Game braking inbalance

*Disclaimer: I want to turn this thread into useful info as well as a place to lash out our inner rage. This post was edited to become more coherent and to address certain areas of the OP-ness of the infamous new alien ship.*

  • Introduction

I don’t usually post stuff on these forums but this will be a rant. Reason being are the new alien ships, lets start off with why they are overpowered. First of all kudos to the two players whom I used for reference in the screenshots who used the exploit, nothing against you in particular.

  • Real world/ in game performance contemplation

Alright here I go: There should not be ANY possible way whatsoever where two or in some instances  ONE yes ONE tar ga ship can hold off an entire team ( without support whatsoever: see xlMaXlx channel) and manage to get astronomically high scores and kills. Let me continue, we are talking about a scenario where two pilots in tandem can not be killed by the focus fire of at least 10 people at pointblank range, and with the help of the balanced special modules manage to regenerate beyond good grief, while having immense and ridiculous tanking capabilities.

  • Issues regarding the obscenely strong armament and reset mechanics

Couple the strong survivability with a set of two ridiculous weapons and you have a disaster in terms of game balance. I am not the kind of pilot that gets butthurt about being spawncamped a couple of times, that stuff happens, but the tar ga business is FRUSTRATING on a whole new level (my encounters). For me it was game braking and completely ruined my experience for the past few weeks. At first I didn’t encouter them that much and surely they were kind of managable up to tier 9. But my freaking hell how come something this insane get passed from the testing phases, its ok if the developers make slightly broken ships to boost sales, but not ruin the entire game with such power creep. My last match wasn’t even over and these two players alone managed to single-handedly get about 35 kills. Needless to say my frigate  had all 110 resistances hull, and the pesky crystal devil killed me in flat out 2.5 seconds with exactly 3 shots, I kid you not. In other words in a straight up dogfight, the thar ga has an easier time hitting you and whilst doing so at the end regenerate whatever damage you have dealt.

There is no POSSIBLE counterplay to such a ship, almost regardless of their build, hell I have seen rank 12-13 tar gas decimate entire teams just like their rank 15 (rip) brothers. Any person that has encountered them in battle will know what I am talking about.

  • Health/ Tank issue from personal encounter (s)

Also regarding how they seemingly rack up so many kills and cant seem to die: I had the premium r12 empire gunship, all purple modules, r15 rapid fire kinetic gun, beautifully setup having 100% crit with active module and a hell of alot of dps with overdrive, 10+ freaking seconds of constant fire with more than 90% accuracy im hitting an enemy tar ga, the bugger’s hull hp just could NOT diminish, I watched helplessly as my allies fell one by one, and his health and shield just tanked everything. I know from my experience of shooting fighters with gunships how much damage I can dish out with all cool downs, and in turn how much I can relatively tank, I cannot begin to imagine how on earth sustained fire from mind you rank 15 ships of various types CANT bring down one single enemy ship an entire match. And gaijin forbid if you actually face these things with a more fragile ship the fight ends up in 2-4 seconds depending on setups. Before some one comments git gud or l2p, I consider myself a worthy foe and a somewhat skilled player with experience flying pretty much all sorts of ships. 

Please note that I gave some suggestions regarding a possible fix further down in the comment and reply section.

Ps: before some “elitist” comes and claims that these results could be achieved or replicated with two mjolnirs or any other ships whatsoever *not talking about kill count, but the matter in which they do it: eg no counterplay* - my a$$ they can’t !

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Nah, Thar’ga is underpowered, that’s why it was buffed in the last patch. Data showed it was a bad ship :confused:

TLDR make it shorter or in paragraphs please but i reckon its about tharga being a game breaker?

Agree 101%.

I just hope, that ellydium snotships wont make the other three factions completely obsolete. I have a bad feeling about this, though…

SC leagues 2017: more ellydium equals more win.

29 minutes ago, ORCA1911 said:

TLDR make it shorter or in paragraphs please but i reckon its about tharga being a game breaker?

