Matchmaking / Balancing PvP

Game Discussion PvP
1

I’m not the worst, I’m not the best.  So, If your answer/feedback is to tell me to get better then please just save it for some other trolling.  Not everyone can spend the kind of time needed to achieve killer stats, not everyone is innately an ace gamer.  But everyone deserves to have fun.

 

I feel as though I know how to support my team and not totally stink up the battle field.  That being said, I was just on 6 game losing streak.  There was a very high ranking 3 man team just ravaging T3.  I mean they are all scoring 2500-3000 EP and the other teams highest score might break 1000…MIGHT.  To add insult to injury, every game played against this team ended with being spawn camped by them.  Within that time the queues went from averaging a minute or so to averaging three or four minutes.  Hmmmm.  

 

I see this ugly paradox happening in the game where high ranking players can’t find matches in T5 so they come troll T3.  Newer players get discouraged and leave.  Which means fewer players are making it to the higher tiers.  Which means there are fewer players for the expert pilots (k/d ratio above 1.0 and rating over 7000… maxed out everything) to compete against.  So, they come into T3 and drive their prospective competition from the game…  thus creating the paradox.

 

I also think this paradox is further exacerbated by the algorithm in matchmaking which just lumps all of us together regardless of our skill ratings/stats.  But, because of the low player base and long queues this has to be in order for us to avoid the ridiculously long wait times for battle. 

 

I tend to think that if Gaijin changed it so that you were matched according to players stats, (and say within 2 or 3 ranks of each other?) matches would be more balanced.  An added bonus might be that players with really high ratings would have massive wait times in lower tiers and be forced to queue up in the higher tiers making high tier queue times less excruciating.

 

What do you guys think? 

 

2

T3 is actually, in the minds of a great many vets, the place that they are most entitled to play in this game. 

They view it as the main tier in star conflict. Personally, in my mind that’s T2 and T5.

If you’re losing, you’re bound to have lower scores than the winning team.

 

I won’t tell you to get better, that comes with time in any game, but try looking at your builds to see if you can improve them.

3

I disagree. I enjoy flying in t3 because it is more laid-back and less stressful than t5 (sometimes I can’t even hit ships in t5, no matter how hard I try, simply because of the speed of everything…) I therefore do not want to be forced to play t5.

Also stats can be manipulated and are not an accurate representation of people’s skill. I know many good pilots that have “low” stats simply because they don’t fly in squads enough.

But you hit the nail on the head when you say the problems are due to low population. The MM is made for a high population game. In 3v3, 4v4 or 5v5 games, each single player has a higher influence on their team’s peformance, be it good or bad. This excacerbates unfairness.

Where squads are concerned, I think we currently have the best system possible, that is +1/-1 system.

4

Thanks for the feedback guys, I really appreciate having different insights.  WolfKhan. . . I have been and will continue to reach out and ask/research better ship builds.  That could be a factor for sure. 

I’d love to hear from some more senior players about this. 

5

 

I’m not the worst, I’m not the best.  So, If your answer/feedback is to tell me to get better then please just save it for some other trolling.  Not everyone can spend the kind of time needed to achieve killer stats, not everyone is innately an ace gamer.  But everyone deserves to have fun.

 

I feel as though I know how to support my team and not totally stink up the battle field.  That being said, I was just on 6 game losing streak.  There was a very high ranking 3 man team just ravaging T3.  I mean they are all scoring 2500-3000 EP and the other teams highest score might break 1000…MIGHT.  To add insult to injury, every game played against this team ended with being spawn camped by them.  Within that time the queues went from averaging a minute or so to averaging three or four minutes.  Hmmmm.  

 

I see this ugly paradox happening in the game where high ranking players can’t find matches in T5 so they come troll T3.  Newer players get discouraged and leave.  Which means fewer players are making it to the higher tiers.  Which means there are fewer players for the expert pilots (k/d ratio above 1.0 and rating over 7000… maxed out everything) to compete against.  So, they come into T3 and drive their prospective competition from the game…  thus creating the paradox.

