i think the ship ROLES needs some tweaking :)

Suggestions Balance
1

FRIGS:

i find that frigs long range needs some buffs (not in pure dmg but in utility),

i find frigs support need some range (when they are set to be long ranged dps give them long range support mods, as an example allow modules like “direct shield generator” and “directed recovery” modules to get a huge CD reduction and a range of 8-10km with an aiming ability on them for long range support, while keeping modules like “directed repair” and “shield generator” in the aoe range they got now for support of the brawlers, so each have their own place of “work” and tactic.)

 

 

 

fighters:

i do feel like fighters need the ability to self repair/shield, i think they need a less effective version of “liquid armor” and “increased shield power” as it is now they have to be 100% relaying on a frig support setup to be floating within 4,5km from them to have ANY healing ability :/.

 

i feel that the “shield booster” and the “hull maintenance” are INCREDIBLE WEAK!! compared to them taking up an active module slot, in almost every situation i can possibly come up with ANYTHING else then these two modules would be wolrds better. so i really feel like these needs a major tweak (higher healing, longer duration, maybe lower cd, make it valid to have them, remember ANY ECM will break the healing and WASTED their cd, so if someone pops both to become “invulnerable” for 8sec(IF we imagin we overbuff them to crazy town) all you need to do is 1ecm and he just wasted 2 active slots which could have been used for “engineer suppression” and “pulsar” which would have garenteed the kill on a interceptor for a frig.)

 

 

 

interceptors:

need buffs/changes.

these needs some serious changes i get what they are about but they really dont do their job:

they got an extremely hard time taking out frigs(they will but it takes them FOREVER!! to kill a frig) and they got no chance in hell to take out a fighter (equelly good pilots here).

they do add some SICK CC to the battlefield but everything on them is close range, their dps is quite low, they die incredibly fast and have little to no dmg metigation.

all they have is their CC which is cool but if you had to choose between that and an extra fighter which granted moves at 20% lower speed, maybe 30%(if build for something else) the extra fighter would do soo much more for the team, even an extra frig would be so much better.

 

i feel like interceptors are the fun little fly’s which didn’t get enough love: i assume they are supposed to take out fighters? or lock down support ships?! or what are they actual for?!

i am not quite sure becouse they dont SHINE at anything which other ships cant do better besides moving REALLY fast, but that doesnt really do the trick in a teamgame of over 10 people per match, you will have to fight and when you are wildly inferior to everything you encounter it does seem to be an imbalance in the concept.

 

so with interceptors i would like to see more continually thrown CC.

like modules which gives you a huge spread increase, or much lower optimal/max range, or permanent slowing as long as its activated, etc.

CC modules which you can utilize on a target “permanent” to effectively LOCK IT DOWN! and prevent it from attacking friendlies or killing you (their dps in general seems ok, maybe a little bit nerf would be needed to balance out the ability to shut down another ships ability to attack you at all :)   )

but i want to see them much more in the role of a “interruptor” type ship, instead of now where it feels more like a fast “dps ship with some CC” which i dont think it does very well (it survives PURELY on badly made mechanics and lack of decent overview, and any concept which trives on the abuse of bad mechanics seriously needs rethinking)

2

Yeah, the interceptor need more dps. When you try shootdown someone using a interceptor you need reduce your speed and be almost stationary to concentrate fire. The low dps of interceptor make very harf to we do something, since be slow with a interceptor is be dead.

3

Interceptor isn’t REALLY meant for dog fights, you fly in, annoy the enemy with the Ion blast/take out shields/shut down their modules then fly away again. But occasionally their DPS does seem rather low.

4

But we cant annoy the enemy beacause the low dps.

 

And Interceptors are ships to INTERCEPT! You need a good damage to pass shooting, flee and pass shootng again.

