give players a choice

[12618661]

Right now people are complaining about weird and unbalanced matches and also about queue times.

 

While I noticed bad matches like T2 vs T3 match (yes the enemy had only T3 ships no T2 used and my team had only 2 T3 ships). I also had a 2v3 match with one bot at each team in T2!

 

I noticed an increase in time to give me a match, while that is unsual compared to before the 911 patch  I would let it slide if it would give me better/fairer matches.

 

So my suggestion is give players a choice if they don’t mind being throw in a match whatever comes along or if they are willing to wait a little bit longer to get a better match.

 

That can be done in game settings or before you get queue.

 

Or course there should be a warning the you restrict the match coice the longer it takes for the game to start.

 

Selection as a drop down could be:

Match only with players of same Tier
Match only with players max 3ranks higher than me

Match me whatever is available right now

 

Also if anything other than “Match me whatever” to should match by highest ranked ship in the slots.

 

What do you think?

 

That should give everyone what they want. This option is only for the PvP Battles and not custom or Sector Quest.

 

Someone may say the PvP is supposed to by like Match me whatever, then I’d say poor concept.
Some players are not in a corp and/or play mostly solo but they still want to have a fair/balanced match so a “Match me whatever” is not what they want to play.

[4242384]

 Look what improved logic to separating players into regions did, it increased queue times and dropped size of the matches tremendously. Why? - current population and some bugs

What you are proposing is fracturing player pool even further into even smaller pieces. Some thing like this will tremendously increase queue time for everyone. Something like this is not achievable with current population, and we are not getting more players until the release. And with player-base  increase, problems like this should be naturally eliminated.

[12618661]

I doubt it will be naturally be eliminated with more players. I don’t see any guarantee or statement of the developers for that.

I also doubt the developers will change the matchmaker back once the game is “released” with the assumption more player now we can go back to fixed tiers.

The queue time will only increase for those who specified a matching with less ranks. The “Match me whatever” can then even be changed to match a wider range of ranks as it is now, for those that just want to play a game without caring anything else.

[1850009]

simply forcing games after 5 minutes is the best option

[system]

simply forcing games after 5 minutes is the best option

But not with THIS matchmaker, because they’ll be 3v3 matches with bots, and I’m still to see someone who loves playing a continuous 1 on 1 duel with 2 spectators (bots) per side. The first M in MMO is for Massive, I’m tired of playing a singleplayer game.

[12618661]

simply forcing games after 5 minutes is the best option

that could be an option too. Just give people a choice. Since it is a beta so why not try it out and see whow it goes.

 

But not with THIS matchmaker, because they’ll be 3v3 matches with bots, and I’m still to see someone who loves playing a continuous 1 on 1 duel with 2 spectators (bots) per side. The first M in MMO is for Massive, I’m tired of playing a singleplayer game.

Okay forgot about that.

Could add an additional drop down option “Do you mind playing with bots: Yes/No”

[4242384]

I doubt it will be naturally be eliminated with more players. I don’t see any guarantee or statement of the developers for that.

I also doubt the developers will change the matchmaker back once the game is “released” with the assumption more player now we can go back to fixed tiers.

The queue time will only increase for those who specified a matching with less ranks. The “Match me whatever” can then even be changed to match a wider range of ranks as it is now, for those that just want to play a game without caring anything else.

It will increase queue for every one because you are subtracting people from w/e setting pool.

And why do you think devs are going to revert back to fixed tiers? Current system suppose to work with ±2 ranks in matchmaking(untill it is affected by squads, but it is not my point, i am talking about solo matchmaking currently), and that logic is getting fucked up when there is no one to match together it actually already “Forces” matches and that’s why they are so unbalanced. System is not perfect, but core logic is there.

And i am absolutely against fixed locket tiers, ±1 rank would be perfect, would kill queue times though now even further, hopefully with sizeble playerbase they tune it to ±1 rank and ±2 for maxed out ships

[12618661]

Guessing and assuming or even hoping is not knowing! This is a beta version as you always say. So let’s try it out! 

