How Radar Detection Should Work

Currently we have this very basic mechanism for radar detection.

  • If a target ship is behind a giant asteroid you can’t see it (unless your ally sees it).
  • Beyond a certain range you can see a moving target but you can not target it (unless an allay is close enough to target it).
  • Cloaking will have 100% effect, as in you will always be hidden when you cloak.

 

These factors aren’t that all complicated and leaving it probably make the game simplistic. This is what I’d call a semi-static detection system since detection range can change by cloaking or hiding behind something but most of the time it’ll always be the same. If that’s what the game makers are going for so be it.

 

I for one don’t like shallow gameplay. Maybe this stems from a large background of space simulators that I’ve played over years but having very simple gameplay kind of makes me bored. I’m not trying to offend casual gamers or people who like playing easy-to-play games. In fact if I am wrong in the game direction the developers wants and in truth they just want a simple and easy game for anyone to play then disregard this suggestion.

 

 

 

Let’s get the core basics of how a radar (in my opinion) should work.

 

  • LOCATOR can be seen as the sensor of the ship (if they’re gonna add variability to such things) or the ship itself.
  • RANGE is the range at which the LOCATOR can detect in the most standard conditions (explained later).
  • TARGET is the object/ship that the LOCATOR will try to detect.
  • SIGNAL is the ‘loudness’ of the TARGET. Greater the SIGNAL of TARGET the further LOCATOR will detect that TARGET. This property is in percentage (or in decimal) since it multiplies the RANGE of LOCATOR.

 

Now, how do the properties of LOCATOR and SIGNAL fit in togeather? We must have an end point first.

 

  • RELATIVE RANGE is the maximum range a LOCATOR can detect a single TARGET, independent of other TARGETs, unless other TARGETs have (de)buff modifiers that affect team/enemy or (de)buff affects the LOCATOR.

 

Simply applying everything (I’m using something similar to programming maths):

 

RELATIVE RANGE(in m) = RANGE(in m) * SIGNAL(in decimal, or convert into decimal)

 

 

 

The formula above is the most simplistic dynamic detection system. If however we want to include a much more complex system so scouting and ‘cloaking’ have some depth in the game then we need to consider some factors that might dynamically change properties of the formula above.

 

The properties that changes SIGNAL or RANGE:

 

  • WEAPON FIRE, shoot and TARGET SINGAL goes up, it could have a standard value or different by each gun type. There could even be a stealth gun that has almost no or even negative SINGAL effects?
  • SHIP ENGINE, thrusters boost SIGNAL_._ Straife thrusters have little effect. Foward thrust and boosting has the largest effect.
  • ACTIVE ABILITY, some abilities when activated (includes some passive) boost or degrade SIGNAL or RANGE. This is purely for balancing.
  • CLOAKING, percentage drop of SIGNAL. So 25% means new SIGNAL = SINGAL * 0.25.
  • BASE SIGNAL,  all ships will have a base SIGNAL. Interceptors have the lowest and Frigates have the highest.
  • ENVIRONMENT, where the map affects SIGNAL, such as nebula cloud or near-supernova stars could dampen LOCATOR RANGE or TARGET SIGNAL or both. Even objects in the map may affect detection like radioactive cloudes you can shoot through but if TARGET is on the opposite end you cannot target the ship, this is sort of like asteroids so would not go into calculations.

 

Intergrate all this togeather:

 

SIGNAL = (BASE SIGNAL + WEAPON FIRE + ACTIVE ABILITIES) * CLOAKING * sENVIRONMENT(only affects signal)

RANGE = RANGE(of sensor) * ACTIVE ABILITIES * rENVIRONMENT(only affects range)

ENVIRONMENT = sENVIRONMENT * rENVIRONMENT (you can naturally multiply the two)

RELATIVE RANGE = RANGE * SIGNAL * ENVIRONMENT

 

 

 

The final formula is the combination of all the factors that have been mentioned. There can be many many ways to impliment dynamic detections and creates an array of mechanics. I hope it’s easy enough for you to understand. If you don’t then try looking up free allegiance since this idea is based on it… well that game has a much more complex math to the detection but this is far as I’ll go so you don’t burn out of confusion.

 

Please keep this thread alive if you can since radar and detection is depreciated in this game…

I’m all for a more complex game mechanics, count me in.

At last someone who speaks my language, welcome.

 

  As for the detection mechanics i agree, they can use some improvements. However, i and many others do not look at rewriting

base mechanical concepts in a more complex facit as a first means for solution to problems or improvements. Often we find simple works. Eve for example over complicated the game, and as a result hindered the amount of players that are capable of understanding. This is why we have what i like to call the “Grown Up- Kid effect” That is, almost all kids in WoW and almost all adults in Eve. In principle, the harder the mechanics are to understand, the higher and more intelligent the age group.

 

I feel there is an easier way to address the problem. This would include

Adding the mechanic “ship signature” And then altering a few mechanics to recognize or work with.

These would directly relate to detection range of a ship, improving value of modules like detection range CPU MOD.

this would ideally also solve the issue of approach from the side, to allow the rear lines to be weaker and more susceptible to attack.

 

 

lastly, while mercenaries will be added to the game, enabling players to fight for a corp for a temp amount of time

i would like to see pirates, which stealth-related ships (Low signatures)

I think a system similar to WoT would work, only iffy bit is I doubt radio range is an issue in the future.

how about different types of radar?

active radar that gives off a ping much better for actual detection but raises the chance of you being detected as well

passive radar that listens for active radar pings good for trying to run undetected (as the passive can detect the active past its range because the active radars signal has to return) but not good for actually detecting units

so… we need new slot : radar module ?

 

also i kinda wanting if someone cloaking too close to us, like less than 300m, we can see that person vaguely…

Ya i never liked that there was no shimmer or anything that a cloaked ship has. At 1000 m you probably wouldn’t notice anything but at 300 m you probably could notice something if you are actively looking for a ship that just cloaked.

 

Also how would your new system work with allies spotting for you? If they can see something that you can’t would they be able to transfer the data to you like we currently have or is it all just your detection system now? An if they can transfer the data would that increase their own signal as they are now streaming a huge amount of targeting data to your allies? 

 

I don’t know if others would like it but if you implement your new system with the allied streaming information as well but make it so that the detection rate is far lower then it is currently it would open up a whole new part of the game, scouting! You would then need to have ships not only watching your front but also the sides to ensure no interceptors could fly behind the lines completely unseen(sorta like it is now lol) or flying the EMP bomb through a way you just didn’t imagine.

 

But what i propose would make things extremely complex, or at the very least frustrating to a lot of people, mainly due to the fact that you most of the time would just not have people scouting. Also it would be a bit of a complex system which could just be done wrong an make the game very slow paced as well.

 

But i like your idea!

lets not make radar complicated , this is a shooting game , lets not make it a strategy game. this is not like eve-online where you can hide, and change your radar signature, and blah this and blah that… I just want to be in the action, and not spend 5 minutes of every battle adjusting my radar so that I can look for campers, there is enough of them already!!