5

Yeah, the interceptor need more dps. When you try shootdown someone using a interceptor you need reduce your speed and be almost stationary to concentrate fire. The low dps of interceptor make very harf to we do something, since be slow with a interceptor is be dead.

actually when you read my post i am saying interceptors should properly get LESS dps or at least not more :slight_smile:

but at the same time their CC abilities should get BUFFED, you played EVE online? if so you know exactly what i am going for, if not i basicly want the interceptor to be able to close distance FAST then LOCKDOWN the target so it cant run/cant kill you and cant kill others very effectively, meaning your job in an interceptor is to disrupt the enemy.

even allowing the interceptor at higher tiers to disrupt 2-3 targets at a time would be fine (target disruptors, lowering optimal range, lowering speed, higher spread, energy regain prevention, missile lockdowns, full out blocking all abilities for short durations etc. stuff like this)

 

Interceptor isn’t REALLY meant for dog fights, you fly in, annoy the enemy with the Ion blast/take out shields/shut down their modules then fly away again. But occasionally their DPS does seem rather low.

 

well the issue isnt their dps really, their extreme speed would make them rediculess OP if they could effectively Kill stuff, the issue is that they die too easy now as well, they simply lack utility/survivability/or dps.

giving them dps would make them op, giving them pure survivability would make them a Very fast fighter (which again would be op) so giving them more utility and “disruption” seems like the right way too go as described in my comment above :slight_smile:

6

But we cant annoy the enemy beacause the low dps.

 

And Interceptors are ships to INTERCEPT! You need a good damage to pass shooting, flee and pass shootng again.

Depends what role and faction your ship is. Generally I find interceptors to be more suited to stripping an enemy of his shield with EM weapons, locking his modules, weapons and regen and leaving him for my allies to tear apart. Nothing wrong with that, if done right an interceptor can make a hard-to-kill target a sitting duck with no shields or modules, or even weapons!

7

fighters:

My main ship is a fighter. The hull repair  / shield booster is enough to survive. It would be op if it would be better i think.

I never used both hull and shield repair module in one ship, you only need one of them to survive. You are not a tank, don’t try to overheal damage, simply avoid it and kill before get killed.

 

ceptors:

They are not for frigates kill. Even with a fighter sometimes it’s hard to kill a tanky frig. Ceptors ar the king is domination and destruction. They have the most op modules: stasis, phase, self destruct, ion beam, spy drone. If a ceptor built for burst dmg it can kill any non frig ship in seconds.  They have bonus to beacon capture. They have a nice bonus to crit (yeah with a crit mod railgun + the fed skill for +50% crit damage they can hit really hard)

 

“i feel like interceptors are the fun little flies which didn’t get enough love”

I feel that ceptors have the most potential in the game but they are the hardest to play too :slight_smile:

 

Frigates for lassies, fighters for no_obs (like me), ceptors for pros xD

8

I don’t agree. I first played ceptors and got really good results with them. I hated fighters (you can ask my corp, iwas always yelling at them, useless ships !).

 

But now i have some experience, i love my fighters. I think they are really hard to play. Maybe it’s because i play Empire fighters, that are excellent with overdrive but xxxx without. That means, they are excellent during 15 seconds every minute…

9

Try fed fighters. They’re faster and generally tougher than empire fighters and instead of overdrive they have invisibility, and if you go with the M variants instead of the Mk’s it can last 23 seconds! Great for sneaking behind the battlefront and taking out the captain.

10

Ok, i didn’t explain it properly.

I love my empire fighter. It’s really great. When in overdrive, my hull resists are 120/135/105 : i’m nearly invulnerable. I do great with it, i’m nearly always the first in my team. I have most of the time over 3000 points.

But I find it very difficult to use. It took me two months to get the hang of it.

11

interceptors

 

Fly in and drop prox bombs and mines on sniper frigs some of them don’t even move or shoot you if you get on top of them. You also make on hell of a chaser on catching the enemy bomb runner

12

Ok, i didn’t explain it properly.

I love my empire fighter. It’s really great. When in overdrive, my hull resists are 120/135/105 : i’m nearly invulnerable. I do great with it, i’m nearly always the first in my team. I have most of the time over 3000 points.

