Got Thar'kthed ?

After having the ‘pleasure’ this weekend to fly frequently against Thar’Gas with Thar’kth gun my conclusion is following:

Revoke the recent buffs of Thar’kth gun !!!

The reason given for improving Thar’Ga and it’s modules / weapon specs was that statistics showed players were not as effective as anticipated.
Well, that might be the case for the majority of players but in the hand of skilled players this new improvements are a deadly combination.
The balance in games with experienced players on this ship is seriously offset. I saw this in tournament and PvP on rank 9-15.
If you don’t want the game experience of most players ruined correct this recent buffs again. Especially Thar’kth is heavily OP.

Nah, figures show it’s completely underpowered…

 

I honestly wish the devs would play the game sometimes. I know they employ a tester team to do that, but personal experience is always better.

8 hours ago, millanbel said:

Nah, figures show it’s completely underpowered…

![:007_2:](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/007_2.png “:007_2:”) ![:fed_lol:](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/fed_lol.png “:fed_lol:”)

P.S.:

Will these weapon come back? Dag’tnith, Ti’lith, Sk’Rah??

Dag_tnith_launcher.jpg

Thar Kth buff changed nothing. 

 

It’s the alien intuition rework that need to be revoked. It’s especially because of this module that Thar Kth is so broken.

 

I mean come on. 86% damage buff is broken with all gunships guns… 

It’s the whole ship, not only alien intuition.
You simply don’t have over 6k dps with any other ship(even destroyers) with so many benefits(small target, fast target, cr etc.).

That gun doesn’t have 6k dps 

The spread is too big for that. 

 

And when you charge, it indirectly reduce the DPS

And the range is quite long to charge (I think it’s 2 seconds). 

So a full charge have something like 2k DPS. 

 

The full dps works only against destroyers and some frigates in very very close range. 

 

Without the damage buff, the EM gun is probably better overhaul. 

1 hour ago, Swifter43021 said:

That gun doesn’t have 6k dps 

The spread is too big for that. 

 

And when you charge, it indirectly reduce the DPS

And the range is quite long to charge (I think it’s 2 seconds). 

So a full charge have something like 2k DPS. 

 

The full dps works only against destroyers and some frigates in very very close range. 

 

Without the damage buff, the EM gun is probably better overhaul. 

Totally disagree. … this weapon in r9-15 one shots interceptors.  Its easy to use and can be fit on other ships other than the tharGa.  If you haven’t come across it on a wolf M you will and it will suck.  I have come up against some of the best players with it and it nets them alot of kills.

13 minutes ago, AdamWest said:

Totally disagree. … this weapon in r9-15 one shots interceptors.  Its easy to use and can be fit on other ships other than the tharGa.  If you haven’t come across it on a wolf M you will and it will suck.  I have come up against some of the best players with it and it nets them alot of kills.

On ships that don’t have Railgun buff the weapon is quite meh (far too big spread).

 

I’m not saying it’s not OP.

But the current hell isn’t because of the power of this gun, but alien intuition combined with crit buff, which allows a 25k damage per shot against standard ships.

 

Without the damage buff we have 6k (12k on crit) at r15. And this, even a inty can survive a lucky crit.

3 minutes ago, Milfeulle said:

I played about 800 battles on Tharga only lost 2 battles from solo queue, you should check my rating and weekly ship kill count  ![:007_2:](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/007_2.png “:007_2:”)

Well, in case anybody questions that Thar’ga is OP … here is the answer.

 

BTW I think I found the problem of Thar Kth.

It’s probably about the fact that I can one shot Transport ships, Hunters, and Predators with this gun.

23 hours ago, Swifter43021 said:

That gun doesn’t have 6k dps 

The spread is too big for that. 

 

And when you charge, it indirectly reduce the DPS

And the range is quite long to charge (I think it’s 2 seconds). 

So a full charge have something like 2k DPS. 

 

The full dps works only against destroyers and some frigates in very very close range. 

 

Without the damage buff, the EM gun is probably better overhaul. 

Assuming you use intuition and overcharge - 50% rate of fire increase reduces charging time to 1.5 second, you can do maximum damage then. Charging REDUCES spread, you seem to imply that it increases it. Just use guidance or two to make sure you can hit interceptors properly, from 2.5 to something like 1.5.

