Maybe only give points for kills around objectives? That way all the fighting occurs around the objective. The easiest way to fix this though, is to have a standard death match and team death match.
There are already increased point rewards for making kills related to objectives Stryker, as such I don’t think that is necessary.
Killing people unrelated to the objective every now and again I’m fine with. It’s when people outright ignore the objective and get kill greedy that things start to slip up. EG: Instead of attacking the lone bomb carrier, they instead go after the bundle of enemies elsewhere because they want some awesome dogfights. And y’know what? I do too sometimes, but it becomes cringe inducing when we lose incredibly fast because the same guy is able to drop the bomb on all three of our beacons with no resistence.
Team Deathmatch or a Free-for-all deathmatch mode would be lovely, and the ability to blacklist certain maps and modes when queueing to fight would be even better. That way the people who want to play objectives can do just that, whilst the people with a red haze over their eyes who just went the l33t killz can go spam deathmatch over and over. Everyone’s happy.
There are already increased point rewards for making kills related to objectives Stryker, as such I don’t think that is necessary.
True, but if we were to give points to kills made only around objectives, then everyone has to fight around them.Still, I definitely think adding a TDM mode is the best way to do this.
I stopped reading there. I don’t think you’re in a position to be bashing his logic.
You’ve added nothing of worth and shown no reason why my point doesn’t stand. I gave examples based on the game modes and alternatives while you give a single sentence based on nothing. The whole game is about killing other players alongside the objectives so by saying someone else doesn’t play it the way someone else wants is irrational and devoid of logic.
But Judgemint, what happeneds if a team abandons the bomb altogether and goes around chasing random people in groups of 3 and 4 just to get some kills, completely ignoring their objective? What if a team keeps clashing in battle at a heavily defended beacon because they want to fight, instead of going for the weakly defended beacon on the other side of the map? What if the captain is left completely alone because his team decided it would rather go for kills then focus on defending their captain? I will give you an example: I recently played several detonation matches where I was put into the team of a squad of a corporation which shall remain unnamed. What they did instead of pursuing the objective, was to make sure they could grab both bombs with frigates, by either killing enemies in full force or letting their teammates with bombs die, and then withdrew into a well defendable position. From there they started to farm kills on anyone who would try to get the bombs back. As they positioned themselves very close to my own teams beacon, we couldn’t allow them to loose those bombs, thus forcing us to defend them. This resulted in Detonation matches ending in a timeout with all stations intact and one side racking up to 70 kills, with the majority being of course with the people who hogged the bombs since they were the ones being constantly targeted. This in turn led to ridiculous amounts of point for them and made sure their corpmates were in positions 1-4 and their team won. Now this would normally sound good, I mean our team won but let’s analyze what happened:
a) They let people who actually tried to fulfill the objective of the game completely without support or pretended to give it so he would fly towards an enemy station, just to deny it when he needed it. Thus anyone trying to carry the bomb on our side had almost no chance at all to see it through.
b) They forced EVERYONE in the game to remain in the match the entire gametime, allies being bored to hell and enemies being forced to run suicide missions against a fortress of ships, being destroyed over and over, racking up repair costs and ruining everyones fun and wasting their time in the process.
c) They took away the possibility of anyone else performing well pointwise and made sure no other corporation could get points for their PVP rating
d) They ruined the entire game mode and the fun for people who actually enjoy something else then senselessly slaughtering people just trying to play the game.
Now you could argue as an ally I could just do something like make a warpgate and ram them to oblivion, or use a jericho frigate to teamkill them. This however would be a reportable action.
Long story short for the TL;DR’s, while I don’t think kill rewards should be removed or modified from what they are right now, I do believe the game needs a TDM mode.
While i understand how frustrating that can be. A single example of a unified corp does not represent the state of a game and warrant others methods of playing as irrelevant or wrong.
1.) if a group of 3-4 is hunting down opposing team players, then that means you still have 3-4 players that can focus on the objective and now that group of 3-4 players has less enemy fighters to worry about since that original group of 3-4 hunters is going where the enemy is adding a distraction and lower enemy team count.
2.) if there is a weakly defended beacon and the majority of players are there, then it comes back to a lack of skill to kill the defenders of that weakly guarded beacon. There can’t be a majority of players of one team spread across 3 points. Your team will either kill all the enemies at one beacon and move to another that has become the “heavily” guarded one to continue killing allowing for beacon capture as a team or individual skill can take a point from the enemy Every ship can kill another so an inability to kill without the help of a team is a weak argument.
