Federation abilities a bit lacking?

Game Discussion Balance
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Ok, I see some complaints about the web. So to turn the question around, what is the web supposed to do?

 

DPS? Wrong, that is a bonus.

 

The Plasma Web is not a weapon or a gun as you would think it. It is a support piece of equipment designed to aid the Interceptor’s role in battle.

 

What do I mean?

 

Just this. You can’t capture beacons while taking damage.

 

The Plasma Web is not for destroying enemies, though it really is nice to get lots of “Space Spiders”, but to cripple the enemy’s ability to capture. Slap a web on an enemy interceptor you are in a tussle on a beacon with and he’s out of the running in the beacon capture race for that time, though he can shoot you to cripple your ability too. Web/Stasis almost garuntees that the beacon is yours in a 1v1 snatch.

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does it break stealth?

23

So I has doing great things today with the anti missile drones and anti missile mod on my frig pretty much the other team can’t fire missles around me.

 

I like the two drone types more and more I use them healing one for pve missile one for pvp.

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As someone who has worked on Weapons, Modules, Design concepts, and more; i will give you some input on the races.

 

In general empire has some resistance stats to high, For example they may have 100 or 120 base resistance (single type) On a ship.

No other races have defaults this high, so in general empire needs a nerf/adjustment.

 

Federation in my opinion lack in three area’s. First their ships are to squishy, to be close range front line support. Second, the like many races

last a universal technology concept, as such i feel all three classes should have cloaking based technologies. for example, the frigate gains an aoe cloak.

on top of these, I feel that cloaking should play a more dominate role in the game, as such i feel that more cloaking should be added (but taking the interceptor cloak buffing its duration to 15 seconds and making it usable on all ship sizes) But at the same time i feel cloaking for federation should be

buffed (but adding a 35% movement speed increased while cloaking; this will aid in the rule of hit and run tactics. any other changes to the cloaks will break it as agreed by most of the people working on the technology.). Lastly, at current their abilities are just to weak. Drones are great, and we all like the idea and potential they have, however i am adversely against it being something non-cloak related. On a last minute though, i would also like to see some sort of mini-torpedo for fighters/ceptors to help make offensive hit and run more viable. Further, their hp/shields should be high resistance, but equal 50/50% Armor/shielding to tank either way.

 

 

Jericho in my opinion lack diversity from federation. I like the idea of them having a special technology, where they gain regenerative shielding (as opposed to federations high DR). this type of shielding will regenerate faster, and is suited for heavy combat. out side of this, and the abilities being reworked i don’t see any major problems or needs for this race.

 

 

Weapons are another story. In general plasma is the most balance, and rails the least. It has some to the point that i feel barrel and projectile speed are vastly killing heavier weapons. i would like to find a way to make interceptors a bit more stable so that weapons can be done in a better way. I strongly feel that to many weapons are longer range then they need to be and i for see that their rates need to be something like

 

rapid 1.8-2.2

assault 2.2-2.6

heavy 2.6-3.0

long range- 4.0-4.4

 

the reason i feel this way is because sniping in general does not work as its perceived in counter strike etc. each such similar mechanic

has proven to be a challenge, and i think (for this game at least) its against their spirit of the game. because of this reason, i am interested

to see weapons gain a secondary effect (as suggested to the devs) and i want them to have optimal ranges that exceed others, so that sniping

in this game becomes simply a longer range weapon that has an accumulation effect (more damage builds over time). i think this will make

the weapons deadly. next, i feel that barrel rolls (how fast your guns turn ie, how fast your circle moves) should depend in the ship and  race.

Lastly, i would apply the following ranges

 

min weapons optimal 1.750

max weapons optimal 6.500

 

This is so that weapons wont break 

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In general empire has some resistance stats to high, For example they may have 100 or 120 base resistance (single type) On a ship.

No other races have defaults this high, so in general empire needs a nerf/adjustment.

I’m just a no.ob, but where do you see 100-120 res on any ship, by default?

 

"Lastly, at current their abilities are just to weak. "

So you say when i fly into 3-4 enemies kill one of them, get away alive because the cloak (fighter ship) is a weak ability?

 

“Further, their hp/shields should be high resistance, but equal 50/50% Armor/shielding to tank either way.”

