Federation frigate rework

Suggestions Balance
1

It seems to me that the Federation frigate is the only one really designed for close-up brawling, what with its drones. Flying one with rapid-fire plasma yields truly scary DPS versus anything within 2000 meters. There are several problems I see with it, though, and since the game is in beta, providing suggestions to fix them seems to be a good idea. Some of these apply to all frigates, not just Federation.

 

Frigate drones should have very high Thermal damage resistance. The reason I specify Thermal is because that’s what guided torpedoes do. I’m fine with missiles killing my drones, because I know that missiles will eventually stop coming when the pilot runs out, and I’m fine with guns killing my drones, because that takes aim. The torpedoes are a different matter though, as they’re not ammo-dependent and require no aim at all since drones only have 100 health. Two relatively unskilled torpedo pilots can keep me out of drones for an entire match, even though the torps themselves aren’t a threat to my tank.

 

Pulsars should have different damage types.  Unpredictability is the key to victory in most cases. If an interceptor wants to kill a frigate, he can be almost absolutely sure that the frigate’s main guns won’t be able to hit him very well. And that’s fine, frigates are big, slow ships that should have a glaring weakness. The pilot’s way of covering for that weakness is the Pulsar module (T2+) and drones, in the case of Federation ships. Drones are a special and it’s okay for them to be predictable, but the Pulsar always deals Thermal damage. If a pilot wants to be immune to Pulsars, he fits his ship so that it has a very high Thermal resistance, and every frigate he encounters dies. If there were EM Pulsars, Thermal Pulsars, and Kinetic Pulsars, it would give frigates more options and unpredictability on the field.

 

Federation frigates should have more health than Empire fighters.  If you look at the ship tree, you’ll notice that a stock Empire Phobos Aura has more shield, more hull, higher resists, better turning rate and top speed, and is just better at being a ship in general, than a stock Federation Alligator Mk. II. (If you’d like to check that, those two ships are at Reputation rank 5) I know that the Federation’s specialty is speed, not tank, but it seems to me that frigates, regardless of race, should have more health than fighters. I’m not sure if a buff to the frigate or a nerf to the fighter is in order, but the balance between those two ships looks askew.

 

Frigate role bonuses should be useful.  A 20% reduction in energy consumption pales in comparison to some of the bonuses offered to other roles. Frigates should have incentive to actually USE the modules in their role group. A range or effectiveness bonus would sweeten the pot enough to make Support frigates support, Protection frigates protect, and Engineering frigates engineer.

 

Take these with a grain of salt, as I fly almost exclusively Federation ships, but for most of these, I’d be just as happy with an explanation of why it’s better the way it is.

2

Pulsars should have different damage types.  Unpredictability is the key to victory in most cases. If an interceptor wants to kill a frigate, he can be almost absolutely sure that the frigate’s main guns won’t be able to hit him very well. And that’s fine, frigates are big, slow ships that should have a glaring weakness. The pilot’s way of covering for that weakness is the Pulsar module (T2+) and drones, in the case of Federation ships. Drones are a special and it’s okay for them to be predictable, but the Pulsar always deals Thermal damage. If a pilot wants to be immune to Pulsars, he fits his ship so that it has a very high Thermal resistance, and every frigate he encounters dies. If there were EM Pulsars, Thermal Pulsars, and Kinetic Pulsars, it would give frigates more options and unpredictability on the field.

 

I think it’s generally a good thing that you can itemize against certain types of weapons. Otherwise, there’s not all that much benefit to the type-specific resistance modules since it’s a crapshoot as to whether or not It’ll be useful.

