New System - Tiers, Skills, Etc.

Hello, I am currently looking at another design concept for the game, That incorporates many of its current aspects, but in a different light.

Please note, this is a player created suggestion, and is in no way tied to Gaijin or affiliates

 

 

if approved the system will undergo the following changes.

 

 

  • Deletion of “tier ships”

  • Adding a "Skill tree’

  • Creating a “skill point” buy system

  • Adding various GS related Functions

  • Polishing

 

 

 

Deleting the tier ship system will enable…

 

  • Faster que’s
  • Easier balancing
  • Potential for a balanced open universe

 

Adding a Skill tree will grant us…

 

  • Increased Credit/Market Stability
  • Increased income Via Gs Sales/Options
  • Increased Customization for players
  • Unique Player-Shapes Building (every player is unique)

 

Starting the process.

 

 

After the removal of “Tier” concepts from the ships, we will add Ship Variants, The ships themselves will gain “marks” for each type. So a previous tier 1 ship, will be Mark 1 frigate, and so forth. Alternatively something i like is renaming them all together to “Shuttle, Light Fighter, Destroyer etc”.

 

After This stage, We Will remove “Experience” and “loyalty” from the game. It will not longer be needed.

 

From here, Reputation and participation points will play the main roles in the game.

 

Reputation will play the role of granting higher versions of ships, and modules

Participation points will play the role of converting (With credits or GS) into Placement points (aka Skill points)

 

Participation points will be reworked, to offer a few advantages to help bolster a steadily non-stagnant growth rate on the reputation (so it dont take forever to level it).

 

The will be as follows

 

5 points for buff related assist

10 points of damage related assist

15 points for killing blow

30 points for objectives (capture beacons, Plant emp etc).

 

 

This way the end of any game will grant, say max of 2000 participation points. 

The reason for this is because 50% of those points will be added to reputation, to help increase the rate on top of contracts.

 

 

Here Is an Example of the Tree

 

skillt10.jpg

 

 

 

Buying Placement Points / Skill Points

 

 

PP (Yes i did that intentionally because its very funny, and we can always used humor in a game) Or placement points will cost X amount

of credits/Participation.

 

 

Each skill will have a difficulty. Now before i start in this, it was discussed that we should make this tree non-linear, But i am unsure about how

to really go around this with out breaking the system, or the concept of each ship class has to play. so i stuck with a linear design.

 

Each Skill tree will have Two things, Research Level, and Power Level.

 

 

Research level is the amount or rate of how much points it costs respectively to upgrade to the next level.

Power Level is the current Level of the skill X out of 5.

 

 

 

Each Research level will have a multiplier of point cost on it, starting on top of a base amount which is

  • Level 1 = 3 points
  • Level 2 = 5 points
  • Level 3 = 7 points
  • Level 4 = 10 points
  • Level 5 = 15 points

 

 

Research level will be as follows

 

  • Level 1 = x1 cost

  • Level 2 = x2 cost

  • Level 3 = x3 cost

  • Level 4 = x4 cost

  • Level 5 = x5 cost

 

 

Placement Point cost Will be Increased Only in the instance of Credits + Participation points, Hoever Gs + Participation points will stay static.

 

In other Words, the First point for credits/Participation points will be 1000 Participation points, 25,000 Credits, with 10% Increase Per point.

GS will be 1000 points, and 250 Galactic standards Per Point.

 

this will make it impossible to pay to win, at start but will give an advantage later. This is due to the fact that mid to late game you wont have to farm

credits as much, and thus gs will become favorable way of upgrading mid to late game. Note: there will be a very slight different between the two,

it should not be worked out to be a massive notice.

 

 

How Roles fit in.

 

Since each section has 5 skills , and 5 levels, that gives 25 skills per section, and 125 skills total.

Placement of your points will decide what your role is They will break down as follows

 

60% Of your points in one role will grant x Role

40/40% Will grant a role

30/30/30 Will grant a role

 

In other words, 60% of points spent in weapons, will give you offensive

40% in weapons, 40% In defense will give you protection

30 energy, 30 electronics, 30% Defense will give you support role

 

And so forth. This may merit the creation of new roles, or the editing of the current bonus’s.

