Op ? or Not ?

[6864012]

For a moment i thought i m moron (And maybe I m). But Eviscerador u and me completely agree at some things. Look what I wrote about fighter class in general  in past posts (and they keep hitting me in the balls). And look what u wrote:

 

 

Second one:

 

Forget all this about good pilots, bad pilots, good outfits, bad outfits, forget it completly now. Some things by the logic and nature and a bit of realism shouldnt be possible in any case. Imagine that u are best shooter in the world and u have a handgun in your hand … then u meet tank on open ground. You will die my friend no matter how bad is driver of that tank. Even if u have hand grenade launcher u will die, maybe if u are lucky, just maybe, u will disable it and run away  but u wouldnt kill nor tank nor the driver. Belive me i know what i m talking about.

 

I hope u undrstand now what i m trying to say on this topic.

 

I almost forgot something . Now is the time when some smart guy shows up now and tell - yes but a good shooter with a H&K handgun  on a distance of 533.783 m will shoot throught tank gun barrel right in the moment when tank driver loads grenede in a barrel, 0.754 seconds before firing his gun and then that grenede will explode inside the tank and it will kill the tank and its driver. And thats the way how tank gets killed.

The problem is this is not a realist game. This is a team based arcade.

 

Interceptors have always been the best solo ships, by nature, because you have speed, and a good dose of firepower. You can choose when to fight, and when you leave. You can pick isolated targets and fight for objectives. But usually interceptors power doesn’t scale with numbers. In fact it is worse, since AoE damage will be worse for them.

 

Frigates on the other hand, are team workers. They NEED a team behind them, to assist them because they are not fast or maneuverable enough. But they have the staying power, and the tools needed, to support such team. Because of that, frigates power scale with numbers, since most if not all their abilities are AoE based, and designed to support a number of ships. But they can work solo most of the time.

 

And then you have fighters. Figthers are the jack of all trades. They have the second best supporting abilities (Commands) after the engineer heals, they have the best burst firepower and maneuverability (gunship) and they have the perfect counter to fast ships (tackler)

 

But they don’t have the staying power of the frigates, or the speed of the interceptors, so they need both of them to work. Fighters power doesn’t scale with numbers, because they need the frigate support, and the interceptor spearhead (except fed gunships, which are like big covert ops)

 

But even then, in all tournament, fighters have always been the core of most top teams, with gunships as DPS, Commands giving buffs and tacklers supporting against fast and agile ships.

 

So no, fighters are not bad, in fact they are the core of any good team. But for playing solo or in small squads, they are not that good.

[31113346]

 

But even then, in all tournament, fighters have always been the core of most top teams, with gunships as DPS, Commands giving buffs and tacklers supporting against fast and agile ships.

 

…  Wing of 6 guards and 2 engies and u and your wing of fighers will cease to exist in no time. U said it yourself. and  I saw it myself in number of times …

 

 

But I’ve been finding more and more veterans and good people just flying frigball squads even in high tiers, because with the current meta, frigates are just better.

 

They are and thats is realism at its best  in this game … When you are playing team battle (with the current meta) at the tournament u are playing battle at kursk. I dont like it … I like to fly with fighters more then frigs but … My opinion is that fighters should have more speed and maneuverability and more firepower so that they can parry ints in dogfights and frigs in direct attack - middle category. And there would be more fun on battlefield and more diversity in team ship structure and more viable strategies.

 

 

The problem is this is not a realist game. This is a team based arcade.

 

Why then we dont fly on pink rabbits and shoot at each other with women tampons. Because most of us like space movies, science fiction and stuff. And that genre has its own logic and “realism”. And tht must be preserved or we might endup  flying on  pink rabbits and ships with chirokee haircut.