Thar’ga its a bit funny ^^

i’ve unlock r7 without bluebrint and the basic stuff i can all ready do that :

  • warp

  • get a 1300pt/s regen shield when ennemy hit me ( no couldown )

  • above the same after 5 sec without do nothing ( no couldown )

  • i lost my shield , i deal 3000 dmg AOE on 1500m

  • with cpu , i can have a boost more 10% on dmg weapon

  • use my special module , repair my hull , get a boost

and i can go more fast than inti …& covers ops on T3

in any way , we can stack actif and passive bonus that make this ship no need support from a command , ingé .on close combat dogfight

yep a bit OP

get lucky , some module and weapon can be mount on other gunship ^^

 

 

 

Thar’Ga is broken I get it.

No one will argue with you about that.

Little hint: We need a nerf? I guess everyone agrees. It will happen.
I can’t really be specific on this though, and the result may not be overwhelming or it may be. No detailed information can and will be given.

16 minutes ago, OmegaFighter said:

Thar’Ga is broken I get it.

No one will argue with you about that.

Little hint: We need a nerf? I guess everyone agrees. It will happen.

no need a big nerf ![;)](<fileStore.core_Emoticons>/emoticons/002.png “;)”)

its all about scale with other module and weapon , i just check for example MK5 weapon kinetic on T3 , all around 400-600 and this alien get 900 dmg . its the same matters for modules

and may be add some couldown :

  • combat generator and stactic shield ( above 45-60 sec )

  • matter absober the same

  • alien intuition up to 40 sec

 

I know the Thar’Ga is horrible, but Destroyers are still overpowered if it doesn’t face a good Thar’Ga.

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Welp, but unfortunately Thar’Gas are getting less rare everyday.

On a side note, in MY opinion.

Spoiler

Feels like (Money spent * Skill in money spending + Skill = Performance ingame)

 

15 minutes ago, justinleea said:

I know the Thar’Ga is horrible, but Destroyers are still overpowered if it doesn’t face a good Thar’Ga.

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Are you implying you are a good Destroyer… huehuehue

Whoa, thanks for all the replies, sorry that it wasn’t that well formulated (fixed now as of last edit). Perhaps my rage after the matches got me writing a bit too dramatic. Still as I wrote earlier it takes a lot to get me startled, even though I hate to be the one complaining I think that a line had to be drawn (tier 1 puns lul).

In regards to destroyers, as some of you pointed in this thread they are on the strong side, but unlike the thar ga they do have some obvious weaknesses and can be dealt with. They are very slow by nature and are pretty big too, they are prone to explosive damage and certain weapons. Positioning, take alot of time to relocate, can suffer from module damage etc. (well the vacuum cleaner vigiliants are probably too strong)

When played to their strength by someone with good positioning they can be a menace in all ranks, but fighting them doesn’t feel overwhelming or unfair unlike the main culprit of this thread. I will certainly abstain from high tier PVP until some changes have been made.

Because I love this game, I will try to give some basic _ constructive criticism _. *disclaimer I don’t currently own that ship* So far the main culprit seems to be the ludicrous regeneration. The second big problem is the abnormally high weapon strength: overall very forgiving to use, highly accurate (from observing gameplay), rather high velocity and of course the big damage numbers (both single hits and DPM).

The concept I really like, it is meant to reward high risk plays with a great reward, but in the case of the Thar Ga the risk part sort of is too low because we have a high damage output coupled with high survivability and regen. Its literally put in gaming terms a snowballing machine that is relatively safe to get going, and in doing so it clearly makes entire teams obsolete.

In short: The easy to fix part is simple damage reduction, velocity decrease, cooldown increase etc. Now for the harder part, I would recommend two plans (while respecting the high risk/reward mechanic).

1: Drastically increase the cool down between the activations of the passive module - meaning that if one goes to reckless, dying ships wont sustain it forever. This type of nerf retains the huge power level, but makes players chose their attacks more carefully : weighing if they should engage certain enemies, calculating the sustain if they go up close to finish a low hp ship etc…

2: Reduce the healing amount by at least 20-30%. In doing that this would still allow the most skilled players (cough*chaotic circling and pew pew) to go on rampages but would at the same time allow a well coordinated wing or a few teammates to focus them down should they overextend.

I would love to hear your suggestions, and or opinion on my criticism.

 

Just now, mutsami said:

First of all kudos to the two players whom I used for reference in the screenshots who used the exploit, nothing against you in particular.

What exploit? I use Thar’ga to play r9 tournment vs elite squads that has Thar’gas and still manage to obtain high score and kill counts with high ping. What is it that make my Thar’ga different than theirs? Regen is good but once you get focus fired there’s no way out. I don’t have good ping to dog fight so I choose the dive method. On the other hand, I have no idea why devs decided to buff Thar’ga from the last patch.

