I love playing tier one pretty much base mods and ship load outs. I play all three types of craft and you have to adapt to the battle. If the enemy has 3+ Frigs, go Fighter and fly about 3k up and over the battle field below and drop them a visit if you have all your missiles you should be able to destroy at least two fatties. If the enemies are loaded with 50% more intercepts then go Frig and snipe them, three shots are pretty much a done deal. If those fat kids in the back are keeping you down you need to use cover and if attacking them you need to fly straight and jerk sharply every 4 seconds if not I’ll be laughing as your debris coats me in victory…
A simple solution would be to just have the tier 1 frigates not have special powers. Let them gain their snipe (or drones) at T2.
i love when people are completely ignoring all the actual good solution that have been posted in this thread -.- just shows the complete incompetence of these people… so sad
I love when people think that if someone has a different opinion, they are incompetent. So sad.
Think what he means Dem is that there are already solutions to the problem, IF people will just accept it. All the more serious/drastic tweaking is just solutions looking for a problem.
When he uses the word ‘incompetent’, it isn’t a friendly note about in-game solutions. It’s derisive of other players.
At T1, most of the ‘solutions’ to sniping don’t currently exist. Ships are slower, have fewer HP, no access to advanced modules…all the things that mitigate the problem at T2.
Since T1 is where all new players jump in, it behooves the game company to do something to avoid making these first several battles needlessly frustrating. We don’t want to chase away prospective players.
Guys lets shift down a gear. BTT
This Discussion is only for T1 and T2, all other things like Modules, Skills and Player experience that a “new” Player hasnt must be counted out.
And so far the general Issue looks like a rather skill based one. It is easy do dodge incomming Disi when playing attention to the Laserbeam in front of you or getting a Torp Inc warning. But new Players do not have this experience. Therefore we need to nerf T1 Disi and Torp a bit. The Power they now have is to much compared to what a Ship can take.
T1 Inters are most likely 2 Shot on that Range by Disi.
Torp will do a 1 Hit. Empire can take 1 but in a combat situation they are also 1 hit…
To bring Disi and Torp in a better shape, it would be enough to reduce the Basic Stats, but scale it up with better bonuses in higher Tiers. This way we would also make them more usefull in T3 and T4, while giving T1 and T2 the chance to collect experience, without beeing gimped that much.
Guys lets shift down a gear. BTT
This Discussion is only for T1 and T2, all other things like Modules, Skills and Player experience that a “new” Player hast must be counted out.
And so far the general Issue looks like a rather skill based one. It is easy do dodge incomming Disi when playing attention to the Laserbeam in front of you or getting a Torp Inc warning. But new Players do not have this experience. Therefore we need to nerf T1 Disi and Torp a bit. The Power they now have is to much compared to what a Ship can take.
T1 Inters are most likely 2 Shot on that Range by Disi.
Torp will do a 1 Hit. Empire can take 1 but in a combat situation they are also 1 hit…
To bring Disi and Torp in a better shape, it would be enough to reduce the Basic Stats, but scale it up with better bonuses in higher Tiers. This way we would also make them more usefull in T3 and T4, while giving T1 and T2 the chance to collect experience, without beeing gimped that much.
Mostly agreed. Although for those who didn’t quit during T1 and going into T2 matches, they should already learned how to mitigate damages from Disi and Torps. What we need is better in-game tips on various little things like leaching newbies what does a sniper beam signify, and how guided torps does aoe damage and can travel around obstacles.
Then won’t that simply push the problem to T2?
No, not at all.
The reduced Base on T1 will still have impact on T2. Scaling will pull off in T3 and T4 granting them the same or even better Stats than now.
Lets say we tune T1 down by 15% and T2 by 8%. T3 will be scald up by 8% and T4 by even 15%.
Only as an example.
when more than 3 frig playing snipe, you know you gonna have a bad day…
i jump on top one of them and other didn’t realize i was there but it took me quite of time to took one down so yes…the other frig still ruin my team apart.
reduce their damage or make them glass cannon, for now they have such a damn high hull point and that’s hard to take it down, i try all 3 type of weapons, only EM that can nick their hp off, kinetic too slow and their shield recharge to soak it up before it went to hull.
still, we need to wait until we see new update, nerf them down might piss those players off too but who care about them? they ruin other player experience anyway…
Whine like a diaper baby…
T1 I play the Harpy. My wife plays the Lynx-M. I’ve talked to her about this since we come at this problem from two very different angles, and I think I see one of the best fixes for this situation.