HELL NO! If you are with a fed ship you DON’T TANK, you DODGE everything. Even our friggs are as fast as an empire fighter.

 

“Jericho in my opinion lack diversity from federation”

Now they can tank with their shields / cocoons / damage type resist things.

 

" It has some to the point that i feel barrel and projectile speed are vastly killing heavier weapons"

absolutely agree with this, i threw out my heavy plasma because it’s useless without the proj speed module, with the nerfed barrel speed, and the effd up overcharge (if i hold down a little bit longer the mouse button i certainly miss the target thanks to the new overharge mecha.)

 

For weapons: Lasers have a big advantage against the other two because lasers don’t have projectile speed. As easy to hit with them in T1 as in T4, while with the other two it’s harder and harder thanks to the ship speed inc.

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HELL NO! If you are with a fed ship you DON’T TANK, you DODGE everything. Even our friggs are as fast as an empire fighter.

 

FYI the only “speed advantage” Federation has is if you’re flying in a straight line. Maneuvering speed on ALL other axes is the same between all nations, so a Empire or Jericho Frigate is just as maneuverable as the Federation Frigate, just a little slower going straight forward. 

 

And you can’t really dodge a bullet, but you can tank it. If anything, Fed ships should be even faster and more maneuverable if the devs want Fed to use speed as their tank.

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Which Federation Frigates  are as fast as fighters because all mine are as slow as hell? I just look at the frigs speeds they all with in 10-35ish m/s of each other.

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I’m just a no.ob, but where do you see 100-120 res on any ship, by default?

Compare resistance on ships, you will see in general empire is vastly higher.

 

"Lastly, at current their abilities are just to weak. "

So you say when i fly into 3-4 enemies kill one of them, get away alive because the cloak (fighter ship) is a weak ability?

Yes, Cloaking should not deactivate when hit with in the first 2-3 seconds of cloaking (simple fix). Cloaking at the moment is not playing a strong enough role on being “back of the line sneak attackers”

 

“Further, their hp/shields should be high resistance, but equal 50/50% Armor/shielding to tank either way.”

HELL NO! If you are with a fed ship you DON’T TANK, you DODGE everything. Even our friggs are as fast as an empire fighter.

Yes, it gives the federation a diversity from both races, and gives them the ability to tank either way by preference. 

 

“Jericho in my opinion lack diversity from federation”

Now they can tank with their shields / cocoons / damage type resist things.

Cocoons are only on interceptors, and i do not believe in their current design, i find it unstable and not balanced. Resistance on federation is weakest, after that jericho. Empire hold the strongest resistance in game as of current, there for are the most balanced.

 

" It has some to the point that i feel barrel and projectile speed are vastly killing heavier weapons"

absolutely agree with this, i threw out my heavy plasma because it’s useless without the proj speed module, with the nerfed barrel speed, and the effd up overcharge (if i hold down a little bit longer the mouse button i certainly miss the target thanks to the new overharge mecha.)

this is \topic of debate between the three of us doing weapons calculations.

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Wish Plasma Web was a dot/snare over the dot/-healing

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FYI the only “speed advantage” Federation has is if you’re flying in a straight line. Maneuvering speed on ALL other axes is the same between all nations, so a Empire or Jericho Frigate is just as maneuverable as the Federation Frigate, just a little slower going straight forward. 

 

And you can’t really dodge a bullet, but you can tank it. If anything, Fed ships should be even faster and more maneuverable if the devs want Fed to use speed as their tank.

This. 

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I know, rite? The Federation ships are so shafted statwise (like 70% of HP of other 2 factions) it’s getting on my nerves and I’m starting to fly other 2 factions if I actually want to last more than a couple of seconds in combat.

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FYI the only “speed advantage” Federation has is if you’re flying in a straight line. Maneuvering speed on ALL other axes is the same between all nations, so a Empire or Jericho Frigate is just as maneuverable as the Federation Frigate, just a little slower going straight forward. 

 

And you can’t really dodge a bullet, but you can tank it. If anything, Fed ships should be even faster and more maneuverable if the devs want Fed to use speed as their tank.

 

 

This. 

^^ Double this!

