So when i can watch the video guys?
Few days after you learn word “yes” and it’s meaning :012j:
So far, among the most significant details about Jaguar which have been highlighted here are that a Jaguar has:
an abundance of interceptor active module features all rolled into one ship
no tackler active module cooldown times while interceptors have active module cooldown times
substantially more durability than any single interceptor
substantially more damage than any single interceptor
except the brief covert ops all-out burst unloading
covert ops has to cooldown between its rages
above average to excellent energy regeneration
tackler cloak instead of having to have it as one of the 4 actives
tackler cloak is multitudes longer than recon cloak. Recon cloak has quite an energy hit.
700 meters per second speed while retaining incredible handling despite what the cruise engine module says
add sentry and heavy guard drone to the list
add craftable attack drones or doomsdays too if you want.
it’s like 3 interceptors with 5 active modules, double durability and the amount of damage fighters are intended to be doing, and it has interceptor speed
Some have been attempting to hijack the thread for the first 3 pages with diversions, ad-hominem and personal attacks in hopes of avoiding detailed examination of the Jaguar’s outrageous advantages. I’ll briefly address the personal attacks here:
My Youtube channel is Dazarco. Dig around there to see me play Star Conflict. The things I want to do in Star Conflict, I do them without struggling.
My rating is currently in the 6200’s. It is on the rise from playing my rank 8 Procyon for a while which had rating down in the 5000’s. I now have a full synergy Procyon. I start using 12’s through 15’s again, and it raises. I guess I get it from playing objectives. Skirmish is not even my main priority. I am somewhat relaxed about skirmish, but that is no cause for excessive insults. I barely even bother with using main weapons or missiles while flying a recon in Skirmish. None of this diminishes what I have said about the Jaguar’s outrageous advantages.
I know how to play skirmish without any cheat ships like Jaguars in it. Just use rank 12 ships. I’m alright with that.
That ^ is not why. I’ll refer to this post to remind you of why: [http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/29920-jaguars-are-cheat-ships/page-5#entry356964](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/29920-jaguars-are-cheat-ships/page-5#entry356964)
I got sloppy for a little bit. Let’s analyze every little imperfection in it, so we can hijack the thread with diversions. Since all the pros and vets play every skirmish with purely flawless impeccable perfection, amirite? I could just refrain from uploading anything except videos where I did do everything perfectly, if that’ll keep us on track on a thread that isn’t supposed to be about me playing.
The detonation one is better. It has my first encounter with gravitational lense in it. I did not even know that existed until I was taking a bomb to their C beacon.
So far, among the most significant details about Jaguar which have been highlighted here are that a Jaguar has:
an abundance of interceptor active module features all rolled into one ship (not sure what you really mean but all tacklers shares the same modules)
no tackler active module cooldown times while interceptors have active module cooldown times (this is only valid for inhibitor beam and target painter, which require a lot of energy per second while they are active. Engine suppressor, sentry drone, heavy guard drone and cloack all have active time and cooldowns. Guard has signature masking and ECM has weapon inhibitor, both working in the same way as target painter and inhibitor beam. Command buffs are always permanent (except for valkyrie) without any energy cost at passive mode just like engineer heals (nanodrone, mass shield and energy emitter))
substantially more durability than any single interceptor (like any other fighter. Frigates also have substancially more durability than any single fighter, but less maneuverability, just like fighters have less maneuverability)
substantially more damage than any single interceptor (In general aspects (excluding cov ops and gunships) fighters deal more dmg than interceptors, the way frigates deal more dmg than fighters)
except the brief covert ops all-out burst unloading
covert ops has to cooldown between its rages
above average to excellent energy regeneration (all tacklers have energy consumption from AB reduced, jaguar has no extra cap size nor regen than other tacklers as percentage. Of course all federation ships have better energy systems, therefore all federation tacklers by consecuence gets better energy regen and/or cap size (cant remember). Fed ships also have more speed but less durability than counterpart faction ships)
tackler cloak instead of having to have it as one of the 4 actives (¿? all ships have a special module, all of them being equally effective for the ship role. All tacklers share this)
tackler cloak is multitudes longer than recon cloak. Recon cloak has quite an energy hit. (all tacklers share this, recon has its own strenghts and its not a ship meant to hide as much as a tackler)
700 meters per second speed while retaining incredible handling despite what the cruise engine module says (valid for all fed fighters, strafe is supressed and maintaining adaptives is quite a challenge which certainly requires a lot of energy as well. Interceptors retain their superior dodging capabilities, being the best ships to orbit and fire against other ships)
add sentry and heavy guard drone to the list (shared by all tacklers, other roles have their own specific modules. IDK what you envy of heavy drone, its proj speed is so slow it can only hit frigates and destroyers)
add craftable attack drones or doomsdays too if you want. (all T5 ships can equip this)
it’s like 3 interceptors with 5 active modules, double durability and the amount of damage fighters are intended to be doing… (you can fit a jaguar (and any other SP fighter) to be full offensive and surpass other fighters in firepower, however reducing its survability and having less than average fighters, any way spark will always deal more dmg than jaguar. You can fit it defensively and suck at firepower. You can fit it to be agile and suck on other stats. You can have 1 thing at a time, but NOT ALL AT THE SAME TIME as you say).
