player interact with a GM - you want to be sure that the person you interact with is actually a GM. Equally, it forces these people to behave in a manner which fits the role - as well as providing a recognised point for new users to ask questions and be fairly confident that the answers will be correct.

GMs first and foremost are there to help the players and the community. Their primary duty is not to punish, it is to help. Speaking for me personally, the best evenings as a GM in the game are the days when I don’t need to punish anyone at all and can focus purely on answering some questions or even actively flying with some new players to explain them how to achieve their goals or the objectives of the game mode.

 

However, I agree with everything else you said, particularly the part about the implementation of a tracking system when it comes to how GMs are treating people.

Despite belief or statements from users to the contrary, there are systems in place that ensure players are treated fairly and that GMs don’t step ‘out of line’. In addition, there is a process in place that allows you to appeal any punishment.

[You can find this here](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/8918-chat-amnesties/).

I do wish to point out that a lot of the public complaints you might encounter come from people who broke the rules. Not once, or even twice but sometimes over 50 times or more. With such people we are (a lot) ‘stricter’ than with people who’ve never done anything wrong.

And if you do end up breaking the rules by genuine mistake or had no ill intentions, simply send the GM in question a polite message explaining this. 90% of the time they’ll have a look at your history, notice that you have absolutely no history of poor behaviour and will remove the punishment.

Ultimatetely a 1-hour mute is more a warning than anything else and if you are honest, friendly and understanding about this, then the mute already did it’s job and is no longer necessary.

If a user however starts abusing a GM about the punishment and engages in rude, disrespectful or otherwise abusive behaviour - then they are more than justified to leave the mute in place, or depending on the level of abuse, even increase it.

Despite belief or statements from users to the contrary, there are systems in place that ensure players are treated fairly and that GMs don’t step ‘out of line’. In addition, there is a process in place that allows you to appeal any punishment.

[You can find this here](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/8918-chat-amnesties/).

You said there are systems, plural, in place that ensure players are treated fairly and that GMs don’t step out of line. You said that the appeal process is an addition to them. What two or more systems is the appeals process an addition to? When it comes to GMs openly being rude and never being held accountable for it, but players being held accountable for being rude - or misinterpreted as being rude - the only system that comes to mind is the appeals process you’ve mentioned. But damage control after overzealousness isn’t as good as the prevention of overzealousness, in my opinion.

The problem here is basic human nature and the personalities of individuals. Being given the [GM] tag doesn’t transform a person into a shining beacon of morality - it reminds them that that’s what they’re expected to be, but in the end, they still have the same personality they had prior to receiving it. They’re still the same person. And if that person occasionally chooses to be rude and passive aggressive toward players, the only difference between that GM and others is that the GM will go unpunished for it every time - at least in this game, from what I’ve personally witnessed.

 

I do wish to point out that a lot of the public complaints you might encounter come from people who broke the rules. Not once, or even twice but sometimes over 50 times or more. With such people we are (a lot) ‘stricter’ than with people who’ve never done anything wrong.

As someone who has yet to break a single rule in-game - only question them - I have many complaints, though most of them would be inappropriate to voice here, since they’re related to game mechanics. As for people breaking rules literally more than 50 times… If they’re such insanely flagrant violators, why are they allowed to continue breaking them, when their history shows they’ve broken them more than 50 times? Isn’t there an option to mute such extremely excessive offenders for weeks or even months at a time, to drastically slow down the rate at which they break the rules?

But I’m getting off the original point I wished to make here. I recently invited a friend of mine to play this game. He reluctantly accepted. We had a discussion about how difficult round 2 of T1 PvE is for people with only T1 ships. For our first several matches, he strongly disagreed with me - “You’re wrong, look at how easily we’re winning!” I kept reminding him, “Look at the fact that I’m using a T3 ship to make this much, much easier for all of us, and the fact that I keep getting as many points as all 3 of you, (Him and 2 random teammates), put together.” It wasn’t until I let him put it to the test by temporarily leaving the squad that he realized I was right. Every time he was paired up with 3 random teammates, instead of me and 2 random teammates, they either lost on round 2 or round 1 every time.