 

An additional option should be also the minimum team size starting at 2 or 3 players per team up to I’d say at least 6 players per team.

 

The default of all match settings after the patch or the first PvP Batlle ever should be empty and the player has to chose what he wants or he doesn’t get queued. After the first time making these settings  it should be stored in the game store file/location and can be change easily before queue for the a game.

[12618661]

Oh. Just added a Poll.

[3402178]

Here are my thoughts:

 

This is apparently how the official matchmaking works right now:

Distribution of queues by rank and rating

 

My suggestion is simple: the “odd” numbered queues should all line up with a single tier, and be set as fixed-tier matches. Players have the option to select “normal” or “fixed tier” matchmaking when they queue. If they select fixed, they can only be put in the odd queue associated with their tier; Q1 for T1, Q3 for T2, Q5 for T3, Q7 for T4 and Q9 for T5.

 

However, to avoid long queue times, the matchmaking will also place normal players into these games so long as two criteria are met:

1. The highest ranked ship of the normal player falls within the fixed tier rank bracket.

2. The matchmaking score of the queuing player is within an acceptable range.

 

When squadding, a squad leader can only select “Fixed Tier” if all players in the queue qualify for the same tier.

 

So, let’s look at some examples:

 

EXAMPLE A

Bill has just purchased his first Rank 10 ship and wants to try it out. He queues for standard, and because of his low DSR and poor equipment, the game puts him in a waiting position between Q6 and Q7. Because the game feels Q6 is a better match for Bill’s MM score, it will try its best to put him in a Q6 match. After 4-5 minutes, if no suitable game is found, the matchmaking will begin to look at Q7 as well and put him into the first Q6 or Q7 it can launch. This is to maximise the odds of Bill finding a game, even if it might not be the best game for him.

 

EXAMPLE B

For his next match, Bill decides to try the Fixed Tier queue. Now his only option is Q7. Even though the matchmaker thinks he belongs in Q6, and can launch a game with him in within a minute or two, it will keep him out and waiting. However, because his DSR is quite low the game decides to give a helpful little popup when he clicks “Fixed Tier” matchmaking. This message says “ATTENTION: Based on your skill level and equipment we recommend standard matchmaking. Do you wish to proceed with Fixed Tier matchmaking?” Bill remembers how his last match was against T4 pilots with vastly better gear than his, and chooses to heed the warning. He decides not to queue for Fixed Tier.

 

EXAMPLE C

It was a wonderful day on the forums: people were posting gifs of birds singing, memes frolicked happily, and the pilots of NASA and WPK wiled away the hours questioning each other’s parentage and suggesting that the opposing Corporation enjoyed fornicating with donkeys. It was all good fun! But then someone in NASA insisted that silent “u” in words like “colour” was pointless, and there was outrage! Such a blatant attacks on the English Language go unpunished, and so both Corps rushed to battle!

4 NASA pilots immediately jumped in their T3 ships and went for standard matchmaking. Meanwhile, 4 WPK pilots jumped in their T3 ships and went for Fixed Tier. The matchmaker placed the WPK squad in Q5 instantly, but then it noticed that the NASA squad, which was floating in the Q6 matchmaking bracket because of their skill level, could be matched into the Q5 queue. This would balance the WPK squad and allow the match to launch, so that is precisely what happened!

 

 

So, the summary of this concept for you all:

 

With this progression system, there should not be a significant, if any increase to matchmaking times. If anything, matchmaking times would decrease because the fixed tier queue has a much broader scope for matchmaking - it simply pulls in any player with a ship within the three ranks of its assigned tier. This can be done quite reliably as a way to launch people after a 5 minute wait; simply dump them into the Fixed Queue and then drag in other players to try and produce a balanced match.

 

Moreover, this system allows people to vote with their feet as to what kind of matchmaking they want, and could well produce some potentially unseen data. It might be that people like Fixed Tiers a lot more and rarely used standard. It might be that Standard is more popular when people are starting out in a tier, prefering to have their R7 ships matched with R6, and then they swap to Fixed once they have their foot in the door, so to speak.