 

I also think this paradox is further exacerbated by the algorithm in matchmaking which just lumps all of us together regardless of our skill ratings/stats.  But, because of the low player base and long queues this has to be in order for us to avoid the ridiculously long wait times for battle. 

 

I tend to think that if Gaijin changed it so that you were matched according to players stats, (and say within 2 or 3 ranks of each other?) matches would be more balanced.  An added bonus might be that players with really high ratings would have massive wait times in lower tiers and be forced to queue up in the higher tiers making high tier queue times less excruciating.

 

What do you guys think? 

 

 

Well idk if ur talking about me, milf, and base with other variations, but the only way to beat us is by being better and squadding with good people. my advice, get mad skillz. Apply to OWL, NASA, ARCH, or WPK and one of em will probably take u in and train you to get better. they’re all good for making you better. OWL would be my recommendation as the guys there are pretty cool and they’re pretty good too. 

 

If you lose a lot, work on getting better. Handicapping good people because they’re good is stupid. TBH, i think mm should ignore squads in matchmaking and make the teams even without the squads so it’s basically squad vs squad, that way more people will squad and learn team work. 

6

 

 

Well idk if ur talking about me, milf, and base with other variations, but the only way to beat us is by being better and squadding with good people

This is one of the problems ArcTic. people with skill (or aimbots, I can’t be sure anymore) as good as yours and WolfKhan’s think that if you were a less skilled player. especially if you were a less skilled player without a corporation, you’re essentially screwed against people like Milfeulle and ImInUrBase. 

 

 

my advice, get mad skillz.

Once again, far easier said than done. after a certain point, you can’t really improve without watching tactics videos of NuclearHail pwning or joining a corporation. You have been so good for so long that you forget its REALLY HARD to grind PVP when you’re constantly losing against guys like you and, as I affectionately call him, MILFwhale. this constant losing also drags down your stats, which doesn’t make you a plausible recruiting target for corporations, and you probably won’t be accepted to a corp when you apply. After dealing with you and milfie there in T3, my stats have suffered a decent amount. 

 

 

 i think mm should ignore squads in matchmaking and make the teams even without the squads so it’s basically squad vs squad

The matchmaker already does this to a certain extent. 

 

 

Apply to OWL, NASA, ARCH, or WPK and one of em will probably take u in and train you to get better.

These corps have high standards for applications, and often won’t accept you if your stats are not too good. and when you’re not the cream of the crop and need to improve, you won’t have the stats to get in. Honestly, a good place to start would be FDEF, Ultra, GArc, SRO, etc. you will have a better chance of improving in these corps, and once you get the stats you need to get into the higher ups, you can. 

 

 

 but try looking at your builds to see if you can improve them.

Builds only help so much. You’re gonna go down no matter what if you’re against a skilled player. 

 

Also, you berating players like Sema and being a bully to them (I’m sorry but not sorry, you are definitely not being a good sport when you say that kind of stuff to anyone) doesn’t help. Sema quit the game because of his inability to keep with the learning curve. its stuff like you pm-ing people  after beating them that drives them to quit the game. a good rule to use is this: let them start the fight, and either ignore them (if you don’t give them a reaction, they won’t continue harassing you, because bullies thrive on reaction), or finish the fight and then ignore them. don’t start something unnecessarily. 

 

Its tough starting in T3. I almost quit the game because you and base kept destroying me in matches (not that you can help that I realize, except by staying out of the tier), but I kept going because I got an invite to FDEF and found some lovely people. I can only compete with you guys if my ship has over 4 levels of synergy, and has a purple weapon, and no white modules anywhere, active or inactive. Its things like this that prove the fact that people with  all-purple ships, who have many skillz (much doge), are ruining the game for the newbies. I may not convince you to leave T3 and prey upon T4 instead, but I will prove every point of yours about T3 aside “T3 is the funnest tier” as invalid. 

7

Matchmaking code leaked:

Line 1: local teams = math.random()
8

I support Zero 100% on this point here.  I don’t understand why people are actively deterring new blood from sticking with this game.  My thinking is this.  “Are you trying to kill Star Conflict?”  