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FYI the only “speed advantage” Federation has is if you’re flying in a straight line.

 

More speed, further will be the cross-hairs from your ship. Try out the expert camera mode and use your mouse to make hard to hit you.

The only thing that you need to “tank” is the laser.

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:confused: the only thing that can save me is by circling a pillar like a giant brick rotating it (does not work when the intercepors/fighters are pro)

35

Plasma web is a great ability in its current state! From t4 federal interceptor pilot’s perspective. I can’t understand why people thinks that it is weak… Stealth is excellent ability too. About drones - yes, we have a problem here!

 

May be you are forgot to equip your main weapon? Main weapon quality has effect on each damaging ship abilities. Web with exp>web with mk3>web with mk2>web with mk1>web with mk0(without weapon)

36

Felt the need to hop back in here, as while most folks are making some fantastic suggestions, I’m seeing a lot of erroneous fluff working its way in also, with people failing to read previous posts, such as;

 

Compare resistance on ships, you will see in general empire is vastly higher.

 

Thus! Back to Hard Evidence Time, with Uncle Pezz!

I am in agreement with folks here, at least in the field of Fed Frigate Drones, I feel they need a health buff personally. The cloak I’m fine with, it does what it says on the tin, and it does it well, and with regards to the Web, at first I thought it could use a buff, but folks have come in with some really good points regarding its actual use, this one caught my eye:

 

The Plasma Web is not for destroying enemies, though it really is nice to get lots of “Space Spiders”, but to cripple the enemy’s ability to capture. Slap a web on an enemy interceptor you are in a tussle on a beacon with and he’s out of the running in the beacon capture race for that time, though he can shoot you to cripple your ability too. Web/Stasis almost garuntees that the beacon is yours in a 1v1 snatch.

 

My two-cents in this conversation regards actual stats, rather than abilities as such. As you may have seen in my previous post, I discussed how Federation ships, specifically T2 non-subfaction fighters, in respects to certain areas of stats, are mildly underpowered compared to their counterparts in the other two factions. So here, I decided it would be worth doing a full analysis of the two ship types I hadn’t covered, Frigates and Interceptors, for the benefit of people making informed contributions. These stats are taken at T2 (to compare with the previous example), without any Synergy, Implant or Module bonuses.

[Frigates]

[Empire Hydra]
Hull = 10320, Shield = 6585
Resistances (Kinetic / EM / Thermal): Hull = -15 / 45 / 15, Shield = 30 / -30 / 0
Energy: Max = 675, Regen = 130.8 En/sec
Speed: Max Standard = 116, Afterburner = 203, AB En-Cost = 146 En/sec

 

[Jericho Templar]
Hull = 4585, Shield = 11525
Resistances (Kinetic / EM / Thermal): Hull = -15 / 45 / 15, Shield = 30 / -30 / 0
Energy: Max = 675, Regen = 130.8 En/sec
Speed: Max Standard = 123, Afterburner = 215.2, AB En-Cost = 146 En/sec

[Federation Alligator-C]
Hull = 6115, Shield = 6585
Resistances (Kinetic / EM / Thermal): Hull = -15 / 45 / 15, Shield = 30 / -30 / 0
Energy: Max = 745, Regen = 144.4 En/sec
Speed: Max Standard = 139.2, Afterburner = 243.6, AB En-Cost = 146 En/sec

[interceptors]

[Empire Dwarf]

Hull = 3175, Shield = 1970
Resistances (Kinetic / EM / Thermal): Hull = -15 / 45 / 15, Shield = 30 / -30 / 0
Energy: Max = 225, Regen = 43.6 En/sec
Speed: Max Standard = 190, Afterburner = 332.5, AB En-Cost = 54.4 En/sec

[Jericho Stiletto]
Hull = 1460, Shield = 3575 (NOTE 1)
Resistances (Kinetic / EM / Thermal): Hull = -15 / 45 / 15, Shield = 30 / -30 / 0
Energy: Max = 235, Regen = 45.5 En/sec
Speed: Max Standard = 201.4, Afterburner = 352.4, AB En-Cost = 56.5 En/sec

[Federation Hawk]
Hull = 1880, Shield = 1970
Resistances (Kinetic / EM / Thermal): Hull = -15 / 45 / 15, Shield = 30 / -30 / 0
Energy: Max = 250, Regen = 48.5 En/sec
Speed: Max Standard = 228, Afterburner = 399, AB En-Cost = 54.4 En/sec

(NOTE 1) The Stiletto actually gains a mild increase in shield regen here, being 85.1 Shield/Sec over the other two, who have 82.2.