This eventually led to him PMing me, “No one attacks the nav station,” then saying in global chat, “[2 rude words here, meant to be sent to me in a private message.]” In response to, “No one attacks the nav station,” I replied, “Told ya :)” since that’s what I’d been trying to convince him all along. Then I saw that he accidentally typed that 2nd message in global chat, rather than in a PM to me. I immediately recognized that, without my intervention, he would be muted, so I came to his defense, saying, “It’s alright, he meant to say that in a whisper to me,” and, “He wasn’t saying that to you folks, carry on.” Without even noticing that anything had gone wrong, that friend sent me a PM saying, “I almost soloed it with an attack ship.” A GM then replied, “language [their name here] - you can sit in the naughty corner for a while”

Despite me clarifying that it was not my friend’s intention for anyone to see foul language, he was immediately punished anyway. This is a classic, everyday example of many GMs being too trigger-happy. After explaining in global chat that it was not my friend’s intention to swear at anyone other than me, privately, to express his frustrations to me alone, I was prepared to explain to him that swearing in global chat is an offense that can earn you hour, day or even week long mutes. I never had that opportunity, since that GM forced that lesson on my friend via a punishment, rather than waiting a few seconds, realizing the problem was over, realizing that I was handling it and that it wouldn’t happen again.

Now, it won’t happen again. Not because he’ll be more careful in the future, but because he, like tens of thousands of others, has quit this game, one of the contributing factors being that all players who aren’t GMs are treated like children in elementary school. But at least there, you actually *do* get a warning first, not a punishment, whenever you accidentally break a rule.

He was a first time offender. It was 2 words. He wasn’t argumentative about it - not that there was anything for him to argue, (Nor is contesting the grounds of a decision a punishable offense anyway), since he spoke 2 words, and was almost immediately muted for it with no chance to speak for himself. He had a 3rd party come to his defense just before the mute, explaining that it was an honest mistake that wouldn’t happen again. A trigger-happy GM muted him anyway, and now the community has permanently lost another player. And some people somehow continue to wonder why the playerbase is dwindling.

 

And if you do end up breaking the rules by genuine mistake or had no ill intentions, simply send the GM in question a polite message explaining this.

When a stranger someone has never met before introduces themself by punching the other person in the face, the victim doesn’t start writing out a polite inquiry to ask why their aggressor did it. That’s downright insane and counter-intuitive. In the real world, people react by getting mad. Their emotions take over and the situation gets worse. That’s human nature. When someone feels like they’ve been personally targeted and attacked for either no reason at all or a very flimsy, unwarranted reason, they tend to get up in arms. Again: this is basic, common sense human nature.

Is it the victim’s fault for not asking why they were punched in the face? No. It’s the aggressor’s fault for resorting to punching people in the face, rather than talking things out, and on top of that, having the gall to say, “This was just a warning. If I were actually punishing you, I would’ve punched you in the face 24 times instead of just 1 time. Let this be a lesson to you.”

Prevention of a problem - the problem being that there are GMs who are overly touchy - is better than damage control after it - accepting the fact that they’re touchy, then letting the players who have been punished, most of whom are new and unfamiliar with the rules, sort out what to do, when they feel they’ve been unjustly punished. If I was confronted and punished by someone who is extremely unreasonable and punishes people at the drop of a hat, the last thing I’d want to do is try reasoning with them. What’s the point, when they’ve already proved that they’re unreasonable people who punish first, ask questions later? As a victim in this hypothetical situation who either believes or knows for a fact that I did nothing wrong, anything I say would only make the situation worse - I would continue saying things I either believe or know for a fact are the truth and not wrong in any way.

It’s like the slang definition of insanity: doing the same thing again and again and again, but expecting different results every time. Step 1: Be yourself in a normal, polite way. Step 2: Be punished for it, because you used a swear word, even though it wasn’t in a cursing context, but a polite one. Step 3, as you are recommending: Be yourself in a normal, polite way. You’re asking someone to be reasonable, when being reasonable is what got them punished in the first place.

 

Ultimatetely a 1-hour mute is more a warning than anything else

A warning is a warning. A mute is a punishment. Here, this is an example of a warning.

Player in global chat: [Curse word], I can’t believe we lost so close to the end

GM: Please don’t swear in global chat, even though there’s a profanity filter which is on by default, which must be intentionally disabled to opt in to see profanity

Player: Whoops, sorry, I thought I was still in my 4 player PvE squad chat with 3 friends; it was the very end of the match where, for a few seconds, whatever you say still shows up in that 4 player chat instead of global, but I guess I was a few seconds too slow, so it showed up in global instead

GM: It’s okay :slight_smile: I hope you win your next match!