Zero is right, many people are really creating a paradox.  Your best tier is a bit unpopular because “so few” people play it, so you jump down a tier because it is more popular.  In doing this  You make T3 less popular.  Is that not obviously something messed up?   

 

With the T3 kill squads, I am rather opposed.  But what I had the massive misfortune to come across the attached screenshot

 

 

post-244293-0-58009200-1434336557.jpg

 

Do you realize what this is?  You came down to  Tier 2 and did the very same thing.  Why on Earth would you do this?  Do you not recognize how discouraging it is for players at such a beginner level to be completely and utterly wrecked to this degree?  You’re stopping them from enjoying the game at an even earlier time than you usually do.  Stick to T3 if you’re going to do something like this.  It is too easy for you to be down at this level.  People are **still learning** at Tier 2, and you’re  clearly  ruining the fun for them.  I don’t know anyone who enjoys taking this kind of defeat.  You don’t even give them a chance to succeed, you don’t give them the chance to become better players.

 

ArcTic, I know that you say that the best way to counteract your level players coming down to T3 and ruining everyone’s fun is by getting better right?  Well how do you expect them to do that?  By joining a corp like OWL, ARCH, WPK, or NASA?  If these players are so “unskilled” as you’d say, at Tier 2, why would these corporations ever take in someone with such low stats?  If they can’t even break 1000 on their team because of you guys destroying them, how are they supposed to improve.

 

 

As it is perfectly clear, I don’t like you guys dropping down to the lower tiers and killing the relatively new players.  But please, if you’re going to do it, for the sake of everyone

 

STICK TO TIER 3  

 

At least there, we’ve got some chance of killing you, but in Tier 2  There is zero chance for the new players to ever become successful pilots.

 

 

I seriously hope you guys take this thread seriously.  You may not realize it (even though we’ve spelled it out for you) but doing this is killing the game, and believe it or not, we wouldn’t like the game to die out due to lack of player base.  

 

 

9

T2 is a nice place where vets and new blood can more easily fight each other on more ‘even’ ground. 

It’s a nice way for the new players to learn strategy quickly, while they’re not having to deal with all of the new modules within T3. 

I say it’s better T2 than T3.

 

It is not a 0% chance for newbies to defeat vets. it’s simply a matter of team-play down in T2. you’ll find it a lot easier to do it in T2 than in T3.

As for that picture, you’ve only captured a small part of the amount of players within it; Bring the larger picture.

10

T2 is literally the place where a single good player can carry a whole 12 men team alone.

11

T3 is the same, but more so. It just has more people. (thanks to vets kindly gracing its footstep)

I personally carry entire teams in T5 (depending on the opponent, of course)

I find it harder to do as such in T2, where as in T3 I can do almost everything I can do in T5.

If the vets stopped going to T3, and simply queued up into T2, then it’d be more even for the new blood because there wouldn’t be much of a difference in how strong modules make you; It’d just be a matter of skill, or team-play. It’s easier to learn skill than it is to grind through star conflict’s ships.

 

 

Do we even get 12 man teams?

12

 

attachicon.gif2015-06-14_00003.jpg

To be honest, this is the reason I’m not too upset about Milf leaving NASA…

13

T3 is the same, but more so. It just has more people. (thanks to vets kindly gracing its footstep)

 

no it isn’t the same imho; T2 is only harder to carry because you can’t safe everybody in time, but otherwise, experience makes you unstoppable in T2.

 

T3 is mid tier.

 - It’s where wallets can buy you in, if you know what you are doing, or at least think you know. Then you got no right to complain, you skipped T1&T2.

 - It’s where all ships get 4 active modules, so you can learn all roles, and all R8&R9 ships are awesome.

 - All Premiums are balanced in. All Premiums are affordable. Makes it ideal for a casual player, who actually isn’t a nub, just does not play much or does not yet know if he will invest into higher tiers.

 - Is ideal to learn teamwork: you always have squads against you. Strong squads, weak squads.

 - Is the tier, where you should stay, until you have fully purple ships, and beyond. You should just stay there for a long long time. Way longer, than people atm. do. First year of Star Conflict for anyone, should revolve around T3. If people would do that, T4 and T5 would get a whole new quality.