[23836588]

In that age given you have “press  button to attach thing to ship” then we’d all be flying around with 100% hit lasers if it were “real”

[31113346]

@ Rennie - Even Han Solo has a joystick. “Realism” of the genre R.  :005j: 

[6864012]

…  Wing of 6 guards and 2 engies and u and your wing of fighers will cease to exist in no time. U said it yourself. and  I saw it myself in number of times …

 

 

They are and thats is realism at its best  in this game … When you are playing team battle (with the current meta) at the tournament u are playing battle at kursk. I dont like it … I like to fly with fighters more then frigs but … My opinion is that fighters should have more speed and maneuverability and more firepower so that they can parry ints in dogfights and frigs in direct attack - middle category. And there would be more fun on battlefield and more diversity in team ship structure and more viable strategies.

 

 

Why then we dont fly on pink rabbits and shoot at each other with women tampons. Because most of us like space movies, science fiction and stuff. And that genre has its on logic and “realism”. And tht must be preserved or we might endup  flying on  pink rabbits and ships with chirokee haircut.

Sci fi space battles are everything but realistic. Most of the time the battles are short range, and most spaceships behave like planes in atmosphere or submarines under water.

 

Even today dogfighting is being designed towards BVR (Beyond visual range) and the dogfight kills are just because the air forces usually request for visual confirmation to avoid friendly fire.

 

But if you ever played good flight simulators, you can play with interceptors like the old Tornado ADV or the F14 tomcat which were just flying missile platforms with powerful radars that could shoot down planes at 200 km.

 

Now imagine that in open space, where everything is void. But really void, so void you can fire a laser from the space station to the moon, hit the mirror the Apollo 18 placed there, and measure the distance from the earth to the moon in 1 second.

 

Imagine the same but with a more powerful laser, and hitting a capital ship. Why whould you need to be in 5 km range of another space ship, when currently naval battles in earth are fought BVR as well.

 

So no, a realistic space game would be like the Enders Game. A commander in a closed room, commanding his/her fleet though a VR view with icons and numbers. In fact, EVE Online is the best example of how a space battle should be, if everything was scaled in thousand of kilometers instead of meters.

 

 

In fact, one of the problems Star Citizen and Elite dangerous have, is that they want to be simulators, but they have to constrict the gameplay so it is fun. Because a real space sim would be very boring. Imagine Kerbal Space program but without time compression.

[31113346]

Now we were on same frequency Eviscerador. I know the problems of realism in pc games. But u didnt read me carefully. I said “realism” (inside quotes)  and logic of the genre - space movies like star wars, star trek etc and all other books, comics and stuff  that affected our view on space, space battles … Devs are good. They are not too far from it. But there is place for more tunning.

 

I dont have the problem with afterburners on space ship, coil mortar explosion, slowing down inertia, distance in meters, bad and nerfed missiles and stuff. But I have a problem when somebody write something like this:

 

 

Recons are a tricky role to master. Their damage ability isn’t up to the standard of covert ops interceptors, and they don’t have the ECM interceptors’ disabling abilities, making them arguably the weakest interceptor in a straight fight. However their bag of tricks is varied and deep, allowing them to debuff key targets, disable cloaks in an area and cloak themselves to escape if things go wrong. Finally, their MWD ability gives them unparalleled mobility, allowing them to capture unguarded beacons, surprise Long Range Frigates, lend their support to teammates exactly where it’s needed most, or simply to escape.

 

And then I see recons that kill frigates and fighters with ease and interceptors that dance polka in front of whole enemy battle fleet.

[6864012]

Now we were on same frequency Eviscerador. I know the problems of realism in pc games. But u didnt read me carefully. I said “realism” (inside quotes)  and logic of the genre - space movies like star wars, star trek etc and all other books, comics and stuff  that affected our view on space, space battles … Devs are good. They are not too far from it. But there is place for more tunning.

 

I dont have the problem with afterburners on space ship, coil mortar explosion, slowing down inertia, distance in meters, bad and nerfed missiles and stuff. But I have a problem when somebody write something like this:

 

 

And then I see recons that kill frigates and fighters with ease and interceptors that dance polka in front of whole enemy battle fleet.

Recons can kill frigates. But most of the time it is the other way around. And yeah, interceptors are designed for dancing polka in front of an enemy fleet. But they won’t do anything out of that…

 

They are not OP, trust me. Usually is the player in the controls who is OP.