Heck, not only is that a warning, it ends it on a polite, reassuring note that chooses to keep that player happy, instead of putting them in a bad mood giving them a sour impression of this game’s community. The following is a punishment.

Player in global chat: [Curse word], I can’t believe we lost so close to the end

GM: language Player - you can sit in the naughty corner for a while *Punishes Player by muting them*

To further drive my point home, it’s a simple matter of looking at it objectively. Here are some examples of this:

“It’s not doing chores if you only have to do them for 2 hours!”

“It’s not driving if you only drove 10 miles!”

“It’s not exercising if you only did 50 pushups!”

Etc, etc, etc. The degree to which you do something does not have an impact on whether or not you did it. It doesn’t matter if you did chores for 2 hours or 16 hours straight; you still did chores in both cases. It doesn’t matter if you drove for 10 miles or 100 miles; you still drove in both cases. It doesn’t matter if you did 50 pushups or 500 pushups in a row; you still exercised in both cases. My point being that it doesn’t matter if you mute someone for 1 hour or 12 hours; you still punished them in both cases.

 

Ultimatetely a 1-hour mute is more a warning than anything else and if you are honest, friendly and understanding about this, then the mute already did it’s job and is no longer necessary.

This ties in with one of the points I made above:

When a stranger someone has never met before introduces themself by punching the other person in the face, the victim doesn’t start writing out a polite inquiry to ask why their aggressor did it. That’s downright insane and counter-intuitive. In the real world, people react by getting mad. Their emotions take over and the situation gets worse. That’s human nature. When someone feels like they’ve been personally targeted and attacked for either no reason at all or a very flimsy, unwarranted reason, they tend to get up in arms. Again: this is basic, common sense human nature.

Is it the victim’s fault for not asking why they were punched in the face? No. It’s the aggressor’s fault for resorting to punching people in the face, rather than talking things out, and on top of that, having the gall to say, “This was just a warning. If I were actually punishing you, I would’ve punched you in the face 24 times instead of just 1 time. Let this be a lesson to you.”

It’s unreasonable to expect that, by punishing a player who then feels personally wronged, (Either that they literally did nothing wrong, or they did do something wrong, but that the punishment was far too severe when a warning would have sufficed. The exact reason why there are different punishments for different crimes; some crimes are worse than others, which necessitates harsher punishments for crueler crimes), they would immediately do an emotional 180 and be happy/friendly about it. Sure, there are some cases where people would go, “Oh, whoops, yeah; I totally deserved to be muted for that!” and other cases where people would go, “Huh…? Is… Is this a JOKE? Was I seriously just muted over this inconsequential little thing that’s completely normal everywhere else in the world and on the internet???” but give 'em a few minutes, hours or days, and eventually, they might change their mind and think that they deserved to be punished.

But for everyone else, and for the people in that 2nd example before they eventually change their mind and think that they deserved to be punished, it feels like a personal attack - “I was singled out and muted for no reason, or what I feel is an extremely flimsy reason, and there’s a 90% or higher chance I had no idea that I was even doing anything wrong, since occasionally using words that are called “curse words” is completely normal and acceptable in the real world, as long as they’re not directed at others to insult them. Why should I continue hanging out in this kindergarten community with metaphorical “teachers” who are downright rabid in their literal interpretation and enforcement of the rules via punishments rather than talking to people about the problems - AKA, giving warnings and spreading knowledge of the rules instead of just immediately punishing people for them? I’ve got a backlog of games to play anyway, and as far as multiplayer communities go, I know from years of personal experience that I can do better than this almost anywhere else. Cya.”

 

If a user however starts abusing a GM about the punishment and engages in rude, disrespectful or otherwise abusive behaviour - then they are more than justified to leave the mute in place, or depending on the level of abuse, even increase it.

Again, the first part of the sentence ties in with my absolute most recent points - that if you force someone to feel like you’re attacking them against their will, you should expect them to retaliate. But for the rest of this: relying on the possibility of retroactive justification which may not come true is wrong. This is the very definition of metaphorically “shooting first, asking questions later.” “It’s okay if we punish someone, because if they PM us and they’re rude to us about it, why, that justifies why we punished them; that proves they were bad people, not that they’re actually good people who are just in a bad mood due to our actions toward them!”