 

Otherwise, I generally agree

3

"Pulsars should have different damage types.  Unpredictability is the key to victory in most cases. If an interceptor wants to kill a frigate, he can be almost absolutely sure that the frigate’s main guns won’t be able to hit him very well. And that’s fine, frigates are big, slow ships that should have a glaring weakness. The pilot’s way of covering for that weakness is the Pulsar module (T2+) and drones, in the case of Federation ships. Drones are a special and it’s okay for them to be predictable, but the Pulsar always deals Thermal damage. If a pilot wants to be immune to Pulsars, he fits his ship so that it has a very high Thermal resistance, and every frigate he encounters dies. If there were EM Pulsars, Thermal Pulsars, and Kinetic Pulsars, it would give frigates more options and unpredictability on the field."      

 

Dont forget " pulsar dont hit you behind a cover". Seriulys, pulsar is hard enugh to deal having only thermal damage, now multi damage…

4

I think the drones dying issue could be solved easily like they did it in WoW: Drones take 90% less damage from AOE or something.

 

Not sure if above poster was serious but Pulsar DOES hit you through anything as long as you are in the range.

5

Federation frigates should have more health than Empire fighters.  If you look at the ship tree, you’ll notice that a stock Empire Phobos Aura has more shield, more hull, higher resists, better turning rate and top speed, and is just better at being a ship in general, than a stock Federation Alligator Mk. II. (If you’d like to check that, those two ships are at Reputation rank 5) I know that the Federation’s specialty is speed, not tank, but it seems to me that frigates, regardless of race, should have more health than fighters. I’m not sure if a buff to the frigate or a nerf to the fighter is in order, but the balance between those two ships looks askew.

 

Seconding this, at the very least. Empire Fighters like the Phobos and Deimos 2 are seriously pushing the kind of tank that Empire ships should have. I don’t have major issues with the Hydra being so hard to kill, it is after all, a frigate. 

 

But the fighters have the same tank as the frigates of Jericho and Federation, it’s insane. With the right equipment a T2 Deimos 2 is not only matching my shield-tanked Jericho frigate in effective hitpoints, it’s also out-damaging it.

 

I am not normally in favour of nerfing something - I generally prefer that the counter be buffed instead, but in this situation, the empire fighters go several steps beyond what should be reasonable for their weight class. These fighters need to be toned down and brought back in line with other fighters, rather than being pocket-frigates that can win any engagement they find themselves in by sitting still, tanking damage and acting like a turret.

 

There is a serious issue when there are players who literally do this. They don’t bother flying around in their Deimos 2’s or Phobos’s, they roll to a stop, tank all the incoming damage they receive and spin around shooting an enemy fighter to death, because it’s faster than dogfighting and they have the tank of a frigate, so they can stand still like a frigate.

 

Also, 66% increase to rate of fire, plus the multiple damage bonuses, means that a Deimos 2 in overdrive out-damages a frigate.

 

Please for the love of god bring the empire fighters under control, they’re already beginning to dominate PVP. Everyone knows they’re OP - look at what the top corps are starting to regularly fly. I’m coming across teams of 4+ Deimos 2’s now. They just faceroll everyone.

6

My problem is the pulsar hiting you through anything as long as you are in the range, is dificult enough t leave the pulsar range, and we cant take the nearest cover to easy the situation because the pulsar pass through obstacles :smoke:

7

And please for the love of god bring the empire fighters under control, they’re already beginning to dominate PVP. Everyone knows they’re OP - look at what the top corps are starting to regularly fly. I’m coming across teams of 4+ Deimos 2’s now. They just faceroll everyone.

 

A jericho fighter have hight shield and low hull, federation have moderate shield/hull, and empire fighter have hight shield/hull

8

Thanks for the support on this guys, I hoped it wasn’t just me. I wouldn’t mind at all if the Pulsar stopped being able to hit through walls, personally I’ve been killed dozens of times by a ship I couldn’t hit. 

 

Also, I’m not sure if I was clear in my first post, I’m not talking about Pulsars that do EM, Kin, AND Therm, I’m talking an OR situation. Almost all the other damage-dealers in the game (Missiles/Rockets, primaries above T1) have damage modulation, and as an EVE player, I like choices, and itemizing against a damage type hoping your opponent will deal it is what EVE is all about. Just a thought, that was the least important thing on the list there.