 

In particular, I would expect a matchmaking queue like this to prove beyond all doubt that Corporations want Fixed Tier matchmaking.

 

A change like this is far better than any in-game poll; it’s a poll where people vote by matchmaking. Devs could set up a system to monitor what modes are being queued for by what level of player, the average launch times, the average game size, etc. and then they would have real data to work with. Best of all, we’d finally get the matchmaking system we want. All of us. Fixed Tier or the abomination we have to put up with now - you can pick and choose your method of play.

[9062150]

But not with THIS matchmaker, because they’ll be 3v3 matches with bots, and I’m still to see someone who loves playing a continuous 1 on 1 duel with 2 spectators (bots) per side. The first M in MMO is for Massive, I’m tired of playing a singleplayer game.

 

That afirmation reminded me of the game Defiance, the coolest 3rd person shooter single player MMO. (phasing dont work and such).

 

But, i agree that fragmenting even more the queues will make it stall. Noone will be able to get a game since we DONT HAVE PLAYERS.

 

For this game to have a slight chance of being fun, is if they had 25000 players on peak times. But they dont get that because they prob only invest into russian publicity, ignoring the rest of the world. Or they simply dont have cash to increase their infrastructure.

[4242384]

Here are my thoughts:

 

This is apparently how the official matchmaking works right now:

Distribution of queues by rank and rating

 

My suggestion is simple: the “odd” numbered queues should all line up with a single tier, and be set as fixed-tier matches. Players have the option to select “normal” or “fixed tier” matchmaking when they queue. If they select fixed, they can only be put in the odd queue associated with their tier; Q1 for T1, Q3 for T2, Q5 for T3, Q7 for T4 and Q9 for T5.

 

However, to avoid long queue times, the matchmaking will also place normal players into these games so long as two criteria are met:

1. The highest ranked ship of the normal player falls within the fixed tier rank bracket.

2. The matchmaking score of the queuing player is within an acceptable range.

 

When squadding, a squad leader can only select “Fixed Tier” if all players in the queue qualify for the same tier.

 

So, let’s look at some examples:

 

EXAMPLE A

Bill has just purchased his first Rank 10 ship and wants to try it out. He queues for standard, and because of his low DSR and poor equipment, the game puts him in a waiting position between Q6 and Q7. Because the game feels Q6 is a better match for Bill’s MM score, it will try its best to put him in a Q6 match. After 4-5 minutes, if no suitable game is found, the matchmaking will begin to look at Q7 as well and put him into the first Q6 or Q7 it can launch. This is to maximise the odds of Bill finding a game, even if it might not be the best game for him.

 

EXAMPLE B

For his next match, Bill decides to try the Fixed Tier queue. Now his only option is Q7. Even though the matchmaker thinks he belongs in Q6, and can launch a game with him in within a minute or two, it will keep him out and waiting. However, because his DSR is quite low the game decides to give a helpful little popup when he clicks “Fixed Tier” matchmaking. This message says “ATTENTION: Based on your skill level and equipment we recommend standard matchmaking. Do you wish to proceed with Fixed Tier matchmaking?” Bill remembers how his last match was against T4 pilots with vastly better gear than his, and chooses to heed the warning. He decides not to queue for Fixed Tier.

 

EXAMPLE C

It was a wonderful day on the forums: people were posting gifs of birds singing, memes frolicked happily, and the pilots of NASA and WPK wiled away the hours questioning each other’s parentage and suggesting that the opposing Corporation enjoyed fornicating with donkeys. It was all good fun! But then someone in NASA insisted that silent “u” in words like “colour” was pointless, and there was outrage! Such a blatant attacks on the English Language go unpunished, and so both Corps rushed to battle!