 

 

How the ship system will look.

 

After the deletion of Tier system, we will go to upgraded variations of the ships, that perform better for various tasks, They will themselves have no bonus’s.

other side of things like trading speed for damage, or damage for defense. this way there are ships that are more suited for your play style, But will

allow you to customize your play a little, for example of playing  a tackler with heavy weapons upgrades, or a fighter with heavy tank.

 

 

Que’ for matches

 

Quing will be simple based on your Skill Points + reputation level and ship quality., This way, you will have at best a max of 5-10% variance between you and all team members and opponents in matches, this will cause the battles to be purely based on skill

New Layout design  skilln10.jpg

Complete overhaul of the game basicly = not gonna work.

I also have amazing ideas about spacegames. But i don’t bother to ventilate them here as my suggestion for SC. You probably mean well, but this strays pretty far from what we are playing right now, don’t you agree ?

Actually its not so far from the current system, its more of a tie of all of the current elements together. Reputation,  Tiering system, and implants and roles.

it simplifies the game while making it more versatile.

There’s a few questions I have about the ship system you’re proposing.

Are there still going to be straight upgrade from other ships(Raptor>Alligator>Anaconda>Grizzly)?

Will there be a system that limits newer players from buying the more advanced ships besides money?

Does this mean a single model of each ship as apposed to 3 for every one?

Complete overhaul of the game basicly = not gonna work.

Complete overhaul? More like addition. The framework is already there, it just needs the elements to be moved into new positions to create a different picture (to get all metaphorical) :stuck_out_tongue:

There are several things wrong with this. 

 

#1) This is a complete overhaul of the game. This is open Beta. it would take far too much time to re-code everything to implement this. While I’m not entirely opposed to this, it would be better to lay a similar system ontop of the current system rather than a complete rework. 

 

I see you make a comment that it’s close to the current system. you obviously don’t know how coding, testing, or software releases work. It’s not that simple. 

 

#2) This makes balancing more difficult. you’re removing tiers (which actually makes things easier if it’s cleaned up) and adding in a tree. while this does give more customization, you’re compounding this on top of a couple of currently broken mechanics. 

 

Modules right now are either insanely overpowered (Pulsar. Ever see a frigate without a pulsar? me either. they’re either always dead or don’t exist) or extremely niche/useless to most people (Energy drain, self destruct)

 

#3) Implants currently fill the same role as your skill tree. They aren’t as accessible, which your proposal alleviates. but this isnt’ really game breaking. this could be more easily fixed by adjustments to the existing system. 

 

IE: randomize contracts rather than have them be faction set and never changing. and make them more like daily or hourly quests. I can pick a contract based on the faction I want to gain reputation with.

 

At the same time, you gain reputation based on the faction of ship you are using. IE: if you primarily use jerricho ships, you gain more jerricho reputation. If you switch to a federation vessel, that’s your choice as a merc. you can then gain reputation with the federation. 

 

I’m a mercenary afterall. my primary motivation should be with whoever is paying the most. faction allegiance is nice for patriots and soldiers. but my understanding is i’m a mercenary.  Possibly a highly skilled and reputable mercenary. why Am i paying a faction to let me work for them? seems a little backwards. My understanding is that i’m From the federation. I’m not necessarily a soldier or patriot. It would be nice to have that option (IE: sign an exclusive contract with a faction and get bonus reputation/credits when using those ships) but really a good merc wont’ do that kind of thing.  

 

#4) This type of system is actually a poor business model. The game aside, the company does need to make money. while I’m completely for a fully free game, there need to be worthwhile money options. 

 

One of the best moves they could make is to introduce wait times when buying new ships/weapons, and add a ‘buy it now’ option where the ship comes completely unlocked with full synergy. This would do a much better job of removing the ‘pay to win’ feel of the premium modules and ships. 

 

What we already have is pretty good. it just needs cleaned up. we need more convenience and vanity options for standards. credits need to be the primary means of buying anything, and standards a more convenient option. 