 

“Ayayayaj!”“Ayayayaj!”“Ayayayaj!”

P38s_Targa.jpg

[“Pistols in space”, Give us more Thar’gas - too many Zero-n00b players these days …, SC 2017]

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Just now, mutsami said:

Ps: before some “elitist” comes and claims that these results could be achieved or replicated with two mjolnirs or any other ships whatsoever *not talking about kill count, but the matter in which they do it: eg no counterplay* - my a$$ they can’t !

I used to do that with two Saw One, until devs roll out destroyers. I believe in the future devs will balance Thar’ga by introducing supa dupa alien engie that are also unkillable. Think about it, Thar’ga is just a gunship that’s focus on damage, engie is a ship focus on healing, next major patch people gonna complain about enemy alien engies.

2 minutes ago, Milfeulle said:

I used to do that with two Saw One, until devs roll out destroyers. I believe in the future devs will balance Thar’ga by introducing supa dupa alien engie that are also unkillable. Think about it, Thar’ga is just a gunship that’s focus on damage, engie is a ship focus on healing, next major patch people gonna complain about enemy alien engies.

Wasn’t it supposed to be the recon that will get released next?

Why we(okay I’m not)/you don’t blame destroyer anymore? They killed SC!!!
They just need teamwork! They are easy to kill via teamwork!

/nonsense end

2 hours ago, Milfeulle said:

I used to do that with two Saw One, until devs roll out destroyers. I believe in the future devs will balance Thar’ga by introducing supa dupa alien engie that are also unkillable. Think about it, Thar’ga is just a gunship that’s focus on damage, engie is a ship focus on healing, next major patch people gonna complain about enemy alien engies.

Well it can’t be helped I guess, I have this feeling alien engies will be even more un-killable. But until then a maxed out Thar’ga at r15 does not have any equal in terms of performance in a long shot.

 

4 hours ago, Milfeulle said:

What exploit? I use Thar’ga to play r9 tournment vs elite squads that has Thar’gas and still manage to obtain high score and kill counts with high ping. What is it that make my Thar’ga different than theirs? Regen is good but once you get focus fired there’s no way out. I don’t have good ping to dog fight so I choose the dive method. On the other hand, I have no idea why devs decided to buff Thar’ga from the last patch.

I compared flying the Thar’ga overall as an exploit, rank 9 tourneys and pvp are very fair and balanced so far *dart and gargoyle never forget cough*. On the other hand I’ve seen just how hopelessly powerful a single r15 Thar’ga can be. I’ve had the bad luck to encounter a certain ace by the nick " xlMaXlx " that just completely annihilated our team pretty much alone. He was also the team captain mind you, needless to say as such he should have received proper focus fire, but alas we lost.

4 hours ago, xKostyan said:

“Ayayayaj!”“Ayayayaj!”“Ayayayaj!”

“Jajajajajjaja ?”

2 hours ago, Lord_Xenon said:

Why we(okay I’m not)/you don’t blame destroyer anymore? They killed SC!!!
They just need teamwork! They are easy to kill via teamwork!

/nonsense end

Their presence apparently changed the entire dynamic of the games in certain modes, and were certainly OP before the nerf. The thar ga from what I encountered in the hands of a competent pilot is pretty much INERT to teamwork or at least in randoms, again did you read about the whole 2v15 part?

4 hours ago, avarshina said:

 

[“Pistols in space”, Give us more Thar’gas - too many Zero-n00b players these days …, SC 2017]

el33tium corporation ships = more oppressive than US foreign policy

 

5 hours ago, Milfeulle said:

 

Regen is good but once you get focus fired there’s no way out.

 

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11 hours ago, Scar6 said:

Agree 101%.

I just hope, that ellydium snotships wont make the other three factions completely obsolete. I have a bad feeling about this, though…

SC leagues 2017: more ellydium equals more win.

You mean like SC leaguas 2016: more destroyers more win!?

They have to make new ships slightly better than old ones to motivate people to actually spend money on them…

At first people cryed about the Secret projects, then they cryed about rank 8 destroyers, rank 11 destroyers and finally rank 14 destroyers… Now it is thar’gas turn… don’t you get the pattern?