4 NASA pilots immediately jumped in their T3 ships and went for standard matchmaking. Meanwhile, 4 WPK pilots jumped in their T3 ships and went for Fixed Tier. The matchmaker placed the WPK squad in Q5 instantly, but then it noticed that the NASA squad, which was floating in the Q6 matchmaking bracket because of their skill level, could be matched into the Q5 queue. This would balance the WPK squad and allow the match to launch, so that is precisely what happened!

 

 

So, the summary of this concept for you all:

 

With this progression system, there should not be a significant, if any increase to matchmaking times. If anything, matchmaking times would decrease because the fixed tier queue has a much broader scope for matchmaking - it simply pulls in any player with a ship within the three ranks of its assigned tier. This can be done quite reliably as a way to launch people after a 5 minute wait; simply dump them into the Fixed Queue and then drag in other players to try and produce a balanced match.

 

Moreover, this system allows people to vote with their feet as to what kind of matchmaking they want, and could well produce some potentially unseen data. It might be that people like Fixed Tiers a lot more and rarely used standard. It might be that Standard is more popular when people are starting out in a tier, prefering to have their R7 ships matched with R6, and then they swap to Fixed once they have their foot in the door, so to speak.

 

In particular, I would expect a matchmaking queue like this to prove beyond all doubt that Corporations want Fixed Tier matchmaking.

 

A change like this is far better than any in-game poll; it’s a poll where people vote by matchmaking. Devs could set up a system to monitor what modes are being queued for by what level of player, the average launch times, the average game size, etc. and then they would have real data to work with. Best of all, we’d finally get the matchmaking system we want. All of us. Fixed Tier or the abomination we have to put up with now - you can pick and choose your method of play.

 And here is an Example D

xKostyan had a very bad day at work, and in a very bad mood, he goes into the game and load all of his maxed out purple R9 ships OR T3 premiums that are R8s for MM(i still don’t understand why lol) and then i choose fixed tiers. “Every one” is “happy”.

 Your option for “Odd” pools with fixed tier is elimination the whole purpose of the system by having an ability to provide maximum power within a tier for maxed out ships of highest rank per tier.

[3402178]

I have no idea what you were trying to say in that last post Kostyan.

Are you saying this would defeat the whole point of mixed tiers? Well, that IS the point! A lot of people (more than half certainly) want Fixed Tiers. Some don’t, so for them there is an option for mixed tier matchmaking.

When it turns out the majority of people are queuing for fixed tier matches, the Devs can finally abandon mixed tiers and speed up matchmaking for everyone.

[6864012]

The only thing fixed tiers will bring is a lot of people farming newb1es with rank 6 or rank 9 full purple ships.

Fixed tiers are only ego building and unfair for new players.

[3402178]

Not true; the Devs could have multiple queues per tier. Low levels would only face high levels if there were too few players to match them properly.

[6864012]

Not true; the Devs could have multiple queues per tier. Low levels would only face high levels if there were too few players to match them properly.

Like, oh surprise!!! Like now!!

We have average 1 min waiting time at peak hour with the current matchmaking, with +3 ranks algorithms, and you want to make more queues!?

I would prefer a hundred times to face a full squad of Esb premium full purple ships than waiting 10 mins per game.

In fact I have faced them today several times and I learned some new tricks and builds.

[4242384]

A lot of people (more than half certainly) want Fixed Tiers. Some don’t, so for them there is an option for mixed tier matchmaking.

1. First of all, I am very curios on what data this claim is based on, phrases like these “your player base”,“majority of the players”, “everyone” are very common coming out of certain group of people, and yet they still have not provided any freezable data to back up they claims and what allows them to speak for the whole or majority of the player base.

The only thing that could be possible used in claims like this is Ingame Matchmaking poll that have happened some month ago (not the one from November but much earlier) and i remember that poll and after close examination even that poll does NOT back a claim on majority of a population for fixed tiers.

That poll had 4 or 5 options and I don’t recall all of them, only thing that I do remember is that results could have been divided into 3 categories

• Fixed

• Mixed

• Don’t care (and 4th option was related to don’t care regarding solo MatchMaking)

I want you to note that FIXED tiers option was line #1 and here I am gonna throw your own argument on how many players did not read the poll and voted 1st line only for free gold.