9

Also, I’m not sure if I was clear in my first post, I’m not talking about Pulsars that do EM, Kin, AND Therm, I’m talking an OR situation. Almost all the other damage-dealers in the game (Missiles/Rockets, primaries above T1) have damage modulation, and as an EVE player, I like choices, and itemizing against a damage type hoping your opponent will deal it is what EVE is all about. Just a thought, that was the least important thing on the list there.

To use your EVE example, you can pretty damn well guess what damage types your opponents are going to deal and what they’re going to be vulnerable to. 

 

If a pulsar could change its damage type as easily as other weapons, then you cannot predict this. It’s pure guesswork and luck-based mechanics are bad.

 

I think it’s perfectly reasonable that interceptors can choose to tank themselves against pulsars at the cost of being vulnerable to other things

10

I think it’s perfectly reasonable that interceptors can choose to tank themselves against pulsars at the cost of being vulnerable to other things

 

That’s true, and the number of inties I come across that are therm-tanked is fairly low. I just feel like as the game grows and the number of options available to all pilots increases, that’s something they could think about. It’s fairly well balanced right now.

11

Pulsars should have different damage types.  Unpredictability is the key to victory in most cases. If an interceptor wants to kill a frigate, he can be almost absolutely sure that the frigate’s main guns won’t be able to hit him very well. And that’s fine, frigates are big, slow ships that should have a glaring weakness. The pilot’s way of covering for that weakness is the Pulsar module (T2+) and drones, in the case of Federation ships. Drones are a special and it’s okay for them to be predictable, but the Pulsar always deals Thermal damage. If a pilot wants to be immune to Pulsars, he fits his ship so that it has a very high Thermal resistance, and every frigate he encounters dies. If there were EM Pulsars, Thermal Pulsars, and Kinetic Pulsars, it would give frigates more options and unpredictability on the field.   

 

12

pulsars are fine as is they dont need “not through cover” other wise frigates would be AWEFULL in small maps. but the mulit damage is an AMAZING suggestion thumbs +

13

My problem is the pulsar hiting you through anything as long as you are in the range, is dificult enough t leave the pulsar range, and we cant take the nearest cover to easy the situation because the pulsar pass through obstacles :smoke:

 

if your in a int. pulsar is no issue to get out of. 2 seconds of flying and your out of its range. barly half shield. and if your fighter? you can tank it. if your frigate? you laugh at it. i think going through cover is a good feature as it prevents exploitation of frigates in small maps

 

 

as a int and frig pilot. pulsars do need multi damage its getting to common that the only way to kill an int is with mines and pulsar. cuz they all get therm. t3+ BUT even when i go against a pulsar they arn’t that big of deal i have more problems with mines than the pulsar. (but thats cuz mines dont show up on my screen half the time XD good old bugs)

14

I don’t mind an interceptor being able to tank the damage of a pulsar, but it should be something that comes with tradeoffs. The big issue I find, is that Thermal is the go-to resist for everything. Missiles deal thermal, mines deal thermal, pulsar deals thermal, lasers deal thermal, railguns can deal thermal, snipers deal thermal, guided missiles deal thermal. Every ability and area of effect weapon seems to deal thermal damage.

 

So what a surprise when fighters and interceptors tank thermal and laugh at everything a frigate can throw at them.

 

If the only change made where to allow different damage types, I think it would solve the issue completely.

 

You could even change up the way the pulsar looks for each damage type so it’s obvious what kind someone has:

 

Thermal - what it is now

Kinetic - Little bomblets fly out from the frigate and explode

EM - lightning arcs from the frigate

 

For that matter, I’d love to have something similar for my guided missile on my jerry frigate. Doing EM damage or Kinetic instead of Thermal would more or less solve the low DPS / burst damage of the missile itself.

15

I agree. I think the game should eventually add EM and Kinetic mines, missiles, etc. so people can’t just be confident that they can tank ALL missiles or ALL mines, or ALL pulsars for that matter.