But I find it very difficult to use. It took me two months to get the hang of it.

actually your base resist on that one is 25 lower then the other one. so you win 25 resist to all when you overdrive and lose 25 resist when you dont, compared to the other one which is permanent resist AND cancelling all cc with overdrive.

 

i dont think its hard to use, it gives you rediculess high dps while its on, sadly it makes perfect flight control impossible and in almost every situation its kinda a last ditch effort to do dmg before you go down in fire :stuck_out_tongue:

not like the other fighters which have defensive capabilities which is nearly permanently available, but its a trade off which i wouldnt do myself since i love the incredibly “godmode” dps you rescieve when using this overcharge you will melt through ANY type of tank within seconds… all i would like is better flight control when having it on though, :slight_smile:

 

 

fighters:

My main ship is a fighter. The hull repair  / shield booster is enough to survive. It would be op if it would be better i think.

I never used both hull and shield repair module in one ship, you only need one of them to survive. You are not a tank, don’t try to overheal damage, simply avoid it and kill before get killed.

at t1 its ok, but at t2+ its crap and you will never use it, even on inties its too bad to ever be used :confused:

the issue here is that what the module heals of dps within the cd time is so incredibly little (like 1/3 of your hp at best) that it really isnt worth the 1 active slot which any other module would be better in this spot :slight_smile:

 

but yer all that was quite alot of topic

13

i dont think its hard to use, it gives you rediculess high dps while its on, sadly it makes perfect flight control impossible and in almost every situation its kinda a last ditch effort to do dmg before you go down in fire :stuck_out_tongue:

I don’t find it particularly difficult to drive. It’s finding the right moment to use it that’s tricky.

 

actually your base resist on that one is 25 lower then the other one. so you win 25 resist to all when you overdrive and lose 25 resist when you dont, compared to the other one which is permanent resist AND cancelling all cc with overdrive.

Well, as i have no problem when in overdrive, i kinda like my godmode.

Let me show you : 70/85/100 + 28 (polarization coating mkIII) + 50 (legion overdrive) = 148/163/178 resist on a 7557.8 hull with 42 regen.

You are not always in a high intensity fight. I like the ability to have a good ship all the time (a bit slow, mind you), and a very very good ship when i need to. That’s my way to play. I like big defaults and big qualities, as i long as i know them.

14

FRIGS:

i find that frigs long range needs some buffs (not in pure dmg but in utility),

i find frigs support need some range (when they are set to be long ranged dps give them long range support mods, as an example allow modules like “direct shield generator” and “directed recovery” modules to get a huge CD reduction and a range of 8-10km with an aiming ability on them for long range support, while keeping modules like “directed repair” and “shield generator” in the aoe range they got now for support of the brawlers, so each have their own place of “work” and tactic.)

 

 

 

fighters:

i do feel like fighters need the ability to self repair/shield, i think they need a less effective version of “liquid armor” and “increased shield power” as it is now they have to be 100% relaying on a frig support setup to be floating within 4,5km from them to have ANY healing ability :/.

 

i feel that the “shield booster” and the “hull maintenance” are INCREDIBLE WEAK!! compared to them taking up an active module slot, in almost every situation i can possibly come up with ANYTHING else then these two modules would be wolrds better. so i really feel like these needs a major tweak (higher healing, longer duration, maybe lower cd, make it valid to have them, remember ANY ECM will break the healing and WASTED their cd, so if someone pops both to become “invulnerable” for 8sec(IF we imagin we overbuff them to crazy town) all you need to do is 1ecm and he just wasted 2 active slots which could have been used for “engineer suppression” and “pulsar” which would have garenteed the kill on a interceptor for a frig.)

 

 

 

interceptors:

need buffs/changes.

these needs some serious changes i get what they are about but they really dont do their job:

they got an extremely hard time taking out frigs(they will but it takes them FOREVER!! to kill a frig) and they got no chance in hell to take out a fighter (equelly good pilots here).

they do add some SICK CC to the battlefield but everything on them is close range, their dps is quite low, they die incredibly fast and have little to no dmg metigation.

all they have is their CC which is cool but if you had to choose between that and an extra fighter which granted moves at 20% lower speed, maybe 30%(if build for something else) the extra fighter would do soo much more for the team, even an extra frig would be so much better.