[31113346]

 

They are not OP, trust me. Usually is the player in the controls who is OP

 

Maybe u r right E.

 

But recon should be recon even if god himself flies it.

Cover Ops shuld be lone killer praying on solo careless pilots or do some mischief like plantig a bomb and get a hell out of there. Not something that  challenges weapon systems of the whole fleet. No metter if god himself flies it. (Fed Cov OP is ok, jericho is not)

[6864012]

Maybe u r right E.

 

But recon should be recon even if god himself flies it.

Cover Ops shuld be lone killer praying on solo careless pilots or do some mischief like plantig a bomb and get a hell out of there. Not something that  challenges weapon systems of the whole fleet. No metter if god himself flies it. (Fed Cov OP is ok, jericho is not)

As long as that cov ops is further than 3 km from your frigate ball, he is useless. If you zone the interceptor and prevents him to diving into you, you are doing it right. Even if you don’t kill him.

 

And a recon is a recon. I know very few people that can fly a recon well aggressively. In fact only two. Me, and Cerberuss.

[31113346]

Look at this proposition:

 

Inties

Speed - 20% more

Maneuverability - no change

Weapons - no change

Little less tanking

 

Fighters

Speed - 20% more

Maneuverability - 20- 30% more

Wepons 5 - 10% more

 

Frigs

No changes

 

This is for devs. Try it on test servers one day.

 

More dogfights, more hit and run tactics, more differences among roles, more diverse strategies - more fun.

[6495374]

Look man, there is no reason we should be nerfing skill or teamwork in this game. If you are a good enough recon pilot to scout and to kill people, then you should be allowed to do so. Ive had a few frigate kills on recons, and i would say they actually are better at killing shield tank frigs than cov ops, due to shield drain mod. We shouldnt take that away from them.

[3229917]

More dogfights, more hit and run tactics, more differences among roles, more diverse strategies - more fun.

 

It would be fun if we get games on our own server all the time, you know how NASA always win sector conquest right? We got a game the other day on RU server, lost with 1000 points difference.

it’s almost impossible to dogfight on other server. Those interceptor swarms wiggling around killing your team and there’s nothing you can do about it.

[31113346]

Look man, there is no reason we should be nerfing skill or teamwork in this game.

 

Does anybody tries to really read and  try understand posters here before he kicks them in the balls. Man did u read this topic from beginning?

 

Read my words about teamplay:

 

For me pleasure comes from understanding things, overcoming limits, team play and strategy . Not from number of deaths and kills, or who has bigger …  

 

Team play is one of the best things in this game. Devs are pushing us use team play and that is very good …

 

But if u fly cesna and in the meantime u kill squad of F16 with it something is wrong. No, its not your skill, its because that cesna of yours isnt really the cesna. So DONT CALL it cesna or make cesna of it. 

 

 

 

 

Those interceptor swarms wiggling around killing your team and there’s nothing you can do about it.

 

My child, u also dont pay attention on posts of some aces here. Tackler is the solution. You should form a wing of 8 tacklers and u will surely win (sarcasm here). Pulsar should be one weapon to counter but it is to weak to deal real demage or … ints are just to tankyyyyy. One guard in the middle of that swarm should destroy half of them.

 

I m tired of writing and explaining my opinion. Don’t kick I wont be here to take it.

[6495374]

Ur analogy is flawed at its basics. Interceptors are not cessnas, if anything THEY are f16s. Frigates are more like bombers than anything else.

[5207021]

To finish this in one sentence.

Each ship seems OP to casual pilots if they are being flown by veteran pilots. 

 

 

I m tired of writing and explaining my opinion. Don’t kick I wont be here to take it.

Now, it’s your opinion, we accept your opinion. But we do not need to share it.

[31113346]

 

 

Now, it’s your opinion, we accept your opinion. But we do not need to share it.

 

True U don’t. But sometimes is important to hear different opinions and that was my intention. I accept yours moreover I comply to it.