3.)A captain being left alone is fine since now you have more troops on the front line. A captain still has the ability to shoot and kill the enemy or travel with the main group. There is no method that requires the captain to turtle in the back or for other players to guard him. If a team speeds to your captain while the rest of your team heads towards the enemy then you have the numbers advantage same as them to kill the captain and then it comes down to who is better at killing to end the game quickly. You can’t claim to want a game to end quicker(bombing run) and then lobby for a tactic that draws out a match and expect your point to make sense.
4.) if a team takes both bombs and holds onto them then what is to stop the other team from not killing them and taking the bomb? a well defended position? the whole match is open space, there are no funnels that restrict player movement. The team that can’t kill a bomb carrier because they are too focused and ignore the defenses before attacking are just need more practice and it is not the fault of a better coordinated and skilled team. Having a TDM mode only will not eliminate the players that hold onto bombs from playing objective based sessions, objectives point people towards battles and will draw people to want to kill at those points more than flying around a map with aimless destinations hoping to kill as many players. As far as tactics go losing 1 beacon to reset a bomb and then being able to take it to the enemy and win is possible it just comes down once again to skill. If the problem is that matches last too long(15 minutes maximum) that is a personal problem.
1.) Repair costs never outweigh the gains in pvp
2.) No one is forced into a full length game. It’s their choice when they decide to start a game. That’s why there is a time limit and after someone’s first match they understand what the possible price is.
3.) you tend to speak for EVERYONE when you don’t know. Speak for yourself or a select few that will confirm your feelings.
4.) Other corporations can’t stop their team from scoring points or kills. They are better and therefore get more points as it should be.
5.) As stated before a TDM mode will not solve YOUR problems since the enticement of easier to find and less organized teams are in the bombing run, beacon capture, and captain assassination modes.
By all means suggest a TDM mode, but don’t blame others for your lack of ability or lack of desire to make friends(in a multiplayer game) and take the organizational bonus as a Necessity to stop others from playing how they want.
If you do the objective you get:
lot of point (300 for a beacon, 12 for a drone, 1k for a bombing, 600 for a captain kill) and from that a lot of money
good chance to win, and with winning:
loot (this is the only way to get epic equipment)
way more rep
In every game mode killing is involved (clear the beacon, kill the bomber, crush the enemy team/kill the cpt.).
The scoring and the winning reward are inspiring the players to do the objectives, but if someone only wants to shoot
without thinking, you can’t force them to do the logical / profitable thing.
Oh boy where do I start with that reply. Sorry but this might get a little impolite Judgemint
First of all, yes a single example of a unified corp is not a representative for the meta-game. However in this case it was used as a demonstration of general game behaviour that can be observed in these games.
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Uh yeah, why did you just confirm my point while trying to contradict it? the 3-4man going manhunting is a problem because it weakens the team.
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I’m not sure what exactly you even tried to say there. I said the fact that weakly defended beacons get completely ignored is a problem. But if the majority of the players is at the weakly defended beacon it’s either a) not weakly defended or b) already being captured and thus not being ignored. And no, a sole interceptor can’t kill a full health/shield federation frigate with minefields and hull or shield repair. That has nothing to do with personal skill
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It’s not fine because if the enemy sneaks around the corners or uses a microwarp enginge/warp gate to jump right in front of or behind him the team at the front can do nothing. And I’m not saying you shouldn’t try to take down the enemy captain. But your main priority is defending your own “Protect your Captain at ALL costs”.
4.) if a team takes both bombs and holds onto them then what is to stop the other team from not killing them and taking the bomb? a well defended position? the whole match is open space, there are no funnels that restrict player movement.
- uhm, have you ever actually played the game? Asteroid formations, platforms…
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no they don’t. but they greatly reduce the reward
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yes, you are forced into a full length game if it could be finished quicker but is not due to a minorities decision without you being able to do anything against it. That is the definition of being forced to do something
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I speak for everyone because I ask people how they feel about the game, compile the data and post it here on the suggestion forums
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No they can’t. But if you have a squad of 4 people communicating via microphone coordinating and withholding important information from their team to favour their position it already makes that much of a difference.