Im really sorry all those characteristics are retained by all federation tacklers, and most other features by the remaining tacklers. Your attack seems to aim the tackler class and cruise engine, not the specific ship Jaguar. Truth is, you are being all but objective, reason why other players blame you for lacking skills. Also, you dismiss reasons previously stated (as you ignored my arguments previously, stating afterwards there was no argument: [http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/29920-jaguars-are-cheat-ships/?p=356725](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/29920-jaguars-are-cheat-ships/?p=356725)). This is the least you deserve for your behaveour.
Im really sorry all those characteristics are retained by all federation tacklers, and most other features by the remaining tacklers. Your attack seems to aim the tackler class and cruise engine, not the specific ship Jaguar. Truth is, you are being all but objective, reason why other players blame you for lacking skills. Also, you dismiss reasons previously stated (as you ignored my arguments previously, stating afterwards there was no argument: [http://forum.star-conflict.com/index.php?/topic/29920-jaguars-are-cheat-ships/?p=356725](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/29920-jaguars-are-cheat-ships/?p=356725)). This is the least you deserve for your behaveour.
I see that you felt compelled to block quote an entire post and try to dismiss it by claiming all tacklers are like the Jaguar. If that were true, they could all stop building Jaguars and fly the r15 Fed grind tree tackler instead, but they don’t. They don’t prefer the Rockwell either. I replied to that 2nd post you linked already. If you think there was something about my reply that makes it not a reply: I do what I can without being the proud owner of a cheat ship to comment on it as a person flying it. I know its features, and I’ve seen it in action many times. I listed it all. We can go around in useless circles indefinitely. I notice you tried to work in the cheap shot with the lacking skills line again too. Anything to keep the Jaguar as it is, right?
you are complaining about the jaguar, but at the same time complain about the whole tackler role.
every ship has a special. the tackler has cloak. the covert ops has web.
it needs to use its actives, to tackle interceptors, but its main special is defensive.
those ceptors can, simply by shaking the mouse or by rolling their face over the keyboard, do escape manouvers; it might not seem like that the first 3000 battles, but the best survivability is simply not get hit. just because joe casual flies some mean fit which has lotsa damage, but seems kinda okay to hit, doesnt mean, mr. right cant fly the same ship to a level where he eradicates your whole team.
-> the interceptor can shake tackling modules with using a multipurpose module, given they selected the right implant - which they should.
-> the main tackler slowdown module has cooldown. only target painter and afterburner inhibitor has none; those have however line of sight.
-> a fast interceptor, with proton walls, implants, correct module timing, is a full time job for one single tackler, and might not even be possible to stop, without the aid of gravi beams, which means your damage argument is only valid, as long as the tackler sacrifices the additional powers of gravis.
-> the tackler is compared to other ships not tanky at all. while you can make the jaguar pretty tanky _for_a_tackler_, you lose the option to dish damage and have range for modules and sight, or sacrifice tackling ability further with survival mods.
-> the energy regen of a tackler is not better than the energy regen of commands, so its not even best in its class; additionally, cruise engine has huge impact on how energy household works.