People who believe this need to think again. They’re not psychic. They don’t have the ability to see into the future and punish someone based on an action that person may or may not perform. It’s extremely inappropriate to punish someone and say, “It’s okay that I punished them, because they MIGHT have done something worse if I hadn’t,” and equally inappropriate to say, “See?! I punished them, they feel personally attacked, and now they’re cursing at me: I KNEW they were a bad person who deserved to be punished all along, and this proves it!” This is reminiscent of an episode of a show where a basis for one of the sub-plots is this very point. Characters were trying to come up with an antidote for - and figure out the cause of - what they believed was a “rage virus.” They tested out their theory behind the cause on a group of monkeys. Whenever a character would intentionally abuse the monkeys, the monkeys would react normally by getting upset. The humans would then go, “Oh my god, they’re out of control - they must be infected with the rage virus!! Kill them!!” and shoot them in the head. “See? It’s a good thing we tied them up and abused them - their going wild with rage after we abused them justified us tying them up, and then shooting them afterward!”

Obviously, this was all sarcasm - a parody - to demonstrate the immense flaws in such thinking.

To further drive this point home, it’s a simple matter of looking at it objectively. Here are some examples of this:

“It’s okay that I kicked this puppy as hard as I could! Maybe, uhh… Maybe someone, somehow, will find evidence to support that this was the right thing to do? Haha, who knows.”

“It’s okay that I pushed this complete stranger off a bridge, and I don’t even know if the guy survived the fall or not! Maybe he was a really bad person. I guess we’ll find out if he’s still alive, comes back up here and acts like a jerk to me. If he starts calling me rude names and wanting to physically attack me, that’ll prove it was okay for me to push him off the bridge! And that my actions in no way whatsoever had any influece on his actions or temperament.”

“It’s okay that I’m a soldier in the middle of a war who just shot and killed a little boy. Maybe he had a bomb or some other deadly weapon on him…! What’s that? You say he didn’t? Well, uhh… Huh. That’s a shame. Oh well, you win some, you lose some; the next time this happens, maybe they’ll have a deadly weapon. Now, I’m going to continue treating people this way, and reacting the same way every time this happens. If they don’t have a deadly weapon: oh well, I was justified for punishing/killing them. If they do have one: I was extra justified!”

I can’t stress this enough: relying on the possibility of retroactive justification which may not come true is wrong. Choosing to punish someone at the drop of a hat, then citing, “Huh, they’re mad at me; this proves they deserved to be punished!” proves only that the person who believes this is an extremely poor judge of character who doesn’t deserve to be in a position of power where they can abuse it. Don’t punish first, then ask questions later or not at all. Speaking from years of experience moderating and administrating everything from knockoff private servers of popular MMOs 10 years ago to Minecraft servers in the recent past, including hosting my own when I can afford to: the best policy for dealing with people who are breaking the rules is to explain to them that what they’re doing is wrong.

9 times out of 10, they have no idea, apologize for it, it doesn’t happen again, and they’re relieved to see that the server in question is run by someone reasonable who didn’t just mute them for rule-breaking, the way I’ve seen GMs do in Star Conflict. 1 time out 10, they’ll explicitly say they know what they did was wrong, say something along the lines of, “u mad???” maybe while using a macro to spam it 10+ times per second, and literally demand that you ban them. That’s the sort of case where it’s reasonable to punish them. Not for any little misstep. This has got to stop, and the GMs are the ones, as individual human beings, who need to own up to their actions, recognize that sometimes - not all the time, obviously, but sometimes - what they’re doing is downright wrong. Admitting it is the first step. Until a problem is acknowledged as one, it’s darn near impossible to rectify it, and maintained as the status quo instead.

That wall of text.

 

Guys, writing shorter is an art too.

 

Wish you luck with that, Tactic.

There’s a lot to be said about some subjects, these in particular. Paraphrasing someone else: “There are times when men of good conscience cannot blindly follow [the status quo].” Also relevant is the “First they came” poem. I may not be a rule breaker, but you don’t have to be one to stand up for the right things and against the wrong things.

Welp Evil. you have your work cut out for you now. A warning should be a quick 5 minute mute. I wonder if they can add that. Debarcherys comment had alot of merit and thought out facts. I liked it. 

A warning is a warning. A mute is a punishment. Here, this is an example of a warning.

Player in global chat: [Curse word], I can’t believe we lost so close to the end

GM: Please don’t swear in global chat, even though there’s a profanity filter which is on by default, which must be intentionally disabled to opt in to see profanity

Player: Whoops, sorry, I thought I was still in my 4 player PvE squad chat with 3 friends; it was the very end of the match where, for a few seconds, whatever you say still shows up in that 4 player chat instead of global, but I guess I was a few seconds too slow, so it showed up in global instead

GM: It’s okay :slight_smile: I hope you win your next match!