 

I wouldn’t be entirely opposed to each progressive Mk. being 2.5-3x the previous Mk. (IE: Mk. III costs 2.5x Mk. II) with premium modules becoming the new Mk. IV. With Military grade options being slightly better than Mk. III and Experimental being slightly better than Mk IV. Factions should retain exclusive rights to Mk III, but add in exclusive rights to Mk IV as well. Naturally, I would add in wait times to purchasing these with credits and have a ‘buy it now’ option for standards. 

 

#5) There are easier ways to add specialization, and cleaning up the modules mechanic does a far better job, and makes more sense, than your tree system. 

 

Cleaning up the shop UI would help a lot with this. 

 

IE: make seperate tabs for Sabotage Vs. Recon  modules etc. 

 

cleaning up the modules can really help clean up how you can build a certain ship. 

 

I’d like to see 3 roles for each ship.

 

Interceptor:

 

Sabotager: Specializes in getting to an enemy (Likely a long range frigate or ‘vanguard’ fighter) and locking them down. Stasis generator, ion emitter, Tachyon Cocoon, etc. slowest speed for an interceptor, medium offensive capability, works best with a fighter or anti-fighter partner. 

 

Recon: Specializes in scouting and pinpointing enemy weaknesses. Spy drones, taking beacons, anti-cloaking, micro-warp. Extremely fast, but  very limited offensive capability.

 

Assassin: Specializes in offensive capabilities, able to quickly take down fighters and other interceptors. Orion systems, extremely high crit chance, plasma web. Medium speed for an interceptor, glass cannon/assassin whose main task is to take out enemy fighters and interceptors. 

 

 

Fighters:

 

Marauder: Fastest  and most durable of the fighters, but with the lowest offensive capabilities. Specializes in getting to a location and ‘holding the line’ while supporting surrounding friendly interceptors while waiting for the heavy frigates and bombers to make it to the front line. Polarizer systems, Aegis systems, Phase Shields

 

Bombers/Berserkers: Glass cannon fighters that specialize in taking out frigates and other fighters. Medium speed, high offensive, overdrive module, Target Painter, Valkyrie Systems. 

 

Captain: Medium speed and offensive. Specializes in controlling sections of space. getting in and out of dangerous zones undetected and providing support to the front line with debuffs. Chameleon, White noise, Engine Supressors. 

 

Frigates:

 

Sniper: Long range, backline frigate that snipes out key targets from a distance or disable anyone that gets to close. Disentigrator, lots of missiles, propulsion inhibitors. Least durable, medium offense. 

 

Vanguard: Front line frigates that specialize in taking out targets at close range, especially interceptors. Warp gate, Pulsar, Combat drones. Medium durability, high offense. 

 

Knight/Paladin:  Medium Range frigate that specializes in supporting allies and controlling areas of space. Nanodrone clouds, Mass Shield Generators, Torpedos. Lowest offense of frigates, highest durabilty. 

 

#6) The current ship progression tree is pretty fun. I like being able to see and unlock new ships. It adds a bit of lore and history to the game. When you first start your merc career you have an outdated ship. as you get better and have a better reputation you get access to newer and better models. access to better tools. etc. There’s nothign wrong with this progression so i see no need to change it. but this is looking purely at the progression of obtaining ships, and not the power balance between ship types, factions, etc. 

I don’t want to see this game going that way. I love the tier-system how it was before the latest patch and I think most of us did so too.

That’s my opinion. Sorry, that I’m not very constructive with this post.

There are several things wrong with this. 

 

#1) This is a complete overhaul of the game. This is open Beta. it would take far too much time to re-code everything to implement this. While I’m not entirely opposed to this, it would be better to lay a similar system ontop of the current system rather than a complete rework. 

 

I see you make a comment that it’s close to the current system. you obviously don’t know how coding, testing, or software releases work. It’s not that simple. 