 

i feel like interceptors are the fun little fly’s which didn’t get enough love: i assume they are supposed to take out fighters? or lock down support ships?! or what are they actual for?!

i am not quite sure becouse they dont SHINE at anything which other ships cant do better besides moving REALLY fast, but that doesnt really do the trick in a teamgame of over 10 people per match, you will have to fight and when you are wildly inferior to everything you encounter it does seem to be an imbalance in the concept.

 

so with interceptors i would like to see more continually thrown CC.

like modules which gives you a huge spread increase, or much lower optimal/max range, or permanent slowing as long as its activated, etc.

CC modules which you can utilize on a target “permanent” to effectively LOCK IT DOWN! and prevent it from attacking friendlies or killing you (their dps in general seems ok, maybe a little bit nerf would be needed to balance out the ability to shut down another ships ability to attack you at all :)   )

but i want to see them much more in the role of a “interruptor” type ship, instead of now where it feels more like a fast “dps ship with some CC” which i dont think it does very well (it survives PURELY on badly made mechanics and lack of decent overview, and any concept which trives on the abuse of bad mechanics seriously needs rethinking)

 

Frigates: I don’t agree. As it is frigates already have amazing long range capabilities and additionally I believe that a lot of people are already moving according to a mindset of “I am a frigate, I should spend my entire game at my base and snipe/torpedo away”. A frigate is MEANT to be involved in the fighting, supporting the fighters/interceptors during their dogfights. In fact as it stands now I would actually welcome frigate range being nerfed to discourage players from sitting back all the time without trying to fulfill objectives.

 

Fighters: Fighters already have amazing self-repair and sustain abilities without frigate support. Take skills like the Aegis or polarized hull or passive modules like the emergency shield barrier. Additionaly, the same as frigates are supposed to support their fighter squadrons, a fighter should also be protecting the frigate and thus be close to said support ship anyway. As for ECM, yes a single fighter going solo can be easily shut down with ECM. That is why there are interceptors in the first place. It’s a teamgame.

 

Interceptors:

#1 not being able to take out frigs. Yes that’s not their job. That’s what a fighter is supposed to do.

#2 not being able to take out fighters. Not true. In a dogfight the faster interceptor with a lot of cc has a clear advantage.

#3 while their main weapon damage is low, they have amazing mobility and can greatly help their team by locking down dangerous enemies while their support is being taken down.

#4 the debuff modules on interceptors have the same range as any other debuff modules. Additionaly abilities like the Federations “plasma web”, the Jerichos “tachyon cocoon” or the empires “microwarp engine” can defineatly not be qualified as low range.

#5 taking your example, in a battle of 10 vs 10 players a single interceptor would thus be able to not only completely lock down an enemy ship making it 10vs9 but also being able to slow all enemies around it. This sounds more like what a frigate would do to me (and frigates already CAN slow everything around them).

#6 I don’t believe an interceptor is supposed to be a “fast dps ship with some cc” in the first place. I’d rather say it’s a fast ship able to maneuver from battle to battle quickly in order to turn the tide by keeping dangerous enemies occupied with their cc.

15

Frigates: I don’t agree. As it is frigates already have amazing long range capabilities and additionally I believe that a lot of people are already moving according to a mindset of “I am a frigate, I should spend my entire game at my base and snipe/torpedo away”. A frigate is MEANT to be involved in the fighting, supporting the fighters/interceptors during their dogfights. In fact as it stands now I would actually welcome frigate range being nerfed to discourage players from sitting back all the time without trying to fulfill objectives.

i wanted to give them more SUPPORT module range, so that they could actually do more support, right now they need to be WITHIN 4,5km to help the team, thats pretty damn close, to insure you are helping you are within 3km of the enemy, at that range you very fast become the object of “easy mode snipe, nukes, deathrays, minefields, etc.” which can kill you within seconds, or simply just short focus fire by a few fighters which results in the same.