-> cruise also cuts down engagement time a lot, requiring your team to substitute your missing constant damage with better barrage. you risk losing the main body of your team, every time you take a ship, which can not participate in formation.
-> most good tacklers are also good ceptor pilots, since it helps to understand your target. similarly, ceptor pilots with tackler experience have better odds in dogfighting a tackler.
It seems I can’t start a new topic/thread…
Everyone interested in playing in the “Test Matches” please add: Lieutenant4
I’m on UK time (UTC+0) and assume a majority of the participants are on US time (roughly UTC-5) so the best time for this would be 11-12pm (my time) which is 6-7pm US time. When I get online I’ll speak to the participants about the time, rules and server.
For simplicity’s sake we’ll start with 1v1s, we’ll do this by the “challenger” creating a custom game at the arranged time adding the Jaguar player and waiting for me to join as spectator. I’ll be recording the games from either player’s perceptive (perhaps if we had multiple “cameramen” we could record from multiple perspectives e.g. player 1, player 2, free camera).
Matches I want to cover
- Dazarco (Jaguar) vs null82936 (E-LRF)
- Dazarco (Jaguar) vs John191 (Gunship)
- Sponge (Jaguar) vs Mecro (Microlocators or spydrones on a fast, maneuverable recon with F8, shrapnel, and slow missiles)
- Sponge (Jaguar) vs Mecro ( ECM with diffuser/stasis and doomsdays)
- Sponge (Jaguar) vs Mecro (Command with damage buff and diffusion tank)
- Sponge (Jaguar) vs Mecro (Guard with decent resists, heals, and any weapon)
- Sponge (Jaguar) vs Mecro (Any other tackler (Not Jag) with crit gauss and inhibitor beam to remove cruise engines)
It seems g4borg and papitas have strong opinions too. Want to prove them in the “arena”? 
Quick question Mecro, what is F8?
I see that you felt compelled to block quote an entire post and try to dismiss it by claiming all tacklers are like the Jaguar. If that were true, they could all stop building Jaguars and fly the r15 Fed grind tree tackler instead, but they don’t. They don’t prefer the Rockwell either. I replied to that 2nd post you linked already. If you think there was something about my reply that makes it not a reply: I do what I can without being the proud owner of a cheat ship to comment on it as a person flying it. I know its features, and I’ve seen it in action many times. I listed it all. We can go around in useless circles indefinitely. I notice you tried to work in the cheap shot with the lacking skills line again too. Anything to keep the Jaguar as it is, right?
80% of tacklers in OS are Rockwell. You replied with: “no one has answered” great reply to counters: slows. Saying that because someone uses the ship he will always defend it even if that is cheating, is such a terrible argument. About the “cheap shot”: “Truth is, you are being all but objective, reason why other players blame you for lacking skills.” please…And its not to keep the Jaguar as it is, is to keep balance in the game. You may know i love destroyers, however i admit it requires balancing (ive posted my feedback in many places, most of them where you cant see them cause you dont have access). Also what you dont know is that im awaiting to build my jericho tackler, and also you dont know that my jaguar build is almost like sword AE…i choose jaguar for its special module modification, the 25% tackler mod eff bonus and my small tweak on module slots (ive used sword AE almost the same as jaguar). Im still getting used to the fed flying ways, what makes my jaguar (and way to fly) some sort of middle way between fed and jericho.
And yes, we can go in endless circles because all of this can be looked from a subjective aproach and no one agrees. Use numbers, works better than ignorance vs experience/knowledge.
Quick question Mecro, what is F8?
Federation R8 implant: beta accelerator: “armadillo II”
80% of tacklers in OS are Rockwell. You replied with: “no one has answered” great reply to counters: slows. Saying that because someone uses the ship he will always defend it even if that is cheating, is such a terrible argument. About the “cheap shot”: “Truth is, you are being all but objective, reason why other players blame you for lacking skills.” please…And its not to keep the Jaguar as it is, is to keep balance in the game. You may know i love destroyers, however i admit it requires balancing (ive posted my feedback in many places, most of them where you cant see them cause you dont have access). Also what you dont know is that im awaiting to build my jericho tackler, and also you dont know that my jaguar build is almost like sword AE…i choose jaguar for its special module modification, the 25% tackler mod eff bonus and my small tweak on module slots (ive used sword AE almost the same as jaguar). Im still getting used to the fed flying ways, what makes my jaguar (and way to fly) some sort of middle way between fed and jericho.