• Total %% value on Fixed tiers was at around 35%

• Mixed at 20%-25%

• The rest (don’t care) combined was at about 50%

So even if we ignore possibility of people blindly voting without reading for Fixed tiers it is only 35% of a player base BACK THAN, not nearly a majority.

And now lets assume that 5-10% voted for free gold into line 1 - what do we have ? dividing that 10% into ~ 3.3%+3.3%+3.3% as of Fixed+Mixed+Don’t Care we have relatively even distribution of people caring for fixed and mixed tiers with majority not giving a dam.

1st Version of mixed tiers implementation was indeed far from ideal, it is still not but it has been tuned and ranks spread was tightened up significantly to meet ±2 tiers and including your wining streak and amount of gear on your ship

2. Now regarding the mixed tier balance (SOLO matchmaking, example is T3, squad factors are not taken into account)

Fact #1

90% os lower ranked ships within a tier are never maxed out on gear, they are only passing through ships (R7 and R8)

#2 Your queue rating is dependant on your

-win %%

-gear of your ships

-your highest ship

#3 for the most part Maxed out ships are very close in performance vs half synergized mk1-mk2 ships of 2 ranks above

The only way to balance fixed tiers in power is to create separate tiers within a tier i.e. R7+8 locked out of R9s, which doesn’t make sense because R9s easily hold their ground vs r10/r11 (Because r10/r11 are NOT maxed out or/and piloted by garbage pilots)

There never be an option or possibility to maxed out ships and reach max power within a tier and be allowed into the game with much-much weaker entry level ships

Basically logic behind current matchmaking is there and very well though out, the only thing is missing a playerbase, as soon as there is a lack of pilots in queue there are those unbalanced anomalies with very small sizes and discrepancy in ranks, devs could lock out those cases, but there are so many players complaining about long queue times when there is no one online. Devs just trying to cater to everyone with these trade offs, but until there is sizable player base after release and advertising department taking over, it is not the time to change matchmaking to anything. It works really well right now.

[6820689]

I would prefer a hundred times to face a full squad of Esb premium full purple ships than waiting 10 mins per game.

Exaggeration can be fine, hyperbole is not.  I imagine 95% of the players would quit if they faced ESB every match.

 

So even if we ignore possibility of people blindly voting without reading for Fixed tiers it is only 35% of a player base BACK THAN, not nearly a majority.

And now lets assume that 5-10% voted for free gold into line 1 - what do we have ? dividing that 10% into ~ 3.3%+3.3%+3.3% as of Fixed+Mixed+Don’t Care we have relatively even distribution of people caring for fixed and mixed tiers with majority not giving a dam.

Only focusing on the voting option, note that the current “I don’t care” option at the bottom has the majority of votes.  People are not focusing on “pick number one and get GS” even though often option one has the most votes.  Right now option number three is in second place.

 

If you’re thinking of a conspiracy of the devs rigging the votes, xxxx that.  The game has a largely Russian playbase but I imagine based on economic reasons that the devs really, really want to keep everyone west of Russia.  At the same time, for a free to play game, they are absolutely dependent on getting people to first enjoy the game and then to pay.  Most match maker problems are due solely to a small playerbase, but not an inherent flaw in the match maker.  We’re waiting until advertising so we can get more players to get better teams.

 

Do the devs sometimes screw up?  The answer is, “are you human?”

[12618661]

1. First of all, I am very curios on what data this claim is based on, phrases like these “your player base”,“majority of the players”, “everyone” are very common coming out of certain group of people, and yet they still have not provided any freezable data to back up they claims and what allows them to speak for the whole or majority of the player base.

The only thing that could be possible used in claims like this is Ingame Matchmaking poll that have happened some month ago (not the one from November but much earlier) and i remember that poll and after close examination even that poll does NOT back a claim on majority of a population for fixed tiers.