Not really no, though this takes the assumption that the dev’s programmed this in a smart way (especially if they used object oriented design). How is this? You would have your ship object that hold your unique stats on your ship. But how are these stats calculated? Well it would have knowledge of the applied equipement objects, so it might look something like (using a deimos with the reinforced beam mk1 passive as example, and java syntax since it is what I am most familiar with at the moment) hull = defaultShips.deimos.getHull() + passiveSlot.getHull() + <other equipements slots most of which would be 0 and not effect hull>; where defaultShips.deimos.getHull() would get the default hull variable from a ship index class and equipment1.getHull() would call the getHull() on the equipment object held there, which would return defaultShips.deimos.getHull() * .145 (14.5% of default hull strength).

So what does that mean? They just replace all the equipment calls with calls that grab from a newly made spec tree object that pulls all the changed from it in a very similar fashion.

 

Too confusing, didn’t read: They grab the equipment stats from somewhere to make a ship that is unique. How is this different from changing those calls to grab from a stats object instead? It isn’t. Overall the change to the framework would be negligible. There is ALOT more work put into the program to get the game itself to actually work than just changing a ships stats. Changing how the ship stat variables are being changed shouldn’t actually be that difficult, it would most likely be identical to how they grab an equipment’s changes to a ships stats.

 java syntax since it is what I am most familiar with 

 

…*Sigh*

 

/thread

 

 

again.

 

It’s not that simple.

 

I’m assuming you’re a student. and a fairly new student at that. In which case I highly encourage you not to talk about things you’re just beginning to understand. until you’ve worked in a development sector for several years you wont’ really understand. 

 

I honestly don’t have the patience to explain it to you right now. but in a nut shell: there are too many interacting parts. A change like this involves everyone, not just developers. and bulk coding aside it’s a business decision to make these changes. not a development decision. IE: it’s not likely to happen given the game is in OPEN BETA. if this was phase 1 closed beta maybe. and that’s a pretty huge maybe. 

 

There are plenty of better ways to accomplish the same thing without re-inventing the wheel. you can easily build off existing architecture and make system that is both easier to implement and better overall for game balance than this. 

 

The number one piece of advice I can give to other beta testers, and I end up saying this on a lot of test forums: Never try to re-invent the wheel. It never works. it’s never received well. Talk about experience, what you like and don’t like. you can propose a fix, but keep it vague. anything that changes must be filling a gap or correcting a major problem. 

 

What major problem does this proposal fix? delete tier system? but why? what’s broken about it? what’s wrong with ships as they are? why does it break balancing?  how does this fix balancing? why change this instead of something else, such as match making? why do we need a skill tree when we have implants? what’s wrong with the implant system? why do we need a completely new system instead of fixing the current system? what’s wrong with our current level of customization based on modules and implants? 

…*Sigh*

 

/thread

Well it isn’t my thread, so this thread should be closed based on my opinion >.>

Well it isn’t my thread, so this thread should be closed based on my opinion >.>

 

Sorry. that’s not the point. when things like this happen, it usually debunks a thread and makes it devolve into a different discussion. 

 

It’s not technically possible to do this. 

 

not only that, there are better ways to do it without re-inventing the wheel. that’s the point. 

 

A better shop would help a lot, for one. Mods are essentially our skills, covering both passives and actives. setting up the structure of the shop would accomplish essentially the same thing with far less resources and time. 

There’s a few questions I have about the ship system you’re proposing.

Are there still going to be straight upgrade from other ships(Raptor>Alligator>Anaconda>Grizzly)?

Ships would really be touched. they would come as they are now, the only difference really is that they all que in the same match.

There may however be some need to nerf the upper tiers HP rates 5-10% (like 2000-3000 HP)

 

Will there be a system that limits newer players from buying the more advanced ships besides money?

Yes, as stated above the ship screen basically will be the same.

 

Does this mean a single model of each ship as apposed to 3 for every one?

There will only be 1 tier of modules. However, the quality ( mark 1, 2, 3 and experimental) will be in game.

 

Review my revisions to the system here.

 

[http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/19129-new-leveling-ship-module-system/](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/19129-new-leveling-ship-module-system/)