4k dps, with intuition at max, is 7,44 dps.

Twice that for destroyers.

And you say that it is 2k.

11 hours ago, Swifter43021 said:

BTW I think I found the problem of Thar Kth.

It’s probably about the fact that I can one shot Transport ships, Hunters, and Predators with this gun.

And here you confirm that it indeed has incredible damage.

Stop lying.

1 hour ago, Retsved1 said:

Assuming you use intuition and overcharge - 50% rate of fire increase reduces charging time to 1.5 second, you can do maximum damage then. Charging REDUCES spread, you seem to imply that it increases it. Just use guidance or two to make sure you can hit interceptors properly, from 2.5 to something like 1.5.

4k dps, with intuition at max, is 7,44 dps.

Twice that for destroyers.

And you say that it is 2k.

And here you confirm that it indeed has incredible damage.

Stop lying.

I guess you don’t understand the difference between DPS and Damage.

Imagine a cannon :

100k damage per shot -> Enough to one shot a guard.

With a rate of fire of 1/60 (one shot per hour).

DPS ? 1k6 per second. Lower then a singularity cannon for example. Incredible damage, sure. But low DPS.

 

Now let’s go back to Thar Kth.

Rate of fire don’t decrease the time to reach minimal spread AND maximum range -> The only use of rate of fire is when not charging the gun at all.

Both the range increase and spread decrease speed are fixed.

To reach max range, it takes 2 seconds.

To reach minimum spread, it depends on your maximum spread.

-> The maximum spread of Thar Kth is capped at ~14. Everything above don’t increase the spread further. BUT, when charging the gun, everything above 14 is taken into consideration : 20 capped as 14 is the same as 20-1 capped at 14. The base spread of 20 have an initial “charge cooldown” of 1 second to actually start charging.

TLDR :

  • no spread reduction -> 3 seconds to reach minimal spread.

  • Kinetic weapon passive + 50% spread reduction ammo -> 7.5 deg to 0.9 deg -> 1 second to reach minimum spread.

 

 

Now we can calculate the DPS on 3 different cases (assuming you’re using kinetic passive + spread reduction ammo) :

  • Full rate of fire -> one shot per second + 50% with crystal hunger -> 7.5 deg + 1350 - 1600 range depending on r2 implant

  • Minimum spread -> One shot per 2 seconds (reloading + charge). 1.5 seconds with crystal hunger (half of the reloading time) -> 0.9 deg + 1550 - 1800 range

  • Maximum range -> One shot per 3 seconds. No influence with crystal hunger. 0.9 deg + 3000 - 3600 range

 

Considering the gun have a damage on it which can reach exactly 7k at mk4 + 25% weapon damage from passive + 2 10% damage from capacitors we have 3 different DPS separated in 2 variations (crystal hunger)

  • Full rate of fire, no crystal hunger -> 7k damage once per second -> 7k DPS

  • Full rate of fire using crystal hunger -> 7k * 1.5 = 10k5 DPS

  • Minimum spread -> 7k / 2 (once per 2 seconds) -> 3k5 DPS

  • Minimum spread + hunger -> 7k / 1.5 -> 4k6 DPS

  • Maximum range (special or not) -> 7k / 3 -> 2k3 DPS

 

Here’s the “2k dps”

Considering I’m using both r15 weapon + mk4 + 15% weapon damage (r15 node) + 10% damage (r5 node) + 10% damage *2 from capacitors.

I can obviously affirm that a less damaged focused build will have 2k DPS (if not less) using full charge.

 

You’re welcome.

 

 

Now then. 

That’s only the raw dps value. It may seems huge to you.

But don’t forget one thing, the base 7k DPS is having 7.5deg spread and 1k3-1k6 range. Which is impossible to use against anything but frigates and destroyers.

 

Without Alien intuition, the gun is “Balanced”. Slightly more powerful then the usual gun. But also much more complex to use and cost a lot (Spread ammo, kinetic passive).

The broken part comes when Alien Intuition suddenly increase damages : You can now one shot inties and fighters with a crit because it multiply the base damage by 4 (*1.86*2.2). 

 

Without the damage buff from alien intuition, the EM gun better then Thar Kth in most situations.