Add another tutorial mission about snipers and dodging.
Part of the reason I say this is that I jumped into the game first. I watched a YouTube video on the game, then got my feet wet. I then proceeded to explain to my wife all the different attacks she was seeing on the screen (not to mention that you have to click on loot to get it). With that plus her own experience, she feels that Snipers can be avoided by just moving around when you see the red beam. She just got her first T2 ship today, and so we’re moving on to that now.
As a Sniper, I can tell you that if someone is going in crazy patterns, I’ll most likely give up on sniping them and look for an easier target (unless they have the EMP bomb or are taking my Beacon), because at best I have a 2/5 chance of hitting them. I also can do next to nothing against a fighter up close to me, even with Mk III weapons. My ship is simply too slow to keep them in sight. I have a 1/5 chance of killing them. This assumes that they actually try to come my way in the first place, which several people have mentioned has very little to do with the mission objectives (unless it’s Recon).
For those of you who don’t believe that teaching via tutorial is the best option, or insist on nerfing the power of Snipers, then please consent to buffing their speed.
Without the ability to eliminate enemies from afar, the Frigates are forced to come in close and become targets. Whenever I try to get close to the fight, I frequently get locked on by three or so fighters. They proceed to dance around me, shooting me to death while I struggle to turn enough to keep my lasers on even one of them. What tactics are available to me? I can’t run and hide, and I can’t cloak. I must rely on teammates to kill my attackers or accept my imminent demise.
Another possibility to fix the issue is to add more cover in T1 maps. I’m slightly surprised at how dense the cover is in T2 compared to T1, and I think that the extra cover does a lot to negate the sniper.
T1 I play the Harpy. My wife plays the Lynx-M. I’ve talked to her about this since we come at this problem from two very different angles, and I think I see one of the best fixes for this situation.
Add another tutorial mission about snipers and dodging.
Part of the reason I say this is that I jumped into the game first. I watched a YouTube video on the game, then got my feet wet. I then proceeded to explain to my wife all the different attacks she was seeing on the screen (not to mention that you have to click on loot to get it). With that plus her own experience, she feels that Snipers can be avoided by just moving around when you see the red beam. She just got her first T2 ship today, and so we’re moving on to that now.
As a Sniper, I can tell you that if someone is going in crazy patterns, I’ll most likely give up on sniping them and look for an easier target (unless they have the EMP bomb or are taking my Beacon), because at best I have a 2/5 chance of hitting them. I also can do next to nothing against a fighter up close to me, even with Mk III weapons. My ship is simply too slow to keep them in sight. I have a 1/5 chance of killing them. This assumes that they actually try to come my way in the first place, which several people have mentioned has very little to do with the mission objectives (unless it’s Recon).
For those of you who don’t believe that teaching via tutorial is the best option, or insist on nerfing the power of Snipers, then please consent to buffing their speed, having them
Without the ability to eliminate enemies from afar, the Frigates are forced to come in close and become targets. Whenever I try to get close to the fight, I frequently get locked on by three or so fighters. They proceed to dance around me, shooting me to death while I struggle to turn enough to keep my lasers on even one of them. What tactics are available to me? I can’t run and hide, and I can’t cloak. I must rely on teammates to kill my attackers or accept my imminent demise.
Another possibility to fix the issue is to add more cover in T1 maps. I’m slightly surprised at how dense the cover is in T2 compared to T1, and I think that the extra cover does a lot to negate the sniper.
Eh the abilities need to feel fun to use and not unfun to be hit by. I’ve yet to figure out a good way to manuever out of the Disentigrator shots. But shooting it is really easy because no one can manuver that effectively especially in open space. T2 is a bit better between resists to thermal now available and much more crowded maps, but approaching a good clump of frigates is never safe. Obviously a single ship shouldn’t be able to take out an entire group of snipers, but the time it takes to break down a nest compared to what it takes to bring it back up. And they can watch most points from a safe distance that no fighter would safely pass given other players in the match.