 - T3 is the third tier. not the first. Not the second. You have to expect veterans. Not different in ANY game.

 - T3 has no allround ships. Every ship has weakspots. Even Veterans are killable. Difference in T5 is much bigger.

 - T3 is the tier, where if you play your cards right, your credit income will become nonstop positive, even if you lose a lot. You can easily buy T4&T5 ships by playing T3 nonstop.

 - T3 does not have the issues of T4&T5 atm, whatever they may be, since the issues change and slowly get ironed out. It’s the part of the game balanced for the longest time now and has the population to create meaningful data for balancing. No vets in T3 would destroy that.

 

Swallow it, get over R7, and play play play.

14

Swallow it, get over R7, and play play play.

 

Pretty much. r7 ships still feel like T2 but when you get to the r8’s and your ship has reached somewhere between 4-8 levels with mk2 gear, suddenly you can compete more with the other t3 pilots

15

I mean we’re not robots and play 24/7… I only play during US evening time for about 3 hours daily and was not active for about 6 months due to rl work schedule. The only time you see me in T2 is there’s no squad in T3 to against us. I’m not always squad up with my own corp, I join Arch’s squad and against other Radix and Arch members quite often. That being said, The game prevent us from going to T1, why can’t they do the same for T2, T3? At least punish us for getting less rewards? I’m sorry for your lose but I too pay to enjoy this game and did not break any game policies or rules, blame the game that allow this to happen in the first place and push the devs to modify the queue and tier logic.

16

Pretty much. r7 ships still feel like T2 but when you get to the r8’s and your ship has reached somewhere between 4-8 levels with mk2 gear, suddenly you can compete more with the other t3 pilots

They don’t feel like t2. They are t2 ships. And still, they should face t3 ones. It’s not the small upgrade on weapon damage (wich will be mk.II at best anyway) that suddenly make them t3.

 

I understand why new players feel discouraged when flying a rk7 and face a mkV weaponized full synergy rk9 premium OP thingy (even if the premium doesn’t count, it add to the feeling that they have no chance to win).

17

This problem has been there for so long and i always said that leaving killing squads also in t3 could really be a killing game idea!

Highre rank palyers who already reached lvl 15 in at least 2 of the 3 ship braches should be subject to different MM rules when queing in lower tiers. I think that a 2 man pro squad should be countered by 4 man squad of non pro players or something like that… Just some randoms ideas :wink:

18

Same issue as always : all player base is in t3 ==> you can squad in t3 ==> vets fly in t3 to avoid queue time ==> t4 is empty ==> no one improve modules in t4 but seasonned pilots that are already maxed out in t3 and t5 ==> you get powned in t4 ==> nobody level ships in t4 ==> t5 player base is small ==> all player base is in t3…

 

With faster queues and more pilots, killsquad won’t be a problem in t3. Even if you lose (quickly against those), you know you will have a chance for a fair game after that. I even find it entertaining and challenging to some point. You have a good adrenaline rush when you face them, due to the “fear” that they instill. That’s what I feel anyway.

The pilot rating system is also part of the problem. Even if you do insane score in t3, it’s still caped. I understand that it’s meant to force pilots in higher tier. But some (I guess most of them, me included), don’t care about rating. So they faced aces in t3 and crush them.

19

We were flying in a 4-man “kill”-squad in t5 last night, and surpringly were getting very quick matches!!!  After a certain point (about midnight EU time) we were forced to drop to a three man squad because there was no 4-squad to vs us anymore, and at about midnight we had to drop to t3.  And then we played in t3 until quite late, without any problems :slight_smile:

 

I’m definitely seeing an improvement in squad matchmaking.

 

And the games were all quite fair also, since the enemy squads were quite good and the MM compensated the occasional difference in number of players in the squads on both sides by giving the larger squad the weaker players.

20

I agree, it’s much better now. And the ability to fo in squad feels good.

 

But when you want to help “low level” corp members, you go to t3. I guess the fact that “t3 is the go-to tier” is just a habit that need to be forgotten.

 

I still think that t4 is not needed in the current state of the game and that it’s one of the things that stop players from going to t5.