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Yes it will, since if people want to purely kill they won’t join a random matchmaking rotation which only has a 1/3 chance to get the mode that would allow them to farm up easily other the one that wants them to kill
I generally don’t make “friends” on the internet unless I know them for years and have met them in real life. I do however join corporations, play in a team or facilitate friendly and recurrent contact to other people I get to know.
Also I’m sorry for this but I checked out your in game profile judge. I don’t think you have enough experience to talk about the meta game the way you do right now since you haven’t seen half of it. I’m not that experienced myself but that’s why I inquire with my corporation mates or people I meet for their take on a situation. I’ve also made sure to play in every Tier at least once.
So yeah like I said I’m sorry if this post might have been somewhat bashful but I can’t stand it when you denote other people about being bad players without knowing what you are talking about.
Oh boy where do I start with that reply. Sorry but this might get a little impolite Judgemint
First of all, yes a single example of a unified corp is not a representative for the meta-game. However in this case it was used as a demonstration of general game behaviour that can be observed in these games.
Uh yeah, why did you just confirm my point while trying to contradict it? the 3-4man going manhunting is a problem because it weakens the team.
I’m not sure what exactly you even tried to say there. I said the fact that weakly defended beacons get completly ignored is a problem. But if the majority of the players is at the weakly defended beacon it’s either a) not weakly defended or b) already being captured and thus not being ignored. And no, a sole interceptor can’t kill a full health/shield federation frigate with minefields and hull or shield repair. That has nothing to do with personal skill
It’s not fine because if the enemy sneaks around the corners or uses a microwarp enginge/warp gate to jump right in front of or behind him the team at the front can do nothing. And I’m not saying you shouldn’t try to take down the enemy captain. But your main priority is defending your own “Protect your Captain at ALL costs”.
- uhm, have you ever actually played the game? Asteroid formations, platforms…
no they don’t. but they greatly reduce the reward
yes, you are forced into a full length game if it could be finished quicker but is not due to a minorities decision without you being able to do anything against it. That is the definition of being forced to do something
I speak for everyone because I ask people how they feel about the game, compile the data and post it here on the suggestion forums
No they can’t. But if you have a squad of 4 people communicating via microphone coordinating and withholding important information from their team to favour their position it already makes that much of a difference.
Yes it will, since if people want to purely kill they won’t join a random matchmaking rotation which only has a 1/3 chance to get the mode that would allow them to farm up easily other the one that wants them to kill
I generally don’t make “friends” on the internet unless I know them for years and have met them in real life. I do however join corporations, play in a team or facilitate friendly and recurrent contact to other people I get to know.
Also I’m sorry for this but I checked out your in game profile judge. I don’t think you have enough experience to talk about the meta game the way you do right now since you haven’t seen half of it. I’m not that experienced myself but that’s why I inquire with my corporation mates or people I meet for their take on a situation. I’ve also made sure to play in every Tier at least once.
So yeah like I said I’m sorry if this post might have been somewhat bashful but I can’t stand it when you denote other people about being bad players without knowing what you are talking about.
Overall the point i’m making is that seeing things only from your point of view doesn’t make for as strong of a case as you’re making. This is not “general” game behavior since you’ve failed to prove it.
1.) It balances out. Simple as that. a group from one team killing the other team not only makes that team weaker but the opposing team weaker so there is no hindrance to gameplay. If the mode is 3v3 or 4v4 its still the same. half your team breaking off to kill half of the other team still leaves those choosing to focus on ONE objective they want to accomplish on even footing. I didn’t confirm anything of your argument. You say it as though 3 to 4 people break off and don’t influence anything on the other team. And yes an interceptor most definitely CAN kill a frigate just longer than a ship with more firepower. The right weapon loadout can destroy shields, disable healing, and take out a hull.
2.)If a beacon is weak due to lack of defenses, then how can one or two people not attack the undefended or weakly defended beacon. Just because everyone else is somewhere you are not required to go there. There is no reason to ignore that beacon if that’s your goal. The original point was that EVERYONE is at one beacon. If that were so then the players complaining about the inability to capture the weakly or unguarded beacon makes no sense. You see everyone at one beacon------> go to one that everyone is not at.