 

on the frigs you simply do not have the capability of fighting cqc alongside fighters/interceptors, and you are best supporting at 4-5km+ get closer then this and you start to get the problems i just explained.

 

i feel like their “disint/torp” abilities needs serious changing in t3+ especially, but also for t1 and t2. their current form promotes a very bad gameplay which most oftend result in their team losing due to this type of play promotion, at t3 its almost useless, at t1 it seems a bit strong due to new people not having the knowledge/skills to deal currectly with it, at t2 its ± depending on the enemy, either it rocks head of them or its useless.

 

i diffinately feel like these abilities are grosely underpowered in most scenarios and they promote a really bad gameplay, so changing for the abilities is needed, i don’t think removing the very long range support is good however since this also adds alot of tactics/strategi to the gameplay (i do however feel that with the current mechanics it promotes a gameplay which is really bad and have no synergy with the rest of your team or any modules you can use).

 

Fighters: Fighters already have amazing self-repair and sustain abilities without frigate support. Take skills like the Aegis or polarized hull or passive modules like the emergency shield barrier. Additionaly, the same as frigates are supposed to support their fighter squadrons, a fighter should also be protecting the frigate and thus be close to said support ship anyway. As for ECM, yes a single fighter going solo can be easily shut down with ECM. That is why there are interceptors in the first place. It’s a teamgame.

self repair? they got no self repair, they can have “repair mentainance” (and i doubt we have to discuss weather or not this is a valid selfrepair method -.-), and they can have the passive module which every one can have, which will be ± just as useless for self repair (its 37 points per second is NOT gonna make you tank anything extra and this sacrifice 45% of your hull o.O which is NO WAY worth it in 99% of the situations.)

so basicly they got no self repairs at all (which is usable compared to other modules in their slots.)

 

i didnt complain that they can get shutdown by ecm?! they aint suppose to be hard to shut down with ecm, sooo?!

 

they got VERY good resist and they are suppose to have this since they are the frontline attackers and they need to be able to restand the raw power of support firing and frontline firing for a while, so this is really a most… their weakness should be interceptors and CC, not lack of sustainability(selfhealing)

 

Interceptors:

#1 not being able to take out frigs. Yes that’s not their job. That’s what a fighter is supposed to do.

#2 not being able to take out fighters. Not true. In a dogfight the faster interceptor with a lot of cc has a clear advantage.

#3 while their main weapon damage is low, they have amazing mobility and can greatly help their team by locking down dangerous enemies while their support is being taken down.

#4 the debuff modules on interceptors have the same range as any other debuff modules. Additionaly abilities like the Federations “plasma web”, the Jerichos “tachyon cocoon” or the empires “microwarp engine” can defineatly not be qualified as low range.

#5 taking your example, in a battle of 10 vs 10 players a single interceptor would thus be able to not only completely lock down an enemy ship making it 10vs9 but also being able to slow all enemies around it. This sounds more like what a frigate would do to me (and frigates already CAN slow everything around them).

#6 I don’t believe an interceptor is supposed to be a “fast dps ship with some cc” in the first place. I’d rather say it’s a fast ship able to maneuver from battle to battle quickly in order to turn the tide by keeping dangerous enemies occupied with their cc.

1: i never wanted them to take out frigs?! where are you getting these idea’s from?! i stated VERY clearly throughout the thread that i want them to be CC!! i even want to nerf their base dps to balance out a hardincrease in CC abilities. please do reread that section again, its well explained in the op.

 

2: this is true, the raw power of the fighter kills the interceptor within seconds of contact, the cc is no where near enough to counter the raw tank and power of the fighter and the fighter have a lot of tool to kill/catch the interceptor.

the interceptor should not “ROLFSTOMP” the fighters, they should simply completely shutdown the fighters with lowering their speed, healing amount, tracking,spread, etc. simply “permanently” debuff them like crazy so they actually get the ability to take them out even though it will take some time to do so, but interceptors should primarily be to Shutdown other ships and keep them in place/preventing them from fighting efficiently and making themself almost impossible to kill for a few ships around them for longer periods of time (needing support ships to take care of them.)