And yes, we can go in endless circles because all of this can be looked from a subjective aproach and no one agrees. Use numbers, works better than ignorance vs experience/knowledge.
I said the ones with Jaguars are obviously prefering the Jaguars for its advantages instead of the Rockwell. I would expect the majority of in-use ones to be Rockwell, since all they have to do is buy it with real money.
I posted Star Conflict videos, so go chat about my skills in the video comments instead of repetitively trying to use it to clutter the thread post after post after post. Page 3 had this problem. Page 4 had this problem. Page 5 has this problem. It’s almost like addressing people with learning disabilities except I’d be much nicer to people with learning disabilities. Don’t think I don’t know why all of this clutter was put into this thread, starting right out of the box with the 1st reply from Katovskiy accusing me of calling destroyers cheats, which I never did.
Dazarco, wtf is wrong with you? Stop frothing and getting angry and think.
The best brawler style tackler in game before Jaguar was Rockwell. People were flying it then the Jag appeared. Some decided "Oh, I love Rockwell, but I would trade that shield slot for energy from passive armor. +1 hull, -1 shield. Others said - “hmmm, I love to go round and round” and Jag with 3 adaptives appeared. So yes, as every single secret project ship it’s main strength is in customization and adaptation to the player’s playstyle.
Now to your argument about Jag being cheat ship:
- no tackler active module cooldown times while interceptors have active module cooldown times - Inhibitor beam has LoS and it exists on all R13- R15 tacklers
- substantially more durability than any single interceptor - because it is fighter class, like every other tackler
- substantially more damage than any single interceptor - well as it has 4 turrets instead of 2 - again, fighter class. Command does more damage than interceptor. Not specific to Jag.
- except the brief covert ops all-out burst unloading - some recons do 50% crit chance with 100%+ dmg crit, so depends on build, also - not Jag specific
- covert ops has to cooldown between its rages - Tacklers as well. And if you mean Armada special module for Jag - it doesn’t have damage buff. At all. So again - no Jag specific.
- _above average to excellent energy regeneration - _try to fly AB with activated Target Painter and Inhibitor Beam. I dare you. And again - fighter class has by definition bigger capacitors and faster energy regen. Not Jag specific.
- tackler cloak instead of having to have it as one of the 4 actives - yeah, proper team has a recon with microlocator. And again - not Jag specific
- tackler cloak is multitudes longer than recon cloak. Recon cloak has quite an energy hit. - Adaptive camo - over 20 seconds on Covops. Armada Tackler module - 7 seconds, recon - 5. Normal tackler - I agree - 18 seconds. Not Jag specific, then.
- _700 meters per second speed while retaining incredible handling despite what the cruise engine module says - _Rockwell and Lion can do the same. Not Jag specific.
- add sentry and heavy guard drone to the list - only morons are doing that. Again, not Jag specific
- add craftable attack drones or doomsdays too if you want. - of course, but you can do this on ANY ship R13-15, so not even CLASS specific.
So not a single argument on the list is Jag specific. If by meaning that Jag, as a craftable ship is a cheat- then every SP ship should be called that. Build Peregrine, Caltrop and then you will be cheating as well.
Also - from what are you saying here - you mean that tackler class is op in comparison to interceptors. Well this class is designed to tackle… interceptors! Skilled pilot in tackler can shot down less experienced intie pilot, but believe me - in leagues I have yet to see countering recon rush with tacklers.
Also - if you are allowing yourself to be hit by multiple bubbles from Singularity Cannon - then you are doing something wrong.
Well @Lt.
while it would be fun to watch those fights, they would prove very little overall, given the topic
most of us didn’t state opinions, simply facts.
the basic answer to the whole thread is no, but I doubt Dazarco wont rest with that.
Also, I would not call Sponge’s remarks on the same level either. On its own, of course the Jag is superior, simply by adapting.