Heck, not only is that a warning, it ends it on a polite, reassuring note that chooses to keep that player happy, instead of putting them in a bad mood giving them a sour impression of this game’s community. The following is a punishment.

Player in global chat: [Curse word], I can’t believe we lost so close to the end

GM: language Player - you can sit in the naughty corner for a while *Punishes Player by muting them*

To further drive my point home, it’s a simple matter of looking at it objectively. Here are some examples of this:

“It’s not doing chores if you only have to do them for 2 hours!”

“It’s not driving if you only drove 10 miles!”

“It’s not exercising if you only did 50 push ups!”

Etc, etc, etc. The degree to which you do something does not have an impact on whether or not you did it. It doesn’t matter if you did chores for 2 hours or 16 hours straight; you still did chores in both cases. It doesn’t matter if you drove for 10 miles or 100 miles; you still drove in both cases. It doesn’t matter if you did 50 push ups or 500 push ups in a row; you still exercised in both cases. My point being that it doesn’t matter if you mute someone for 1 hour or 12 hours; you still punished them in both cases.

 

I would like to add to this that i agree it would be nice to warn every person like this but we are normal dealing with 10 to 15 ppl at a time and just dont have the time to warn every person every 2 seconds.

also on this statement as you said weather you did 50 push ups or 500 push ups you still did them to this i add weather you accidental swore in global on deliberately swore in global you still swore in global there for you should still be punished.

real life example if you are running a red light in your car you get a fine in the mail. weather you ran it because you did not see it and it was an accident or weather you did it intentionally you still get the fine.

 

I try to be as nice as i can to all people i come across in my position but like in real life no matter how nice you are nobody like to be told off or told what to do or punished so no matter how nice you are about it it is alway the bad police officer or the bad judge or the bad school teacher or the bad GM in this case that told you off it is never the the fault of the person this is human nature people rarely see fault in there own actions. 

 

 

 

There’s a lot to be said about some subjects, these in particular. Paraphrasing someone else: “There are times when men of good conscience cannot blindly follow [the status quo].” Also relevant is the “First they came” poem. I may not be a rule breaker, but you don’t have to be one to stand up for the right things and against the wrong things.

 

This is an insult against the true meaning of that phrase. That phrase is coined for real issues, real oppression and fight against evil (like stuff going in countries where people die), and not “kid things” like internet moderation ban.

 

Disgusting, in my humble opinion.

They’re still the same person. And if that person occasionally chooses to be rude and passive aggressive toward players, the only difference between that GM and others is that the GM will go unpunished for it every time - at least in this game, from what I’ve personally witnessed.

GMs have to follow the same rules a normal player has. If you feel offended by a GM or see one of them breaking the game rules you can always report them like a normal player or contact me her on the forum via pm.

A chat violation is a chat violation, its why I don’t violate… I would hate to have to mute myself. Now in PM’s or Corp, that is a different story. When in global, its normally easy enough to tell an accidental swear from an intentional one, and if it seems like an accident, I will just give a blanket warning “guys, keep chat clean” rather than point fingers at anyone in particular for swearing, as pointing fingers will get that person most likely to respond in a negative manner. Most people just reply to my blanket warnings with a sorry or I have even got responses along the lines of thanks for not pointing me out in chat. 

 

Its rare, but I also lift mutes, if the person contacts me in a polite constructive manner and says it was an accident. I don’t always do it, but I do sometimes, it depends really on the situation and how it came about. 

 

So please, be conscious of what you say. If you insult or looks like your insulting another player, swear, use racist remarks, spam, or stab a clown… you may be muted. I am generally on at night 9 pm central US to 12-1 am central US. If you have questions or want to know why you are muted, add me to your follow list and when I am on feel free to ask. Or even send me a mail in game if your not on at those times and I will be happy to reply. 

 

Some nights I have to chain mute people, other nights like tonight… Not a single one, just a few blanket warnings and everything was good. If I am on, I am always willing to help out. Though please understand that I do AFK sometimes, and I am a player as well as a Moderator, so if I do not respond right away, send a mail or check the follow tab to see if I am in a match. 

 

We have an awesome community here overall… There are some that are better, some are worse, but it all averages out to the folks I interact with in general people good individuals. I am proud to moderate for Star Conflict and for you folks out there.