 

3:no reason to really go into the rest. since you have completely misread what i wrote and i can see from your last point we ± agree on what an interceptor should be and thats also what i wrote in the original post.

16

Interceptor is:

Kill the enemy in light speed and flee to another kill. Your role is INTERCEPT enemys, preventing they complete objetives. If you remove the kill abilit from interceptor he will be a complete junk.

17

Frigs:

 

i wanted to give them more SUPPORT module range, so that they could actually do more support, right now they need to be WITHIN 4,5km to help the team, thats pretty damn close

Yes if you give support modules even more range that just encourages campers. As for 4,5km that’s not pretty damn close, that’s a) far, b) a little more then the optimal range of medium/long range weaponry. Pretty much the edge of where a frigate should be.

 

 

at that range you very fast become the object of “easy mode snipe, nukes, deathrays, minefields, etc.” which can kill you within seconds, or simply just short focus fire by a few fighters which results in the same.

Once again this is a teamgame. If a frigate is running around solo that close to the enemy it will be an easy target yes. If it works together with allied fighters and interceptors or nearby frigates, it’s already that much harder to take down.

 

 

at t3 its almost useless

i diffinately feel like these abilities are grosely underpowered in most scenarios.

I can snipe down the average interceptor in 2-3 shots, the average fighter in 5-6. And that is assuming I am going after targets which aren’t being attacked by my allied, which would be contrary to the idea of teamplay. Yes I know I am repeating that word a lot.

Similarily I can torp down a group of interceptors/fighters to at least half their strengh LONG before they reach my allied fighters, making the battle a short and brutal one. Yes, you can not 1hitkill most enemies with snipe or guided torpedo, because they are also meant for support and not mad killing. As they are, they deal massive amounts of dmg and force enemies into hiding/considerably weaken them for your own allies to mop up which is EXACTLY what they are supposed to do.

 

Fighters:

 

self repair? they got no self repair,

Depending on the faction, they can heal almost or more then double their hull/shield in a short amount of time. I call that self repair. And as I said, a fighters main role is near a frigate, not somewhere 10km away

 

 

 

i didnt complain that they can get shutdown by ecm?! they aint suppose to be hard to shut down with ecm, sooo?!

/

all you need to do is 1ecm and he just wasted 2 active slots

 

Interceptors:

 

1: i never wanted them to take out frigs?! where are you getting these idea’s from?! i stated VERY clearly throughout the thread that i want them to be CC!! i even want to nerf their base dps to balance out a hardincrease in CC abilities. please do reread that section again, its well explained in the op.

/

these needs some serious changes i get what they are about but they really dont do their job:

they got an extremely hard time taking out frigs(they will but it takes them FOREVER!! to kill a frig) and they got no chance in hell to take out a fighter (equelly good pilots here).

 

 

I’m getting these ideas from you in your OP

 

 

2: this is true, the raw power of the fighter kills the interceptor within seconds of contact, the cc is no where near enough to counter the raw tank and power of the fighter and the fighter have a lot of tool to kill/catch the interceptor.

Yes, in a straight shootout a Fighter will easily destroy an interceptor. That’s why I said dogfight.

 

 

but interceptors should primarily be to Shutdown other ships and keep them in place/preventing them from fighting efficiently and making themself almost impossible to kill for a few ships around them for longer periods of time

That’s exactly what they are already doing.

 

I am sorry but almost everything you just wrote completely contradicts your OP or ignores important points in my answer. As such I am afraid that I’ll have to return the comment about reading the OP to you.

 

I also feel like I have to repeat, this is a TEAMGAME. Yes, if we took 1on1 situations a lot of your points would be valid. But if the game was about fighting 1on1 we wouldn’t have teams. And for teamfights the ships are fulfilling their roles very well if used properly.

 

Due to the quote limit I hat to fuse some quotes together.

/ means a comparison of your OP and your last post

  • means a fusion of 2 sentences