As with before, other stats are identical across the board (Strafe etc.)

[Mid-Grounds] (Hull/Shield)

Again, the equations used are:
Hull = ((Empire.Hull - Jericho.Hull) / 2) + Jericho.Hull, and
Shield = ((Jericho.Shield - Empire.Shield) / 2) + Empire.Shield.
To save a little space, I’ve applied the 20% Mark-Down already.

[Frigates]
Hull = 5962, Shield = 7244

[interceptors]
Hull = 1854, Shield = 2218

So yet again, folks, we can see Feds have significant penalties to Shield Strength in all ship types, when resistances to damage types are identical. If I’m to be entirely honest, it feels a little like their assignment of shield values was a little arbitrary. Also yet again, I feel that the increase in *Straight-Line* speed does not make up for this, given my previous argument regarding lasers, how said weapons negate that speed boost entirely, coupled with the fact that you don’t have to be of a specific faction to use these lasers, giving the Empire and Jericho a clear reason to just outright say: “We’re better than Feds”. Hope the extra info helps, thanks again to folks that actually read this ;D

Edit: Yet again, I forget things, wrong values assigned to Energy values and Speed on the Alligator-C. Corrected.

37

As I said before, anyone saying Federation ships are balanced with the other 2 factions is lying through his/her teeth or is completely oblivious to the meta.

 

Also anyone saying the Fed speed advantage is in balance with Empire Armor or Jericho Shields is doing the same. Whoopteedo, yeah I’ll take 10% more speed over 20% more tank, right. Especially in a game where weapon ranges aren’t measured in kilometers and there isn’t a single movement inhibiting module, yeah…

 

Feds are gimped as xxxx. I’d say it’s not actually their abilities that suck (except the drones, which are about as useless in PvP as a paper t-shirt in a bear fight) it’s their utter lack of survivability that turns them into one trick ponies that need an element of surprise or zerging to be as combat effective as the other 2 nobrainer factions which can just duke it out, survive and trollololol away from your burning wreck.

 

I kinda see what the devs wanted with Federation, but they’re still far off.

 

If they want Federation to speedtank, all 3 ships need to be even faster and better maneuverable, to the level where the Fed Frigate is just a bit slower than the other 2 factions Fighters, if Fed armor/shield/special mod stats remain as they are.

38

im now in late game t3 my max speed is 324(not trying to even increase speed just passive skills/bonuses that i have to put in)

:D…i am now an uncatchable frigate right… but i turn like bricks still :smiley:

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im now in late game t3 my max speed is 324(not trying to even increase speed just passive skills/bonuses that i have to put in)

:D…i am now an uncatchable frigate right… but i turn like bricks still :smiley:

powerslide that fat xxxx :stuck_out_tongue:

 

I still think plasma web would be perfect with a snare tie to it.

40

Well guys, also chiming in here. While the federation frig stat values might be slightly sub-par, maybe balance that through passives?

 

I personally find all the passives lacking and up to tier 3 an “engineer” frigate can launch a warpgate cheaper, which is about as useful as a swimming pool module. (not the gate, the reduced energy cost). Maybe add something like +50% protection module range or +20% protection module effect to all fed frigates.

 

The drones are quite useful actually, but they die fast. Instead of crying maybe just double/triple their health. What i also thought of, would be nice if the healing drones auto-heal friendly units in range too. (which could open module slots for other stuff). I personally find it quite sad, when my ion rocket gets shot down by a drone, and doesn’t freeze the frig for 2 seconds, which I desperately needed.

 

Edit: The main problem I see with the Fed frigate is the choice of builds. While Jericho stacks shield upgrades and Alliance hull, as fed pilot you are in the midst and can’t really focus, so either ignore one side totally or do both half-assed. Thats why imho feds should get higher resist base values. 

 

Just my 2 cents