^hum , you seems to forget the most important thing ![;)](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/002.png “;)”)

yep 2k dps but finaly one shot shoot can deal more damage , this weapon its all about charging weapon to reach max output dmg like as for example a canon gauss , a small dps but can deal huge dmg on one a hit ^^

on any way dps or not , amno speed , critics , dmg and all others stuff from this weapon are not on the scale of all kinectics weapon MK5 .

 

 

22 minutes ago, zzzfrogzzz said:

^hum , you seems to forget the most important thing ![;)](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/002.png “;)”)

yep 2k dps but finaly one shot shoot can deal more damage , this weapon its all about charging weapon to reach max output dmg like as for example a canon gauss , a small dps but can deal huge dmg on one a hit ^^

on any way dps or not , amno speed , critics , dmg and all others stuff from this weapon are not on the scale of all kinectics weapon MK5 .

 

 

I know, and I said it in the first 5 lines of my comment.

 

But no, this weapon is not about charging. It’s about being able to know when it’s better to charge and when a Shrapnel is better.

And yeah, that weapon is stronger then any other fighter guns. So is Thar Ga Tok (EM railgun) right ? I’m pretty sure it is made on purpose. 

 

The problem isn’t about Thar Kth being stronger then other guns (That’s the goal of Ellydium I guess).

Nerfing Thar Kth will just change the OP weapon of the moment to something else.

 

The root of the problem is Alien intuition.

The malus shouldn’t be removed by reboot in the first place. And 86% more damage (combined with a 50% crit chance) is obviously far too much.

 

I mean come on, even a Phaser Flux would one shot an inti with a Alien intuition + crit buff.

In Elite Dangerous, Thargoids will pull you out of supercruise to scan you.

In Star Conflict, Thar’gas however will pull you back to the respawn screen.

On 24/1/2017 at 5:19 PM, Swifter43021 said:

I mean come on, even a Phaser Flux would one shot an inti with a Alien intuition + crit buff.

It just doesn’t work like that.

You can counter a phaser flux build. But you cannot counter a thar’ga without another thar’ga.

 

Everything you could do with a regular ship is pointless when you get one shotted with 250 kin resistence.

Thar’ga is op the way it is just to spill some moneys… Like they did with r14 empire dessy… No wait it’s even worst, since there is no counter to it.

On 23.1.2017 at 2:11 PM, AdamWest said:

in r9-15 one shots interceptors.

in r15 it actually one shots empire gunships occasionally

and even with eb, anti crit implant and brokk link - what it doesnt one shot, it shoots at least in 2 or max 3 shots.

so indeed, the gun is part of the problem, but not the only part.

7 minutes ago, g4borg said:

in r15 it actually one shots empire gunships occasionally

and even with eb, anti crit implant and brokk link - what it doesnt one shot, it shoots at least in 2 or max 3 shots.

so indeed, the gun is part of the problem, but not the only part.

We could discuss about how it can be countered or not. The thrut is, that it can’t be countered.

No  fits will saves you. ![:(](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/003j.png “:(”)

4 hours ago, Spongejohn said:

It just doesn’t work like that.

You can counter a phaser flux build. But you cannot counter a thar’ga without another thar’ga.

 

Everything you could do with a regular ship is pointless when you get one shotted with 250 kin resistence.

Thar’ga is op the way it is just to spill some moneys… Like they did with r14 empire dessy… No wait it’s even worst, since there is no counter to it.

Well, the main point of my comment was about that it’s the ship itself who is OP, not Thar Kth. 

 

When we can fit on a gunship 3 capacitors + 3 cpu + 25% damage + a 50% crit chance and 86% damage buff with 30k survivability and a great mobility…

Then whatever the gun is, it’ll be OP. 

10 minutes ago, Swifter43021 said:

Well, the main point of my comment was about that it’s the ship itself who is OP, not Thar Kth. 

 

When we can fit on a gunship 3 capacitors + 3 cpu + 25% damage + a 50% crit chance and 86% damage buff with 30k survivability and a great mobility…

Then whatever the gun is, it’ll be OP. 

When you can one shot an r15 sp 'ceptor that have 250 raw resistance and a shield volume buff… and on top of that the adaptive shield (who now works only on shield, and apart that only thing that saves you from oneshot atm is EB…), I would start to think that there is something wrong, am I right or no?