And while I wrote this, niri explained quite well why.
most of these discussions are witnessable if you just simply get to T5 pvp, as you might see many of the arguments fought out over several matches, as many of these gentlemen are not unknown to each other on the battlefield.
however, battlefields are the real deal, and 1v1 needs a specific kind of person to perform anyway, so even if such matches were held, i for one would not give a squat what people might “deduce” from it.
however, if you manage to get nullo back to the game, thats a good thing.
maybe.
also i am terrible in 1v1 in any game, as i tend to let my opponent win just to see his approach, and only fight back after a while. for me kills are only good kills, if the enemy remembers them, possibly by chipping something of their pride. otherwise, its just a score and someone else can take it, be proud of it, hang that epeen on a wall, and apply suction.
for me kills are only good kills, if the enemy remembers them, possibly by chipping something of their pride.
so that’s what is happening when 2-3 cloaked ships are goin after me while flying next to easy targets from my team?
Well @Lt.
while it would be fun to watch those fights, they would prove very little overall, given the topic
most of us didn’t state opinions, simply facts.
the basic answer to the whole thread is no, but I doubt Dazarco wont rest with that.
Also, I would not call Sponge’s remarks on the same level either. On its own, of course the Jag is superior, simply by adapting.
And while I wrote this, niri explained quite well why.
most of these discussions are witnessable if you just simply get to T5 pvp, as you might see many of the arguments fought out over several matches, as many of these gentlemen are not unknown to each other on the battlefield.
however, battlefields are the real deal, and 1v1 needs a specific kind of person to perform anyway, so even if such matches were held, i for one would not give a squat what people might “deduce” from it.
however, if you manage to get nullo back to the game, thats a good thing.
maybe.
also i am terrible in 1v1 in any game, as i tend to let my opponent win just to see his approach, and only fight back after a while. for me kills are only good kills, if the enemy remembers them, possibly by chipping something of their pride. otherwise, its just a score and someone else can take it, be proud of it, hang that epeen on a wall, and apply suction.
If only I could spectate T5 rather than play it.
All I’m asking for is hard evidence to support claims. People claim different things with their “facts” which are just opinions in disguise. You can theorycraft until you’re blue in the face but until people actually prove their statements they are just forum warriors. I only picked 1v1 because its the easiest to organise (and this topic was originally about OPEN SPACE), in fact why am I even bothering to set this up. Why does Dazrarco record footage of this OP jaguar in action? Along with how, despite them attempting to to “outplay” the Jag, they were unsuccessful.
Using this method one of the following outcomes occur:
-
Dazarco looks like a fool on video footage vs a Jag, his footage displaying his lack of skill or even attempting to try and deal with it. - Dazarco apologies, Jag isn’t op
-
Dazarco shows they are doing something wrong in the footage, that is easily corrected. - Dazarco thanks the forum for teaching them how to deal with jags
-
The Jag player uses some uncounterable tactic, and they are truly broken (unbeatable if played correctly) - Dazarco is correct and we should start building jags
I don’t care how “good” other people think you are or how many games you have under your belt, this is not about skill this is about science!
This is the guy that said that ‘[Empire gunships really are the turds of Star Conflict](< base_url >/index.php?/topic/27785-setting-up-a-castor-gunship/)’ …
He also showed us his videos in which he mostly fly in straight line aka even slow bubbles will easily hit him and getting dmg from that can be surely count as cheaty when you use bad build.
Source: Now I know why he thinks jaguars are cheaty
So, I’ve watched this video a few times, is that bit “bad” because he almost gets solo’d by guard drones?
Flying in a straight line makes you easy to hit even vs guard drone (AI controlled) as it mimics player aiming?
Does this prove that Dazarco is a bad player and therefore his point about jags being op is irrelevant?
Also, does Dazarco own a Jaguar?
Source: Now I know why he thinks jaguars are cheaty
So, I’ve watched this video a few times, is that bit “bad” because he almost gets solo’d by guard drones?
Flying in a straight line makes you easy to hit even vs guard drone (AI controlled) as it mimics player aiming?
Does this prove that Dazarco is a bad player and therefore his point about jags being op is irrelevant?
Also, does Dazarco own a Jaguar?
Ping is horrible.
The rest is irrelevant.
180 is fine. good enough to carry a game