That poll had 4 or 5 options and I don’t recall all of them, only thing that I do remember is that results could have been divided into 3 categories

• Fixed

• Mixed

• Don’t care (and 4th option was related to don’t care regarding solo MatchMaking)

I want you to note that FIXED tiers option was line #1 and here I am gonna throw your own argument on how many players did not read the poll and voted 1st line only for free gold.

• Total %% value on Fixed tiers was at around 35%

• Mixed at 20%-25%

• The rest (don’t care) combined was at about 50%

So even if we ignore possibility of people blindly voting without reading for Fixed tiers it is only 35% of a player base BACK THAN, not nearly a majority.

And now lets assume that 5-10% voted for free gold into line 1 - what do we have ? dividing that 10% into ~ 3.3%+3.3%+3.3% as of Fixed+Mixed+Don’t Care we have relatively even distribution of people caring for fixed and mixed tiers with majority not giving a dam.

1st Version of mixed tiers implementation was indeed far from ideal, it is still not but it has been tuned and ranks spread was tightened up significantly to meet ±2 tiers and including your wining streak and amount of gear on your ship

2. Now regarding the mixed tier balance (SOLO matchmaking, example is T3, squad factors are not taken into account)

Fact #1

90% os lower ranked ships within a tier are never maxed out on gear, they are only passing through ships (R7 and R8)

#2 Your queue rating is dependant on your

-win %%

-gear of your ships

-your highest ship

#3 for the most part Maxed out ships are very close in performance vs half synergized mk1-mk2 ships of 2 ranks above

The only way to balance fixed tiers in power is to create separate tiers within a tier i.e. R7+8 locked out of R9s, which doesn’t make sense because R9s easily hold their ground vs r10/r11 (Because r10/r11 are NOT maxed out or/and piloted by garbage pilots)

There never be an option or possibility to maxed out ships and reach max power within a tier and be allowed into the game with much-much weaker entry level ships

Basically logic behind current matchmaking is there and very well though out, the only thing is missing a playerbase, as soon as there is a lack of pilots in queue there are those unbalanced anomalies with very small sizes and discrepancy in ranks, devs could lock out those cases, but there are so many players complaining about long queue times when there is no one online. Devs just trying to cater to everyone with these trade offs, but until there is sizable player base after release and advertising department taking over, it is not the time to change matchmaking to anything. It works really well right now.

 

You still assume that with more players it’ll fix itself. But no one can say for sure if that it will be the case or even what are the odds for one or the other. So if the current matchmaking also doesn’t work properly after the final release are the Dev’s going to make a 180 and go back to fixed tiers?

 

The other problem right now with this mixed tier mess is the Developers have a hard time or it’s even impossible to balance the game. So if after more players, everyone gets a proper match can the Dev’s ensure now that it will be balanced without have any comparable data now?

 

But back to topic. The question is not who is right about mixed or fixed tiers. The question is to give players a choice and test out what happens. They can always disable the option if it doesn’t work out.

[4242384]

Only focusing on the voting option, note that the current “I don’t care” option at the bottom has the majority of votes.  People are not focusing on “pick number one and get GS” even though often option one has the most votes.  Right now option number three is in second place.

I was simply referring to post like this and then all the references to this statement with assumption that it was a major factor on polls :)).

 

For the in-game poll, I would suggest you move “I don’t know what this poll is about” to Option A - a lot of players I spoke to said they just vote for the first option to get GS, so it would reduce potential bias.

Already a huge discrepancy between in game and forum poll. Guess where that discrepancy is? Option A!

 

Devs… Antibus… whoever I need to be talking to… please listen to us for once on these things. Option A is the option people vote when they just want Gold Standards. Please get into the habit of making Option A the “don’t know, don’t care” option.

 

Because we are now going to have a repeat of last time; we do not want Option A, but you are not going to listen because your in-game poll is biased.

And VOTE A was the Exact vote for FIXED TIERS

Funny part that no matter the result back than there was still an out cry for conspiracy and rigged votes because it was contradicting believes and desires of certain individuals

I am the last one who believes in any “conspiracy” here.