3.)Once again you act as though those players that sneak around or warp drive to the captain can’t be killed by the Captain. IF a majority of players warp to the captain on your team the result is that THEIR captain also has very few defenses. It balances out and personal skill comes into play like I’ve said. You either have varying degrees of defense or varying degrees of offense. That is not a broken system. The main goal is to kill the opposing captain since that is what determines that ability to respawn. Protecting your captain can be done in several ways. Turtling, evading, or traveling with the main group for assisted damage or protection.
4.) the point you TRIED to express doesn’t work since the fact that while there are asteroids and platforms, there is not only 1 direction in which to attack. You use examples of warping and sneaking around the outside to reinforce one of your points and try to dismiss it with this comment. Faulty logic.
1.)“Greatly” reduced? 30% decrease in your rewards for a pitiful play through doesn’t seem too unrealistic. The fact that you can’t do as much as others who are organized shouldn’t effect you?
2.)I love how you worded this. A “minority” controls the entire game? How can 3-4 people control 7-10 unless they can play the game better. As for them “forcing” their own teammates to comply, hardly. There is always a choice to allow your teammate to control the bomb. let him die and then kill the other team and take the bomb. Your allowing them to do something they aren’t forcing you. It “can” be done quicker. So you’re the authority on how long a game SHOULD be? If the problem you have is the time limits for a match, make a new category suggesting a smaller timer.
3.) PLEASE post your survey methods, data, analysis, and allow for re-experimentation. Also look up what makes an experiment valid or not. And unless you can prove me wrong with more than a dismissive sentence the term “everyone” literally means EVERYONE not a majority or more likely for you, a minority. I’ve seen over 4000 people logged on at one time, me included, and to not make yourself look like a fool I would suggest your “data” being from every one of those people.
4.) Don’t use half of my point to try and negate what I’ve said. Use it all. Is only one team allowed to have 3-4 people talking in conjuction to come up with strategy and tactics? The answer is no. The amount of difference it can make applies to BOTH teams not just the one you’re using to emphasize your point.
5.) I probably didn’t express my point well enough so I apologize. Two options for bloodlusty players: Join a game where you have to search for and hunt down every kill or join a game where you know where people will be and have the opportunity to kill them more often. Maybe that makes it clear. A TDM is a good idea just not for a single point made by you or the OP.
Choice of semantics aside my point still stands. You’re in a game that uses teams so why would cultivating a team management skill be bad because one person chooses not to use it. That’s the whole point. Do what you want to do and let others do the same. If their method works better why should they be punished?
More vague declarations and ignorance statements. Seeing my in game profile shows absolutely nothing about my understanding of mechanics. The fact that I use examples to support my claims while you make claims with no evidence speaks louder than anything. I’ve played in every Tier of the game and all but the T4 scenarios, which doesn’t apply to this anyways. I kill at least 2.5 people per game and also assist almost as much. That is a general overview since some games i get zero kills and some games I get 11(as seen by my highest kills stat). People are better than me and I never try to suggest anything other than that. It IS skill based and that is what determines victories. Whether it be killing, distracting, defense, corp management, or anything else. Nothing is available for one person that isn’t available for another.
Look I can not stop you from having your own beliefs nor can I dissuade you from them apparently. As such I will respectfully end this conversation with you due to the fact that we can both keep repeating the same things over and over and over again to no effect without convincing the other party of our viewpoint while needlessly filling this thread. If you wish to continue this argument please send me a private message.
Anyway, summary of my points:
#1 A TDM should be introduced, seperate from the current arcade rotation
#2 Removing kill rewards outside of objective influence is not a good idea
#3 Current modes need revisioning towards being made less farm friendly
Look I can not stop you from having your own beliefs nor can I dissuade you from them apparently. As such I will respectfully end this conversation with you due to the fact that we can both keep repeating the same things over and over and over again to no effect without convincing the other party of our viewpoint while needlessly filling this thread. If you wish to continue this argument please send me a private message.
Anyway, summary of my points:
#1 A TDM should be introduced, seperate from the current arcade rotation
#2 Removing kill rewards outside of objective influence is not a good idea
#3 Current modes need revisioning towards being made less farm friendly
Your points should have been made in a new thread. The first two don’t follow the views of the OP since his reasoning and what you’ve later supported are based on not allowing others to play how they want because you both don’t play that way. And I’ve supported your first two points in my arguments as well. The third point is pointless unless you want to limit what others can do once again because that’s not how YOU play.
I don’t need to continue since you can’t support any of your claims and any response you’ve given is based on YOUR wants and problems, for a minute section of gameplay.