I for one would like to have frigates be part of the fight with the rest of the group. Not so much that it devolves into frigate battles, but make it so it’s not such an investment to have to dive past the fight just to tie up the long range frigates.
Asterisk, if you played the old X-Wing series, the Wotan Weave works quite well to dodge the shots, move your cursor to the edge of the screen and run it in a circle along the border at full afterburner. That usually does the trick.
Im not shure if anyone ever tried a Combat Frig in long term. I did it and it is fun to do, well you rely on your teammates but if you roll in with some support as well as additional damage, you can break through a defense with ease.
Of corse I will die, but for me it counts what I can do untill that.
Btt
Now what are we gonna do about this problem???
Leave it as it is, or do something?
And so far the general Issue looks like a rather skill based one. It is easy do dodge incomming Disi when playing attention to the Laserbeam in front of you or getting a Torp Inc warning. But new Players do not have this experience. Therefore we need to nerf T1 Disi and Torp a bit. The Power they now have is to much compared to what a Ship can take.
wait what? xD hahaha so let me repeat this:
“all it take is a bit of skill and then you can easily avoid X, but becouse people are completely skilless and then COMPLAIN ENOUGH!! we have to nerf this which is already UP like crazy once people get the slightest rl skill”…
… .
seriously am i the only one hearing this and sitting with a big “wait what?!” xD haha
in all seriousness i have come (so have others) with quite a few good suggestion which would fix the late game up and the early game “people suck too much to notice some one is aiming at them for 9 second streight and hitting them time and time again” issue, if the designer is still going with the “lets just overnerf it” then i am sad to say but he/she shouldn’t be allowed to be in a job where he/she need to be innovating and design working concepts -.-
there is SOOO many methods to fix both and just a direct early tier nerf is just terrible, the ability suck enough as it is, nerfing it further even if only in t1 would be very bad in my oppinion…
Im not shure if anyone ever tried a Combat Frig in long term. I did it and it is fun to do, well you rely on your teammates but if you roll in with some support as well as additional damage, you can break through a defense with ease.
Of corse I will die, but for me it counts what I can do untill that.
Btt
Now what are we gonna do about this problem???
Leave it as it is, or do something?
combat frig? i am not quite sure what you mean, you mean going in like if you where flying a fighter?..
well in t3 and to some extend in t2, you kinda forced too and trust me it is not good for you, you are 100% relying on your team to cover you and everything you do you would have done much better in a fighter… the only good thing is that you support aura’s but lets be serious for a second "how fun is it to just sit there and know you give aura’s but you got no idea when/if they are actually doing a difference and you got no control over them at all… you are basicly just a “buff bot” "…
what we gonna do?! well there have been sooo many good (and bad(bad once generally be the "remove it, remove frigates, make then instant kill, just nerf it etc)) suggestions, and several of them would work, there is nothing more we can do, make good well thoughtout suggestions and hope there is a dev with enough brain to look them over, test them and find the once which he can either use the ideas from or use the best for the design it is in for ALL tiers. (since at t3+ the abilities are freakisly bad… and t1 they seem to make people cry alot.)
Eh the abilities need to feel fun to use and not unfun to be hit by. I’ve yet to figure out a good way to manuever out of the Disentigrator shots. But shooting it is really easy because no one can manuver that effectively especially in open space.
even in a frigate i find myself dodging 25-50% of the disint shots and i never get killed by either disint nor torp (they might do the last hit in by luck, but its never their win when it happens, its always some one else no matter which ship i am flying.)
the fun thing i completely agree with, the one i came up with which wouldnt require too much and which i think would add the most fun factor to the user and the least “fck this is xxxx” feel for the resciever is here:
http://forum.gaijinent.com/index.php?/topic/18218-idea%E2%80%99s-to-disint-ability/
I feel like if frigates are suppose to be good area deniers they should have to be engageable in the area they’re denying. And since my friends are all giant robo fans, we think Jerichos should be Macross missle boats and Empires should be wave beam cannons. And drones should be Gundam bits.
I think the devs should watch some anime.
Bump